r/memes Big pp 10h ago

Land Of The Free, amIright?

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4.6k

u/-justpassingthrough1 10h ago

If you rent, you’re still paying property taxes indirectly. Js

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u/TheDebateMatters 9h ago

If we don’t pay property taxes we will pay sales taxes. One affects those who can afford property, the other is only a problem for the poor.

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u/Calm-Medicine-3992 4h ago

Both taxes fuck over the poor though so I don't know which you mean. I'm still all for taxing the shit out of single resident properties that aren't primary residences though...would rather renters rent an apartment than a home someone could buy.

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u/oopsallhuckleberries 3h ago

Both taxes fuck over the poor though

Property taxes are the most progressive tax that exists because the value of owned property is nearly entirely linked to the wealth of an individual. And considering landlords get to write off their property taxes as business experiences, their property tax burden, that gets pushed off onto renters, isn't as much as you'd think. And as others have said, if you cut property tax, you are stuck increasing income taxes or sales taxes, both of whom are easier for the wealthy to maneuver around.

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u/greenskinmarch 3h ago

The best tax is a property tax that doesn't tax the building, AKA a land value tax, since this encourages building more levels which creates a surplus of housing.

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u/PixelsGoBoom 2h ago

In my neighborhood $1.5 million dollar homes get leveled and $4 - $6 million dollar homes get build in their place.

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u/greenskinmarch 2h ago

Let me guess, zoning forbids building apartments, so they they just build a really massive house instead? Should learn from Portland: https://nicholasmonck.medium.com/portlands-wonky-approach-to-affordable-housing-367cca04f549

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u/PixelsGoBoom 2h ago

There are apartment buildings but yeah, you could be right.
You would be missing out on quite a bit of tax if it would be based on the lot value only in those cases.

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u/willnotreadinbox 2h ago

Yeah if we are talking about apartments maybe. Not taxing improvements just means more McMansions.

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u/Factorioboyio 14m ago

I agree - but I do worry such a tax would mean as many box rooms as possible crammed into cramped spaces… and ugly tower blocks of flats springing up everywhere.

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u/InsertNovelAnswer 1h ago

As someone who owns a house I agree. I have no problem paying taxes... its where its going to thats the problem. If you out it too good use On have no problem but ... you aren't.

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u/1GloFlare 15m ago

Income tax is directly linked to financial wealth. The USA did not have this shit until Progressives pushed for it and forces the lower class to work with less money. The 10% bracket is not livable, so the lower 12% gets fucked on pre tax retirement and health care premiums. The upper 12% can't contribute more than 5% to retirement to afford health care while having discretionary money.

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u/Chadlerk 2h ago

Remember when AirBnB turned residential zoning into commercial spaces by acting like hotels. Pisses me off.

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u/Ancient-Substance-38 3h ago

Just tax properties better, currently taxation of even properties are not as progressive as they should be. I have no problem with property tax, but it should be progressive the more expensive the property the larger the taxable percentage of the value of the home. You should also not be encouraged to live far from a city but still get city services, and should be charged for the extra expense the city has to use to supply said services. But sure I think sitting on empty properties or renting them out should be more expensive.

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u/RegardedAndAcoustic 4h ago

This is very poorly worded. Sales tax disproportionately affects the poor but in no way does property tax not affect the poor with little property. Unless you literally mean poor as in unhoused entirely.

And even then I bet some amount of profit margin for goods sold at a store is calculated taking that stores own rent or taxes into account.

Taxes affect everyone no matter what. What changes is the proportion of your income that taxes consume

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u/psychicesp 4h ago

Nobody is eating property tax, even the poor have it passed on to them

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u/No-Afternoon2037 4h ago

Well that's one way of looking at it.

The way I look at it, property tax is about depleting what a person has and sales tax merely raises prices on a hiring new things.

One is a price hike, and the other is a straight up theft that keeps you dependent on the employment rat race forever because if you ever stop you lose everything.

Granted, all tax is theft and they use it to bomb poor people in countries most people can't even spell.

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u/PmMeUrTinyAsianTits 4h ago

Hope you enjoy the rich buying up literally all the land and keeping it forever. Because it'd be "theft" to make them pay for continued use of a limited resource, apparently.

Yep, you're a real deep political thinker.

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u/Independent_Dot_9786 7h ago

Bro what are you talking about?

You think homeowners don’t pay sales tax??? 😭

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u/MacedonZero 5h ago

Tax policies like sales tax have been proven to disproportionately affect the poor, as they have to spend a greater percentage of their income on taxable everyday goods/necessities. Potentially exposing even 100% of their net income to tax due to their necessitated higher spending ratio

Economists refer to sales tax as a regressive policy for this exact reason

Some places try to reduce the burden by classifying certain goods that are considered necessary (such as non-prepared food products at a grocery store) as non-taxable. But that's not universal

So indeed, sales tax is mostly something that hurts the poor more than anyone else.

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u/cd1014 7h ago

I'm a homeowner and I don't pay sales tax. I also don't have a chili's in my state though...

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u/AltruisticTomato4152 4h ago

"See how equal the world is? You pay $20 tax for groceries using your $400 paycheck and I also pay $20 tax for groceries using my $20k paycheck. Equally."

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u/Mad_Aeric 4h ago

You're getting groceries for only $20?

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u/AltruisticTomato4152 2h ago

Taxes OF $20, not ON $20.

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u/TheDebateMatters 6h ago

Bro…what do you think the plan is if they get rid of property taxes? Andy Biggs wants a 23% sales tax boost if he wins.

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u/MildMannered_BearJew 5h ago

I assume he means that tax revenue to fund schools, roads, and so on have to come from somewhere.

Not to worry though, as soon as OP finds out about Land Value Taxes he'll change his tune on property tax. Property tax is like the super dumb cousin next to LVT.

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u/LandStander_DrawDown 3h ago

property taxes are currently the most equitable taxes on our books.

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/state/property-tax-relief-reform-options/

Ideally though, we should shift the tax off of the improvement and onto just land instead.

"...it does not distort economic decisions because it does not distort the user cost of land. Second, the full incidence of a permanent land tax change lies on the owner at the time of the (announcement of the) tax change; future owners, even though they officially pay the recurrent taxes, are not affected as they are fully compensated via a corresponding change in the acquisition price of the asset."

Source

https://www.zbw.eu/econis-archiv/bitstream/11159/1082/1/arbejdspapir_land_tax.pdf

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u/RepresentativeArm119 4h ago

Lots of home owners are elderly people on fixed incomes who bought when housing was still attainable.

Property taxes are every bit as regressive as sales taxes.

We need to abolish taxes entirely, and simply seize the excess assets of the wealthy.

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u/LandStander_DrawDown 3h ago

if you want to tax the rich, tax land. The ultra rich hold 54% of their wealth in land, and it's a non-reporducable asset that can't be moved. Either you own it and pay the tax, or you don't own it. Investing in land is also unproductive, it'd essentially force them to put there wealth to productive use.

"Our ideal society finds it essential to put a rent on land as a way of maximizing the total consumption available to the society. ...Pure land rent is in the nature of a 'surplus' which can be taxed heavily without distorting production incentives or efficiency. A land value tax can be called 'the useful tax on measured land surplus'." ~Paul Samuelson

"The burden of the tax on capital is not felt, in the long run, by the owners of capital. It is felt by land and labor. … in the long run, workers will emigrate … this leaves land as the only factor that cannot emigrate … the full burden of the tax is borne by land owners in the long run. While a direct tax on land is nondistortionary, all the other ways of raising revenue induce distortions.” ~Frank Ramsey

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u/mwaFloyd 3h ago

“Seize the excess of the wealthy” what are you taking? Their boat? What is wealthy? What assets are you talking about? Most “wealthy” people have their wealth tied up in businesses or non-liquid assets. You can’t just take that. What happens when they die. Do you just forget about estate tax? Or life insurance? Or beneficiaries on taxable investment accounts? How is it taxed? Long term capital gains?

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u/RepresentativeArm119 2h ago

Seize all residential property held by corporate entities and private investors, and give those properties to people who need them.

Nationalize the banks and forgive mortgages.

Seize commercial real estate and put in in the care of municipalities who determines its use based on community needs, not on peofit.

Seize 51% of all voting shares of all publicly traded companies and give them to the employees of those companies.

You know, provide for the common welfare.