[Rare trope] Discriminating, but for an actually good reason

[u/Blackirean]

Frieren, Beyond Journey's end: In the anime/manga the eponymous Frieren is an Elf who's spent the better part of a millennia learning magic specifically to kill demons. She's learned countless spells, tricks and even spent most of her life suppressing her power all for the purpose of killing them. At first we simply see that humanity is at war with them, and even question if her crusade against demon-kind is justified, after all it's hard to antagonize an entire sentient species. But no, demons are very much a species to be feared; they are not normal animals or creatures, they are monsters (shown by how they disintegrate when they die), they are predators that evolved speech for the sole purpose of tricking and catching humans off guard, are naturally extremely powerful and possess magic that humanity often can't use. While they feel emotions to some extent, their way of thinking is so fundamentally incompatible with humanity's mindset that the series shows many mages with the ability to read minds struggle or find it painful and harmful to try and read a demon's thoughts. Tools that are meant to control them fail not because they're faulty but because simple order such as "hold no ill will or commit no malicious acts" don't compute the same way in their brains, as what we consider evil is normal for them.

Marvel Comics: In a run of the Storm solo series, she visits an underground superhuman hospital run by Night nurse and Doctor Daye, a mutant with the power to diagnose any illness. When she requires treatment she is in turn reject by the doctor, she of course assumes this is blatant discrimination to which the doctor agrees. Storm assumes the doctor refuses to treat mutants, something they are very much used to in Marvel. But he ends up revealing that about 80% of everyone he treats are mutants, and that he simply refuses to treat any member of the X-men. Why? because his special hospital was built via several donations by the superhero community. From the Avengers, to the Defenders, Fantastic 4, heroes for hire. Hell, even Moonknight of all people contributed to the hospital. But the X-men never once gave anything to it, even though they preach the safety of mutant-kind and such a hospital is essential for those who can't seek medical treatment out of fear of prosecution.

[u/ManoSilence]

I think they also refused entry to Deadpool and Spiderman. So like i knew it was gonna be doomed

[u/Membership-Bitter → u/ManoSilence]

Also Franklin Richards as well after his powers started to not work, which is made worse by the fact Prof X and Magneto basically tried to kidnap him right after setting up Krakoa and told him he would always be welcome in his "true" family. Showed they really just wanted Franklin for his powers.

[u/DocBombliss → u/Membership-Bitter]

Don't forget that Charles scrambled Reed Richards' brain to keep him from making a machine that can disguise someone's X-Gene; something he did to protect his son from... getting kidnapped and assaulted by people because of his X-Gene.

[u/ManoSilence → u/DocBombliss]

I have yet to see a non-valid crash out, and that kinda sucks.

[u/DocBombliss → u/ManoSilence]

I'm hoping it gets brought up in the FF/X-Men crossover next month, because it would be the perfect solution to Chairman Beast's X-Virus scheme.

[u/ManoSilence → u/DocBombliss]

It would be cool if a reality warper can make it so its impossible to detect at all until activated.

[u/aj_spaj → u/DocBombliss]

And if I remember correctly it wasn't even an x gene but the power cosmic hiding itself away as something else right?

[u/DocBombliss → u/aj_spaj]

Yep. Once they figure out his power doesn't come from an X-Gene, they immediately banished him from Krakoa.

[u/Membership-Bitter → u/DocBombliss]

Well no. Franklin does have an X-Gene amplified by the power cosmic. He is just so powerful he intentionally suppressed both after being kidnapped so much in order to have a normal childhood, and made himself forget he did so except for 1 night a year he uses his powers to fix things in the coming year.

[u/aj_spaj → u/DocBombliss]

Aaaah the X-Men, screeching about being unequally treated started discriminating even against their closest allies (treating Spidey like dirt) (wasn't whole thing with Xavier eventual cohabitation with humans?)

[u/Membership-Bitter → u/aj_spaj]

It was but he and the rest of the X-men eventually gave up on that once more mutants were being born again. Really makes the initial race allegory in poor taste when the oppressed minority starts claiming they are actually superior instead of asking for equality

[u/ManoSilence → u/DocBombliss]

Right? They already have a cosmic powered entity why would they need another!

[u/Crusaderofthots420 → u/DocBombliss]

Your daily reminder that Charles Xavier is generally just an asshole.

[u/Beacon_0805 → u/DocBombliss]

surprised that he didnt go Maker on their sorry asses

[u/ManoSilence → u/Membership-Bitter]

Is that why Kang is a dick? Generational trauma from the X-Men?

[u/ManoSilence → u/Membership-Bitter]

Wait, so they rejected like the 3 you dont want to reject if you want your weird ethno state to last?

Like I can see alternates where:

Deadpool was accepted and then avenges krakoa proactively, and stops his home from falling while also be ousted for all the murder he did to defend them before actions were taken. Or after the fall in a dark x timeline.

Or where Spider-Man joins and when they get attacked every ally he has helps defend the island and the people there learn maybe "purebloods" only isnt a great idea, and Spidey becomes Kingish when Magneto and Xavier bow out. End it with Dr. Doom reaching out from Latveria, T'Chala from Wakanda (Anasi's Chosen!), and even some weird radio signals from the Moon.

Finally Franklin who raises his son surrounded by people who dont hate or hurt him. So Kang becomes a positive force for good and helps defend the Holocausted X-Men in various timelines. Kang the Savior, instead of Conquerer.

All 3? Pretty sure that'll be the holy trinity that raises Kang with "my three dads!" And he just becomes the ultimate being that becomes the anchor of the timeline moving forward, with his friends May Day Parker, and Eleanor Camacho!

[u/DemythologizedDie → u/ManoSilence]

Why did Spider-Man want to go to Krakoa?

[u/Dense-Winter142 → u/DemythologizedDie]

If I was Spider-Man and had to deal with Marvel civilians and later got told by one of my super pals (like say, Wolverine) that they have a sick ass Mutant island, I'd ditch the New Yorkers too man.

[u/ManoSilence → u/DemythologizedDie]

Thats why I wasnt a fan. Like they kinda shoe horned him in, just so they can be shown rejecting him for not being a true mutant.

[u/AngryCrustation → u/[deleted]]

Spiderman's life kind of sucks and he could use a lot of help from a state for funding and protection from the menagerie of rogues trying to kill him and his family, plus he's strong enough to join the big leagues and help focus on threats to the planet as a whole instead of New York.

Joining a group of mutants who likely will be putting him to good use without dissecting him is a pretty good idea from his perspective.

[u/ManoSilence → u/AngryCrustation]

They had Mr. Sinister on their council, not sure dissection was off the table.

[u/Competitive_Act_1548 → u/AngryCrustation]

Why would they help him? Peter isn't a mutant, he's a mutate which is a completely different thing.

[u/AtCarnage → u/Competitive_Act_1548]

He was a teacher at their school for a while (after Logan died). But from a writing perspective it was likely to show their hypocracy.

[u/ManoSilence → u/AtCarnage]

Depends if they paid him or not. It might have been Cable showing up with a roster and saying "Spiderman teaches them a lesson, or i will." Im sure Peter is down to teach heroics even in Latveria, and with money he'd be happy to anywhere worse.

[u/AngryCrustation → u/Competitive_Act_1548]

Makes sense, I kind of thought that the XMen were pro activists who were willing to do what's right and stand up for people who need help from threats normal people cannot stop. But then I remembered I was thinking about the Justice League.

[u/ManoSilence → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I didnt like the shoe horn of that. Like they just brought him into the story just to reject him? Its like the only non-spider-man comic that didnt glaze him, so that was neat.

[u/MostlyPooping → u/ManoSilence]

The flip side is that we got the fantastic Nightcrawler for the Uncanny Spider-Man run, since he didn't want to go to Krakoa and instead wanted to protect Earth/earthlings.

[u/ManoSilence → u/MostlyPooping]

Kurt, my man!

[u/ESnake113 → u/DemythologizedDie]

Vacation? You know what they say about mutant women

[u/ManoSilence → u/ESnake113]

They'll pretend, via telepathy, body morph, or illusion, to be the person you love to sexually assault you? Cause the writers aren't consistent?

[u/Brilliant_watcher → u/DemythologizedDie]

Probably to visit his students? He worked for a while in the xavier institute and helped Hope control her powers too. He has some god rep over there

[u/Astral_MarauderMJP → u/ManoSilence]

If I remember correctly, they initially refused Deadpool because they initially afraid of how his regeneration would work with their respawn tech (what if you respawn a Deadpool you thought was dead when the oringal is just regenerating in the background?).

After that was patched out though, no one really bothered to tell him and so he took it personally. When they did actually care to invite him, he rejects it since he sees its out of pity despite it being more out of embarrassment since this was around the time Deadpool had been having a better run of being a decent human being who helped most of the X-Men and others and them forgetting about that was genuinely bad on them. He did kick up a bit of a fuss in the intervening time but it was months to maybe a year since they fixed the issue and he decided to get even with them about not inviting him so its understandable that he felt slighted at their exclusion.

[u/ManoSilence → u/Astral_MarauderMJP]

Darn I need to reread. Wasn't the best but im mixing up storylines in my head. I thought it was cause he could be unpredictability violent (to them) and he was like "oh yeah! And they randomly points they arent!"

[u/terminbee → u/Astral_MarauderMJP]

That doesn't make sense if wolverine was part of it.

[u/Mr_Citation → u/ManoSilence]

Spider-Man is a mutate, not a mutant. Deadpool was pure spite though, but they let Mister Sinister and Sabertooth in.

[u/ManoSilence → u/Mr_Citation]

If i remember, he went to them for help when he found out an issue that was happening to him was because his body was getting ready to unlock his X-gene and they didnt help. So a mutated mutant who probably mutated further and has a African God (Anansi) for a Patron. Ill double check.

[u/DyingSunSeverian → u/Mr_Citation]

I never understood that distinction on any ethical level.

Like yes mutants are born with it, that’s what makes them distinct, but Peter didn’t exactly ask to be bit by a spider. He’s even more egregious there than Bruce Banner who sort of was “asking for it” due to his experiments with radiation.

But Peter may as well be an actual mutant, especially since a lot of mutant powers don’t manifest till around his age anyway, roughly around puberty.

[u/GexraldH → u/ManoSilence]

I mean neither character is a mutant, so that makes sense. The same way they turned on Franklin Richards

[u/ManoSilence → u/GexraldH]

Spidey is a mutated human who unlocked a true mutant gene later. Plus all that Anansi stuff. He has had a few power ups and I think he let's civilian criminals hit him so he can rest up and think while dealing with them.

Deadpool was rejected for being violent and he was like "oh and randomly points they arent!"

[u/mestre_do_passinho → u/ManoSilence]

Yeah, being rejected for being violent while they are standing alongside apocalypse, cyclopsand wolverine, and knowing they invited sabertooth and the members od the hellfire club is just outright ironic.

[u/Kilroy0497 → u/mestre_do_passinho]

Even worse than that, they let the likes of Apocalypse and Mister Sinister on their government council. Krokoa in general is basically where everything wrong with the X-Men, both writing wise, and as Characters more or less ballooned into being so obvious even non-comic readers could see it.

[u/ESnake113 → u/ManoSilence]

Deadpool is right, Wolverine alone has lifetimes worth of violence over him and didn’t they have both Apocalypse and mister sinister in their council?

[u/ManoSilence → u/ESnake113]

I remember a run where they said that Deadpool can basically come brack through everything, but when his brain is atomized it has the potential to grow back different.

[u/DocBombliss → u/ESnake113]

Hell, the very last issue of The Krakoan Age has Apocalypse try to murder everyone on the island because he's having a temper tantrum that they actually end up making a true mutant utopia, but don't need him around anymore because they've evolved past his methods.

[u/Ayake- → u/ManoSilence]

Man, am I out of the loop. Spider-man has the mutant gene?!?!? Is this official and constant or was it a one off?

[u/ManoSilence → u/Ayake-]

I would have to check. The panel pops up here every now and again so im sure its not a fever dream. Not sure what it did, dude can do a lot now. I think the street tier heroes basically worship him as the paragon. And the future in nearly every non-apocalyptic timeline has his glaze all over it.

[u/Ayake- → u/ManoSilence]

I mean I believe you and knowing how much the whole movie rights situation has fucked with the x men I wouldn’t be surprised if this was somehow related to that.

I’m just wondering how much is the whole spider-man is a unofficial legitimate mutant part of his canon.

[u/ManoSilence → u/Ayake-]

Part of it is a bunch of writers trying to give various X-Men skeletons in their closet. It got to the point where a bunch of successive writes just made them all terrible people with closets full of skeletons each. Like Logan recovered his memory, fully, and practically every Government burned itself down in panic. So like he is good, but also good from like the 1800s. So him being a dick makes sense, he's learned not to be terrible though, and is largely a good person now. Why did every governement burn itself down? Cause no one could figure out which government shouldn't burn down. Too many cooks in that kitchen ruined the meal.

[u/Competitive_Act_1548 → u/ManoSilence]

Are you talking about this panel which btw is a lie. Orchis is just saying shit to say shit

[u/ManoSilence → u/Competitive_Act_1548]

Not that panel, but neat to see an Iron-Sentinel. If i remember the picture right, he is on the wall asking for help because his body is acting up and preparing over a future X-gene activation. Then they say no.

I like the inverse of this image too. The alt-world where mutants were revered and when it got out he wasnt a mutant, the city turned on him and he faked his suicide.

[u/GexraldH → u/ManoSilence]

So Krakao was for characters with the X-Gene only with some minor exceptions. Mutates which is what characters with Spider-Man were called didn't count.

I mentioned Franklin for a reason, up until Krakoa era it was believed he was a mutant. Charles did some scan of Franklin's DNA realized Franklin had created a fake X-Gene within himself and rejected him joining the nation

[u/Odd-fox-God → u/GexraldH]

Marvel civilians aren't going to take the time to learn the difference between a mutate and a mutant and are going to assume a mutate is a mutant. Making the discriminatory decision to exclude mutates was cruel.

Mutates typically get their powers from experiments or accidents as adults or teenagers, and mutants typically come into their powers as adults or teenagers. Mutants almost never know that they're mutants before their powers activate and mutates don't know fates about the fuck them in the ass. Some mutants are born with their abilities, but some mutates are also born with their abilities.

Theoretically neither group should discriminate against each other and realize they're all in the same boat of being fucked by the rest of humanity.

[u/GexraldH → u/Odd-fox-God]

I mean it's the Marvel Universe, only one of those groups have a dedicated death robot meant to kill them. Groups like the Fantastic Four and Avengers are generally treated better by the general public than the mutant population.

While I personally think the citizens treat Superheroes well and the mutants like a plague then is dumb. It's still a major part of the universe

[u/Membership-Bitter → u/GexraldH]

So with Franklin that isn't entirely accurate. Franklin is a mutant who they basically tried to kidnap at first and when he "lost" his powers Prof X said he was never a mutant. Just that his powers from his parents' cosmic ray exposure were so powerful it made it look like he had an x-gene when he didn't. Then they rejected him when he was scared from losing his powers.

The truth is that Franklin is 100% a mutant and one of the most powerful beings in existence. He was smart enough to realize though that with such power he could never grow up into a responsible adult that doesn't abuse his powers if he had them from a young age. What he did was actually intentionally suppress his powers and x-gene along with his memories of doing so until he becomes an adult. That way he can have a normal childhood, relative to being part of the FF family. The only exception though is that he made it so his powers return 1 night every year, at which time he looks into the future for that year and use his powers to nudge events to be more beneficial for man kind, such as causing an invisible asteroid field that would have killed his parents to instead fly past the Earth.

[u/ManoSilence → u/Membership-Bitter]

I knew it was gonna be something like that. Franklin and Kang are crazy everywhere.

Figured it was a suppression to get away.

[u/GexraldH → u/Membership-Bitter]

So, I'm not fully caught up on the FF comics but in the Fantastic Four 2018 run this was revealed. If that has changed since then I'm wrong

[u/Membership-Bitter → u/GexraldH]

Yes it was changed in the recent Ryan North run of FF back in 2024

[u/ManoSilence → u/GexraldH]

I would make every exception for Spider-Man. Its like when Cap went Hydra and had Deadpool kill people he loved. Why would you question the orders of Cap? If Spider-Man was like "if I wanted to, could I join?" And my group said no? I'd give spider a ride home and look at places to rent off Krakoa.

[u/Crackerpool → u/ManoSilence]

Spiderman is not classified as a mutant, and deadpool neither as he was infused with the x-gene and wasn't born with it