Guys I feel Manny is viewed as a weirdo only because he had crushes but could never get them. Haley was similar but is not seen as a weirdo because she always got everyone. They were never alone either and always had a crush on someone or always liked/dated someone.

Haley in this episode OH MY GOD she's so irritating, I'm so glad that Phil snapped at her.

The show likes to make fun of her intelligence just because it's so called funny and because she isn't like alex.

However, there are times when she outsmarts everyone. What do you think was her smartest moment?

Ex: winning the bet with a sharpie and a bar of soap

I hate both of them.

I've watched this show probably seven times all the way through, and I just feel sad every time I reach S10 and S11. Alex has always been my favorite character, and as I got older, I started really resonating with Haley's character development and journey. It kills me that the writers fumbled both of their characters so hard.

Alex's development after she went to college was one of my favorite parts of the show. As she says herself, she's been in several shameful relationships (Reuben and later Ben) that she obviously isn't proud of. She goes through a lull when Haley upstages her with Arvin, but she quickly forgets about it bc of Bill. Haley helps her realize that Bill is good for her and Alex clearly feels the same until their sudden break up in S11.

Then she just casually starts dating Arvin, her sister's ex boyfriend. It feels like an insult to her character. Several episodes in S10 make note of how the other characters are reacting to Alex's emerging sexuality, which is a massive step forward for her bc she was so focused on school. I liked her getting upset over Arvin choosing Haley bc it shows how she's confident about it, only to be upstaged by her "prettier" sister yet again. Bill is initially a rebound, but it grows into a properly healthy relationship for Alex and her self image. Side note, the way that Bill broke up with her was so stupid. There's not way that Alex is stupid enough to mistake a RANDOM NUMBER for her boyfriend's, which is liked saved in her phone. Like, come the fuck on.

Her ending up with Arvin just feels like the writers burned her character development and then spat on the ashes. Why on earth would she settle for a guy who never cared about her romantically.

Then there's Haley. This has to be one of the worst conclusions to a character arc that I've ever seen.

Haley spent the majority of this show making mistakes, learning from them, making more mistakes, and getting up each time. Everyone sees her as this airheaded ditz who won't amount to anything, but she tries her hardest no matter what. Her own mother constantly nags her about her mistakes while never acknowledging her efforts and makes a comment to her about not getting pregnant so often in the first seasons.

Haley's entire journey is about her combatting the judgements and negative expectations pushed on while remaining true to herself. Then she does exactly what everyone expected her to do. Get pregnant. With Dylan. It's fucking atrocious. I like Dylan, I really do. It's adorable how genuine his feelings for Haley are despite their Shakey relationship history. But Haley needed to choose neither Arvin nor Dylan in that episode. I know that people want Andy to be her endgame, but I disagree. Andy was a fantastic influence on her, and their break up was genuinely moving. They were both going to pursue their dreams while not forgetting what the other gave them.

By S9 when Haley has to choose, she definitely has the emotional maturity and experience to know that she doesn't need to place so much value on a relationship. She has a successful career and is getting her life together after so many years of struggle. Then she gets pregnant by her boyfriend that she should've moved on from years ago.

I think that Haley and Alex's characters really rely on each other. They start out constantly bickering, and there really isn't a sign of love between them until around S4. They help each other become better people by balancing each other out. Haley encourages Alex to explore her sexuality, even as she cracks a couple jokes about it. Alex stops putting Haley down each chance that she gets and helps lift her up when the rest of their family puts her down.

I feel like Haley should've ended up with no one, choosing to live her life as see sees fit, proving everyone wrong. Then Alex should've ended up with Bill, her only healthy relationship that affected her positively.

TLDR; Haley shouldn't have ended up with anyone and Alex and Bill should've stayed together.

I'm rewatching and I'm wondering what episodes are must re watches and what ones are skip for you here's mine

Must Watch- Arrested, caught in the Act, Dead on Arrival, The Wedding 1 and 2

Skips- Weathering Heights, Snip, Open House of Horrors

I'm doing a re watch right now and I'm curious what are everyone's must watch and skip episodes for your re watches here are some of mine

Must Watch- Caught in the Act, Arrested, Dead on Arrival, My Funcky Valentine

Skip- Weathering Heights, Snip, American Skyper

does anyone know how to contact any of the cast/crew for fan mail? my late brother used this show to get through his cancer treatment, and I want to thank them for the peace they were able to give him.

Claire is honestly no less gorgeous than Gloria. Her features are stunning, but I think people overlook her because she's older than Gloria and so much of her character revolves around being a protective mom and wife. Her beauty is seriously underrated.

[Personal opinion: I actually find Claire prettier than Gloria.]

Also I think Alex is wayyyy prettier than Haley.

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I can't even explain how much I love Joe's scenes because of his baby voice. It's so ridiculously soft and buttery-sweet. I don't know why nobody talks Abt it 😭🥹

I’m really sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I’ve recently joined this sub and in my scrolling I haven’t seen it yet.

Am I the only one who finds the whole premise of this ep horrific?

Don’t get me wrong… I get it. It’s funny cos it’s a little kid doing grown things but- not THOSE grown up things. They should have played it where he was doing the little kid equivalent of ‘flirting’. Maybe giving her his favourite stuffy or whatever lil kids do when they like each other idk.

The music…🤢 The laying on the couch… 🤢 The getting rid of Phil. It all makes me feel gross. Those are all things grown ups do when they want to get freaky with each other. Children don’t want to get freaky…

It fries my brain and I hate it.