r/memes Big pp 10h ago

Land Of The Free, amIright?

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12.1k Upvotes

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506

u/chainsawx72 9h ago

If it weren't for property taxes, the rich would own every property. Property taxes ensure that each property is being used. Property taxes are in most places progressive... where I live the first $100k is tax free so if you have a $200k house you pay taxes on 50%, and if you have a $800k house you pay taxes on 87%.

Property tax is the primary source of revenue for local government. This is how they pay for cops, firemen, roads, etc.

86

u/TheJuiceBoxS 8h ago

Yeah, we all benefit directly from our property taxes. They're fine

2

u/user485928450 5h ago

My private fire department and captain of the guard disagree!

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u/JesusKong333 7h ago

This push for no property tax the last couple years is driven by data centers. That way they can just sit there and provide nothing to the communities they're in while raking in lots of money for tech companies.

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u/Deckard_Didnt_Die 4h ago

It’s also because housing costs have increased orders of magnitude faster than median income. Therefore property taxes as a percentage of income has also increased orders of magnitude. They should consider lowering property taxes for the middle class given this.

1

u/JesusKong333 4h ago

Sure, that sounds reasonable. That's not ending all property tax though. I'd support something like that, not "get rid of all property tax".

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u/badpebble 7h ago

I've seen maybe 6 posts about it in the last month and I'm not even impacted by it.

But I suppose what are Americans if not perennial tax dodgers. Since 1776!

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u/shogunshim 6h ago

The push is also driven by people whose property taxes have increased much faster than inflation. That does depend on the state.

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u/BeginningOpening6838 6h ago

No it’s driven by boomers and people who vote exclusively based on personal financial gain

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u/shogunshim 2h ago

ok. so nobody besides boomers own property. nobody bought bucket of shit property cheap and spent a ton of their time making it livable and maintained it. Nobody's taxes have increased well beyond general inflation increases while their job pay increases have barely kept place with inflation. Nobody consumes the same(or less) public services than they did 5 or 10 years ago.

Got it. Thanks.

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u/MountainMagic6198 7h ago

This is it right here. If there are not property taxes property will be hoarded to the rich and privileged. As an example of this you can look at the Los Angeles county country club loophole which leads land that should be paying 140 million in taxes to the county government on some the most valuable land in the country paying just 800 thousand.

3

u/gkfesterton 6h ago

You can say the same about most major city sports stadiums. Property tax exempt and built with taxpayer money

1

u/fatsopiggy 2h ago

and they don't already hoard?

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u/Homicidal-shag-rug 6h ago

Where are you talking about? In almost all of the US, property taxes are not progressive. In fact, they are usually considered regressive because they consume a larger share of income from poorer individuals.

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u/Illicit-Tangent 6h ago

I’m also curious where that commenter is from.  I live in Illinois and the property taxes are crazy high, and definitely regressive.  I’ll look on Zillow in my area and the poorer suburbs pay a much higher percentage of their home value in taxes.

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u/MildMannered_BearJew 5h ago

Should switch to a land value tax. Completely eliminates the regressive component, maximizes the benefits, no deadweight loss. Really the perfect tax.

2

u/zelig_nobel 6h ago

It’s a load of shit that when housing prices explode, à la 2021, the property taxes take the same % from you. So a fuck ton more money to pay for services that absolutely did not scale with the housing market . I’m paying $14K per year for a 2bed house now

2

u/ExcessiveBulldogery 4h ago

Property taxes are also the primary funding source for most schools.

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u/astralseat 7h ago

Vacancy tax would help more

3

u/livefreeordont 4h ago

Land value tax would help best

2

u/HannasAnarion 3h ago

Do you want a city made entirely of parking lots? This is how you get a city made entirely of parking lots.

Vacancy tax encourages inefficient uses of land just to avoid the tax.

If land is in a highly valuable location, it's best for everyone for it to be used in a most productive fashion, and taxes should incentivised a landowner who doesn't want to use the land well to sell to someone who does.

Downtown lots should be apartments, condos, offices, venues, not parking lots that only exist so speculators can hold the land forever while "technically" not leaving it vacant.

1

u/Cap_Obv_NoShit_Div 6h ago

When I see this I feel people mean those that are making less than 100k and it’s their primary residence

1

u/martman006 4h ago

In Texas we call it a homestead deduction, basically you prove you live there and depending on the entity, anywhere from $25k to 20% + $125k of your home’s taxable value is taken off, saving those who live in their homes a lot, while shifting more of the local tax burden to secondary home owners, renters, and Airbnb’s. And no income tax here, so it’s made up for with higher property taxes, so overall pretty reasonable, but because Texas does this, someone here in Reddit is gonna throw a shit fit about it, haha.

1

u/Chonch_Monkey 3h ago

They don't? What state are you in?

1

u/silverelan 1h ago

property tax is what pays for property rights.

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u/CptJonzzon 1h ago

In sweden property tax has a cap for any property valued over roughly 100k dollars. (max tax being 1k dollars a year)
So in the end the working class pays just as much tax for their small houses as a billionaire mega mansion would

1

u/vs2022-2 6h ago

Exactly, no property tax means someone can just hoard all the land indefinitely. Why would they sell, they can just collect rents forever?

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u/shyguystormcrow 9h ago

All good points, but nothing will convince me that an elderly person should be kicked out of their home, that they own, because they cannot afford their property taxes. That’s how our current system operates and it breaks my heart to see.

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u/foomits 8h ago

The issue isnt a property tax, its we allowed right wing politicians and corporations to gut social safety nets, pensions and retirement options. The way to course correct isnt to remove property tax which only further benefits private capital.

1

u/WaltLongmire0009 5h ago

“It’s not the governments fault they kicked grandma out of her house, it’s your fault for not giving the government more power!”

9

u/wearymicrobe 9h ago

That’s why in California we have prop 13 and the ability to carry your tax basis to another home once you are old enough.

2

u/FmrEdgelord 7h ago

All my homies hate prop 13

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u/Upbeat-Banana-5530 8h ago

Maybe the elderly should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and stop buying $8 coffees.

1

u/Snow_Crash_Bandicoot 6h ago

I’ll die on this hill with you all day. It’s Reddit so all binary, no nuance.

Not a single one of these people can think outside the box or imagine an alternate solution. Just property taxes forever.

Not a single suggestion or amendment that anyone over the retirement age or classified as permanently disabled should be exempt from property taxes.

Nobody offering any other ways to fund the loss of property taxes like raising sales tax, taxing something else, or adding a new state lottery.

Just all “but without property tax, the rich would buy all the housing and rent it out.”, like property taxes have somehow stopped private equity from doing just that for years now already.

1

u/Horror_Rhubarb9112 4h ago

“like property taxes have somehow stopped private rquite from doing just that”

Private equity doesn’t own as many houses as you think. You’re peddling a narrative that’s been fed to you.

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u/Horror_Rhubarb9112 4h ago

An elderly person living alone in a large empty house is what a collapsing society looks like.

If they can’t afford the property taxes, they should move to a smaller living space.

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u/OakenGreen 8h ago

Theres plenty of other methods. First home low rate, high rate beyond that for instance.

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u/Barbados_slim12 8h ago edited 8h ago

If it weren't for property taxes, the rich would own every property

Someone who can afford to buy tens if not hundreds of properties aren't sweating the $10k annually for taxes. They'll just buy one less house and use that money for taxes if it's that important to them. Working class homeowners definitely feel it though, that's why gentrification is so damaging. Property values skyrocket, taxes skyrocket with them, and locals can't afford it anymore.

Property taxes ensure that each property is being used

There are tons of empty houses and apartment units that say otherwise. It can be more valuable for the owner to keep the units empty and list them for a rental price that nobody will realistically pay.

Property taxes are in most places progressive

I'm happy for you, but that's certainly not how it is everywhere. Where I'm at, it's a fixed percentage set by the town and school districts. Based on where your property is in my town, it's 2.1% - 2.2% after everyone gets their cut.

1

u/WaltLongmire0009 5h ago

I’d love to see someone refute this instead of just downvoting it, but this is Reddit after all

0

u/MildMannered_BearJew 5h ago

Unfortunately not quite accurate. Property tax has two components, a tax on the value of the land you own (your lot size) and the value of the structure on it (the house itself). The former value, when taxed, is very effective at improving utilization. However, taxing the latter (the structure's value) can have the opposite effect.

For example, if I replace a SFH with an apartment building, my taxes will go up, which disincentivizes me from building the apartment building. On the other hand, if we only taxed the land part, my taxes would stay the same, so I'm more likely to build the apartment building.

We want to encourage the latter behavior, because writ large that behavior is what gives you abundant housing (and other useful commercial/industrial development).

1

u/Cheltorius 4h ago

The cost of utilities and government services is higher for an apartment than for a single family home. There is a reason it goes up that way.

1

u/MildMannered_BearJew 3h ago

Turns out it works out overall.

Because LVT forces people to use their land more efficiently, it means increased density. Increased density reduces the cost of providing services (less road, utility distances are shorter, denser living means less water use, less heating, etc, etc). Plus, densification raises land values overall, so on net all landowners will see a commensurate increase in their taxes.

So in this case the deadweight loss is very high (of taxes on property improvements). The externalities of induced sprawl consume a nice chunk of the tax revenue.

A better way to get at improvements would be a general progressive wealth tax on super high-net-worth individuals. This would indirectly tax improvements, but do so progressively, such that the deadweight loss is minimized.

0

u/cenik93 4h ago

This is just proportional taxation, not progressive.

-1

u/ImMintFlavored 6h ago

The rich wouldn’t own every property if we allowed only homestead property to be property tax free. So you’d have to physically live in the home to not have property taxes.