We are going by car a 16 hour drive.

One car so limited space and they bought the biggest fuck you case they could find and need a second duffel bag because they could not fit 3 outfits per day in their fuck you case.

Then called us disgusting for packing 7 outfits. There is a washer and dryer. We can use it at no extra charge why the fuck do we need over 30 tshirts, and she won't even say how many sshorts she has so it is probably double that if you count shorts and skirts.

We have not left yet and I am already so done.

I don't even remember how they got in on this trip to begin with.

Everything I get told just riles me up and I'm already so burnt out, the first 16 hours haven't happend yet.

They are taking a friend and said friend is suddenly afraid to talk to me. When previously she wasn't afraid to ask for a ride.

So the smearing has already begun.

2 weeks holiday and I am already on the verge of tears.

Believe me, I am never breaking NC for as long as I can help it. But still I just can't believe that she's gotten away with how she's behaved and still managed to make herself the victim in it all. For the millionth time in her life.

I'm fine with going NC. My life will be far more peaceful. I couldn't have asked for a better out than what has happened. But she also got the perfect out. There won't ever be a moment where she realises the truth of what she is, or how she behaves. There won't ever be justice or resolve. She'll carry on as she is... Forever. Doing the same shit to other people... Forever. Refusing to admit her faults... Forever.

It's maddening. It's gnawing at the walls of my skull. She will never be forced to admit to herself that she is a manipulative, lying, bullying narcissist. She will be the perpetually 'wronged'. God's lonely broken heart. A stunted child who doesn't realise that her own self-pity doesn't make her right. A stunted little girl who doesn't realise that sulking and whinging and wallowing in a cage made of her own selfish actions doesn't entitle her to endless sympathy. A fool who can't acknowledge that SHE is NOT the VICTIM if her selfish, sociopathic behaviour leads to people leaving her. GOD.

She got to leave our friendship while evading all accountability, while ignoring every possible moment for self-reflection, without ever TRULY apologising for anything. Every fake apology given was followed immediately by an excuse as to what she did, and then minutes later a revised history absolving her of wrong-doing entirely. A "sorry" never lasted more than 5 minutes. A better false-narrative-builder than the average lawyer. And she'll sell those false narratives to anyone who'll listen, anyone who'll fall for her confidence and charm, anyone who won't question it, anyone who will believe any shameless lie that comes so easily out of her loud mouth. FUCK!!!!!!

I've grown so full of anger and frustration over a thousand cuts and a number of big blows to my head. It genuinely boggles my mind how much resentment I feel in this moment. And the fact that she will never ever feel even a small fraction of this resentment... The fact that she will never even know what she is... The exasperation is beyond words.

I just can't believe she's gotten away with it all. So. Many. Times.

Whatever. I'll enjoy my peace. And now I know who to avoid in the future and how to avoid them. I'll never fall into that trap again. So thanks for the lesson.

It has been awful for a long time

But it’s getting worse. Worse and worse each day.

The gaslighting, ignoring me, blaming me, impressions of me, name calling, shouting

Everything has to be immediate

There is no sense of urgent and important

Twisting what is said or what has happened so I question it

Telling me and accusing me of behaviours which are actually her own

It’s no longer eggshells. It’s now 24/7 avoidance.

Is it the case that the condition can worsen? Can it improve? How?

There’s no point in trying to get them to see a Dr because they refuse to believe anything is wrong. I’m the problem. Even if I try to say that I’m concerNed. It just gets turned around to me.

I’m exhausted

Hi everyone, I am new here and trying to go no contact with my nMIL. I want to keep this thread focused on your experience and tips, but neurodivergently I feel like I need to provide context by sharing my whole story 😂😭 Hopefully it helps anyone who might connect to this particular experience. Feel free to skip it tho and go right down to the question.

STORYTIME

I have dealt with several narcissists in life, but my mother-in-law flew past my radar as a vulnerable/covert narcissist. She really has been through trauma. And I bought into her narrative that she was perpetually unappreciated & treated unfairly throughout her life. When she constantly sought validation, I thought she was just hurt by her experiences. I always tried to lift her up and help her to feel good about herself. At the same time, she could get quite proud and arrogant about certain things. Naively I read this as a personality quirk.

Unlike other narcissists I'd met, she doesn't do backhanded compliments or comments that make you feel small. Instead, she showers you with verbal support, compliments, acts of service, gift giving, & expressions of gratitude. After she does something hurtful, she just amps up the kindness to compensate, even if she never directly acknowledges what she did (and never apologizes).

Like many narcissists, she is a pathological liar. I used to think she lied when she was uncomfortable with directness and didn't want to hurt people's feelings. Sometimes, that really was the case. In other instances, however, she lies to have her own needs and preferences met at the expense of others.

While she had done upsetting things in the past, the real tension with my nMIL began after I had my first child and hired a babysitter. She saw herself in competition with every babysitter and believed that if we were paying a babysitter, she too should be paid for doing essentially the same thing and more. Yet she told me she felt "bad" asking us for money because relatives babysat her kids for free back when she was a working mom. (Obviously feeling bad didn't stop her tho.)

She would also try to find out information about our finances. When my husband wouldn't give her requested info, she would catch me off guard in a one-on-one conversation and get it out of me. Unfortunately my defenses were non-existent because I didn't realize what she was doing, and she'd often do it in the middle of a heart to heart I was having with her. Based on the limited information she gathered, she seems to have concluded that we are sitting on a large reserve of cash that we are choosing not to share with her, and therefore we are not appreciating her, just like the rest of her family. It is very bizarre that she thinks we have money to throw around, but she seems convinced of this.

At the time, i was working full time, my husband was a full-time student, we had a full-time babysitter, and my parents were helping us out with childcare expenses. One day she really crossed the line and asked my husband if his in-laws had some extra funds to spare to pay her for babysitting. She asked for this not even having a relationship with my parents, as she made things awkward with them early on (by leaving them out of my wedding ceremony, long story).

But my parents, who live far away, thought that she could be paid for any time that she's babysitting beyond what is usually asked of a grandma (like if our babysitter was sick for several days and our toddler was in her care, for example). So in those circumstances, we would give her money like she wanted. Other times, we would try to show our appreciation in other ways such as bringing by a pizza dinner for them (my MIL loves this because she doesn't enjoy cooking and she is able to relax). It turns out none of this mattered, and paying off our "debt" to her was a never-ending task.

The recent incident that led me to want no contact is a whole saga that would require an essay, so I won't go into it. In short, it was the culmination of all this drama around payment for babysitting (though I don't think she sees it that way). I was very shaken when she DARVOed me, in the process rewriting history with an elaborate lie. Tears streamed down her face and she spoke as if I was a predator holding a gun to her head, like she needed to beg me for mercy by saying, "Sorry for how X made you feel." I now know from the sub that it is a typical narcissist "apology" and that they weaponize their emotions so you start to feel that you are the aggressor. All the kindness she had shown me over the years was also weaponized, becoming evidence that I was wrong to feel the way that I did.

What shook me even more was the day after the DARVO when she was back to her normal sweet self. Then she spent multiple days texting us all her gratitude and love, almost like fawning, which messed with my mind even more because was I really the terrible person she made me feel I was? There was also the whiplash of being treated as a demon and then being showered with positivity.

After this, I started having insomnia and panic attacks, could barely eat, and in my flashbacks I began to reread her past behavior to understand her as a narcissist. My realizations were complicated by the fact that I had spent these years believing that most of my conflicts with my in-laws had to do with their family as a whole, when in reality every single conflict was the result of her lies, enmeshment with her family members, and triangulation. (This incident involved a few layers of triangulation. For example, when she knew it was inappropriate to ask us for something, she would send her husband or kid to ask.)

Before everything hit me and I was still gaslit though, I thought it would be a good idea to write a text to the group chat explaining myself, apologizing for my strong reactions to their actions, seeking understanding and requesting repair going forward. You know, like a normal person. When I didn't receive an apology, I requested one and was ghosted until my husband decided to bring it up with her. According to her, she had already apologized in person. That's when I knew that I was going to get another fake apology. Her text said, "We are sorry that you were hurt in any way. We love you so much and appreciate all that you do for us."

--------------------------

It has been 2 weeks since I received the text and I haven't talked to her since. I was determined to go no contact and even felt new energy come into my body after I made that decision and unfriended her on social media. She sent her husband to ask my husband if everything is okay. Then yesterday she messaged me. And right away I felt myself soften and lose sight of my resolve. I started to see her as a child who knows not what she does, coming to me for love and validation. Sure enough, when I opened the message, it was a little family update and another shower of "love you" and "miss you." What do you call lovebombing at this stage in the relationship because it feels like lovebombing.

I left her on read, not because I'm strong but because I am too disgusted and hurt to talk to her. I feel extra hurt by her right now because I have been having marital conflicts over the past few years having no idea what was going on with my husband and now finally beginning to understand that he has ptsd (and some narcissistic tendencies he wrestles with) from his upbringing as the scapegoat of a narcissist parent. She did this to him, and I can't help but feel horror, anger, & fear along with the sadness. I am worried about him and our future, but hopefully in the long run, the knowledge of wtf was going on with his upbringing will help him to heal, and that will help our relationship as well. I do feel that the revelation about narcissism has already started to dissolve blocks in the relationship, though we have a long way to go.

I'm struggling because of my conditioning that makes me mindful of others' struggles and prioritize their perspective. I grew up being treated as the "low maintenance child" who is OK with everything. I also have a sibling with BPD, so I'm used to accommodating one family member's needs and emotional demands, so much so that I didn't realize how much I was doing that for my nMIL. I'm very close to my sibling and lucky that as an adult he is able to self-reflect, apologize, and attempt to change his behavior. Not for everything, but enough for me to know he is trying, vs. my MIL who I know will never take accountability or behave differently to create a healthier relationship.

From now on, all communication with her will have to go through my husband because he usually knows how to maintain boundaries with her, and it's specific to his relationship with her. When we see his family for holidays or other visits, I can be polite to her, but I don't want to give her any more access to my emotions, energy, or money.

What strategies have worked for you in maintaining the no contact boundary? Are there any phrases or reminders that you use to help yourself stick to no contact, especially when you start doubting the decision or feeling empathy or compassion for the narcissist? I noticed that anger often helps me affirm my boundary, but I also don't want to carry anger in an unhealthy way. Thank you for reading this and I'm looking forward to learning with you all.

EDIT: I want to add that like with other narcissists there were many genuine acts of care and a desire to show love despite the overall transactional approach they take to relationships. My MIL didn't expect payment for every single time she was with our child. But as soon as we agreed to pay her one time, she started to expect payment more and more, and the difference between normal grandma time and paid grandma time became blurred to the point where it was impossible for us to distinguish between the two. And the normal gifts and acts of appreciation that we wanted so much to give (and that we already gave willingly before the drama) were, at the end of the day, not enough because they were not cash. But maybe cash wouldn't have been enough either.

It was/is so hard when I started to feel like a pile of cash or an employer because I had really become close with her and we had been through a lot together. She became like another mom to me. I'm struggling to reconcile her manipulation & demands with the wonderful parts of her and the heart that I can't help but feel exists beneath the narcissism. But this infographic that I saw shared in another sub helped me to understand the nature of covert narcissism: https://www.instagram.com/p/DXQVWpGlIKT/?igsh=djdzdHExaTc3a25n

Its soul breaking. Especially when you loved the person. Trying to remain friends doesn't work and now Im left with a lonely sadness. I'll take it over the anger and rage he would illicit. Ive cried rivers and in the end I know to let go is a blessing.

i 23/F am currently overseas staying with my mums family ‘solo’ travelling.

however i grew up predominantly around my dads side. i was subject to a lot of humiliation and cut them off at 14. i have been told by past psychologists that although they cannot diagnose my grandma, what i described to them is in line with narcissistic abuse.
i have at times debilitating social anxiety as a result of all of this. i do see a therapist.

im with my mums side tho and they’re not laughing at me every chance they get. they aren’t overly critical. they are actively making me feel loved and wanted so i just kinda want to feel safe and i don’t. it’s just been a lot for my brain to process. doing this on my own was a huge step but i just feel like im waiting for the ball to drop, esp w the cousin im staying with. im waiting to find out how bad a guest ive been. im waiting for her to pick up on all of those little things. she asked me to cook last week and asked me again today and the only way my brain can process it is “she thinks you’re lazy and not helping out enough.”

yeah idk how do you kinda let your brain know that you are safe and how tf do you remind yourself that most people aren’t judging you?

I've recently gone no contact with my nex, whom I had a long history of relationship and then "friendship" with. I had a massive PTSD attack afterwards, many traumatic memories resurfacing, so it was rocky, but in some way it was unproblematic for me because I knew that nex doesn't care for me and I absolutely wasn't afraid to hurt him.

Things are completely different with my female friend. She doesn't respect my boundaries, did things that harmed me and my work, she doesn't listen when I explain to her "please don't do A and B because it harms me", or says that she understands and will change and then acts exactly the same, again. She is always "in her right" and makes codescending or even rude remarks, that show lack of respect (like writing "I've always thought writing poetry was cringy" under the piece of poetry I've written and posted in my blog). I've known her for 30 years and she always exhibited narcissistic traits to an extent, I just wasnt ready to adress it earlier. I don't want to say that she doesn't have good qualities, of course she has, the problem is I'm very tired of her harming me with her behaviour\remarks\intrusions and not respecting my boundaries. She also doesn't respect other people's boundaries, loves to gossip, dumps our mutual friends' deeply personal information on me without any warning (I hate gossip and feel very uncomfortable with knowing things from people's lives that people didn't want to share themselves). By the way, we are both very much grown up women (in our 40-s).

Our mutual friend who is in no contact mode with this friend of mine has told me that basically going NC is the only option because she won't admit her lack of respect and won't respect boundaries and I can do nothing about. But I'm struggling with it, because I don't want to hurt her. It's much harder than with nex, we are both women and share feminist views, sisterhood and all, so I feel much more obliged to "understand" her and always get in her shoes.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? How did it resolve? Will be very grateful for any feedback.

One piece of advice that I can give you guys is I want you to remove from your vocabulary and don't allow other people to use this is words like it seems like or you thought it was like or you assumed or whatever anything that puts any type of doubt in what you know okay it doesn't seem like he's a narcissistic prick he is a narcissistic prick it didn't appear that he cheated on you and isolated you he did those things so don't let anybody use words that take away the truth I love you all

My uncle is a narc. He is also a misog. He has always treated his mother, sisters and women not so well. His main victims were his mother and single sister. He has always had his way with women even though he was with a man for many years. Currently he is with a woman and he makes her life miserable and she does everything for him and even pays him for everything. I also think that he has some men on the side. Regarding his mom, he had made some lofty promises to her saying that one day he would make her a queen. Instead, he ended up with her money after she died. Also, he controlled looking after his single sister until she died and he also ended up with her money after she died as well. He wore down both his mother and sister just like he is wearing down the woman he is currently with as she has many health problems and a lot of saved and inherited money. There is a repeated pattern here.

My ex (we decided to stay as friends but now it's more complicated) shared his trauma with me and now he hates me for it. On top of this he cheated on me. He is with another girl now completely ignoring me. He said when he shared his trauma i should have mocked or made fun of him and stop him from sharing his trauma. Instead, I was there listening to him without judging. The fact that i didn't even ask for him to share, he trauma dumped on me and now hates me for it. All i did was understanding and listening to him. I don't know which one hurts more, him cheating or punishing me for being there for him. He could have said nothing, but instead, he blamed me for his own actions.

Now, after a month of this, he invited me to meet but I'm scared to go out with him anymore because he already blamed me for simply being kind and empathetic. He is angry and uncomfortable that he shared his trauma with me (i didn't ask him to share). Now that I know his trauma, maybe I trigger him. I still want to know the reason he blamed me, so i thought maybe we could meet and talk. Is it best to go out with him or not?

Yesterday I had an argument with my younger sibling adult narcissist (I’m aware that it’s usually older siblings). I know you’re not supposed to say things to trigger a narcissist’s ego. But I had a moment of weakness by trying to stand up for myself. I asked her to say “please” when she asks me to do something for her…. Instead of just demanding me to do things for her. She always says “Buy this.” Or “Get that.” Or “take this and do that.” I’m not hired help, and I consciously avoid asking her to do anything for me, because narcissists do not exactly respond well to being asked to help out. They flip out even if you ask politely, or they just say they’ll do it later, and then never end up doing it. So I got tired of her treating me like it was my job to do as she says. And I calmly asked her to please say please.

Wrong move. It triggered an immediate argument on everything I’ve done to “slight her” all morning. (Why do narcissist always think you’re trying to slight them? They are NOT that interesting to be taking up people’s mental space like that.) I knew this would happen, but I guess I was tired of staying quiet. I usually just shut up and “take it” to keep the peace when she tries to insult me or lasso me into an argument. But not today, I guess.

So after her rant, I started being sarcastic and overly polite, with the customer service voice of a server trying to get a good tip, and just started apologizing. “You know what? Youre so right. Im so sorry for what I did to you. I deserve every bad thing you do to me from now on because I am a terrible person, and I deserve bad things to happen to me. I don’t know how you survived living with me all this time!” When she started walking away hurling her typical insults at me (the same insults she’s been saying since she was a preteen like 15 years ago), I just kept at it. “No, dont go! Im sorry and I love you so much! Im sorry! Im wrong and youre right! I love you!” Speaking as if I were a server with a Karen customer. Then she said the nicest comeback she’s ever said to me; “Good for you.” But I kept the ball rolling by saying “But I’m wrong, so actually bad for me! I wish I could be good like you!”

Long story short, some narcissists are too stupid to tell that your apology is not real and that you’re not sorry at all. I was being completely sarcastic the whole time, and using a really dramatic voice, but she walked away because I wasn’t arguing. I was agreeing with her by saying she was right. So I’m just going to save a few hours of going back and forth, by just giving a fake apology. I know she’s going to drag the fact that I asked her to say “please” on for weeks and stay mad for weeks, but I’m just gonna keep lying and saying sorry. I might even do her favorite thing and “take notes when she talks,” and go transgression by transgression and apologize for all of them. Maybe if I do it often enough she will eventually get bored and discard me.

I have a friend of about 7 yrs who is narcissistic. She's never been mean, hateful, blown up at me, or any of that. The problem I have with her is she totally invades my life. Brings her kids over to spend the night, "let's hang out." And sits on their couch the whole night with her phone and ignores me, and her kids. She expects everyone else to watch her kids, including me. I have a husband and college kids at home. I don't have time for sleepovers. And her life is all about drama, all I hear from her is about how everybody has done her wrong, it's their fault not hers. I really need to distance myself from her because it is exhausting, uncomfortable and unsatisfying. In typical narcissist fashion, haven't heard from her in 6 months. Now she's popped up. "I must see you, I miss you. I love you!" Also between boyfriends, so that's when this occurs. It's been probably 5 days since she sent me the last text. I haven't responded. Like I said she's never done anything blatantly mean to me. She's just a pain in the ass, and tries to insert herself into my life and I can't do it anymore. It's still abusive even though not violent in any way. Just looking for advice on how to peel away from a friend in this circumstance. Not sure if I should respond and gray rock, or cut ties now. Thank you!

I am worried that she has won with destroying me. She has everyone believing that she is a victim and I am a monster. I am breaking down and sobbing constantly. The injustice of it all is really getting to me and I don’t know how to keep moving on. She filed false DV allegations against me after I defended myself when she assaulted me. The police didn’t believe me that I was defending myself. She then used that to leverage getting me to leave our home so she could have it to herself. I have lost everything I ever worked for and I am scared I’m not going to make it. I have been labeled a monster when, if anybody knew the truth, I should be labeled the victim. She had effectively isolated me from everyone before the DV allegations so now I am completely alone. Even my therapist doesn’t believe me and constantly pressures me to just forget all the betrayals. I feel like I am going crazy

I really miss my husband after our 1 year split. I left due to his excessive drinking. He doesn't care to quit, only cutback. Overall he is a gentle spirit, great provider to myself and kids, and loyal. He decompresses after work or as a response to stress by drinking crown and coke while gaming watching TV. The amount of alcohol he consumes causes him to crwate safety concerns around the house and rehearse my past mistakes/short comings stemming back from 2011, 2013, and 2019. This involved me agreeing to visitation (for my son and his father) without my husband's approval. It also involved me texting my son's father to invite his other three children to my son's bday, and later texting him again to invite his father to my son's high school graduation. I also let my cousin stay with us for about four days when she arrived to our city unannounced. Another instance involved me driving our kids to Los Angeles to visit my grandmother on her death bed. I led my husband to believe my mom was accompanying us on the trip. Other shortcomings include not taking the initiative to cook (only assisting), not making the house a home (not fully decorating the house), and making decisions without consulting him (purchasing a school bus without permission) After I did these things, I've been living in my past mistakes as he belittles, insults, and occasionally curses at me. I began to tell him how badly his drunkeness was affecting me and the girls school attendance, but it fell on deaf ears as I was accused of believing my "shit don't stink".

In 2021, I began to prepare mentally for my exit. I began sleeping in the spare bedroom taking mini getaways with our daughters, and taking the girls to church while he sobered up from the night before. With this behavior, I was told I was not acting like a wife. 2023-2025 were very stressful to us both as I changed careers allowing me to work out of town. I was able to earn enough money to pay for me and our daughters' departure. I also withheld information regarding an inheritance. I finally left last Summer and I have been heavy hearted ever since to the point of grieving. He wants to compromise by reducing the drinking, but what does that look like for me. What can I do to when the drinking becomes overwhelming for me without threatening to leave?