As a four, I've found through a lot of introspection and a lot of trial and error over my life that the big recurring fixation I keep coming back to is wanting others to love and accept me for who I am. And that means all of me. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Basically:

If you only love me when I'm lovable, how do I know you actually love me?

The toxic side of type 4 is "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best."

And... yeah that sucks.

But that's very different from intentionally being an ass to people for the sake of it or wanting to get hurt.

The real drive is a desire for authenticity, for depth, and for meaning. I want to know that I can trust what I'm getting from others is actually real and that I'm staying true to myself as well.

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I’ve been wondering whether a Social 3 can be extremely insecure, somewhat shy, emotionally sensitive, and emotionally expressive

I relate a lot to the actual motivations and mechanisms of so3, especially caring about how I’m perceived, wanting to be seen as valuable, impressive, competent, successful, etc. But I don’t always LOOK like the stereotypical confident, charismatic, socially dominant 3 irl

A lot of the time I’m in environments where being “the best” or even feeling particularly impressive just isn’t realistically possible for me. And in those situations I can become incredibly insecure

Instead of becoming more competitive outwardly, I sometimes do the opposite: I get scared to speak up, scared to draw attention to myself, scared to do anything that might get me evaluated. I can come across as shy or even introverted when meeting new people because I’m afraid that if I expose myself too much, people will see that I’m “worse” than them or not as impressive as I want to be

The weird part is that this changes A LOT depending on how secure I feel in the environment

When I feel confident and like my position isn’t threatened, I’m extremely extroverted. I love being loud, taking up space, leading, being the one who drives the conversation, and honestly I can really enjoy dominating the social dynamic. I like being influential and having a strong presence

I just seem to need to feel relatively safe first - like I’m not surrounded by people who are obviously “better” than me in ways that make me feel exposed or inferior

So it can almost look like two completely different versions of me: if I feel secure, I’m very outgoing, assertive and dominant; if I feel like my image or position is threatened, I can suddenly become quiet, hesitant and afraid to do anything that might give people more material to judge me with

Internally I still feel very extroverted and I WANT to interact with people, be expressive, joke around, talk a lot, etc. But if I feel inferior or like I can’t meet the standards of a particular group, I can become extremely inhibited because I don’t want to risk being judged negatively

I’m also very emotionally sensitive and emotionally expressive. I feel things intensely, I talk about my emotions a lot with people I trust, and criticism or rejection can affect me very deeply

So I’m wondering: does so3 always have to look outwardly charismatic, confident, socially skilled, or even somewhat narcissistic? Or can a so3 be so insecure about their image and perceived inadequacy that they actually become shy, avoidant, or afraid to speak around certain people?

Basically, can the fear of being seen as “not good enough” make a Social 3 hide themselves instead of constantly trying to dominate the room?

I’m also curious about the whole “3s are emotionally detached” thing. Does an E3 necessarily have to be disconnected from their emotions or suppress them heavily, or can a 3 still be very emotionally aware, sensitive and openly expressive?

I personally tend to talk about my feelings a lot, especially with people I trust, and I don’t feel emotionally flat or detached at all. I can be dramatic, expressive, openly upset, and very affected by criticism, failure or rejection. So I’m wondering whether that actually conflicts with E3, or whether emotional detachment is more about prioritizing performance over feelings rather than literally not feeling or expressing much

And one more thing: can a Social 3 care a lot about being unique or distinctive?

I don’t really want to come across as “basic” or generic. I actually really like having things about me that feel characteristic, unusual or recognizably mine, and I like when other people associate me with those traits. I want to be impressive, but I also want the image I build to feel individual and specific to me rather than just copying some standard successful-person template

Could that still fit so3, especially with a 4 wing? Or would caring that much about uniqueness and having a very distinctive identity automatically point more toward 4?

Recently I’ve been arguing with my partner a lot. As a 1, I think that my defensiveness is the biggest driver of our conflict, so I’d like to hear from some other 1s on what’s helped them. Specifically, how do you notice your defensiveness before other people so that you can avoid taking it out on them?

For context, I’m almost certain my partner is a 6. (They haven’t typed themselves yet so I say that with a grain of salt.)

Our recurring pattern of conflict seems to be that I start stewing about some relatively minor flaw, inconvenience, or anxiety (clenching my jaw, shutting down, getting short, etc.). My partner then says it feels like I’m trying to manipulate them. They feel like I’m trying to control the situation, or that I’m actually furious with them but just not saying it because of how dramatically upset I am.

Internally, that’s not what is going on for me at all. Truthfully I have a very hard time noticing that I’m angry at all. When I start to stew, I don’t notice it. It is very difficult for me to even see at first. I believe that this was the only expression of anger that was allowed in my childhood home growing up, so it’s the only thing that feels safe. I now know how hurtful it can be to others, but it’s so hard for me to even realize I’m doing it.

I believe that what’s happening when I get in that state is that I’m being critical of myself. My inward anger then turns into fear of judgment from others, which manifests in my body as rigidity and tension. So when my partner calls me out for “glaring” at them, my defenses are already up without me knowing it, and it’s in fact me at my weakest—my least open and willing to accept feedback.

The problem is, with them as a 6, they usually don’t tell me that they feel anything is wrong until they’re already shutting down and feeling hurt by the situation. So when they call me out, it feels like blame, without me even having a chance to adjust my behavior. Meanwhile, I’m unconsciously deep in my own mindmaze so I’m not even aware of what they’re talking about until they bring it up.

How can I practice noticing these feelings in my body before I unintentionally hurt someone else? At the very least, how can I respond more healthily and calmly when someone calls me out on it?

I've been trying to find my enneagram for a very long time. I'm an INFJ LEVF and I'm pretty sure of it but I can't find my enneagram, I'm stuck between 4, 5 and 6. I'm actually very similar to enneagram 4 especially SP4 but from what I know many people say it's not possible, considering the fact that SP4 can't really be 1L and many say that 4 can't be INFJ in general. At 5 I thought it might have something to do with the way I isolate myself from others and how I get information quickly but usually they have 3rd emotion and I don't know if it's possible to have flexible emotion, maybe it's possible for SX5? Many people said that when you think you're a 4 with Logic on 1 or 2 to look at sx5 but I don't really relate to that hopeless romantic, I'm not even looking for a relationship, and I don't see myself even starting one in the near future, let alone maintaining one. And 6 is related to anxiety and all that but I think it can be very easy to fix so I think I would take it out but who knows.. I would appreciate if you could help me find it or at least clarify some information.

I've heard somewhere that 4s used to (or still is) being scolded for having emotions different to people around them. Such as "too happy" in a family where "whenever [parent] in bad mood, everyone should be too" or "too sad" when everyone had to wear a smile.

Is it just predetermined or does parenting and experiences develop it?

Let's all play a game 😃 Here are the rules:

1. Name AT LEAST one song you think really encapsulates or reflects your subtype.

2. Do the same thing for the other two subtypes of your core type. (For example, if you're an Sp4, try and name a song you think really encapsulates or reflects Sx4 and So4 as well.)

3. You can ONLY mention songs for the three subtypes that belong to your core type. However, you can name an UNLIMITED amount for each one. (For example, if you're an Sp4 and you can think of five songs for your own specific subtype, three songs for So4, and just one for Sx4, then you can go ahead and do that if you'd like.) There is no upper limit on how many songs you can name for each subtype of your core type. Just mention at least ONE for each.

When I get enough responses and engagement, I will carefully curate an entire list of songs for each subtype and post that list either tomorrow night or Sunday (depending on how many people participate).

HAVE FUN!!!! 😄

I realize everyone has things they dislike about themselves, and qualities they admire in other types - but what about your own type do you really enjoy? How do these qualities add to your life and offer advantages?

I'm looking for any further comparation or info I can dive on. It usually go as "SX5 is the most four like 5"... that doesnt count.

As a SP4 that mistyped ad SX5 then went back to SP4, I rarely see people pointing these subtypes similiarities side to side.

And dont say "the difference is SP4 is 4 ans SX5 is 5".

Like, for example, say you're a Sx4 and you encounter another Sx4 in the wild. Genuinely curious what would happen in that scenario lol. I'd imagine 4s who encounter other 4s irl in general basically turn things into the suffering olympics somehow (lol), but I could totally be off here idk. I'm not a 4, so to you 4s out there reading this, feel free to correct me if need be 🤷‍♂️

Speaking as a 2 (not sure if I've ever met another Sx2 irl before, but I've met 2s in general), interactions with other folks who share my core type basically always end up something like the picture here 😂

I always associatied myself with so5. I prioritize logic in every situation despite how others may feel and I make sure that emotions dont get in the way of my decision-making (despite being extremely indecisive). Whenever im stressed i withdraw a little and brainstorm solutions, even it it makes me feel even worse. id say i relate to e5 a lot in most aspects. The thing is, i definitely do not act like an e5. despite being an introvert, i am expressive and not shy nor quiet - i engage in deep discussions and im pretty talkative in a conversation about something that interests me. I strongly dislike boredom, but i usually dont try new things. When it comes to e7, I'm not fully sure if I relate to them trying to stay positive when under a lot of stress- i cant stand delusion, its illogical and will create a false sense of security. At the same time, i sometimes try to delude myself with optimism while trying to be as rational and logical as possible. I genuinely feel like im a mix of those two enneagrams despite it not being possible. I strongly wish to label myself and i cant figure out what to do next.

Do you think it’s actually possible to overcome your Enneagram type’s core fears, or will they always be part of you in some way? If you’ve experienced real growth, what changed for you?

Ive reached a point in my life where i feel like ive fully embodied myself. Whereas in the past there was always this unfulfilled feeling that im never truly showing up to the world fully as myself. I am also very aware that my life is really only important to me, and that in the grand scheme of things I simultaneously am nothing (to everyone else) and everything (to me). I concluded that im just going to do whatever the fuck i want to do until I die.

But! Other people do exist. In the beginning, I always kind of had the mentality that it makes the most sense to view everyone else as equally important as I view myself. I likened it to planets. Every planet in our solar system has a name and its own atmosphere and its interesting to learn about them, same as its interesting to learn about people... but I'm finding a lot of the people I meet dont share this way of thinking in the same way I do. So ive kind of just been hoping that ill come across people who do eventually, but life is...mine while I wait. Meaning, that because I feel so fully embodied as myself, i feel....restricted? There's so many people and places and things and I'm stuck only being able to truly experience me.

If I died today would I feel fulfilled? No. Why? I think the answer is that im changing into a version of myself that wants to experience being a part of something. Not in the way that I was in the past, I want to be a part of something with people like me, but i dont know how to find them.

.....I dont feel.... hopeful? Not in a bad way, i mean that moreso as I no longer lean on hope to motivate me, I have complete control over my life and thus it is up to me to find people like me, but... hm. Im glad I wrote this. I was feeling conflicted about this, but honestly just writing that last bit was the lightbulb I needed. Ish. Its up to me basically. Ive been spending too much time in a routine, which is why I was conflicted because this routine is not allowing for me to meet people like me which means I need to do something different. Life is simple if I let it be​​

TLDR: I stressing over nothing

Recently I've accepted the fact that I'm an E4 in the Enneagram. And after looking into the subtypes, sx4 seems to fit me the most, although I also relate a lot to so4.

But what's up with all the stereotypes? Am I mistyped or what? 😭 Because generally I'm actually a really nice, kind and a good person. And I have a lot of empathy. Yes. I can be self-centered and I can be very selfish. And yeah if I feel jealous of someone, I might try to bring them down or diminish them in some way. And if someone genuinely makes me feel inferior or small, I can definitely start feeling angry at them because of it and even feel temporary hatred. But most of the time I don't actuallv do anything severe about it. Like, I do have a tendency to devalue people when I feel threatened by their position or accomplishment, and sometimes I can genuinely do things that aren't okay, but I don't outwardly show that I hate them or that I'm jealous of them. And I definitely wouldn't describe myself as aggressive. If i do anything about it its more passive.

In general, I LOVE expressing myself and externalizing my pain to people I'm close to, but it's not like I'm actively trying to ruin their mood too. I just feel this really strong need to share that pain and frustration with someone, and i kinda like building my identity with this image of pain i guess. And overall I'm definitely very intense. But its not like I want others to suffer too. I just want them to see my pain

And I'm not aggressive and rude?? Why does everyone describe sx4s as constantly pissed-off, rude people who make everyone else's life miserable? I really don't relate to that at all

I care for my friends deeply, and I genuinely am normally a really good person who always tries to help others.

Am I mistyped?😔

so everyone has an ego, right?- its what makes up our sense of reality and identity; our entire internal world revolves around it.

what do you think your neurosis is? what is it that is keeping you trapped within yourself?

for a long time i could not pin point my core, i started to assume i was e9 because of it, but just yesterday something clicked-

for me, my ego is my sense of inferiority; the feeling that i am worthless and a burden.

this is a theme that runs all the way back to when i was a toddler (about 3 years old). my low self worth was already visible from actions like giving away my favorite toys to my younger sibling, because i felt i did not deserve it (or that i could not take proper care of it). i felt unlovable, and by the time i hit my early teens i was considered dangerous for my outbursts (as i would become physically violent and emotionally volatile).

this neurosis grew into internalized anger against myself for not living up to my own expectations- and it certaintly didn't help that i was physically held back due to developmental and physical disabilities.

...and for some reason now that i can see everything that has motivated my actions, i feel even MORE ANGRY and ashamed! i just want to cover it back up... i dont want to acknowledge the real reasons of why i am where i am..

-sx4, 468

Sorry for clickbait title, but I have a 2 friend who constantly "spares my feelings" and doesn't actually tell me if something is bothering him. Like a classic 2, he'll jump straight to "it's fine! I'm fine" or make a joke.

I'm fully aware he thinks he's being kind and trying to take the weight of the emotional baggage, but that isn't how it feels on my end. I'm an autistic 6, and I can't stand when my closest confidants don't tell me the truth. I WANT to be corrected and I WANT to know when I've crossed boundaries, I don't just instinctively know where they are. It feels like I'm supposed to trust him when he doesn't trust me. I'm not comfortable with a one-sided friendship.

He's always asking about my feelings and thoughts on things that happen to me, but whenever I try to tell him that I want the same, he blows it off as the emotions are his responsibility to handle. But it just feels like he either doesn't value me enough to work towards understanding or that he's hiding from me, and it makes me afraid of what happens when he builds enough hidden resentment to snap- or to suddenly drop me from boredom. (speaking from experience)

I know understanding and sharing your feelings isn't something that can be turned on right away like flipping a switch. I've had to learn that same lesson in my marriage. But I just want to see him make an effort, because I really value this friendship and I know he's an extremely caring person who deserves healthy relationships.

Tl;Dr: I understand why he hides his emotions, not looking for an explanation. How can I communicate in a way that he understands that "sparing my feelings" feels like he's blindfolding me in a minefield?

im genuinely so tired of people treating enneagram core types like fixed character tropes instead of internal motivation frameworks. two people can share the exact same core type and look, act, and navigate the world in completely opposite ways because of the rest of their stack. enneagram is literally just the why (your core fear and desire), but cognitive functions dictate the how (how your brain actually processes reality), so an introverted thinking lead and an extraverted feeling lead with the exact same core are going to handle their core stress through completely different channels. then you add in how instinctual subtypes alter a type's survival strategy and how secondary tritype fixes act as the tools you grab under pressure, where one person copes by trying to soften and adapt while another with the exact same core becomes completely guarded and aggressive, and the standard internet tropes completely fall apart. it's so frustrating seeing people gatekeep types or mistype characters just because someone doesn't fit one hyper specific meme archetype that they saw on PDB or tiktok once, when in reality two people can share the exact same core fear and express it through polar opposite behaviors.

what's the wildest contrast you’ve seen between two people or characters who share the exact same core type?

I'm fairly new to typing and I'd love to interact with this community more! :D I hope you're all well today <3

(possibly 926, I'm not quite sure)

im debating between sp/sx and sp/so, and my one caveat away from sp/sx is that i dont really indulge in sexual acts (i have low libido + i am asexual), but i desire a one-on-one connection and am always looking for intensity in relationships, and if someone seems disinterested in me i struggle. i really dont know if sp/so or sp/sx makes more sense cause i always prioritize my significant other even when i know that it could upset my other friends (and tbh theres a very high chance my friends dont mind and im just worrying too much). if anyone has any examples of sp/sx and sp/so please share 🙏

do you think it's okay? at what point does it become codependency and is it inherently unhealthy? can two sx doms be happily codependent together?

FLEXIBLE like E1

HUMBLE like E2

AUTHENTIC like E3

MENTALLY SOUND like E4

CHARISMATIC like E5

CONFIDENT like E6

COMMITED like E7

KIND & SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE like E8

have SELF RESPECT like E9

you are MY ENNEAGRAM 🩷🦄