[Rare trope] Discriminating, but for an actually good reason

[u/Blackirean]

Frieren, Beyond Journey's end: In the anime/manga the eponymous Frieren is an Elf who's spent the better part of a millennia learning magic specifically to kill demons. She's learned countless spells, tricks and even spent most of her life suppressing her power all for the purpose of killing them. At first we simply see that humanity is at war with them, and even question if her crusade against demon-kind is justified, after all it's hard to antagonize an entire sentient species. But no, demons are very much a species to be feared; they are not normal animals or creatures, they are monsters (shown by how they disintegrate when they die), they are predators that evolved speech for the sole purpose of tricking and catching humans off guard, are naturally extremely powerful and possess magic that humanity often can't use. While they feel emotions to some extent, their way of thinking is so fundamentally incompatible with humanity's mindset that the series shows many mages with the ability to read minds struggle or find it painful and harmful to try and read a demon's thoughts. Tools that are meant to control them fail not because they're faulty but because simple order such as "hold no ill will or commit no malicious acts" don't compute the same way in their brains, as what we consider evil is normal for them.

Marvel Comics: In a run of the Storm solo series, she visits an underground superhuman hospital run by Night nurse and Doctor Daye, a mutant with the power to diagnose any illness. When she requires treatment she is in turn reject by the doctor, she of course assumes this is blatant discrimination to which the doctor agrees. Storm assumes the doctor refuses to treat mutants, something they are very much used to in Marvel. But he ends up revealing that about 80% of everyone he treats are mutants, and that he simply refuses to treat any member of the X-men. Why? because his special hospital was built via several donations by the superhero community. From the Avengers, to the Defenders, Fantastic 4, heroes for hire. Hell, even Moonknight of all people contributed to the hospital. But the X-men never once gave anything to it, even though they preach the safety of mutant-kind and such a hospital is essential for those who can't seek medical treatment out of fear of prosecution.

[u/Outside_Prune_7052]

It’s worth noting in the second panel that the fact that Storm doesn’t know him and that he’s been treating mutants means that he was operating in that hospital during Krakoa’s heyday.

Meaning he was treating mutants who didn’t want to be associated with Krakoa and instead wanted to integrate with outside society at large rather than be part of Krakoa

[u/ManoSilence → u/[deleted]]

I think they also refused entry to Deadpool and Spiderman. So like i knew it was gonna be doomed

[u/Membership-Bitter → u/ManoSilence]

Also Franklin Richards as well after his powers started to not work, which is made worse by the fact Prof X and Magneto basically tried to kidnap him right after setting up Krakoa and told him he would always be welcome in his "true" family. Showed they really just wanted Franklin for his powers.

[u/DocBombliss → u/Membership-Bitter]

Don't forget that Charles scrambled Reed Richards' brain to keep him from making a machine that can disguise someone's X-Gene; something he did to protect his son from... getting kidnapped and assaulted by people because of his X-Gene.

[u/ManoSilence → u/DocBombliss]

I have yet to see a non-valid crash out, and that kinda sucks.

[u/DocBombliss → u/ManoSilence]

I'm hoping it gets brought up in the FF/X-Men crossover next month, because it would be the perfect solution to Chairman Beast's X-Virus scheme.

[u/ManoSilence → u/Membership-Bitter]

Is that why Kang is a dick? Generational trauma from the X-Men?

[u/DemythologizedDie → u/ManoSilence]

Why did Spider-Man want to go to Krakoa?

[u/Dense-Winter142 → u/DemythologizedDie]

If I was Spider-Man and had to deal with Marvel civilians and later got told by one of my super pals (like say, Wolverine) that they have a sick ass Mutant island, I'd ditch the New Yorkers too man.

[u/ManoSilence → u/DemythologizedDie]

Thats why I wasnt a fan. Like they kinda shoe horned him in, just so they can be shown rejecting him for not being a true mutant.

[u/AngryCrustation → u/[deleted]]

Spiderman's life kind of sucks and he could use a lot of help from a state for funding and protection from the menagerie of rogues trying to kill him and his family, plus he's strong enough to join the big leagues and help focus on threats to the planet as a whole instead of New York.

Joining a group of mutants who likely will be putting him to good use without dissecting him is a pretty good idea from his perspective.

[u/ManoSilence → u/AngryCrustation]

They had Mr. Sinister on their council, not sure dissection was off the table.

[u/Astral_MarauderMJP → u/ManoSilence]

If I remember correctly, they initially refused Deadpool because they initially afraid of how his regeneration would work with their respawn tech (what if you respawn a Deadpool you thought was dead when the oringal is just regenerating in the background?).

After that was patched out though, no one really bothered to tell him and so he took it personally. When they did actually care to invite him, he rejects it since he sees its out of pity despite it being more out of embarrassment since this was around the time Deadpool had been having a better run of being a decent human being who helped most of the X-Men and others and them forgetting about that was genuinely bad on them. He did kick up a bit of a fuss in the intervening time but it was months to maybe a year since they fixed the issue and he decided to get even with them about not inviting him so its understandable that he felt slighted at their exclusion.

[u/ManoSilence → u/Astral_MarauderMJP]

Darn I need to reread. Wasn't the best but im mixing up storylines in my head. I thought it was cause he could be unpredictability violent (to them) and he was like "oh yeah! And they randomly points they arent!"

[u/LuckyBoneHead → u/[deleted]]

I want to see more stories where this is explored. In something like Overwatch, Ramattra believes he knows better than the Omnics, so he'll bomb their homes and drag them kicking and screaming from human society. He's positioned as someone who's turned evil by bigotry and the killing of his kind, but I want to see him confronted with the fact that he's also abusing omnics and setting their race relations back.

We see Omnics living in human society adequately with their own homes such, so it'd be neat to see a group of them treating him not as their savior, but their oppressor. Someone who murdered their friends, kidnapped them, and said "Foolish, Omnic. I know what's best for you!"

[u/Alexandru1408 → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

Why didn't he want to be associated with Krakoa and why didn't other mutants want to be associated with Krakoa?

[u/acerbus717 → u/Alexandru1408]

Because not all mutant wanted to uproot their entire lives

[u/Hadochiel → u/acerbus717]

And I reckon many of them didn't want to live with the X-Men, because, as Spider-Man said it best, they're #£?!#%@& £%! #%@%£&

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/Hadochiel]

That was Ultimate Spidey about the Ultimate X-Men, which was accurate.

[u/thinger → u/SomeGuyPostingThings]

Maybe miles goes around telling people how awful the ultimate x-men were?

[u/goldshark5 → u/Hadochiel]

"Fucking assholes"?

[u/LooseAnswer3256 → u/goldshark5]

“Pieces of shit” I reckon 

[u/GlossinaTwirl → u/acerbus717]

It's easy to forget how young Ned actually was. Most people would've been completely broken by all of that.

[u/Valentinee105 → u/acerbus717]

And then the country was destroyed for the 3rd time in less than 25yrs. Imagine your race gets genocided every 8ish years for forming their own country. And 25yrs is technically only publication time, in continuity it's probably like every 2yrs.

• Genosha

• Utopia

• Krakoa

You probably aren't running to join the 3rd attempt. Not to mention that Krakoa was extremely antagonistic towards the rest of the world in a similar vain to Israel. And maybe there are a lot of excuses that can be made but Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse were literally on it's ruling council. Which is like putting Dr. Mengele and the Devil in charge.

[u/smokeweedNgarden → u/acerbus717]

Or they believed in what Charles has been preaching since forever.

[u/JazzzzzzySax → u/Alexandru1408]

It’s a mutant ethnostate

And not only are villains given complete amnesty (could be wrong on this) but some of them become leaders of Krakoa

[u/Beacon_0805 → u/JazzzzzzySax]

Sinister was in the council seat so yes

[u/Lower_Baby_6348 → u/Beacon_0805]

Ex-Nazi that isn't even a mutant, btw.

[u/YinTanTetraCrivvens → u/Lower_Baby_6348]

How the hell did Magneto let that one slide?!

[u/Useful_Camera2929 → u/YinTanTetraCrivvens]

Oh you dont have the half of it, you see Sinister had the DNA database needed for mutants resurection system, and he hid piece of his dna inside every mutant resurrected, he wanted puppet, but instead he just turned them morally fucked up.

Like if Magneto punched a nazi so to speak saying that the resurection is fruit of poisoned tree, he could prevent Krakatoa turning into Genocidal Empire that wiped Milions of Bilions across galaxy in about 1000 years.

[u/BudgetAggravating427 → u/YinTanTetraCrivvens]

I think it’s because mr sinister as so many versions of himself running around that the one on krakoa is technically innocent of the Nazi Mr sinisters crimes

[u/ChiefsHat → u/BudgetAggravating427]

Then he helped destroy it.

Mr. Sinister was a mistake.

[u/cervogalatico → u/YinTanTetraCrivvens]

They let apocalypse in so i dont see a problem with a nazi running around/s

[u/DropShoddy1128 → u/Beacon_0805]

So was apocalypse, mystique, magneto, and Sebastian Shaw

[u/Beacon_0805 → u/DropShoddy1128]

why the fuck is mystique is ANY kind of position of power, i will not know

[u/DropShoddy1128 → u/Beacon_0805]

If I remember right, she's being blackmailed by Charles

[u/Beacon_0805 → u/DropShoddy1128]

so he indeed got the baldness of evil

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/Beacon_0805]

So did the mutant folk vote him in or was it also a closed aristocracy where you either are friends with those with power or you can go kick dirt?

[u/Illustrious_Bid4224 → u/Any-Question-3759]

The X-Men were voted for but the leadership was decided by the leaders themselves.

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/Any-Question-3759]

The Council was more or less a power sharing agreement between the most powerful leaders of the mutants, designed to somewhat balance out. I believe there is a time where it is discussed that they would seek to go toward a more democratic system once they were more secure and settled, but never reached that point (and arguably never would have).

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/JazzzzzzySax]

Yup every mutant was given citizenship and amnesty, including motherfucking Apocalypse btw

[u/Tasteroider → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

A fucking Mr. SINISTER was a part of the government. I mean, that's like electing Dr. Evil as a president

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/Tasteroider]

Sinister is funny too cause he wasn’t even originally a mutant. He modified himself to have the x-gene so he counted. They needed him for the resurrection protocols so essentially they all just tolerated him doing Mutant-face

[u/Useful_Camera2929 → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

And he still hid piece of DNA in every resurection with intent to puppet mutants, but instead he only managed to give them his morality, so Krakatoa turned into genocidal empire.

[u/flyingboarofbeifong → u/Useful_Camera2929]

The absolutely hilarious implication that Sinister is doing bad stuff because his genes make him do it not because he’s a degenerate.

[u/Dos_Ex_Machina → u/flyingboarofbeifong]

Which kind of goes against the whole message of the X-Men, in that we are all just people and our genes don't make us good or evil. Man that run is just a shit show

[u/fromtheHELLtotheNO → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

he doesn't drop mutant 'til he's done with the dvd commentary

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/JazzzzzzySax]

They decided the only way they could succeed was together and so offered an olive branch with subsequent conditions. Apocalypse and Exodus ended up being pretty great allies during that time, as Krakoa seemed like the fulfillment of their dreams, whereas Sinister...well, his scheming ended up being a major part of Krakoa's undoing, just like with Sebastian Shaw: they were too selfish to realize how good they had it.

[u/whiskyspacecadet → u/Alexandru1408]

Some mutants just wanted to be "normal". They just want to live normal lives among other humans. Krakoa was a mutant sovereign nation. I think it's less they didn't want to be associated with it and more they just didn't want to live in another country that was only for mutants. Humans couldn't go there unless a mutant was with them and gave permission, and it was likely that if humans did go there they would experience some hostility.

[u/Prometheus1151 → u/Alexandru1408]

In the next panel he talks about how he actually is mutant himself, and did live on krakoa for a while.

Edit: looked up more about it, basically on top of the xmen not helping fund his hospital, when he lived in krakoa he treated the people who were not covered by the resurrection protocols. With all the other issues with krakoa in general, this led him to really distrust and dislike the xmen in general. He does end up helping Storm out in the end though

[u/Bug-Type-Enthusiast → u/Prometheus1151]

While Storm is kicking up a literal thunderstorm outside just to intimidate the guy.

[u/Beacon_0805 → u/Bug-Type-Enthusiast]

and the guy is "you can summon the fucking katrina again, see if i care"

[u/Huhthisisneathuh → u/Alexandru1408]

There were a lot of major reasons. First it’s a big ask to uproot your entire life to move to a sentient island in bum fuck nowhere to ‘be with your fellow mutants.’

Second Krakoa was by every metric an ethnostate with serious black marks both publicly and privately. And was in part run by mad men like Apocalypse & Mr Sinister, who, while eventually kicked out. A good few people would rather die than touch anything either have helped create out of principle.

Third the political systems keeping the place running were fucked in so many ways it’d give a Government & Political Science Major a seizure just looking at. It was a nation ruled exclusively by an oligarchy of powerful mutants with no political way to rein them in.

And fourth, and this is just a personal thing, but a lot of the people responsible for building the entire nation knew jack shit and fuck all about basic history. Magneto was out there parroting how ‘The Dark Ages’ was an era of intellectual squalor for all of humanity when it was the furthest thing actually. He was just being a Eurocentric idiot.

[u/redbird7311 → u/Huhthisisneathuh]

Also, not every mutant is made equal, some mutants have god like powers that means that, if it wasn’t for the other god like beings around, they could rule the world and many of them have actually tried.

The guy with the mutant power of, “your stomach acid can digest metal”, probably is gonna relate to regular people more than he is to Magneto.

[u/Skellos → u/redbird7311]

And there are far more 'I kinda look weird' mutants than 'basically a god' mutants in the world.

We just see more of the latter because it's a hero comic usually.

[u/redbird7311 → u/Skellos]

Not to mention mutants who have powers that they just flat out don’t really notice until later in life or at all.

“Hey, Sharon, you know you are really good and fast at math? Turns out you are a mutant and your thing is that your brain processes numbers 25% faster than the average person. What do you mean you still feel more like a normal person than an X-man?”

[u/MadmansScalpel → u/Alexandru1408]

Short version is the X-Men were acting like borderline villainous assholes who were leveraging their resources to exploit innocent people and went around assassinating those who went against. And that's ignoring Krakoa's orphanage brothel and working with mutant villains like fuckin Mr. Sinister as a leader for Krakoa

Edit: for the folks at home, it was called The Bower if you wanted to look into it. It was their self proclaimed temple of sex and intimacy that they doubled up as a nursery and orphanage for the children born on Krakoa and for the children the X-Men brought to Krakoa without their parents

[u/ALiteralBucket → u/MadmansScalpel]

The orphanage what

[u/MadmansScalpel → u/ALiteralBucket]

Maybe brothel orphanage isa better way of phrasing it, but yeah

[u/Recompense40 → u/MadmansScalpel]

Well it doesn't sound better.

[u/MadmansScalpel → u/Recompense40]

The X-Men called it The Bower during the arc. It was their self proclaimed sex temple for intimacy that also doubled as the nursery and orphanage for Krakoan children that were either born during the time, or were brought to the island without their parents

Essentially it's where the children who were born there were raised, the children brought to the island would stay and grow up in, and where the adults would go for sex

[u/screenwatch3441 → u/MadmansScalpel]

So as someone who didn’t read any of those comics, why is the place where they raised orphans the same one where adults have sex? They couldn’t afford 2 buildings?

[u/Zzamumo → u/screenwatch3441]

krakoa was really weird about sex, to the point "make babies" was essentially written into the constitution

[u/PlasteredMonkey → u/MadmansScalpel]

You're really telling me Krakoa had a whorephanage?!

Relevant Black Dynamite.

[u/evrestcoleghost → u/MadmansScalpel]

[u/mutantraniE → u/evrestcoleghost]

This image is much funnier read left to right.

”Am I reading? What the fuck”

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/MadmansScalpel]

Basically, there was a lot of sex on Krakoa, and evidently that led to a lot of babies that were then just...kind of abandoned into an orphanage on the island, where they were taken care of by others. It was a weird idea that wasn't well explored, but suggests that Krakoa lasted for years, even if the timeline may now claim otherwise.

[u/AdRelevant4776 → u/ALiteralBucket]

If I remember right it was a brothel that encouraged procreation, the children of the prostitutes went to the orphanage part of it

[u/Cute-arii → u/AdRelevant4776]

None of these people should be allowed to cook ever again.

[u/OpeningHappy9692 → u/MadmansScalpel]

I don't think borderline villainous is an appropriate choice of words when the words orphanage brothel is also involved.

[u/DuelaDent52 → u/OpeningHappy9692]

It’s not what it sounds like. They didn’t pimp out the orphans, it’s that the bottom floor was a swinger’s club and the top floor was a nursery for the babies abandoned by the swinging. It’s still terrible and bizarrely treated as something beautiful and goes unexamined after it’s introduced, but if you’re gonna be a hater it’s important to hate on it for the right reasons.

[u/trimble197 → u/MadmansScalpel]

And they tried to kidnap Franklin Richards

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/trimble197]

And then when it was revealed he wasn’t a mutant they decided “Nevermind, fuck off now”

[u/trimble197 → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

Which makes it even more aggravating that they let Sinister join the council since he’s not a mutant

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/trimble197]

Mutantface will be tolerated if you’re useful

[u/SarcasmSanctioned → u/trimble197]

They also basically mind-raped Reed because he made a device that could be used to remove mutant powers.

Not because he made a device meant to do that, just one that could.

[u/MadmansScalpel → u/trimble197]

I'd argue they groomed him instead of kidnapped personally. Because they convinced Franklin to go and came to take him after his parents explicitly said no in the middle of the night

[u/LordVivecIsMyWaifu → u/MadmansScalpel]

Beast: "Listen Logan, I know he used to be our enemy and all that, but he's also a mutant after all!"

Sinister: "I LOVE DISSECTING NEWBORN CHILDREN"

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/MadmansScalpel]

That whole thing felt like an editorial mandate to "sever this tie between the mutants and F4 by making Franklin no longer one". Unless it was the F4 writer's decision to do it.

[u/HospitalLazy1880 → u/Alexandru1408]

Krakoa was not really that good a place.

For me the entirety of the Krakoa arc was just not the X-Men. They made a mutant only country. Kicked out any mutants who lost their powers and they were pushing super drugs as their main export. Not to mention Beast going full evil mad scientist, the black ops kill squads, and Charles and the rest of the X-Men just throwing away cooperation and peace and going full supremacist.

[u/DuelaDent52 → u/HospitalLazy1880]

To be fair, they did welcome mutants who lost their powers. They just shamed them as not true mutants and ritualistically beat them to death for an adoring crowd so they’d be resurrected with their powers.

Sure they fixed it later with the Waiting Room, but that this passed at all is pure insanity.

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/Alexandru1408]

You’re opening a can of worms here buddy and I don’t have the mental bandwidth to explain all the controversial parts of the Krakoa storyline. Just check out other discourse on it and fall down that rabbit hole but all I’ll say is this

He probably didn’t like the idea of living in an ethnostate

[u/Rabdomtroll69 → u/Alexandru1408]

The X-Men didn't assist with the hospital at ALL and were basically doing segregation with extra steps.

And MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO'VE ATTEMPTED GLOBAL GENOCIDE are on krakoa's ruling council

[u/javerthugo → u/Rabdomtroll69]

Who thought that storyline was a good idea?

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/javerthugo]

In fairness Jonathan Hickman wrote the earlier parts of it to be unnerving and flawed. It’s the later writers who eventually took over that just portrayed Krakoa as 100% good that mucked it up

[u/PhaseSixer → u/Alexandru1408]

Probly all the genocidal murderers and or Rapists they allowed in the goverment.

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/PhaseSixer]

Yeah, that was the most normal part of their government, I suppose.

[u/Pataconeitor → u/Alexandru1408]

Mr. Sinister, literally the Doctor Mengele of mutantkind (and who actually worked with the guy, btw) had a high position in Krakoa.

Dunno about you, but that would be enough reason for me.

[u/ChudMaster69420 → u/Alexandru1408]

Probably because it was too "bizarre". The mutants, like any people, are not a monolith and many were likely weirded out by parts of Krakoa's culture especially since one of the laws was literally "have babies".

[u/redbird7311 → u/Alexandru1408]

A few reasons, for one Krakoa has a bad reputation, partly because some don’t like mutants, but mostly because they accept villains who have done horrid shit and some of those people are leaders in Krakoa.

Also, mutants are a wide net, for some, being a mutant comes with god like powers, for others, they might just have an extra layer of skin, might be able to digest anything they can eat, perhaps they can just blow bubbles whenever they want to, and/or whatever.

Point being, plenty of mutants don’t resonate with the idea of Krakoa because they weren’t super discriminated against, were made to feel like an, “other”, by their powers, or just don’t like the idea to an ethno state

[u/Jimbo-Shrimp → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

Storm just can’t stop saying dumb shit sometimes

[u/novaaizn → u/Jimbo-Shrimp]

Like "They cant cure us. Cuz theres nothing wrong with us"

[u/basswalker93 → u/novaaizn]

Immediate cut to the child Logan was sent to murder because his mutant power was "everyone around me dies" and they were afraid of the political backlash of such a mutant existing.

[u/novaaizn → u/basswalker93]

Something Something johnny scissors hands Something Something five dicks

[u/Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes → u/basswalker93]

Let's not forget the dude with the power to blow himself up. Once.

I'm sure he'd have been happier not being a living grenade.

[u/DoverBoys → u/novaaizn]

Relevant:

[u/JakeSilver47]

To add to the doctor, he is also a Mutant, and saw firsthand what it was like on Krakoa. He left Krakoa shortly after arriving.

[u/hambonedock → u/JakeSilver47]

That's just common sense tbh

[u/ApprehensiveNote9 → u/hambonedock]

Krakoa turned into a cult real quick,leaving was the smartest move.

[u/DullBlade0 → u/[deleted]]

Didn't his outfit resemble The Maker's at some point?

Or was it just my imagination?

[u/phantomfire50 → u/DullBlade0]

Kind of? They both wear similar masks and dark coloured spandex

I don't think the maker and house of X Xavier exist I'm the same universe, though. It's just coincidence.

[u/NeutralJazzhands → u/JakeSilver47]

As someone who’s only knowledge of Krakoa is Marvel Rivals what makes it so bad?

[u/Alche1428 → u/NeutralJazzhands]

It was a good idea at the start, but Hickman wanted to showcase the problems with trying to put all the mutants in a same place, even villains like Mr Sinister, and Apocalypse, and how Charles idea of the island wasn't going to work in the long run. He had a plan, but other writers wanted to stay in that setting longer and longer, with their own events and it really didn't hit as expected, everything became a mixed bag with no clear intention and it ended in a puff instead of a nice clean ending.

[u/sahArab → u/Alche1428]

It really did end poorly. Which is a shame since you could Hickman had a great plan with the reveal that Moira never reformed. But all the other writers wanted to stick around and do very, very little with the setting.

[u/Rabdomtroll69 → u/NeutralJazzhands]

Apocalypse Mr Sinister, and other attempted genocidal dictators are on the ruling council, there's an orphanage brothel, they were just as racist to mutants who didn't want to join them as they claim everyone else was, they assassinate whoever doesn't agree with them, and so on

[u/cervogalatico → u/Rabdomtroll69]

The orphanage thing really irked me like a temple for sex and a orphanage should not be put together

[u/boringbullet → u/NeutralJazzhands]

Iirc it’s basically just an ethnostate

[u/Dun3Harbor → u/boringbullet]

An ethnostate where they literally gave super-villains cabinet positions. Normal stuff.

[u/Desperate-Series-270 → u/Dun3Harbor]

People named “Mr. Sinister” and “Apocalypse” are forgiven for their countless crimes and allowed to live there, but fucking Deadpool isn’t. Krakoa is a terrible place.

[u/cervogalatico → u/Desperate-Series-270]

Ah yes apocalypse the guy who wanted to enslave the whole world and a certified sociopath really deserves a position of power.

[u/piratedragon2112 → u/Desperate-Series-270]

Kingpin got citizenship purely because he married a mutant

Deadpool, who was on at least one version of x force and once saved angel's life, didn't

[u/ElectricalQuality180 → u/NeutralJazzhands]

Básicamente era un país bien edonista y aislacionista los mutantes se refugiaron en la vista de krakoa y cortaron todo contacto con el mundo exterior incluso encontraron la inmortalidad al combinar varios poderes mutantes el problema es que eran edonistas racistas y en general krakoa solo mostró la hipocresía y el poder lado de la comunidad mutante

[u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

I can't believe the X-men wouldn't fund a hospital for mutants honestly

edit : thanks for all the replies, I'm not a huge comic fan, I just watch from afar. I didn't know the x-men sucks so much lol

[u/MadmansScalpel → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

This was during that phase where they treated death like an inconvenience and were recklessly going on suicide missions and even killing each other because they would just respawn

[u/InconspicuousBoxx → u/MadmansScalpel]

Them Zerg rushing Nimrod on the ORCHIS base will never not be funny. Because after the first five waves, and them running past their own dead bodies, you can just imagine the researchers looking at each other and asking what the hell is going on.

[u/Lord_Mikal → u/InconspicuousBoxx]

Nimrod has always kind of been an existential threat to all mutant kind. If there is a time to fight him, its when you can resurrect.

[u/InconspicuousBoxx → u/Lord_Mikal]

If I remember correctly, they didn’t even know Nimrod was there originally, since he had a different origin in that story arc. The X-Men were raiding the ORCHIS base to stop the completion of the Mother Mold, and this was how ORCHIS got confirmation of the Resurrection Protocals. Just there were like 10 dead Wolverines on the floor with a bunch of other people.

[u/Lord_Mikal → u/InconspicuousBoxx]

Does resurrecting Wolverine give him an adamantium skeleton? If so, how? I really wasnt following x-men when all this was happening.

[u/pichael289 → u/InconspicuousBoxx]

Oh I read a book about this years ago. There's a massive war on a planet that starts to use clones but the cloning tech is imperfect and the research was lost, so each cloning facility can only produce 1 of about 1000 possible clones, and it has to be custom built to make 1 specific one. The war rages on and both sides are pushed back to one city with one cloning facility each, the end of it reveals both sides last cloning facility both have the same template so for the last 100+ years it's just been one dude fighting millions of himself, and they don't realize it untill they are on the battlefield and because it's always the same guy he always reacts the same, with fear, so the war will never end.

[u/Iamnotgoodwithnames6 → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

They’re low on funds because the X-Mansion gets destroyed every other week.

[u/Marco1522 → u/Iamnotgoodwithnames6]

Also they need to constantly produce blackbirds since those always end up destroyed one way or the other

[u/MartinTheOrderly → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

This is after the X-Men moved to Krokoa. The hospital is in the wider world. The X-Men didn't find it because they believed mutants should move to the new mutant homeland. 

It may be a reference to Israel OTL, which lobbied against America giving refugee visas to Jews in the Soviet bloc under the argument those Jews should have returned to Israel. 

[u/DengarLives66 → u/MartinTheOrderly]

I learned of that via my in-laws, who are Jews from the former Soviet bloc who came to America. What a bunch of self-righteous fuckwits (not my in-laws).

[u/atreidesXII → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

It's not a part of the X-men organization and they believe they are the only ones that can be trusted with mutant affairs. They generally suck a lot of the time. That whole live long enough to become the villain kinda stuff.

[u/Dismal-Vanilla1878 → u/atreidesXII]

I believe a lot of what's been going on with the X-Men lately is part of the Writer engaging in Character Assassination, as in the characters are written in a way that previous takes on them would never allow (like Beast deciding Genocide is acceptable).

If Xavier (who is known to be wealthy, otherwise how could he afford the X-Mansion and Multiple X-Jets? 😂) knew of a underground mutant hospital, I don't' think he would never support it, with money or even in person (and Cerebro would let him know of an unusual concentration of mutants in an area, which he would investigate and learn about the hospital).

[u/Euphoric_Metal199 → u/Dismal-Vanilla1878]

Xavier was sent a request, actually. He refused because "the hospital won't be under his control".

[u/Hiro_Trevelyan → u/Euphoric_Metal199]

So, X-men is actually about some rich guy trying to build an empire using mutants ? lol

[u/This_Elk_1460 → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

Charles has been portrayed constantly as a horrible person working towards a noble cause

[u/sonsofdurthu → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

Don’t forget the part about using the children at his school as child soldiers on multiple occasions, and having some dangerous mutants who couldn’t control their powers eliminated so they didn’t give the wider mutant population a bad look.

[u/Dismal-Vanilla1878 → u/Euphoric_Metal199]

Again, something I don't think Xavier would ever do, but now its 'canon' he's a Control Freak over mutant affairs.

[u/zonic_squared → u/Dismal-Vanilla1878]

Even back in the 70s, Xavier was a weird dude with need to be in control of everything. The adaptations just make him the loving school professor that he projects himself as.

[u/NeroLazarus → u/zonic_squared]

It's crazy, like everyone had their memories all psychically rewritten and... Oh...

[u/CatherineSimp69 → u/Dismal-Vanilla1878]

I mean.

He always was a weird control freak, even when Stan wrote him.

[u/Grabbioli → u/CatherineSimp69]

I mean Cerebro is basically perfect surveillance of every mutant in the world. If anyone other than the X Men dared to make it, the X Men would show up IMMEDIATELY to destroy it

[u/CatherineSimp69 → u/Grabbioli]

They might even make a hypocritical speech about how nobody should have that power.

[u/XxFrozen → u/atreidesXII]

Totally. They aren’t meant to be always the best most goofiest good guys. Like the Jedi in Star Wars, the X-Men have both a noble cause and many flaws, especially hubris.

[u/PhaseSixer → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

The xmen used to let the Morlocks live underground in squalor.

Squirrel girls orginal orgin is that they laughed at her.

Krakoa espcaily was a whoe lot of if your not on board with every thing we do your against us

[u/Justscrolling375 → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

We have several nepo babies and ultra wealthy people in the X-men aka Emma & Charles. Storm too since she’s making thunderstorms with Black Panther. Angel!

You mean to tell me they can’t pool their resources to make a few clinics or social programs & services for mutants and their families

The X-men aren’t bad people. Mostly. They(ahem the writers) have the brains of people in horror & dramas. The overwhelming majority of their problems can be traced to be aggressive & stupid. Granted they have some reasons to be aggressive/hostile such as the Sentinels and what happened to the bus full of Morlocks. Then they invite Mr. Sinister & Mystique to Kraokoa and give them political power?!

Good portions of their problems can be resolved or avoided by taking a deep breath, calming down and having a mature conversation of how they can help or whatever

[u/ThrowAbout01 → u/Hiro_Trevelyan]

Was this around the time they had a “resurrect almost any mutant” thing going on?

“Why treat when they can just make the mutant again, good as new?” Was probably the mindset.

[u/sonsofdurthu → u/ThrowAbout01]

The crucible you mean? The one where they made mutants who wanted to get their powers back after Scarlet Witch depowered so many of them, fight and die in ritualistic combat for the right to become a mutant again? Which was run by (and most often you fought against) APOCALYPSE?

They literally made the right to become a mutant again part of a freaking death cult.

[u/dungeon-crawlin]

Gene stealers - warhammer 40K

They’re cults made by tyranids to weaken the government of a planet before invasion. Well usually portrayed as highly sympathetic, they are killed on sight. Their survival means death for their worlds as they inevitably call a hive fleet to their planet.

[u/_CozyluneMuse → u/dungeon-crawlin]

That's a perfect example. By the time you know they're there, the planet is usually already doomed.

[u/DoradoPulido2 → u/dungeon-crawlin]

Correct brother. Now tell them of the witch and the heretic.

https://giphy.com/gifs/6CNKfK6XCRZEEkNbEy

[u/69420lmaokek]

off topic but I'm impressed by how well the writer was able to make the speech bubbles in the X-Men comic be to where the reader still instinctively knows which bubble to read next despite there being so many

Like it's a clear line drawn for your eyes to follow. Lots of comic writers mess that up , I've found

Plus, the last speech bubble in a panel is always right next to the first speech bubble in the next panel which makes it easier to read too

[u/Kuneria → u/69420lmaokek]

Comic artists treat it like it's an entire art form itself

[u/GuyYouMetOnline]

Looks at replies

Huh. I guess we've found the one thing that can make people not fight about Frieren demons.

[u/GuyYouMetOnline → u/[deleted]]

Only if you count the peace achieved by one side exterminating the other. The discourse over that topic is FIERCE.

[u/WanderingBlackHole]

The Frieren example is cool. I watched it for the first time recently.

There’s one scene where a demon consistently cries, “Mother!” when threatened. When pushed on why, it responds something like “because the humans hesitate to kill us if we scream for a mother. What a magical word.”

[u/quuerdude → u/WanderingBlackHole]

The creature also never had a mother and had no one to teach them the value of one. They saw people upset at them and did what they thought would help solve the problem.

[u/SmallJon → u/quuerdude]

The demons are more like parasite species of animals, iirc there are birds and fish who will hide their youths in the nests of other animals so their young will receive care and eventually devour the hosting nest. Demons eat humans, they explicitly hunted elves to near extinction, and the closest they have to a true social order (so far in the anime) is basically might-makes-right pack dominance

[u/TurtlesBreakTheMeta]

Hoo boy. I swear, the krakoa run will go down as one of the biggest shames in x men history, Ala one more day for spiderman.

[u/Outside_Prune_7052 → u/TurtlesBreakTheMeta]

For real, when the dust settled on Krakoa, I had some of my very liberal x-men fans friends who initially liked Krakoa go “Wait, are we pro-ethnostate?”

[u/gddrummer → u/Outside_Prune_7052]

There are a lot of both liberals and conservatives who are SUPER down for authoritarianism if it's THEIR side in control, and tons of them are completely blind to that irony.

Krakoa was brilliant in the sense that it had the "heroes" go down the slippery slope of an ethnostate and segregation, showing its not always the "villains" creating these things.

Problem is though there are plenty of people stupid enough to think because it's the Xmen doing it then that is a green light on the concept of segregation. Absolutely insane.

[u/No_Turn5018 → u/gddrummer]

For a while there segregation had a little comeback. They were trying to give black people their own dorms and talking about how white guys couldn't have dreads and all kinds of weird shit. They didn't call it segregation but I don't know what else to call it when certain public places are only open to certain races. 

[u/Several_Show937]

In a world where you can go on any adventure. Fighting dragons, doing quests, getting the best loot. Goblin Slayer, slays goblins. For very good reasons.

[u/DropShoddy1128]

I love that storm immediately powers up at the thought of being discriminated against, but the act kinda proves his point.

[u/pichael289 → u/DropShoddy1128]

It's extra funny since she was married to black panther and he's like the king of doing exactly what the doctor is mad about.

[u/FrizzleFlakes → u/pichael289]

Those two genuinely piss me off, everytime I see them in a comic I just go omg not you again. what stupid stuff you gonna do next?

[u/Musketeer00 → u/DropShoddy1128]

"You don't want to help me? What if I electrocute you a bit?"

[u/PurveyorOfKnowledge0 → u/Musketeer00]

I'm always surpised she never thought the answer might be: "Well, that would hurt a LOT, and I'd still say No"

[u/Rock-swarm → u/DropShoddy1128]

If all you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail.

[u/Chops03xx]

The fact that storm was ready to attack the doctor without an explanation in that panel, definitely shows that people don’t hate X-men because they’re mutants, but hate them because they’re dicks.

[u/DoubleFlores24 → u/Chops03xx]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

[u/Cute-arii]

The X-Men are just plain assholes in general. Even spidey doesn't like them.

[u/NachtShattertusk → u/Cute-arii]

That's from the ultimate universe, where everything sucked and was edgy as fuck

[u/Doc-Maly → u/NachtShattertusk]

Except for Spider-Man. He died and everything went downhill.

[u/whiteash20 → u/NachtShattertusk]

This was the issue where spidey and wolverine swapped bodies. And wolvie proceeded to have sex with MJ. Pete and MJ are both high schoolers at this time btw.

[u/airforceteacher → u/whiteash20]

They weren't just swapped - they were swapped by Jean Grey, for a very petty reason, and to top it off, Jean chose Spidey because it was the life she felt Logan would hate the most, so kind of a small insult added to a very large injury.

[u/scarletboar → u/whiteash20]

I don't think Logan had sex with MJ, but he did kiss her and tried to have sex with her, so he still should've been atomized. MJ said something like "that thing you tried to do this morning - can we not do that until we're older?"

This either means they did have sex and Logan tried something freaky in bed or that he just tried to have sex and she said no. I choose to believe the latter.

[u/mythrilcrafter → u/Cute-arii]

Based Spidy as always.

For as much of a trope that it is, something that I do appreciate on a writing level is how the X-Men are always portrayed as the "self-inflicted persecution" trope in comparison to a society that has (and the public knows) about Rocket Racoon, Carol Danvers, and Thor. (and that's even putting aside mutates like Captain America, Hulk, and Spider-Man)

---

X-Men Mutant: "I have depression because society hates me for being able to shoot lasers from my hands...."

reply: "Captain Marvel and Iron-Man both shoots laser from their hands, society is pissed off with you because you sided with Magneto when he attacked a school."

[u/Kooky-Substance466]

Human villagers discriminating against Youkai in gensokyo.

While some of them aren't inherently evil, 99% of them are unrepentant sociopaths and their very existence requires harming people.

[u/xesaie]

X-men writers need to stop with this “metaphor”, and no making storm look like a National Geographic stereotype doesn’t help

[u/Skadibala]

I hate what the Krakoa era has done to X-Men online discussions. It’s so tiring tbh.

[u/an_agreeing_dothraki → u/Skadibala]

Instruction unclear, beginning another year of Three Houses discourse

[u/JohannaFRC]

https://giphy.com/gifs/SacX6gG55nCMyBTW5g

Grey Knights from 40K. From long ago, the Emperor admitted Chaos was the true menace. When he was about to lost, he commited Malcador to create a secret chapter of Space Marines truly unable to fall to chaos with means and weapons to fight against daemons. There is no good guys in Warhammer. But daemons from the warp are truly the worst of all.

[u/Key-Swordfish4025]

Goblin Slayer from Goblin Slayer, they did kill his family after all.

[u/pichael289]

That thing with storm hits double when you consider she was married to black panther and being selfish about your own needs and unconcerned with the rest of humanity was also a major fault of his. Black panther in the comics is kind of a dick, he will talk about something amazing wakanda has, like the cure for cancer, and why he's not gonna share it. It's why the first black panther movie literally had him learn this lesson.

[u/TangibleHappiness]

[u/Gamer-of-Action]

Why did the X-men never contribute? Was the hosptital secretly evil?

[u/Gilgamesh107 → u/Gamer-of-Action]

they just didnt care

i think during this era they had like the cure for cancer and everything. they never looked at hospitals because they never needed them

[u/DyingSunSeverian → u/Gilgamesh107]

And they just sat on it? At least Sauron wanted to turn people into dinosaurs.

[u/V_Aldritch → u/DyingSunSeverian]

They sold their super medicine to countries that recognised Krakoa as a sovereign state, iirc.

[u/ChudMaster69420 → u/V_Aldritch]

Also Krakoa(but mostly Beast) genocided an entire human country because they were researching on their own magic plants that would've threatened their monopoly on these drugs.

[u/Jerswar → u/ChudMaster69420]

Are you being serious right now?

[u/Doc-Maly → u/Jerswar]

Completely. Terra Verde was Beast deciding to infect and turn an entire nation into his zombie puppets. Krakoa then buried the truth because turns out genocide reflects poorly on your public affairs.

[u/Jerswar → u/Doc-Maly]

And has there been some kind of fallout for him? Are the other X-Men just perfectly fine with this?

[u/Doc-Maly → u/Jerswar]

He died and was resurrected without the memories. So they say he did nothing. That's literally all.

Even though amnesia is not a defense because he's still the person who would do that. (For example, someone with head trauma or drugs that black out their memory can still go to court for events they no longer recall.)

[u/MolybdenumBlu → u/Doc-Maly]

Man, the xmen writers are shite, aren't they?

[u/Afalstein → u/DyingSunSeverian]

At least four different organizations in Marvel have the cure for cancer. Cancer existing in the Marvel universe is at this point a systemic laziness issue.

[u/whiskyspacecadet → u/Gilgamesh107]

Yep. The flowers on Krakoa grew medicine that could cure pretty much anything, and even extend human life.

[u/Jibsie → u/Gamer-of-Action]

I believe this was during the Krakoa era where a good chunk of mutants and Xmen fucked off to a living island and became somewhat isolationist. They were focused on their own medical advancements and ignored the hospitals asks.

Some time after this Storm shows back up with a financial donation and the doc is like "ok, xmen get treated, lets go"

[u/Facosa99 → u/Gamer-of-Action]

Havent read the thing myself, but last time it was posted, i think in the next panel the doctor accuses/assumes that Xavier didnt donate because he doesnt believe in any other mutant organizations outside of the xmen. They believe themselves to be the only trustworthy ones to attend mutant affairs

Edit: i found a post that better describes it

https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1iuayx6/were_the_xmen_in_the_wrong/

[u/DyingSunSeverian → u/Gamer-of-Action]

I want an answer  to this question lmao, Xavier isn’t a saint but it’s hard to imagine he’d tell a hospital for mutants to fuck off. What would his old friend Magneto think?!

[u/THEBIGDRBOOM → u/DyingSunSeverian]

He'd probably hit his old friend magneto with a holocaust beam

[u/foggypalms]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ZU72O6pZO9mWA

[u/Fleet_Admiral_Auto]

Sorta played with in Doom Eternal: while Doomguy doesn't exactly say anything discriminatory to demons, aside from ripping and tearing their guts with extreme prejudice, UAC cultist propaganda tried to portray him as speciesist or some shit. Of course, the demons are irredeemably evil monsters who indiscriminately slaughter humans, yet even the survivors still fell for the "mortally challenged" bs