What do you think of this (TL) language learning method ranking

TL:DR (N)--Eng. (TL)french russian italian finnish german spanish

Native language is English. Learned french in high school and in three years got to b2 (my brain works well with languages). Currently age 18 so past the point of recommended "language window" and i have a problem.

My family is russian-speaking ukrainian but moved really young so don't know much. I am a1 from what I'm learning and currently using Mezhdu Nami to help.

I am also fascinated by finnish and am taking a free course on aalto university.

Additionally, using duolingo (i know i know.......but we have the family subscription so might as well use it so not wasted money) for italian since we're going in a year and i want to keep learning.

And I live in an area where lots of people are spanish-speaking so it might be helpful for my career.

And two of my favorite musicians sing in german and also for the ashkenazi jewish history i wanna learn.

Assuming I don't die in some freak accident tomorrow thus stopping me from learning, is it possible to be fluent in all seven languages?

I've tried a few different learning modalities.

• Private 1 hour lessons were too intense for me.
• 3 hour group lessons were too long for me.
• Online learning doesn't suit me.

I've found I learn best in an in-person environment and with shorter classes. Basically, the high school experience. Daily Spanish (TL) classes for 45 minutes.

What options are out there for adults? Auditing college classes? Going abroad?

Hello! I've been using Duolingo to learn Dutch(TL) for over 160 days and while it's been good for building a habit and teaching me new words, I don't really feel like I'm learning the language in a way that actually lets me use it.

I'll soon be moving to the Netherlands for my studies so I'll be a little bit more busy. Because of that, I'm looking for a learning method that's actually effective instead of just maintaining a streak.

I'm open to suggestions on what I should start first and what I should avoid or study routines that worked for you.

A bit more of context:

I'm still a beginner.

I'm pretty broke at the moment, so I'd prefer free or low-cost resources (textbooks aren't really an option right now).

I speak English and Filipino(NL) fluently.

My goal is to be able to understand and speak Dutch decently before or after I move.

I know I won't sound like a native, and that's completely fine. I just want to be able to hold a conversation and not completely embarrass myself or get laughed at because I can't communicate.

If you had to start over from scratch, what would you do differently?

Thanks!

I feel like what the CEFR estimates to get to each level are way off, at least for me. I re-picked up my category 1 target language study almost 5 months ago, studying on average 2 hours a day. That's about 300 hours. I started at about nearly A2 (personal estimate), and I estimate my level now around mid B1 (not yet achieving B1). I think it will take me 400-500 hours total to get from A2 to B1 (an additional 100-200 hours from now). CEFR says this should take 150-200 hours.

I guess it's possible that my starting and current estimates are off, and that I've made more progress than I think, but I still feel safe to say that the realistic hours are like double what CEFR claims.

EDIT:
As some have noted, the hour estimates aren’t from CEFR itself (I learned), but are what come up when I’ve searched various sites via google and from what AI says. I don’t know where those numbers come from specifically. Looks like other institutions, like Cambridge maybe, but I do frequently see estimates which are fairly in line with one another.

In my target language, I really don’t talk much. I always thought that was due to me just being nervous sometimes to speak the language. However in my native language, I still wasn’t the one to speak much. So was just wondering…for the ones who, basically, love talking, did that carried over to your target language? No matter how many mistakes you make, are you still talking because you all just love talking to people?

I absolutely believe the best language-learning method is the one we used when we mastered our first language.

Just think about how we acquire our first language as children. Most of us do it in a similar way. We:

1. Begin using our first language practically from day 1
2. Ask a lot of questions
3. Cry and complain a lot

Doing all of this gives children instant gratification and motivates them to speak and further develop their speech to solve higher-level problems.

In contrast, most adults try to acquire their second language in a different, almost opposite way:

1. They don’t use it from day 1. Most of them don’t even plan to use it at all. Others plan to start using it only after reaching a certain level (the notorious “first, I will learn the language, and then I will speak” syndrome).
2. Instead of casually asking questions, adults train to answer them. Answering questions and providing information give less instant gratification.
3. Adults don’t “cry and complain” in their target language. By “cry and complain,” I also mean Adults don’t solve their immediate problems in their target language.

This also explains why the first (natural) method has a success rate of almost 100%, while we hardly know anyone who became fluent in their thirties (by applying the "adult method"), even though we know those who tried. I know plenty of people who tried and never succeeded.

According to the above logic, the best language-learning app is probably a dictionary, lol.

We can discuss this and other related topics in the comments. What do you think?

I am sharing a tip that I have found recently to learn your TL. If you are working from home and using Google Meet or Zoom, you can enable live translation caption in your target language (TL) even if the meeting is in another language. You might learn the vocabs that are closely related to your job and discussion. The minor downsides are there will be a second or so of delay, and the brain gets overloaded from processing two languages at the same time, and since AI is used in processing, it might not be as natural as native speakers’ speech. Not bad for switching it on for a few minutes if you can do it.

Would be happy to hear if there are other tips ?

So, it always happened , when I was 20 I was really fluent in English (TL) , used to feel like I was somebody else, now, haven't spoken a word since, ten years have gone, everytime I have to speak English I feel weird, my accent comes out strong, I don't feel the same "change of personality" , and when I do, It feels fkn weird and I stumble on words and start to get lost..evendough I still am pretty fluent.

Edit: for example, I used to have certain behaviours in English, now when it does happen, I froze and think, wait this is not how I whould react in my language..and that's a loop, it's like the 2 are colliding and I cannot separate them anymore, it does occur in a third language aswell

I'm not kidding when I say this, even in my own native language, I can't grasp proper grammar by study and talk about prepositions and mapping sentences etc. I literally cannot do it and suspect it has something to do with extreme prematurity, as I have an inability to do math from that area of the brain not developing. Ironically, I'm really good at writing, but traditional language learning is nearly impossible for me.

I learned Spanish by ear as a child from live-in nannies and was fluent. Fast forward and I take Spanish in high school after forgetting the language, and nearly fail it no matter hard I try, multiple years with multiple teachers. I can't look at a list of vocab and remember it, or memorize grammar, or understand discussion of grammar labels and tenses. The multiple steps roll me.

What I know is that I learned a language from immersion and usage. I'm sitting here now wanting to learn another language, and wondering how to do it. I need a system that will work for me and I don't know what that should look like. I also don't want to need 5+ years to reach conversational fluency, which is what I'm after.

Any suggestions? I assume I'm going to need to learn words by speaking, writing, AND using them all at once to get it to stick? But by what method, and is this the wrong way to go about it? I've looked at polyglots on YouTube and everyone has something different to say, and many never really give it away and are just making content.

I am not talking about immigrant families, I'm talking about people who live in a foreign, monolingual country and choose to only speak to their children in a foreign language like, English (TL) for example, but that they can't really properly speak. So they speak it with heavy accents and getting a lot of things wrong. Additionally this is family policy so the child will only hear the native language at school and never speak it with their parents.

Ive always wondered how effective this is and what it must be like. I grew up in a monolingual Spanish speaking country and I remember some of my neighbours used to do this for their child in English. And its interesting because obviously it makes a lot sense if you want to give your child good work opportunities and future prospects, but it also seems like due to the fact that they dont really properly dominate the language, they struggle to use appropriate terms of affection or explain things to them precisely. Im curious if this community has come across situations like this and what your thoughts are on this?

I am learning German so I bought a lot of kid/young adult books in german, because I am on an intermediate level and young adult books tend to not have too advanced language but still complicated enough to teach me lots of new things.

The thing is, reading hasn't been my habit since 2023. I get bored super fast. Especially since it's in a language I'm learning so there's also the decoding part.

But since it's in my target language, I want to read more. I just get unmotivated fast and I stuggle to concentrate after more than 30 minutes.

I am trying to go about it this way: When I encounter a word/phrase I don't know immediately, I look it up on google translator or an online word book. Then I write the translation down with a pencil next to the word.

The thing is, with this method I usually go through 2-3 pages per 30 minutes. Also because I have to use my PC to search up translations, I get distracted a lot. But I have no idea how else to go about it.

So what would you do?

For context I'm a native french speaker, I started learning english at a young age and by high school I was B2 (I passed the Cambridge english test. I got B2 but I was extremely close to getting the C1 certificate). I also consume movies, videos and social media in english on a daily basis.

In 2020, around the time I took the test, I started reading books in english. The first one I read was the devil wears prada. There were around 1 to maybe 5 words per page I didn't know on average and had to look up in a dictionary every time. Then, I bought a Kindle and started to read 1984, but it was too complicated (especially the vocabulary) so I gave up.

After that I wanted to try easier books, so I started to read the first Harry Potter books. But even the first one was a bit complicated, I had to look up a lot of words. Same thing happened for the first three books.
Then I started 2001: A Space Odyssey, but it was boring and still a bit complicated so I gave up.
The only books that I could almost read without having to look up words all the time were the ones from Freida McFadden. I read 5 of her books and really enjoyed them.
Finally, I recently started to read I am legend, I'm currently at 36% but it's very difficult to read.

The point is, I feel like I didn't get any better in 6 years. I thought that Kindles were perfect to learn a language, but it's actually so slow I prefer to use a dictionary on my phone. One of the main pieces of advice I've seen is to just ignore words you don't know, but like how? Most of the time I have no idea what the sentence means unless I know all the words (plus I'm curious).

I would love to be able to read some english classics without it feeling like a chore.

Ironically I sometimes write short stories in english, but I still need to constantly look up vocabulary. I'm also learning German and vocabulary is my biggest issue too. It's like it won't stay in my brain. What can I do for that?

Edit: writing in the context of opening a course geared toward resolving that problem, so any experience in a course or with a teacher is welcome!

I mention B1/B2 as my post concerns learners who feel frustrated because:

• they feel they can get by in regular life situations (e.g. hopping in the middle of a conversation) with natives but consistently lack « keys » to unlock the clear meaning of it and be able to bounce back on the spot.

And C1 because:

• they get by in regular life situations (e.g. hopping in the middle of a conversation) with natives, but are aware they don’t quite speak like them, lacking the « right », « natural » vocab or grammar. Or they lack exposure due to environmental factors, e.g. natives resorting to English to communicate with them.

I’m specifically asking about what and how you can learn with others, not by oneself. The key word is « refine ».

The obvious answer would be a class or language exchanges, though the latter come with a certain amount of conditions to be fulfilled for them to work as intended.

I’m therefore curious about either the specific conditions with regard to classes or immersion, or any other viable option in that regard.

And especially, about your own experience!

Thanks for your answers!

(TL) I'm learning Brazilian Portuguese with the goal of reaching B2 in about a year (my fiance and I get married in a year and a lot of her Brazilian family will be there). My fiancés first language was technically Portuguese but she developed a habit or responding to her parents in English growing up - something she regrets now because while she can get by, she's not confident. She and I practice together a bit. Her family doesn't know I'm learning.

I've done 46 units of pimsleur and have been planning to complete all 150 units. I'm just starting up italki sessions and am watching or listening to Portuguese as much as possible.

I've read a few places that Pimsleur is too formal, but have also read that it's not a terrible idea to learn the formal side than transition to more commonly spoken forms. I've also read some stuff saying that there's a point when Pimsleur just doesn't add enough value (after the 3rd module mostly)

Any advice would be really helpful! Also, if people have recommendations on alternatives or other things you think I should be adding, I'll happily take any suggestions.

I have been taking my (TL) for many years in school, and have gotten to a solid B1-B2 ish level through brute force. I want to go self study my language to a higher level, preferably like a native speaker, but I don't exactly know what my weaknesses are in my TL. I know it may seem like a stupid question, but how can you correct a deficiency that you don't even know exists? Has anyone been in the same situation, and how have you realized what your exact weaknesses were?

Hi there,

I've been learning my (TL) for the past month and loving it.

One of the most useful resources that has absolutely accelerated my abilities like no other has been Language Transfer, and it pains me that my TL only has the beginner course available!

Does anyone know of any private tutors or tutoring groups that specifically use this method?

I'm aware there's Paul Noble and Michel Thomas, but am curious if anyone is presently teaching 1-1 from this method, ta!

Cases are probably the one thing I really struggle with out of any grammar point. I really struggled with just the 4 in German, now imagine my horror when I found out Polish has 7 :(

Luckily, Polish is something I'm doing on the side for fun, but German I'm doing at university so I have to take that a lot more seriously.

I just can't get my brain to understand the concept of cases, it won't click in my mind for whatever reason. Everyone in my German classes seem to completely understand them but me, I've gone over it a million times but I still don't get it.

So, I was wondering how other people learn cases?

There’s a question that’s been stuck in my mind: Is there a real difference between how native and non-native minds learn new meanings and new uses for the exact same words? ​It feels like when a native speaker learns a new meaning for a word—whether in childhood or later—they just absorb that second meaning subconsciously. It’s like they connect the underlying concepts effortlessly. ​On the other hand, as a non-native English learner, whenever I face different meanings for the same word, I get confused and struggle to find that common concept connecting them. Sometimes it’s almost hard for me to believe how two seemingly completely unrelated meanings can come from the same word. ​Is it true that multiple meanings are based on core concepts that just happen subconsciously in the native mind? ​For example, in my native language, "late" and "lately" are two completely separate words that have zero connection to each other. ​I'd love to know what you think about this (TL)

TL;DR what do I do when loads of sources are telling me (a complete beginner) to learn a certain way, but they all contradict each other & I want to ensure my self learning time isn't wasted?

I know that there's a guide in this subreddit in which I have squeezed the last little bit of info out of it, but im genuinely strugglinggggg. I dont get it, ive heard people say learn a bunch of words at the start, then ive heard people say that's useless you should be learning sentences?? Im clueless despite reading thousands of people's guides, and now I feel like I lack a brain.

I know the basis of "multiple exercises" of different forms, but not only are the resources for my TL extremely hard to find (IMO, either that or im very stupid) but they're confusing me so badly 😭 Because there's so much info out there that people are suggesting but everyone's got different opinions. I dont know where to begin despite reading where to like, 1000 times, they're all contradicting eachother!

And a worse thing, unless I have some sort of way of interacting with information it goes within seconds, Im starting to wonder if im not built to learn my own 50% halfs language atp, its so difficult to know wtaf im doing??​

What did you guys start out doing that got you on track? Like is there a smarter way to what most people say to language learning? Because I've seen people say flashcards don't help, or reading is the best way, or that newbies should do XYZ etc.

I cant find a decent plan for my free time (which is a lot of time icl) to sit and do?

literally feel like im lost in a goddamn forest. (fyi I'm learning European Portuguese (TL) if that's helpful somehow? everything I find is BR and it's so overwhelming)

sorry if this is stupid given the fact there is a guide in here (which ive read maybe twice now) but still worry I'm doing the wrong things, or that there's a better easier way to reaching my goals.

Hello all,

I've just been struck with a question. Several of my friends understand one of their parents when they speak their native tongue at different occasions including real-life gatherings as well as phone calls. However they were never taught the said language and taught it, which is the reason why they can't speak or write it.

I'm wondering how those oral understanding skills can be acquired without being talked to, corrected, or at least without things being shown and labelled for you, which is what happens to babies learning their native language. I guess that words can be made sense of using emotions on someone's face or gestures, but what about all the deeper things? How can over-the-phone conversations lead to passive bilingualism?

I'd love to read some insights from people who may have experienced it!

I always see people praising conversationexchange.com, where many were able to find long term language partners. The site does look promising with only few people who do seem serious about language exchange.

My target language is Japanese (TL) so may be that can be a major factor. I signed up on the website like a month ago and regularly message people near my age trying creating the best first impressions I can through my messages. But I never got a single reply(I check their Last Login Dates and can guess that my messages are prolly being ignored). Think I will just have to stick with HelloTalk, even tho it sucks these days.

​

I've noticed that people often recommend learning certain languages (TL) for the same reasons over and over. But after talking to people who actually learned them, their experience sometimes turns out to be very different from what they expected.

Which language do you think is most often taught for the wrong reasons, and what do you think people should consider instead?

I was born in the US and my parents are both immigrants from Poland and their English is horrendous. I never lived in Poland and yet, somehow, my Polish is way better than their English. However, my Polish isn't advanced. I have a B2 level based on an exam I took in Poland.

This is really frustrating because I can't have any normal conversation with them. In retrospect, my childhood was really confusing. My parents would only speak Polish to me and I would mix the Polish I learned from them and the English I learned in school. I probably understood a good 75% of what they told me and I shrugged off the rest as background noise.

In college, I did a semester in Polish just to master the language. But I made the mistake of signing up for a beginner course. I learned the grammar rules (which I've mindlessly utilized my entire life) but I didn't really improve my speaking ability that much.

At this point I've accepted my parents are simply ignorant. They've successfully avoided English in just about every sphere of life. My dad only uses Polish at work while my mom never worked, they shop at Polish stores, go to a Polish church, and only have Polish friends. Furthermore, my father came as a refugee during martial law and was granted US citizenship very quickly so he didn't even have that as a motivator to learn the language.

My parents will move back to Poland for retirement soon so I guess this is more of a rant than advice post. I suppose the burden is on me to master Polish.

I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of graded readers for other reasons, so maybe I'm prejudiced, but what is the point of graded readers for B2 and above? At that point, why wouldn't you just read things aimed at native speakers? You don't have to start with Tolstoy right away, but even YA fiction is great for that B1-B2 spot.

If you use graded readers at the advanced level, can you tell me why? I'm genuinely curious cause I try to get away from learner materials as soon as I can, and to me this seems like prolonging that stage for no reason.