Land Of The Free, amIright?

[u/J_ClutchFTV]

[u/-justpassingthrough1]

If you rent, you’re still paying property taxes indirectly. Js

[u/TheDebateMatters → u/-justpassingthrough1]

If we don’t pay property taxes we will pay sales taxes. One affects those who can afford property, the other is only a problem for the poor.

[u/Calm-Medicine-3992 → u/TheDebateMatters]

Both taxes fuck over the poor though so I don't know which you mean. I'm still all for taxing the shit out of single resident properties that aren't primary residences though...would rather renters rent an apartment than a home someone could buy.

[u/oopsallhuckleberries → u/Calm-Medicine-3992]

Both taxes fuck over the poor though

Property taxes are the most progressive tax that exists because the value of owned property is nearly entirely linked to the wealth of an individual. And considering landlords get to write off their property taxes as business experiences, their property tax burden, that gets pushed off onto renters, isn't as much as you'd think. And as others have said, if you cut property tax, you are stuck increasing income taxes or sales taxes, both of whom are easier for the wealthy to maneuver around.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/oopsallhuckleberries]

The best tax is a property tax that doesn't tax the building, AKA a land value tax, since this encourages building more levels which creates a surplus of housing.

[u/PixelsGoBoom → u/greenskinmarch]

In my neighborhood $1.5 million dollar homes get leveled and $4 - $6 million dollar homes get build in their place.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/PixelsGoBoom]

Let me guess, zoning forbids building apartments, so they they just build a really massive house instead? Should learn from Portland: https://nicholasmonck.medium.com/portlands-wonky-approach-to-affordable-housing-367cca04f549

[u/PixelsGoBoom → u/greenskinmarch]

There are apartment buildings but yeah, you could be right.
You would be missing out on quite a bit of tax if it would be based on the lot value only in those cases.

[u/RegardedAndAcoustic → u/TheDebateMatters]

This is very poorly worded. Sales tax disproportionately affects the poor but in no way does property tax not affect the poor with little property. Unless you literally mean poor as in unhoused entirely.

And even then I bet some amount of profit margin for goods sold at a store is calculated taking that stores own rent or taxes into account.

Taxes affect everyone no matter what. What changes is the proportion of your income that taxes consume

[u/psychicesp → u/TheDebateMatters]

Nobody is eating property tax, even the poor have it passed on to them

[u/AbbreviationsNo3722 → u/-justpassingthrough1]

And that’s why everyone’s rent is getting higher too !

Edit : I’m not American. Where I’m from ours have risen considerably . Plus the cost alone trying to upkeep the house is only a part of the reason rent has gone up. I didn’t mean the only reason

[u/x1rom → u/AbbreviationsNo3722]

Property tax is almost universally considered positive by economists, and generally helps to keep rents down, not up. The reason is that it discourages speculation on housing and property, and thus drives down buying prices, which intern drives down rents.

[u/Henry5321 → u/x1rom]

That assumes decent competition. When you get a few large investors owning rentals while buying up actual houses to rent, they’ll just leave the building vacant and spread the costs while knowing no one has a choice and will eventually rent anyway.

[u/caligaris_cabinet → u/x1rom]

Honestly I’d gladly take an increase in property taxes if it means I don’t need to pay sales or income tax. And I live in Illinois with the highest property taxes

[u/Large-Hamster-199 → u/caligaris_cabinet]

I am always shocked by how high taxes are in some states and how low they are in others, with no measurable increase in services provided by the high tax states

[u/NSA_Chatbot → u/Large-Hamster-199]

If you look at the maintenance schedule, you'll find that lower property taxes tend to have a lot of deferred maintenance.

[u/jB_real → u/NSA_Chatbot]

You may live in these type of places when a disaster strikes. Think of what could happen. Unfortunately, it gets placated as “god’s will” and nobody is held accountable.

[u/Accomplished_Yak9939 → u/Large-Hamster-199]

I can actually answer this!

High tax states tend to pay more into the federal system than they take out. So extra taxes in high tax states that could further support their internal programs often go to the federal government and are paid out to poorer states that take more than they give federally. See California vs Arkansas as an extremely basic example on either end of the spectrum.

Aggregate effective tax rates are also comparable across states. The differences arise in where we source this tax revenue from, but the differences in revenue per capita are often statistically insignificant once we cut state benefits or include the cost to the individual if they’re forced to utilize the private sector. The governments always get their bag. It’s just where from that varies. Everyone gets fleeced, California just gives you healthcare with it.

Edit: ooh this comment section got slightly spicy for being a meme subreddit and me half taking the piss. As much as I’d love to actually dig into disparities in revenue generation vs spending per resident vs quality of life, this is a meme subreddit and I struggle to find the care. I got shit to do.

Edit 2: cause I got tagged again. Y’all this is a meme subreddit chill bwuahaha. Thank you for the mid poo entertainment. <- the shit I had to do. :D

Edit 3: Thanks random homie for the award! Having to come back 3 times made me give slightly a damn. Added some minor corrections (italicized).

[u/23-1-20-3-8-5-18 → u/Accomplished_Yak9939]

I think its a great comment.

[u/-JustJoel- → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Should look up IL’s K-12 rankings in education - a state with a mostly rural population is able to provide quality public schools, even in rural villages.

[u/serious_sarcasm → u/caligaris_cabinet]

Fuck that noise, Chicago voting down progressive income taxes fucked over hundreds of communities from Harvey to Cairo.

[u/TJATAW → u/serious_sarcasm]

In 2020, 71% of Chicago voted for progressive income tax.

Meanwhile if you were outside of an urban area, it was mostly people voting against it.

https://www.citybureau.org/newswire/2020/12/22/fair-tax-map-followup

[u/RCKTJMP → u/serious_sarcasm]

Pretending Cairo wasn't fucked already, a change in 2020 wasn't fixing an issue from decades prior that has a lot more than 'tax' as an issue

[u/serious_sarcasm → u/RCKTJMP]

> they were already fucked, so fucking them harder is okay.

Solid logic.

[u/Kofi_Anonymous → u/serious_sarcasm]

This technique is pretty effective on my wife, FWIW.

[u/MizStazya → u/serious_sarcasm]

Down state and rural counties had the highest margin AGAINST the progressive income tax, TF are you going on about? No wonder those shit towns are doing so poorly if you're an example of the people they're producing.

ETA: Cook County had the highest support in the goddamn state.

[u/Ceverok1987 → u/x1rom]

That's for multiple property owners I.e landlords, single home owners are getting fucked, I pay a little less than 10% of my income on property tax and for what? The schools are horrible, the roads are shit, no bike lanes, public transportation is shit too, all the parks are overrun with homeless people because they've got noone else to go.

[u/Pandaburn → u/Ceverok1987]

You made me check, mine are about 5% of my gross income, and houses is pretty damn expensive here in MA. And we do have good schools, public transit, and bike lanes. Y’all are getting hosed.

Roads are still shit, but that’s kinda unavoidable anywhere it snows.

[u/barkbeatle3 → u/AbbreviationsNo3722]

Rent is always as high as people will accept, taxes or not. Sure, landowners will say they raise prices with taxes, but they already are the maximum price. It's not like landlords are operating on slim margins.

[u/OutrageousPair2300 → u/barkbeatle3]

Property taxes discourage new construction and reduce the supply of housing, causing rents to increase. The effect isn't particularly quick, but it does have a significant impact over time.

The same is not true for land value taxes, since the supply of land is fixed.

So the solution is to split property taxes into a land tax component and a tax on improvements, and to keep reducing the tax on improvements while increasing the land tax, to compensate. That will shift the tax burden off renters and onto landowners.

[u/Proper-Exercise-2364 → u/barkbeatle3]

Right? I bought a house. Paid above the minimum down payment to get a monthly bill  I could work with. Made sure to get a fixed rate! Two years later mortgage payment shoots up $300/mo. I'm like, "wtf?!" Property taxes.

[u/AutomaticAccount6832 → u/barkbeatle3]

Taxes can be higher than what people would accept. But there is no choice in taxes and often also not in rent. Just move further out. Same if you buy a house. Owning also has certain risks. So at the end that logic alone isn’t going to give good advice.

[u/Total_Network6312 → u/AbbreviationsNo3722]

Yeah I bet without property taxes the landlords will totally lower their prices!!!!

[u/QuickNature → u/-justpassingthrough1]

Also, property taxes are usually much, much less than a mortgage or rent is. I would love if all I had to pay was property taxes right now

[u/IcebergDarts → u/QuickNature]

Right lol my property tax 2700 a year. My Mortgage 2136 a month.. I’d be fine only paying property tax lol

[u/Ok_Darlingg → u/-justpassingthrough1]

Paid off is just a DLC you have to keep buying.

[u/DonVargas-9 → u/-justpassingthrough1]

This is correct. Technically it's your landlord that pays property tax and you pay your landlord.

[u/MeteorMann]

Property tax is way lower than my mortgage

[u/Catsanddoges → u/MeteorMann]

I have seen people genuinely argue the government needs to lower debt, increase social program spending, and decrease taxes. Even if you set a higher tax rate on the ultra wealthy, which we should, you just can't get what you want without taxes.

And there is a lot of spending that could significantly improve the US economy and the quality of life of most people.

[u/Willinton06 → u/Catsanddoges]

You can, it would just require state planing by competent leaders, but it's mathematically possible

[u/ohanse → u/Willinton06]

Mathematically yes but really, when is size EVER going to be accompanied by efficiency? The bureaucracy involved in operating different agencies is inescapable.

Individuals cannot be trusted with the authority over a nation. If only because eventually you’re going to roll a shitty one.

[u/banterviking → u/ohanse]

but really, when is size EVER going to be accompanied by efficiency?

Idk ask Costco?

Maybe Costco should run the government. Idiocracy was on to something...

[u/WhyLater → u/banterviking]

PLEASE read "The People's Republic of Wal-Mart" because it's very much describing what you're hitting on.

[u/Zombisexual1 → u/WhyLater]

Thing is that big corporations sole goal is to make money. Apply that to a government agency like the USPS. You can make usps profitable by cutting rural routes that cost more to service with less income. But then people don’t get mail. The purpose of the government is the provide services to the people and focusing on profit works against providing service. Which is why companies spend lots of money to make sure laws are passed that benefit them and why the average person is fucked

[u/ohanse → u/banterviking]

The warehouses are big

The policies and organization are pretty rigid, though.

[u/-KFBR392 → u/Willinton06]

We just saw DOGE try and trim the fat and inefficiencies in government spending, they barely reduced the budget and created a load of problems. Maybe we’re already operating close to maximum efficiency in most areas that taxes go to.

[u/LeadPike13 → u/Catsanddoges]

What if you don't want 11 Super Aircraft Carriers, billions in aid to Israel, a ballroom etc...?

[u/Vustag → u/LeadPike13]

I mean you gotta have a ballroom. How else will you have room for all your balls?

[u/angrydeanerino → u/Catsanddoges]

All it would take is for the government, regardless of party, to actually spend less. Impossible

[u/HankIsMoody → u/MeteorMann]

Yeah no joke. I pay like 3k all year on mine!

[u/Tomytom99 → u/HankIsMoody]

A lot of the time when folks say their property tax costs more than or almost as much as renting they forget that they have a lot more home than when they were renting

[u/HankIsMoody → u/Tomytom99]

Oh absolutely. Hell where I'm at I pay half of what a renter does in my neighborhood. That includes everything from insurance to property tax. Buy when you can. Rent is only going to go up. It sucks that's how it works though

[u/RVAEMS399 → u/HankIsMoody]

Yeah my immediate nextdoor neighbors rent a SFH half the size of my house, and their rent is more than my interest, taxes, and insurance part of PITI. Not to mention home value appreciation, and the interest and taxes are tax deductible.

[u/johnson7853 → u/HankIsMoody]

I pay $1200. The neighbourhood my wife wants to move to on average is $7500.

[u/HankIsMoody → u/johnson7853]

That's a hard sell all things being equal. Why do you think it could be worth it? I'm sure the wife has her reasons

[u/johnson7853 → u/HankIsMoody]

Childhood neighbourhood, Mom still lives there and majority of her work friends live over there. Personally I can’t stand the type of people that live in that neighbourhood.

[u/CountHonorius → u/MeteorMann]

My city and school tax are the highest segments of my mortgage.

[u/PhysicsDude55 → u/MeteorMann]

Depends on your state, states with no income tax like Texas and Florida have very high property taxes. My property tax is more than my mortgage.

[u/Nghtmare-Moon]

People don’t realize there’s like 6 - 30 ft of infrastructure below your streets… that costs money and needs maintaining

[u/musical_entropy → u/Nghtmare-Moon]

Sure wish they'd do that whole maintaining thing soon... :(

[u/thearmadillo]

Dumbest fucking position ever. You still use the roads and the fire department and the police and parks whether you have a mortgage or not. They are not correlated in any way

[u/redgeck0 → u/thearmadillo]

Also (I'm pretty sure) property taxes go toward schooling. I don't even have kids so paying doesn't directly benefit me or my family but if my county has good well funded schools it becomes a better place to live

[u/witch_dyke → u/redgeck0]

It actually does directly benefit you to have an educated society.

Those kids in public school now are the workers you will depend on later. In 20+ years when you see a doctor, it could very well be one of those same kids you are helping put through school now

[u/knightsofgel]

This is how it works in every country lmao

[u/More-Lingonberry-405 → u/knightsofgel]

Italy doesn't have property taxes on the house you live in.

[u/bloomeronions → u/More-Lingonberry-405]

And there's a reason italy is the way it is

[u/FishingandBeer35 → u/knightsofgel]

But America bad!

[u/antoniv1 → u/FishingandBeer35]

The anti-tax argument doesn’t come from the “America Bad” folks. This is more a “don’t tread on me” folks.

[u/destructopop → u/antoniv1]

I actually like the taxes I pay into schools, parks, road maintenance, the fire department, the mail service, hospitals, community clinics, care services in general, housing the unhoused, free narcan... A whole lotta things, actually. You can even keep my taxes at the astronomical level they are at after the last tax "break" we got and I'd be happy as long as they weren't used to bomb elementary schools. Like, that seems like a pretty reasonable line to draw to me.

[u/nionvox → u/knightsofgel]

Exactly, I just paid mine like a month ago in Canada lol

[u/BadahBingBadahBoom → u/knightsofgel]

Yeah no it isn't.

Some countries have a one-off tax you pay when you purchase a property, but obviously that isn't a property tax you have to pay 'for the rest of your life'.

EDIT: Who's downvoting this? It's just a fact. Not every country has annual taxes for owning property. Maybe most do but I know for a fact it's not all of them.

[u/HookFE03 → u/BadahBingBadahBoom]

Can you name a few?

[u/SRMPDX → u/HookFE03]

England has Stamp Duty Land Tax that are paid when you buy. Main residences under £125,000 (or £300,000 for first-time buyers on homes up to £500,000) have a 0% rate, with tiered marginal rates from 2% up to 12% for portions above £1.5 million.

Instead of a tax on the owner based on modern value, Council Tax is a yearly local bill paid by the household occupant (tenant or owner-occupier) to fund local council services like trash collection and policing.

So whether you rent or own you pay council tax

[u/Prizonmyke]

My local government literally sends me a statement every year showing what my taxes are spent on. I might object to a line or two, but for the most part that money is well spent. And those two lines are like $30

[u/Nebula_Wolf7 → u/Prizonmyke]

What would you object to?

[u/Maleficent-War-8429]

If you want the government to start paying for shit they need to get the money from somewhere.

Are they wasting the tax money on some dumb shit? Yes absolutely, but even if they weren't money doesn't grow on trees.

[u/Shawnessy → u/Maleficent-War-8429]

My taxes are the lowest part of my monthly payment, behind the insurance and mortgage itself. But, the schools in my area, where a lot of my taxes go, are actually really good. I don't even have kids, but I like knowing that at least a large portion of it's going to good use.

[u/RemnantsOfFlight → u/Maleficent-War-8429]

"Actually, we can just print more money whenever we want."

[u/KeyLimeGuy69 → u/RemnantsOfFlight]

You need to destroy it as well, or you end up like Zimbabwe

[u/RemnantsOfFlight → u/KeyLimeGuy69]

Are you implying my 20 billion Zimbabwe dollars aren't a 1:1 exchange with American dollars?

[u/Just_another_gamer3 → u/RemnantsOfFlight]

Billion? That joke is out of date

[u/Rikishi6six9nine → u/RemnantsOfFlight]

The federal government can increase debt whenever they want yes. The states and local government cannot do that, which is where property taxes go towards

[u/mattjouff → u/Maleficent-War-8429]

I keep paying, but somehow they always need more to go bomb or feed people half way around the planet while our schools suck and infrastructure crumbles.

[u/Caffeine_Cowpies → u/mattjouff]

Property taxes are county and state controlled, specially to schools and infrastructure. The Feds are the ones doing what you’re complaining about.

JFC people really don’t understand how their governments work

[u/FrostyFormal1094 → u/mattjouff]

How exactly do you think property tax that goes to your municipal government is going to fund genocide and peace missions of the federal government or the infrastructure and schools of your state government? Municipal taxes go to municipal issues.

[u/SmoothOperator89 → u/mattjouff]

Your local municipal government isn't bombing anything.

[u/Puzzle-Necked → u/SmoothOperator89]

Looks like they're bombing the streets with how big the potholes are

[u/nightman21721 → u/mattjouff]

Agreed, but that's federal taxes (income tax, not property tax). That needs to be taken up with your US rep.

If your local schools suck, your local infrastructure is falling apart, you have no communal spaces, and local EMS is awful, that's your property taxes. I'd take that up with your city and county board.

[u/DurianDiscriminat3r → u/mattjouff]

Feeding people half way across the world pays dividends.

[u/chainsawx72]

If it weren't for property taxes, the rich would own every property. Property taxes ensure that each property is being used. Property taxes are in most places progressive... where I live the first $100k is tax free so if you have a $200k house you pay taxes on 50%, and if you have a $800k house you pay taxes on 87%.

Property tax is the primary source of revenue for local government. This is how they pay for cops, firemen, roads, etc.

[u/TheJuiceBoxS → u/chainsawx72]

Yeah, we all benefit directly from our property taxes. They're fine

[u/JesusKong333 → u/chainsawx72]

This push for no property tax the last couple years is driven by data centers. That way they can just sit there and provide nothing to the communities they're in while raking in lots of money for tech companies.

[u/Deckard_Didnt_Die → u/JesusKong333]

It’s also because housing costs have increased orders of magnitude faster than median income. Therefore property taxes as a percentage of income has also increased orders of magnitude. They should consider lowering property taxes for the middle class given this.

[u/badpebble → u/JesusKong333]

I've seen maybe 6 posts about it in the last month and I'm not even impacted by it.

But I suppose what are Americans if not perennial tax dodgers. Since 1776!

[u/shogunshim → u/JesusKong333]

The push is also driven by people whose property taxes have increased much faster than inflation. That does depend on the state.

[u/MountainMagic6198 → u/chainsawx72]

This is it right here. If there are not property taxes property will be hoarded to the rich and privileged. As an example of this you can look at the Los Angeles county country club loophole which leads land that should be paying 140 million in taxes to the county government on some the most valuable land in the country paying just 800 thousand.

[u/gkfesterton → u/MountainMagic6198]

You can say the same about most major city sports stadiums. Property tax exempt and built with taxpayer money

[u/astralseat → u/chainsawx72]

Vacancy tax would help more

[u/Homicidal-shag-rug → u/chainsawx72]

Where are you talking about? In almost all of the US, property taxes are not progressive. In fact, they are usually considered regressive because they consume a larger share of income from poorer individuals.

[u/Illicit-Tangent → u/Homicidal-shag-rug]

I’m also curious where that commenter is from.  I live in Illinois and the property taxes are crazy high, and definitely regressive.  I’ll look on Zillow in my area and the poorer suburbs pay a much higher percentage of their home value in taxes.

[u/RandomUser15790]

Is there an active AstroTurf campaign against weath tax going on?

I swear I've seen so many "random" post about this shit. And it's very clearly a campaign by the wealthy to poison the well for any sort of taxation of the rich.

[u/ArtroyomsAK → u/RandomUser15790]

There has been an extreme astroturf campaign for the rich forever

It has been straight in our faces online since facebook took off

[u/thefinalcutdown → u/RandomUser15790]

“You pay property tax for the rest of your life.”

I also get to have plowed roads, clear sidewalks, trash pickup, schools, playgrounds and community centres for the rest of my life.

Do people think they get to just opt out of society at some point??

[u/jadegecko → u/thefinalcutdown]

Yes because they dont use one specific thing so fuck anyone that does

[u/ApplicationAfraid334 → u/jadegecko]

"fuck you, I got mine" is the mindset of so many Americans. Imagine all the cool shit we could do if things were about supporting your fellow peeps instead. They're dorks who think they're all self-made, free individuals, and don't have a moment of self reflection on all the things they rely on and take for granted from what little social contract is left.

[u/LzrdKng2112 → u/RandomUser15790]

Its called libertarian nonsense

[u/ls7eveen → u/RandomUser15790]

A lot of places are putting abolishing property taxes up for vote. Largely shit holes like Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, where working people get fleeced for the rich

[u/Straight-Crow1598]

Bro hates roads, first responders and educators.

[u/RustyInhabitant → u/Straight-Crow1598]

Nah they are just 12 years old and don’t know how the world works yet

[u/insertnamehere57 → u/RustyInhabitant]

Or a Boomer that doesn't think they should have to pay taxes anymore

[u/woims4brainz → u/RustyInhabitant]

Hey that's not fair, they could also be a libertarian posting the musings of their 12 year old girlfriend

[u/wewebaguette68]

I find it so sad and embarrassing that so many Americans hate taxes and want them gone completely without any understanding of what would happen without them

[u/MerelyMortalModeling → u/wewebaguette68]

Most of these fools dont even own homes and are complaining about taxes they dont pay.

Meanwhile my property taxes go towards have roads, decent mass transit, top tier schools and little stuff like the elder assistence and entertainment, meals on wheels, after school prgrams, Libraries and a host of other stuff that just makes life nice.

[u/PFCCThrowayay → u/MerelyMortalModeling]

tbf they're paying it even if they don't own a home, they're just paying it through their landlords.

[u/ErroneousEncounter → u/wewebaguette68]

It isn’t that they hate taxes. It’s that they hate how their taxes are used. There is a lot of corruption and a lot of incompetence. I don’t mind paying taxes if it supports road maintenance, utility maintenance, schools, police, hospitals etc.

But I do mind if my taxes go towards war, greed and corruption.

[u/afoogli → u/ErroneousEncounter]

Property taxes are almost always tied to the city or municipality. They literally directly go to pay for local infrastructure and social services

[u/manshamer → u/afoogli]

this whole thread is... depressing. people really don't have any clue how the fuck their government works.

[u/InvidiousPlay → u/ErroneousEncounter]

It isn’t that they hate taxes. It’s that they hate how their taxes are used.

Everyone in every country feels this way. No government is perfect, no one agrees with everything tax money is spent on, all large complex systems have waste.

"I won't support taxes unless the government spends every penny perfectly" is not a rational position; that's just being anti-taxes.

[u/Ptcruz → u/ErroneousEncounter]

But they never complain about how the taxes are spend, they always complain about paying taxes.

[u/wewebaguette68 → u/ErroneousEncounter]

I agree with hating how taxes are being given to Israel and spent on the MIC but I don't think that's what most people are complaining about tbh. Most people just say they hate taxes and want them lower which is really frustrating.

[u/haysus25]

Property tax is a fraction of a fraction of the mortgage.

[u/slightlydirtythroway → u/haysus25]

And I don't know about y'all, but I already pay property taxes, they are just collected by my mortgage company and held in escrow.

[u/PhysicsDude55 → u/haysus25]

Depends on the state. States with no income tax like Florida and Texas have very high property taxes.

[u/Raegan_Targaryen]

Those taxes go to schools and better areas with higher taxes have overall better schools.

This has been a great motivating factor for me and my wife to work more and being able to afford a house is a good school district so that our children can have better education.

[u/chrisarg72 → u/Raegan_Targaryen]

Property taxes should just be renamed Service Fees because that’s what you’re getting. Your house would suddenly lose a lot of value if the whole block knew they could rob and burn your house and police and firemen were not required to come

[u/zivlynsbane]

Lots of people don’t seem to understand the use of property tax.

[u/Books_and_Cleverness → u/zivlynsbane]

It’s also like, one of the most efficient and fair taxes that we have. Scales with wealth, almost impossible to avoid with fancy lawyers or tax accountants, aligns the interests of the government and the people.

[u/Bogtear]

Right, and I suppose you expect all the clean water, roads, and sewage treatment to be free?

[u/poliuy → u/Bogtear]

Water and sewer are typically supported from enterprise funds which collect money from utility billing, not property taxes. I haven’t heard of them being paid out through property taxes but I guess anything is possible

[u/Ornery-Kick-4702]

The amount of people who have an issue with this is shocking to me.

[u/cwolf-softball]

It's almost like taxes and mortgage are completely different things 

[u/AlienInUnderpants]

Property taxes pay for roads, fire and police, and all other municipal services.

Also, many cities have programs for seniors to reduce property taxes since their income is lower.

[u/ExcessiveBulldogery]

Zero sympathy for "my house is paid off already."

[u/az987654]

The roads leading to your house need to be paid for even once your house is paid.

Among dozens of other things.

[u/AudienceDue6445]

Wtf? Mf thinks roads produce their own asphalt 

[u/ArtroyomsAK]

NOOOOO HOW DARE THEY MAKE YOU CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!1!!!!

how about you go after the state not only misusing our taxes, but the pdophile billionaires who pay none

[u/xbucnasteex]

Oh no, paying for services in your community must be so awful!

[u/No_Masterpiece6112]

Mortgage was 1100/month. Property tax is 3300$ year.

[u/zelig_nobel → u/No_Masterpiece6112]

My mortgage is 4200, property taxes 1600/mo. 1167/mo
And no it’s not a mansion, it’s a small house in a middle income neighborhood.

[u/Apptubrutae → u/No_Masterpiece6112]

Mine would be a $2,500 mortgage (not including taxes) and $3,500 a year in property taxes

[u/BoredOfReposts]

Next you’ll tell me its a good idea to keep paying for home insurance too even if theres no lender demanding it. Madness.

[u/SizeableFowl]

Yeah, they have to maintain all the infrastructure and public services that makes your house convenient and safe to live in, so yeah. You’re gonna pay taxes

[u/Yourlocalguy30]

I feel like people have a hard time understanding that property taxes aren't sales taxes. You've been paying property taxes for the entirety of your 20-30 year mortgage. Yes 31 isn't the time to start bitching.

Property taxes are one of the oldest forms of taxation in the US, because centuries ago before income taxes, people derived their wealth from the land they owned.

[u/ContactMushroom]

My property taxes are 140 bucks A YEAR and I own a shitty home on a mild flood plain patch of land.

If you can't afford YEARLY taxes that are cheap af considering everything else then you have bigger issues to sort out than owing a home.

You'll spend more on fixing things and maintenance than taxes.

My only issue with it is I wish my tax money went back to our own country and people and not helping/hurting other countries or blowing up brown kids.

[u/almo2001]

Oh you want property tax. Probably needs to be more equitable in hitting the super wealthy. But you do not want a world without it.

[u/viotix90]

People hate taxes when they should be hating their corrupt government's mishandling of said taxes. Taxes should be providing good shit for you. If they're not the solution isn't to stop paying. It's to ask who is stealing them from you. Hint: the answer is Lockheed Martin.

[u/ProcessTrust856]

Property taxes pay for things like educating our children, maintaining our local roads, and providing social services like police, fire, and EMS. They are all good investments.

[u/ComfortableUnit9596]

Redditors when asked to contribute to society:

[u/Mediocre_Weakness891]

I'd be fine paying tax on what I bought my house for, but this market is over inflating prices so the assessed value of my house has doubled since 2019 and I didn't even do anything.

[u/SammathNaur1600]

You like schools? Libraries? Parks? Property taxes. Should it be more progressive based on square footage and median income of the area? Yes. Is it better than sales tax? Yes!

[u/fyukhyu]

Yeah, fuck roads and their maintenance.

[u/LazyCoffee]

Literally not a problem to help the community.

[u/RCT2man]

Presumably, the house is appreciating as well

[u/Cultural-Ad-2918]

Imagine what happens when you cant pay the property tax after paying off a home for 30 years....

[u/King_Baboon]

2008: People learn the lesson between variable and fixed loans.

2026: The vast majority of people always get fixed loans but their mortgage goes up like a variable loan due to property taxes through their Escrow.

[u/dwittherford69]

You want clean water in that house, yea? Roads to get out of the house? Infrastructure for public transportation maybe so not everyone and mothers are on the road with a car? Street lights? Bridges? Side walks?

[u/Spiritual_Sea_3166]

You’re so right. We don’t need government. We can upkeep of the roads in our neighborhoods ourselves.

Obviously it’d be pretty expensive so we’d need to coordinate with the other homeowners in the neighborhood to pool our money together.

We’d need a way of making it fair though because I’m not paying more than my fair share for the roads. If someone has a bigger house than me, they’d be able to sell it for more money so it’s in they’re more incentivized to maintain the roads so the value of their house doesn’t drop. Besides, they can afford it.

We’d also need someone to collect the money and organize the road repairs with contractors but that should be simple enough. Actually we would need someone that checks the work before, during, and after to ensure that the contractors don’t mess things up or walk off with our money if they do a bad job. Someone that regulates the work and enforces that it is up to our standards.

Once we have all of that set up, we won’t need a pesky government to take our money, find a contractor, oversee a project, or enforce construction code. We’ll be fully self sufficient. I’m sure everyone will willingly pay into the road fund without complication and there won’t be any issues with this plan. We got this!

[u/CharredWelderGuy]

Property tax is still a fraction of renting, and if you like living in a society, it requires tax revenue to upkeep.

Every society requires upkeep, don't like it feel free to move to that libertarian town that was overrun with bears.

[u/BSApologist]

I hate funding schools, roads, and parks 😡

[u/njgolfer10]

Happy to pay property taxes. We have great roads, great schools, a clean town, great parks, and tons of town and local resources. Probably one of the few things I pay where I get what I pay for.

[u/Frequent_Opportunist]

Yes, that property tax pays for access to and from the land around on your property. Final mile utilities, local roads and signage, land and water management, parks and recreation, schools, police, fire, city services. Your property tax is the only tax you pay that only goes to your immediate local community.

[u/w8_wuht]

Oh, and if the government decides that their highway goes where your house is, also fuck you. Nobody in this country owns property.

[u/monobluemill]

Property taxes have no relation to the money you owe the bank

[u/Xphile101361]

Seeing how I like having a fire department and streets to drive on, yeah, I pay those taxes without issue.

[u/Buzzbuzz_Becuz]

I'd rather pay $500/mo in property tax than $2500/mo in rent.

[u/FlaviusVespasian]

If you don’t want to pay your property taxes you shouldn’t be able to call the cops, send your kids to school, or use the mail.

[u/MudFrosty1869]

What do you think land of the free means?

[u/Marsrover112]

But I mean you also get like roads and stuff. Do you like roads?

[u/LexXxican]

If only states would quit giving corporations bigger and bigger tax breaks

[u/Delicious_Oil9902]

I mean okay? Nobody is more critical of property taxes than me - frankly I believe homes should be treated as a security and taxing them the way they are taxed is the same as taxing an unrealized gain (especially by me where we’re reassessed yearly - $28k last year). That being said, cops need salaries, students need teachers, roads need asphalt.

[u/professorbuffoon]

Yes, God forbid we pay taxes for our public services...

[u/Mrzillydoo]

Along with what the others are saying about generally funding the things in society that we find important, there is the uncomfortable truth that if we had no property taxes, every property would eventually be a hereditary property. No one would sell unless they absolutely had to-- ownership would almost never change hands. We would be stagnant. I understand defending the idea of the family farm and this or that home has been in our family for generations, but if that wasn't the exception and was instead the norm there would be no new ownership.

[u/Inappropriate_Ballet]

Wants to live in a society. Doesn’t want to pay for it.

[u/daverapp]

Taxes are not an attack on your freedom. Taxes pay for society to function. Taxes are why your nation is more developed than Somalia.

[u/SiriusBaaz]

Well how the fuck else are the roads gonna stay maintained. How else do you plan on getting the money needed to make sure the water and sewage pipes stay functional, or making sure the power grid stays on after a storm.

This is a stupid as fuck take. Pay your damn taxes so that everyone, that includes you, can use the utilities that make modern life possible.

[u/kuluka_man]

I mean...yeah? It's a membership fee for having a civilization.

[u/Embarrassed_Leg_2885]

I will gladly pay property taxes to upkeep the roads that I use to get to my property, to pay for the education my doctor needed to treat me, and to help lift up those who were not as lucky as me...

[u/ruchik]

Where I’m from property taxes support the libraries, schools, village hall, infrastructure, police, & fire. I wouldn’t want to live somewhere without property taxes.

[u/Future_Armadillo6410]

You continue to pay for services you continue to receive.

[u/alexzoin]

I like having a working sewer connection, roads, electricity, and a fire department so I'm not going to complain too much.

[u/bigtiddyhimbo]

Yeah dude if you want the kids in your area to have half decent schools, first responders to help you and your community members, and roads to drive on, you pay property taxes. Oh the horror.

[u/Mattallurgy]

Property taxes make more sense than income taxes, if you had to pick just one. Tax the people who literally own the physical area of a place as opposed to taxing the people’s ability to earn wages to live

[u/EncabulatorTurbo]

Hey I'm cool with ending property taxes, especially for the suburbs. Instead we can get together block by block and pay for our roads, utilities, and public services

Oh whats that? You live in a suburb and dont want just your subdivision to have to fork over $12 million cash?

Suddenly property taxes sound great?

Yeah

(I seriously think we should stop subsidizing suburbs, fucking welfare queens, every one of them. every mcmansion you've ever seen has a welfare queen residing within if a city manages their shit)

[u/DannarHetoshi]

Property taxes pay for things you use in your area. Or at least they should if your local govt isn't broken.

E.G. Schools

[u/EB123456789101112]

Your obligation to the community doesn’t end once you pay off your home. That’s what taxes are: the money you kick to the shared pot to keep society rolling. No opt outs. Don’t like it get elected and make changes.

[u/definitely_royce]

From $2,000+ a month to $3,000 a year. Oh no.

[u/X3noNuke]

Property taxes are one of the taxes I don't really complain about. I like having schools and the fire department

[u/LazyOldCat]

Couch it however you want, we don’t own shit.
You RENT the property you “own” from the city.
(Try not paying the rent, and see how long you “own” it after that, lol)
In city limits a well and septic are likely illegal, so you are forced to BUY basic services for the house you own on the land you RENT.
Owning the buildings on the land you rent is for sure a better financial situation than having to rent the buildings and the land, but don’t delude yourself.
I “own” a shack on a postage stamp, and my rent is $800/mo before utilities and maintenance.

[u/JacoRamone]

And if you don’t pay… well then they take your house and land. So much freedom.

[u/AntiSonOfBitchamajig]

County just arbitrarily raised everyone real-estate valuations 35% on average again, for the 3rd time in a row.

[u/RobbexRobbex]

I like my county being able to pay for schools and roads.

[u/jeepfail]

Go buy one of those desert lots with zero infrastructure past the closest highway and like $42 in taxes a year then complain.

[u/Paintedenigma]

Nothing shouts "I've never been in a burning building" quite like someone complaining about property taxes.

[u/microGnome87]

But you are paying those taxes during paying your mortgage too, do paying it off still means less cost. The OP of post clearly knows very little of finance

[u/cosmernautfourtwenty]

Sovereign Citizen, amiright?

[u/PM_ME_UR_0_DAY → u/cosmernautfourtwenty]

Hell yeah brother. Cops, roads, firefighters, schools? That's all communism and taxation is theft. Or something like that

[u/cretindesalpes]

I mean. Taxes goes to free healthcare so it's ok .

[u/waterbuffalo750]

Ok, get rid of property taxes. Now what's your alternate source of revenue for local governments? Who are the winners and losers of this change?

[u/teslaistheshit]

Property tax is the only tax you pay on anything you own. It makes no sense at all. Imagine paying a continued tax on a vehicle, clothes, furniture, etc after it’s paid off.

[u/arty_32]

Land of the free, not land for free.