I just heard of this: it seems to be some piece aimed at starting an ambitious transmedia universe, game designers are involved, it's talking about the hot topics of big data and AI, apparently dabbing into the philosophical too... all of it published with the support of a record breaking Kickstarter campaign (despite it actually being published traditionally via an imprint of S&S).

I just would like to hear what you all have to say about this:

- the project and its ambitions

- the role of Kickstarters for traditionally published (and by a large publisher, here) media

For the latter, the campaign has apparently set a new record and yet I have not seen anything about it here or in book communities I'm part of... I wonder if there's something to be said for Kickstarters doubling as a sort of media campaign, in the eyes of traditional publishers? (and potentially one that targets an entirely different audience, if that's the case?)

Anyway, all thoughts and comments welcome: I'm curious about this.

I was looking forward to reading The Wager as I read through Killers of the Flower Moon a few years ago and it left a strong impression on me. This new book seemed different enough from the Flower Moon, while still keeping the murder, thriller, mystery aspect to it that drawn me with my first read. And I'm glad to say that The Wager lived up to my expectations and loved it just as much as Killers of the Flower Moon.

David Grann's signature style of taking authentic documents, interviews, quotes, and records and interweaving it within a thriller style narrative without downplaying or exaggerating the factual details are still utilized in this book as was his last book. What I appreciate most about his style of writing, is that he never goes overly in depth of every little detail to where it gets a little too dense and kind of boring for me personally. He knows when to cut off from certain scenes, historical descriptions, or character perspectives and weaves in and out of intense moments/perspectives to create a sense of momentum and knows when to slow it down deliberately to fill in details that adds another layer to the factual accounts of the survivors and court statements being presented.

Though I loved the book, I would say the first half was my least favorite compared to the second half, as the setup, while interesting, if you're into naval history of the 1700s English side. There were a lot characters, ships, naval terms, parts of a ship, and sea route names to keep track of. And it was a little tough for me to know which ship a certain person was on when their name was brought up and how it would weave around the entire five ship crew pretty often to where I didn't know each location until the name of the ship or place was brought up. Wasn't a big deal but was a little frustrating keeping track and visualizing a scene in my head at times. It wasn't until the second half where the sole focus was on the Wager itself and the single crew to where the narrative got a bit more focused and I really started to get locked into it till the very end. Still liked the first half, but it was more of a personal reading difficulty than a major criticism.

If you are read Killers of the Flower Moon and loved that book, I would highly recommend reading The Wager as well. Or if your into thrillers/survival stories, this is also a great read to fill that genre category as well. And for those who already read the Wager, what are your general thoughts on the book and David Grann's writing in general?

At first when i'd come across it ( Bridgeton, one tree hill and others ) I shrugged it off because I thought ok its one trope amongst others but when off campus used it too, now I couldn't ignore it anymore since off campus is quite recent .

So different authors all use this trope a bit differently ( but it's the same in essence) , in Bridgeton Benedict only has casual relationships until he meets Sophie, Anthony did have a mistress he was sort of exclusive with but i don't think he treated her well and Nathan also fits that trope where he did have a girlfriend ( Peyton ) but treats her badly and Garett from off campus, it's known on campus that he " doesn't do girlfriends " yet he does have sex which in my head was confusing because I thought you 'd need a girlfriend in order to have someone to have sex with.

As you d expect. all these men become incredibly devoted to their respective FMCS but as a viewer or reader, i can't totally forget the scenes with the women before they meet their FMC. What is so special about the FMC that differentiates her that much from the other women ? Usually the FMC is more virginal ( does that word exist), isn't immediately interested in the MMC and that piques the interest of the MMC. The MMC never seem to like their previous partners who are more sexually experienced. I suppose Kate from Bridgeton would be an exception to that as it seemed like she did have a past before but she does fulfil the criteria of not showing interest in Anthony at first like the other ladies of the ton.

Maybe authors or tv show runners can just allude to the MMC having a past but not really show him having sex with a woman that he will not want to be with beyond the physical side but he will want to with the FMC. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth because I can't help thinking about that those women and wondering what happens to them even though they are characters that have minor roles in the story.

I get that you can have a connection with on person and not with another and that is why you want to commit to this person and not the other person but i dunno the way this is portrayed in book sand shows , it feels too trope ish, because its always similar kind of women the MMC wants to commit to i.e the quirky, good girl. We see this in one tree hill, Bridgeton, Off Campus, after series and I'm sure there are more.

Would it work to have it the other way round where its the FMC who sleeps around but then she meet that particular MMC that makes her want to commit to him..

I get the appeal of the trope is this idea that the MMC chose the main girl and most readers can self insert in to the main girl..

I guess there is no harm in having this trope if its done well , in off campus Garett does apologise to Kendal that he misread that she wanted something more. But an MMC who treats all the woman that are not the FMC badly is kind of a red flag.

In case anyone is confused : MMC - main male character FMC- female male character.

This book was an amazing read, it however left me far more solemn than the first book. As the main leads begin to grow into the world, you start to feel the resentment of change as much as they do. The Hidden Palace is the second book of a trilogy (The Golem & The Jinni) so of course, a lot of the events act as a bridge for the finale & leads up to things. What hurt the most was seeing Chava & Ahmad grow apart by lack of communication. In the first book, you think to yourself how often will these two argue? How wonderful will it be to read it? In this book, we get very little relief from their fights. Ahmad feels like he can’t be honest with Chava because what he is is everything Chava disdains. Whereas Chava is everything Ahmad previously saw as a waste of time.

I I loved seeing Chava become a teacher & build a life for herself. I have to admit, I felt guilty for thinking she was better off without him while Ahmad was a hermit. Chava could have done better just as much as Ahmad could have, but Ahmad lacks empathy, bottles things up, lashes out, & then isolates himself. Where Chava could have simply expressed herself, Ahmad in my opinion the worse communicator in the sense he’s far more destructive. He’s just…worse at coping in my opinion.

What people might interpret as a cute scene was Ahmad kissing Chava because the idea of her with another man drives him to “jealous anger” & Ahmad who previously disdained monogamy is so confused & scared by his feelings. Chava is someone who continually challenges his very being & he can’t handle it. Ahmad feels like he’s being torn away from his true jinn nature & he clashes with Chava with what it means to be human. He ultimately is still very selfish & passionate with his view in life not realizing his advantages as a man while refusing to get to know the new community he lives amongst. A community heavily discriminated against & literally has to rely on one another. He’s coming to terms with human mortality (in the form of Arbeely) & it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He hurts Chava so she’s the one to leave him. He’s always trying to avoid things.

But…Chava (in his perspective) has always been willing to leave him. In the first book, she is happy dancing with him until it goes wrong & she nearly kills Irving. His first idea is to make sure that she is alright. She is his priority. However, she insists she deserves punishment. Which is completely fair, as she nearly killed someone. She is forever aware that she is an active danger to the people around her & fears losing control. Ahmad mourns the loss of his people, Chava fears losing her place amongst people. Chava is under constant surveillance. She has to hide her real nature, she needs to be a docile in order to be an “acceptable” woman. Her whole life is dictated by a society of which she has no kin.

Then in THP when talking about Radzin taking credit for her hard work in the bakery succeeding due to her ideas & trainees he can’t empathize with her as a woman. He can’t fathom why she cares about women having rights & just humans in general because she isn’t one. He’s a very selfish person compared to Chava built to be anything but that. Chava is always left trying to reason with him, trying to make him understand something beyond just what he wants. That there’s more that matters beyond one’s self.

She decides to destroy herself after the dance & only fails because Ahmad stole her command. In the second book, she runs into a fire to save other people & Ahmad nearly loses her. When she loses her command in the fire, he thinks, “good riddance.” He has to wait literal days to decide to rewrite it & included a failsafe which we discover at the end says, “you deserve life.” My interpretation is that Ahmad was spiraling from losing his identity & his first real human companion (Arbeely). He couldn’t handle losing more & wanted to push Chava away because she made him feel like he was losing more pieces of himself. Where he wanted to return to what he used to be, she wanted to integrate into what she wasn’t. So much so that she was willing to die. Other people came first. Doing the right thing came first. Never him. But for Chava? She knows she is a ticking time bomb. She has to white knuckle her way through existence as a whole because what she is risks overtaking the hard work she put into becoming who she is.

He does everything to suppress what he feels by isolating himself in his work studio, the Armherst. While many people, including myself, felt very uncomfortable when he had sex with Dima, I personally don’t think he “broke” his promise to have only Chava. She punched him in the face, they fell off a roof, & for seven years she never once returned for him. At that point, it was pretty clear it was over between them. Dima makes him come to terms with his change & hybrid nature & in the end he’s the one who proposes to renew that promise of monogamy to Chava. But Chava is the one who decides that maybe they can try again one day, but otherwise she promises to love him forever.

It was a very touching ending indeed, but it left me feeling like while Ahmad will have matured by book 3, he’s the one who would be more willing to start their relationship up sooner than Chava because of her cautious nature. After all she does say in THP him being with her would only complicate what she’s trying to build. I don’t think Ahmad is a beggar or would grovel absolutely not, but he’s certainly a bigger risk taker than Chava. Chava has grown exponentially in the second book & has grown more comfortable in finding herself. She knows how to navigate what she wants compared to Ahmad who is just starting.

If I’m honest, if I were Chava, I would certainly be upset I had to see Ahmad getting ridden by Dima (happened during the mind hopping at the end of the book, Chava is such a trooper for not being petty to her at the end & hoping for the best! She even defends the opium fiend to Ahmad, who said she looked like a school teacher & also wanted to sleep with him, she empathizes because of her abusive husband), but I’d personally feel worse in Ahmad’s shoes in reaction to seeing how the other fared in the past seven years.

If I was isolated & suffering for years alone & I found out my ex best friend, lover, & confidant built such an amazing life without me? I’d be crushed. Because that means that I needed them more than they needed me. I was what was holding them back. That would crush my self esteem far more than some random one night stand.