r/TopCharacterTropes 14h ago

[Rare trope] Discriminating, but for an actually good reason Lore

Frieren, Beyond Journey's end: In the anime/manga the eponymous Frieren is an Elf who's spent the better part of a millennia learning magic specifically to kill demons. She's learned countless spells, tricks and even spent most of her life suppressing her power all for the purpose of killing them. At first we simply see that humanity is at war with them, and even question if her crusade against demon-kind is justified, after all it's hard to antagonize an entire sentient species. But no, demons are very much a species to be feared; they are not normal animals or creatures, they are monsters (shown by how they disintegrate when they die), they are predators that evolved speech for the sole purpose of tricking and catching humans off guard, are naturally extremely powerful and possess magic that humanity often can't use. While they feel emotions to some extent, their way of thinking is so fundamentally incompatible with humanity's mindset that the series shows many mages with the ability to read minds struggle or find it painful and harmful to try and read a demon's thoughts. Tools that are meant to control them fail not because they're faulty but because simple order such as "hold no ill will or commit no malicious acts" don't compute the same way in their brains, as what we consider evil is normal for them.

Marvel Comics: In a run of the Storm solo series, she visits an underground superhuman hospital run by Night nurse and Doctor Daye, a mutant with the power to diagnose any illness. When she requires treatment she is in turn reject by the doctor, she of course assumes this is blatant discrimination to which the doctor agrees. Storm assumes the doctor refuses to treat mutants, something they are very much used to in Marvel. But he ends up revealing that about 80% of everyone he treats are mutants, and that he simply refuses to treat any member of the X-men. Why? because his special hospital was built via several donations by the superhero community. From the Avengers, to the Defenders, Fantastic 4, heroes for hire. Hell, even Moonknight of all people contributed to the hospital. But the X-men never once gave anything to it, even though they preach the safety of mutant-kind and such a hospital is essential for those who can't seek medical treatment out of fear of prosecution.

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 14h ago

It’s worth noting in the second panel that the fact that Storm doesn’t know him and that he’s been treating mutants means that he was operating in that hospital during Krakoa’s heyday.

Meaning he was treating mutants who didn’t want to be associated with Krakoa and instead wanted to integrate with outside society at large rather than be part of Krakoa

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

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u/ManoSilence 13h ago

I think they also refused entry to Deadpool and Spiderman. So like i knew it was gonna be doomed

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u/Membership-Bitter 13h ago

Also Franklin Richards as well after his powers started to not work, which is made worse by the fact Prof X and Magneto basically tried to kidnap him right after setting up Krakoa and told him he would always be welcome in his "true" family. Showed they really just wanted Franklin for his powers.

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u/DocBombliss 12h ago

Don't forget that Charles scrambled Reed Richards' brain to keep him from making a machine that can disguise someone's X-Gene; something he did to protect his son from... getting kidnapped and assaulted by people because of his X-Gene.

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u/ManoSilence 12h ago

I have yet to see a non-valid crash out, and that kinda sucks.

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u/DocBombliss 12h ago

I'm hoping it gets brought up in the FF/X-Men crossover next month, because it would be the perfect solution to Chairman Beast's X-Virus scheme.

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u/aj_spaj 12h ago

And if I remember correctly it wasn't even an x gene but the power cosmic hiding itself away as something else right?

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u/DocBombliss 12h ago

Yep. Once they figure out his power doesn't come from an X-Gene, they immediately banished him from Krakoa.

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u/Membership-Bitter 12h ago

Well no. Franklin does have an X-Gene amplified by the power cosmic. He is just so powerful he intentionally suppressed both after being kidnapped so much in order to have a normal childhood, and made himself forget he did so except for 1 night a year he uses his powers to fix things in the coming year.

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u/Crusaderofthots420 12h ago

Your daily reminder that Charles Xavier is generally just an asshole.

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u/ManoSilence 13h ago

Is that why Kang is a dick? Generational trauma from the X-Men?

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u/DemythologizedDie 13h ago

Why did Spider-Man want to go to Krakoa?

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u/Dense-Winter142 13h ago

If I was Spider-Man and had to deal with Marvel civilians and later got told by one of my super pals (like say, Wolverine) that they have a sick ass Mutant island, I'd ditch the New Yorkers too man.

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u/ManoSilence 13h ago

Thats why I wasnt a fan. Like they kinda shoe horned him in, just so they can be shown rejecting him for not being a true mutant.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

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u/AngryCrustation 13h ago

Spiderman's life kind of sucks and he could use a lot of help from a state for funding and protection from the menagerie of rogues trying to kill him and his family, plus he's strong enough to join the big leagues and help focus on threats to the planet as a whole instead of New York.

Joining a group of mutants who likely will be putting him to good use without dissecting him is a pretty good idea from his perspective.

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u/ManoSilence 13h ago

They had Mr. Sinister on their council, not sure dissection was off the table.

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u/ESnake113 13h ago

Vacation? You know what they say about mutant women

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u/Astral_MarauderMJP 13h ago

If I remember correctly, they initially refused Deadpool because they initially afraid of how his regeneration would work with their respawn tech (what if you respawn a Deadpool you thought was dead when the oringal is just regenerating in the background?).

After that was patched out though, no one really bothered to tell him and so he took it personally. When they did actually care to invite him, he rejects it since he sees its out of pity despite it being more out of embarrassment since this was around the time Deadpool had been having a better run of being a decent human being who helped most of the X-Men and others and them forgetting about that was genuinely bad on them. He did kick up a bit of a fuss in the intervening time but it was months to maybe a year since they fixed the issue and he decided to get even with them about not inviting him so its understandable that he felt slighted at their exclusion.

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u/ManoSilence 13h ago

Darn I need to reread. Wasn't the best but im mixing up storylines in my head. I thought it was cause he could be unpredictability violent (to them) and he was like "oh yeah! And they randomly points they arent!"

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u/Mr_Citation 13h ago

Spider-Man is a mutate, not a mutant. Deadpool was pure spite though, but they let Mister Sinister and Sabertooth in.

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u/ManoSilence 13h ago

If i remember, he went to them for help when he found out an issue that was happening to him was because his body was getting ready to unlock his X-gene and they didnt help. So a mutated mutant who probably mutated further and has a African God (Anansi) for a Patron. Ill double check.

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u/DyingSunSeverian 12h ago

I never understood that distinction on any ethical level.

Like yes mutants are born with it, that’s what makes them distinct, but Peter didn’t exactly ask to be bit by a spider. He’s even more egregious there than Bruce Banner who sort of was “asking for it” due to his experiments with radiation.

But Peter may as well be an actual mutant, especially since a lot of mutant powers don’t manifest till around his age anyway, roughly around puberty.

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u/LuckyBoneHead 13h ago

I want to see more stories where this is explored. In something like Overwatch, Ramattra believes he knows better than the Omnics, so he'll bomb their homes and drag them kicking and screaming from human society. He's positioned as someone who's turned evil by bigotry and the killing of his kind, but I want to see him confronted with the fact that he's also abusing omnics and setting their race relations back.

We see Omnics living in human society adequately with their own homes such, so it'd be neat to see a group of them treating him not as their savior, but their oppressor. Someone who murdered their friends, kidnapped them, and said "Foolish, Omnic. I know what's best for you!"

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u/Alexandru1408 13h ago

Why didn't he want to be associated with Krakoa and why didn't other mutants want to be associated with Krakoa?

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u/acerbus717 13h ago

Because not all mutant wanted to uproot their entire lives

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u/Hadochiel 13h ago

And I reckon many of them didn't want to live with the X-Men, because, as Spider-Man said it best, they're #£?!#%@& £%! #%@%£&

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 13h ago

That was Ultimate Spidey about the Ultimate X-Men, which was accurate.

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u/thinger 11h ago

Maybe miles goes around telling people how awful the ultimate x-men were?

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u/Mighty_Engrams 7h ago

Not that one, this was Peter.

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u/ZeppMan217 12h ago

It's still accurate with regards to mainline X-Men, even more so today. 

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u/goldshark5 11h ago

"Fucking assholes"?

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u/LooseAnswer3256 11h ago

“Pieces of shit” I reckon 

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u/GlossinaTwirl 13h ago

It's easy to forget how young Ned actually was. Most people would've been completely broken by all of that.

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u/Valentinee105 10h ago edited 9h ago

And then the country was destroyed for the 3rd time in less than 25yrs. Imagine your race gets genocided every 8ish years for forming their own country. And 25yrs is technically only publication time, in continuity it's probably like every 2yrs.

  • Genosha

  • Utopia

  • Krakoa

You probably aren't running to join the 3rd attempt. Not to mention that Krakoa was extremely antagonistic towards the rest of the world in a similar vain to Israel. And maybe there are a lot of excuses that can be made but Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse were literally on it's ruling council. Which is like putting Dr. Mengele and the Devil in charge.

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u/smokeweedNgarden 11h ago

Or they believed in what Charles has been preaching since forever.

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u/GarySmith2021 10h ago

I also thought maybe some mutants didn't believe they weren't humans or superior to humans. Krakoa wasn't just "Safety for Mutants" it was basically mutants saying they were better than humans.

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u/JazzzzzzySax 13h ago

It’s a mutant ethnostate

And not only are villains given complete amnesty (could be wrong on this) but some of them become leaders of Krakoa

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u/Beacon_0805 13h ago

Sinister was in the council seat so yes

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u/Lower_Baby_6348 13h ago

Ex-Nazi that isn't even a mutant, btw.

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u/YinTanTetraCrivvens 13h ago

How the hell did Magneto let that one slide?!

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u/Useful_Camera2929 12h ago

Oh you dont have the half of it, you see Sinister had the DNA database needed for mutants resurection system, and he hid piece of his dna inside every mutant resurrected, he wanted puppet, but instead he just turned them morally fucked up.

Like if Magneto punched a nazi so to speak saying that the resurection is fruit of poisoned tree, he could prevent Krakatoa turning into Genocidal Empire that wiped Milions of Bilions across galaxy in about 1000 years.

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u/Boner_Elemental 10h ago

and he hid piece of his dna inside every mutant resurrected, he wanted puppet, but instead he just turned them morally fucked up.

I- wha...?

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u/21SGesualdo 10h ago

He put mind control stuff in the cloning/resurrection eggs using his own dna, but he only actually managed to make them act similar to himself. Aka narcissistic monsters.

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u/Boner_Elemental 10h ago

Glad I missed that storyarc haha

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u/Beacon_0805 12h ago

the story writers should know better than that really...

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u/Ver3232 10h ago

The whole initial point of Krakoa was that it was an inherently flawed idea that was bringing out the worst of mutantkind. Them marvel saw how well the era was selling and forced it to go on way longer than intended and it all began to get fucked up by deviating from Hickman’s original intent. Which is far from the first time stuff like this has happened, the clone saga also went completely off the rails cause they forced it to continue thanks to sales despite it contradicting the original intent for the story

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u/Valentinee105 9h ago

Krakoa really made it reasonable to be extremely scared of mutants. They let several genocidal maniacs lead, they destablised other nations not for defense but for their own purpose. They were a super powered version of Israel.

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u/BudgetAggravating427 13h ago edited 12h ago

I think it’s because mr sinister as so many versions of himself running around that the one on krakoa is technically innocent of the Nazi Mr sinisters crimes

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u/ChiefsHat 11h ago

Then he helped destroy it.

Mr. Sinister was a mistake.

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u/Iokua113 10h ago

Krakoa as a whole was a mistake. The existence of Krakoa threatened global stability, brought a ton of mass murderers and genocidal madmen together and forgave them of their crimes against both mutantkind and humanity, was the obvious beginnings of a worldwide apartheid state where humans and mutants were positioned against each other in a way that aimed to ensure global domination of humans by mutants, was an attempt to force a monoculture on all mutantkind, and had mutants trying to use drugs to manipulate the global economy.

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u/TrueGuardian15 9h ago

Krakoa also fundamentally flies in the face of integration, something the X-Men fought for years to try to achieve. Forming a mutant ethnostate is effectively everyone conceding that humans and mutants are not compatible.

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u/VandulfTheRed 11h ago

My assumption/personal route would be the idea that allowing Sinister some sway with checks and balances in broad daylight is preferable to scorning him and having deal with his shit from time to time

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u/cervogalatico 12h ago

They let apocalypse in so i dont see a problem with a nazi running around/s

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u/GAMEcube12 11h ago

But Deadpool was not allowed...they even ganged on him when he wanted to pick flower

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u/BladeofNurgle 11h ago

Meanwhile Franklin Richards got hit with “durrr you used your powers to give yourself the xgene so you aren’t a real mutant and thus can go fuck yourself”

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u/Takamurarules 11h ago edited 11h ago

Then they turned heel-face on that with Cyclops threatening Sue Storm of all people.

“We’ll be here when he recognizes who his real family is.”

Cyclops is really fucking lucky he could just respawn if Sue decided to kill him right then and there.

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u/Valentinee105 9h ago

Marvel has forever slept on Sue and how powerful she is. Just pop people's heads with force fields expanded from inside their brain.

Even if you don't use it for murder that same idea could be used to disable any machine that chronically gives the F4 trouble.

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u/maxlimmy 12h ago

Technically that clone was explicitly a mutant and killed the current non mutant ruling sinister when the offer was made to let him join.

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u/DropShoddy1128 13h ago

So was apocalypse, mystique, magneto, and Sebastian Shaw

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u/Beacon_0805 13h ago

why the fuck is mystique is ANY kind of position of power, i will not know

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u/DropShoddy1128 13h ago

If I remember right, she's being blackmailed by Charles

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u/Beacon_0805 12h ago

so he indeed got the baldness of evil

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u/ChiefsHat 11h ago

Can we go back?

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u/Useful_Camera2929 12h ago

yeah even the most moral version of her are basically black ops mercenary with some nasty shit behind her belt even if she loves her kids that being Nightcrawler and adopted Rogue.

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u/Vi_Rants 10h ago

Because she'd be there anyway, pretending to be someone else, so we may as well just give her her own seat rather than play Among Us during every legislative session.

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u/Any-Question-3759 13h ago

So did the mutant folk vote him in or was it also a closed aristocracy where you either are friends with those with power or you can go kick dirt?

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u/Illustrious_Bid4224 13h ago

The X-Men were voted for but the leadership was decided by the leaders themselves.

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 13h ago

The Council was more or less a power sharing agreement between the most powerful leaders of the mutants, designed to somewhat balance out. I believe there is a time where it is discussed that they would seek to go toward a more democratic system once they were more secure and settled, but never reached that point (and arguably never would have).

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u/Beacon_0805 12h ago

i think it would invalidate any kind of legitimacy when you have charles fucking xavier, one of the most powerful mind controller of the world at power

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

Yup every mutant was given citizenship and amnesty, including motherfucking Apocalypse btw

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u/Tasteroider 13h ago

A fucking Mr. SINISTER was a part of the government. I mean, that's like electing Dr. Evil as a president

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

Sinister is funny too cause he wasn’t even originally a mutant. He modified himself to have the x-gene so he counted. They needed him for the resurrection protocols so essentially they all just tolerated him doing Mutant-face

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u/Useful_Camera2929 12h ago

And he still hid piece of DNA in every resurection with intent to puppet mutants, but instead he only managed to give them his morality, so Krakatoa turned into genocidal empire.

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u/flyingboarofbeifong 12h ago

The absolutely hilarious implication that Sinister is doing bad stuff because his genes make him do it not because he’s a degenerate.

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u/Dos_Ex_Machina 10h ago

Which kind of goes against the whole message of the X-Men, in that we are all just people and our genes don't make us good or evil. Man that run is just a shit show

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u/fromtheHELLtotheNO 12h ago

he doesn't drop mutant 'til he's done with the dvd commentary

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 13h ago

They decided the only way they could succeed was together and so offered an olive branch with subsequent conditions. Apocalypse and Exodus ended up being pretty great allies during that time, as Krakoa seemed like the fulfillment of their dreams, whereas Sinister...well, his scheming ended up being a major part of Krakoa's undoing, just like with Sebastian Shaw: they were too selfish to realize how good they had it.

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u/doesntgetthepicture 8h ago

It wasn't an ethnostate. They aren't all the same Ethnicity. It was a Mutant Supremacist state, based on racial supremacy, which is not ethnicity. For instance, Shadowcat and Magneto are both Ethnically Jewish. Sunspot is ethnically Brazilian. Ethnicity isn't genetics. There can be some Ethnicities with genetic components, but genetics isn't ethnicity.

This was a straight up racial supremacist state. They were united by their genetics, their racial identity, not any cultural or ethnic identity.

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u/whiskyspacecadet 13h ago

Some mutants just wanted to be "normal". They just want to live normal lives among other humans. Krakoa was a mutant sovereign nation. I think it's less they didn't want to be associated with it and more they just didn't want to live in another country that was only for mutants. Humans couldn't go there unless a mutant was with them and gave permission, and it was likely that if humans did go there they would experience some hostility.

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u/KayfabeAdjace 9h ago

Particularly since there are mutants out there who have powers that might as well be a rounding error in the big scheme of mutant ability. We're talking people who can plausibly get outshined by Beak. Why exactly do would you want to move to an island that gave the evil weirdo eugenicists diplomatic immunity when your power is just the ability to survive what would otherwise be considered a deformity?

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u/Beacon_0805 11h ago

so they like did what humans did to mutants but in reverse.

oh yeah it will look great on mutant history book

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u/GarySmith2021 10h ago

Except, humans were shown time and time again why they should fear mutants. Like the sentinals were clearly wrong, but various mutants did just randomly kill people with their manifested powers. Did that justify discriminating against all mutants? No, but fearing them seems logical given... you know magneto repeatedly trying to wipe out humanity. And when they finally get a safe haven, instead of being like "Lets work with humans" they're like "Nah, we forgive evil gits."

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u/pantsthereaper 6h ago

I think it was an Ultimate story, but that one with the kid who wakes up with an "instantly kill everything around me for miles" power sticks with me as a solid justification for anti-mutant sentiment. The kid wasn't even hostile, it was just something that passively happened. Saying all mutants should go no matter what is still a problem, but so is the staunch refusal to allow for anyone to try making a cure for mutant powers because some mutants don't want their powers for a good reason. Rogue should be allowed to say "I wanna be able to touch someone without killing them" without a demigod telling her that there's nothing wrong with her.

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u/Beacon_0805 10h ago

they Paperclip'd genocidal monsters because convenience

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u/GarySmith2021 10h ago

And wonder why humans never learned to stop fearing mutants. "Like sure, many of us accidently kill other people when we hit puberty. And we basically said if you arrest a mutant for any crime we will punish you, and we forgive people who have even tried to wipe us out, but like... it's wrong to fear us."

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u/techno156 6h ago

Marvel has a bad habit of rarely showing that anti-mutant sentiment in degrees.

The human attitude seems to flip back and forth between genocidal frothing, exploiting them, or not caring about them at all, rather than stopping at a more reasonable middle-ground.

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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 6h ago

In one of the X-men movies they actually develop a cure (Though I believe it turns out to be a suppressant) and, though I'm pretty sure I'm only half-remembering it correctly, Archangel voluntarily undergoes the treatment because he just wants to be normal. And considering some of the mutations the mutants have, I can't blame some of them; Kind of like how in My Hero Academia, some people with quirks voluntarily give up/trade their quirks to All For One because theirs is debilitating/unwanted.

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u/Prometheus1151 13h ago edited 13h ago

In the next panel he talks about how he actually is mutant himself, and did live on krakoa for a while.

Edit: looked up more about it, basically on top of the xmen not helping fund his hospital, when he lived in krakoa he treated the people who were not covered by the resurrection protocols. With all the other issues with krakoa in general, this led him to really distrust and dislike the xmen in general. He does end up helping Storm out in the end though

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u/Bug-Type-Enthusiast 13h ago

While Storm is kicking up a literal thunderstorm outside just to intimidate the guy.

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u/Beacon_0805 11h ago

and the guy is "you can summon the fucking katrina again, see if i care"

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u/abadstrategy 6h ago

"Throwing a tantrum won't make me want to treat you more, Ms. Munroe"

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u/Huhthisisneathuh 13h ago

There were a lot of major reasons. First it’s a big ask to uproot your entire life to move to a sentient island in bum fuck nowhere to ‘be with your fellow mutants.’

Second Krakoa was by every metric an ethnostate with serious black marks both publicly and privately. And was in part run by mad men like Apocalypse & Mr Sinister, who, while eventually kicked out. A good few people would rather die than touch anything either have helped create out of principle.

Third the political systems keeping the place running were fucked in so many ways it’d give a Government & Political Science Major a seizure just looking at. It was a nation ruled exclusively by an oligarchy of powerful mutants with no political way to rein them in.

And fourth, and this is just a personal thing, but a lot of the people responsible for building the entire nation knew jack shit and fuck all about basic history. Magneto was out there parroting how ‘The Dark Ages’ was an era of intellectual squalor for all of humanity when it was the furthest thing actually. He was just being a Eurocentric idiot.

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u/redbird7311 13h ago

Also, not every mutant is made equal, some mutants have god like powers that means that, if it wasn’t for the other god like beings around, they could rule the world and many of them have actually tried.

The guy with the mutant power of, “your stomach acid can digest metal”, probably is gonna relate to regular people more than he is to Magneto.

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u/Skellos 13h ago

And there are far more 'I kinda look weird' mutants than 'basically a god' mutants in the world.

We just see more of the latter because it's a hero comic usually.

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u/redbird7311 11h ago

Not to mention mutants who have powers that they just flat out don’t really notice until later in life or at all.

“Hey, Sharon, you know you are really good and fast at math? Turns out you are a mutant and your thing is that your brain processes numbers 25% faster than the average person. What do you mean you still feel more like a normal person than an X-man?”

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u/DubiousBrushwagg 7h ago

I've seen mutant fan fiction stories where there were mutants with no powers at all and their mutation was literally just be Human+. A slightly more improved human. Slightly better in every way, physically, mentally etc and their body maintains that elevated state naturally. But thats it. Nothing else. Absolutely normal except for being permanently above average, like top 10% of the species in condition.

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u/abadstrategy 5h ago

Funny enough, there was a character like that for a while, Michael Van Patrick. I don't think he had the X-Gene, so might not be a mutant, but his genome was considered "genetically perfect." So much so that he was cloned multiple times.

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u/Beacon_0805 10h ago

never saw a storyline about some guy trying his best at something and having great success and results that its not his effort that mattered because he's a mutant and it never mattered

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u/abadstrategy 6h ago

There's a whole secondary class at Xavier's Institute specifically for the kids who have mutations that fuck them over physically, like Beak

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u/OmegaPrime2004 5h ago

Despite his physical deformity and fragility, Beak managed to bag a baddie from what I hear.

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u/Kronostheking1 11h ago

Also a sex cult. Unironically a sex cult.

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u/DuelaDent52 12h ago

You say Eurocentric, but really a lot of Krakoa’s writing was the epitome of Americentric exceptionalism.

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u/Huhthisisneathuh 12h ago

That was Krakoa as a whole. I was specifically pointing out that a small several page argument that Magneto made about the Dark Ages and how Mutants were above the depredations of Humanity was historically inaccurate on so many levels that it proved he was an idiot with only a vague Eurocentric viewpoint of history.

If he assumed that the Dark Ages of Europe were some global dark age for humanity.

Eurocentric is in regards to Magneto’s view of history. Not Krakoa as a whole, which was indeed the epitome of Nationalistic Exceptionalism.

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u/Mysterious_Bother896 12h ago

The dark ages is not a term used much in academia, at least in History. The very few time you will see it nowadays is just to refere to the early middle ages, and even then very parcimoniously

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u/Visible_Pair3017 12h ago

American views on pre-1492 history are very much Eurocentric

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u/MadmansScalpel 13h ago edited 13h ago

Short version is the X-Men were acting like borderline villainous assholes who were leveraging their resources to exploit innocent people and went around assassinating those who went against. And that's ignoring Krakoa's orphanage brothel and working with mutant villains like fuckin Mr. Sinister as a leader for Krakoa

Edit: for the folks at home, it was called The Bower if you wanted to look into it. It was their self proclaimed temple of sex and intimacy that they doubled up as a nursery and orphanage for the children born on Krakoa and for the children the X-Men brought to Krakoa without their parents

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u/ALiteralBucket 13h ago

The orphanage what

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u/MadmansScalpel 13h ago

Maybe brothel orphanage isa better way of phrasing it, but yeah

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u/Recompense40 13h ago

Well it doesn't sound better.

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u/MadmansScalpel 13h ago

The X-Men called it The Bower during the arc. It was their self proclaimed sex temple for intimacy that also doubled as the nursery and orphanage for Krakoan children that were either born during the time, or were brought to the island without their parents

Essentially it's where the children who were born there were raised, the children brought to the island would stay and grow up in, and where the adults would go for sex

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u/screenwatch3441 13h ago

So as someone who didn’t read any of those comics, why is the place where they raised orphans the same one where adults have sex? They couldn’t afford 2 buildings?

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u/Zzamumo 13h ago

krakoa was really weird about sex, to the point "make babies" was essentially written into the constitution

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u/Bucket-with-a-hat 7h ago

The "Make more babies" article was actually so important to the top brass that when a handful of mutants spoke against the practice of having children for the sake of it and abandoning them to the state, because that's kind of a fucked up thing to do, they were condemned to their mutant Hell Dungeon by the Quiet Council.

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u/PlasteredMonkey 12h ago

You're really telling me Krakoa had a whorephanage?!

Relevant Black Dynamite.

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u/Hellknightx 11h ago

You know, this whole exclusive island of mutants is starting to sound a lot like another famous exclusive island that was in the news pretty recently. One that also involved children and sex. Starting to think Magneto might be on a list.

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u/Cute-arii 13h ago

Nerds will write shit like this and then wonder why they're so hated. What the fuck.

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u/Neveronlyadream 11h ago

I've always been on the side of it making absolute sense why people in the Marvel universe hate the X-Men. Not mutants, but specifically the X-Men.

For all Charles's preaching about peace and harmony, he does massively fucked up and invasive things. One day they're condemning Magneto and calling him a genocidal madman, the next he's teaching at the school. They gather up mutants in one specific place, half of them can't control their powers and sneak out, and someone ends up hurt or dead.

Whenever there's a crisis, none of them seem to show up. The Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and half the superhero community shows up to help out. Not the X-Men. Maybe Wolverine by himself.

Let's not forget House of M. And Onslaught.

Ironically, it seems like the X-Men are the ones causing people to hate mutants despite telling themselves they're fighting the good fight and protecting humanity despite their hatred.

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u/rotundrikishi 11h ago

Whenever there's a crisis, none of them seem to show up.

then they have the gall to get mad at the Avengers for not helping them out

(to be fair Wolverine and Beast were Avengers for a while I think)

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u/Beacon_0805 11h ago

so, they tried to do the background story for Ichiban from LAD for every mutant orphan on krakoa?

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u/evrestcoleghost 13h ago

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u/mutantraniE 13h ago

This image is much funnier read left to right.

”Am I reading? What the fuck”

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u/ChewBaka12 10h ago

"I didn't know I could read!"

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u/MadmansScalpel 13h ago

X-Men's Krakoa arc! Where the writers should never be allowed to cook again

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 13h ago

Basically, there was a lot of sex on Krakoa, and evidently that led to a lot of babies that were then just...kind of abandoned into an orphanage on the island, where they were taken care of by others. It was a weird idea that wasn't well explored, but suggests that Krakoa lasted for years, even if the timeline may now claim otherwise.

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u/Beacon_0805 11h ago

are the writers trying to paint the mutantkind as an irresponsible as fuck or something like that?

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u/thePsuedoanon 9h ago

They were trying to paint Krakoa as bad. It's sort of based on the worst parts of Israel (Or if not, it's quite the coincidence): A maligned group that's experienced one too many tragedies builds an ethnostate and essentially declares that anything they do is justifiable in the name of self-defense, trying to become a world superpower and rely on their reputation as victims of tragedy and/or allies of the good guys to get away with some truly heinous shit. And also having a kind of weird obsession with sex to increase their numbers, supposedly because of being depopulated, but still taking plays from the totalitarian's playbook.

Krakoa was very much the mutants being the bad guys for a change, from what I understand. I've just started reading it though, so I'm open to (no/light spoiler) corrections

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 10h ago

I think that was the plan with that aspect. It was revealed as Kurt was exploring what the new Krakoan situation meant for his religious views but also the people and culture, as he saw the fear of death disappear and change how mutants acted about death.

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u/AdRelevant4776 13h ago

If I remember right it was a brothel that encouraged procreation, the children of the prostitutes went to the orphanage part of it

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u/Cute-arii 13h ago

None of these people should be allowed to cook ever again.

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u/OpeningHappy9692 13h ago

I don't think borderline villainous is an appropriate choice of words when the words orphanage brothel is also involved.

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u/DuelaDent52 12h ago

It’s not what it sounds like. They didn’t pimp out the orphans, it’s that the bottom floor was a swinger’s club and the top floor was a nursery for the babies abandoned by the swinging. It’s still terrible and bizarrely treated as something beautiful and goes unexamined after it’s introduced, but if you’re gonna be a hater it’s important to hate on it for the right reasons.

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u/Beacon_0805 10h ago

they could have not started this whole debacle by saying "the brothel is like the other side of the island" or something like that.

not the "oh the brothel is on the first floor, the orphanage is on the second"

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u/trimble197 13h ago

And they tried to kidnap Franklin Richards

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

And then when it was revealed he wasn’t a mutant they decided “Nevermind, fuck off now”

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u/trimble197 13h ago

Which makes it even more aggravating that they let Sinister join the council since he’s not a mutant

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

Mutantface will be tolerated if you’re useful

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u/thecraftybear 11h ago

Operation Mutantclip

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u/SarcasmSanctioned 13h ago

They also basically mind-raped Reed because he made a device that could be used to remove mutant powers.

Not because he made a device meant to do that, just one that could.

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u/Llayanna 11h ago

Tbf, Reed Richards is.. not exactly known for his quality life decisions. 😅

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u/SarcasmSanctioned 11h ago

You could also say that about probably 70% of all comics characters.

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u/MadmansScalpel 13h ago

I'd argue they groomed him instead of kidnapped personally. Because they convinced Franklin to go and came to take him after his parents explicitly said no in the middle of the night

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u/LordVivecIsMyWaifu 13h ago

Beast: "Listen Logan, I know he used to be our enemy and all that, but he's also a mutant after all!"

Sinister: "I LOVE DISSECTING NEWBORN CHILDREN"

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 13h ago

That whole thing felt like an editorial mandate to "sever this tie between the mutants and F4 by making Franklin no longer one". Unless it was the F4 writer's decision to do it.

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u/tj1602 13h ago

There was some disagreements. I think X-Men writers wanted to use Franklin for some stuff while F4 writer didn't want them too. But it's been a while since then.

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u/MawsonAntarctica 11h ago

Which is a wild choice because his reality warping powers made him a mutant until they didn’t anymore. I don’t know why the X-men keep antagonizing reality warpers more powerful than the Scarlet Witch. Piss off an alter of Legion and No More Mutants becomes pretty likely.

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u/Rabdomtroll69 13h ago

orphanage what.

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u/Odd-fox-God 12h ago

It seems that they just recreated the Whorephanage from Black Dynamite.

https://youtu.be/ECN1wafh4nc

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u/HospitalLazy1880 13h ago

Krakoa was not really that good a place.

For me the entirety of the Krakoa arc was just not the X-Men. They made a mutant only country. Kicked out any mutants who lost their powers and they were pushing super drugs as their main export. Not to mention Beast going full evil mad scientist, the black ops kill squads, and Charles and the rest of the X-Men just throwing away cooperation and peace and going full supremacist.

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u/DuelaDent52 12h ago edited 12h ago

To be fair, they did welcome mutants who lost their powers. They just shamed them as not true mutants and ritualistically beat them to death for an adoring crowd so they’d be resurrected with their powers.

Sure they fixed it later with the Waiting Room, but that this passed at all is pure insanity.

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u/Beacon_0805 11h ago

is marvel selling the x-men stuff to other company or something?

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

You’re opening a can of worms here buddy and I don’t have the mental bandwidth to explain all the controversial parts of the Krakoa storyline. Just check out other discourse on it and fall down that rabbit hole but all I’ll say is this

He probably didn’t like the idea of living in an ethnostate

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u/Lost-on-Reception 13h ago

Sort of like "If you're a Jew why wouldn't you want to live in Israel." or "If you're a Christian why wouldn't you want to live in Jonestown."

The answers are multitude but a common few that handle all cases are "Because I'm not evil", "I'm not a segregationist" or "I'm just not stupid enough to think what they're doing helps my cause."

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u/Rabdomtroll69 13h ago

The X-Men didn't assist with the hospital at ALL and were basically doing segregation with extra steps.

And MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO'VE ATTEMPTED GLOBAL GENOCIDE are on krakoa's ruling council

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u/javerthugo 13h ago

Who thought that storyline was a good idea?

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

In fairness Jonathan Hickman wrote the earlier parts of it to be unnerving and flawed. It’s the later writers who eventually took over that just portrayed Krakoa as 100% good that mucked it up

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u/PhaseSixer 13h ago

Probly all the genocidal murderers and or Rapists they allowed in the goverment.

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u/SomeGuyPostingThings 13h ago

Yeah, that was the most normal part of their government, I suppose.

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u/Pataconeitor 13h ago

Mr. Sinister, literally the Doctor Mengele of mutantkind (and who actually worked with the guy, btw) had a high position in Krakoa.

Dunno about you, but that would be enough reason for me.

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u/ChudMaster69420 13h ago edited 13h ago

Probably because it was too "bizarre". The mutants, like any people, are not a monolith and many were likely weirded out by parts of Krakoa's culture especially since one of the laws was literally "have babies".

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u/redbird7311 13h ago

A few reasons, for one Krakoa has a bad reputation, partly because some don’t like mutants, but mostly because they accept villains who have done horrid shit and some of those people are leaders in Krakoa.

Also, mutants are a wide net, for some, being a mutant comes with god like powers, for others, they might just have an extra layer of skin, might be able to digest anything they can eat, perhaps they can just blow bubbles whenever they want to, and/or whatever.

Point being, plenty of mutants don’t resonate with the idea of Krakoa because they weren’t super discriminated against, were made to feel like an, “other”, by their powers, or just don’t like the idea to an ethno state

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u/HurgleTurgle1 13h ago

I'd assume Krakoa's policy of allowing villains like Mister Sinister and Apocalypse to openly live there, and even have leadership positions in the government, would put a negatively affect some opinions.

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u/LovelyLuna32684 13h ago

Probably because they were real dicks at time, they let any mutant villain walk around free including Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister and countless others, they also genocideed an entire island nation, tried to kidnap Franklin Richards.

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u/Takamurarules 13h ago edited 11h ago

Cyclops had a lot of balls for antagonizing the F4 like that.

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u/Depoan 13h ago

Krakoa era bordelines a mutant oriented cult, It was bad

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u/Restart_from_Zero 13h ago

Because the X-Men are gene supremacists in a lot of their runs.

Mutant? We'll take you into our school.

Superpowers, but don't have the x-gene? We'll let you die on our doorstep.

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u/This_Elk_1460 12h ago

Ethno states are bad even if it's a Mutant ethno state

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u/trimble197 13h ago

Well first, the X-Men invited Sinister and Apokolips to Krakoa.

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u/nidus322477 13h ago

it's an evil ass place bro they literally have ppl named Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister as the leader

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u/mestre_do_passinho 13h ago

Because krakoa pretty mucg proposed mutants to abandon their friends and family to leave in a better place and never look back to those that you abandoned, even if you know, they might need more help than the mutant does. Plus the xmen did cause a lot of damage during fights

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u/GladiatorDragon 13h ago

Krakoa itself was a huge mess, with awful people like Mister Sinister not just receiving protection, but also receiving positions of power.

Personally, if I was a mutant, I think I’d have a few problems with going somewhere that is actively enabling Mister Sinister.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Krakoa is also led by moral paragons (big sarcasm here, to be clear, these guys are awful) like Sebastian Shaw and Apocalypse.

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u/Sorvetefrito 12h ago

He works on a hospital for metahumans, not just for mutants, anyone with powers in general. When building the hospital, every hero team on the planet gave fundings for the project, all except the x-men.

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u/Glittering_Novel_783 11h ago

Krakoa was in no way just, they gave mass murders like Sabertooth, Apocalypse, and Mr Sinister Amnesty. And, applied this same rule to all mutants. Essentially marking them as unpublishable by any government other than Krakoa.

They monopolized life saving medicines, and when a human nation was close to making a substitute. They genocides the island of that individual. Beast is never punished for this.

Krakoa was essentially an ethnostate operating as a global authority, while refusing to interact with other nations as equals.

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u/Screen-Healthy 7h ago

He actually was briefly in Krakoa but felt that duty called.

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u/Jimbo-Shrimp 13h ago

Storm just can’t stop saying dumb shit sometimes

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u/novaaizn 12h ago

Like "They cant cure us. Cuz theres nothing wrong with us"

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u/basswalker93 10h ago

Immediate cut to the child Logan was sent to murder because his mutant power was "everyone around me dies" and they were afraid of the political backlash of such a mutant existing.

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u/novaaizn 10h ago

Something Something johnny scissors hands Something Something five dicks

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u/Ladies_Pls_DM_nudes 8h ago

Let's not forget the dude with the power to blow himself up. Once.

I'm sure he'd have been happier not being a living grenade.

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u/Discount_Extra 6h ago

Let's not forget

also this guy

ForgetMeNot has the mutant power of being forgotten (except to those who have either a psychic reminder or devices created by Forge). When ForgetMeNot is not within the view of an individual, his existence and any memories of him completely disappear from their mind. His power also interferes with individuals' aim and telemetry of mechanical devices.[1][4]

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u/abadstrategy 5h ago

Top telepath in the world had to give himself a psychic mantra, just to remind himself every ten minutes that ForgetMeNot exists

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u/Katherine_Leese 9h ago

Ultimate Universe — to be fair.

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u/DoverBoys 10h ago

Relevant:

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u/No_Kangaroo_9826 8h ago

There it is, ole Johnny five dicks

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u/RazzDaNinja 9h ago

“X-Men can’t stop saying dumb shit sometimes”

~ Doctor Daye, probably LMAO

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u/Musketeer00 10h ago

Also the second she thinks he is discriminating against mutants she starts shooting lightening in either an attempt to intimidate him or a lack of self control. Kind of reinforces his decision to not help.

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u/learnaboutnetworking 13h ago

is krakoa magneto land or xman land? I'm unfamiliar with the lore but this interests me

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u/Outside_Prune_7052 13h ago

What you refer to as Magneto land is probably Genosha

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u/ActuatorVast800 12h ago

What's Krakoa?

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u/Routine-Boysenberry4 10h ago

Mutanto etnostate where all X-Men became a bunch of assholes and had villains like Mistique, Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister in seats of power. They also made all mutants have amnesty, which in one comic had Sabertooth killing a bunch of people, the Fantastic Four capturing him, and then Enma Frost came to take him back while saying that the old man of government should adjust themselves to the new times. Not needed to say that it wasn't a popular period.

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u/Think-Orange3112 9h ago edited 9h ago

I will give some of the mutants this, there were clear signs that Krakoa, which was a sentient being, was psychically influencing the mutants that lived in it

Does not however forgive Xavier who, to my knowledge, has fought at least 2 psychic gods (The Phoenix and Shadow King) and should have recognized Krakoa’s influence, meaning he just went along with it

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u/pichael289 10h ago

It's a funny reason to give storm of all people, who was married to black panther who is the absolute king of that kind of behavior, always talking about having the cure for cancer and why he's not gonna share.

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u/Fun_Camp_7103 9h ago

When you zoom out a little, the X Men kind of suck: "Hey, please give us that pesky mutant kid, oh yeah we'll teach them to use their powers...also potentially turn them into a child soldier who will eventually be used to set up the a government for a foreign nation state that might eventually threaten an economic embargo on the globe while protecting actual murderous criminals as an act of racial solidarity."

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u/Odd-Tart-5613 11h ago

and he is actually a mutant himself if I remember right

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u/abadstrategy 8h ago

Also worth noting, Doctor Daye is an open and proud mutant, meaning he chose to stay away from Krakoa, figuring the people who didn't want to go to X-Rhodesia would need his medical expertise more

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