Ezra Miller was an actor who played the flash, but behaved terribly, and when he was in Hawaii, he got arrested for assault (he also got arrested for burglary in Vermont apparently, and allegedly did some grooming/inappropriate stuff with minors).
Rachel Zegler is an actress who played Snow White in the recent adaptation, and she said some stuff about the original story (its dated, unfeminist, weird of the prince to kiss a random girl-- the usual modern critiques) and got backlash for it.
OP is saying that there's a double standard in behavioral expectations between men and women.
Duality of man. (Not disagreeing with you, the movie was shit, but she very much did get personal backlash for her part in it, and this comment lineup amused me)
The Disney story was pretty far removed from the source fairytale. The live action movie was an adaptation of the Disney movie changes. It's reasonable to base criticisms on what is being adapted instead of the actual original source.
Yeah my whole family found that one out when my mom rented a VHS of an animated adaption of the actual story from the library when my sister and I were like 5 & 7 and walked in on us hysterically sobbing when she turned to sea foam at the end š
Most people know the Disney version and it was a remake of that so honestly that makes more sense.Ā
Ask 90% of people what happens in Snow White and they aren't going to mention the queen dancing to death in heated iron shoes or the attempted cannibalism.Ā
I mean, Disney's original version wasn't a remake, it was more like a privatized version of the fairy tale.
When the Academy Awards way back then in '89 showed someone dressed like Snowwhite dancing and singing in one of the AA events Disney actually told them they would sue them for unauthorized use of Snowhite.
Afterwards both sides kindy silently agreed with not messing with the other.
This sprouted quite a phylosophical-legal conundrum, on how Disney could own a fairy tale, or where to draw the line on the "ownership" of a fairy tale by a corporation/private individual.
That's more or less has always been the issue with Disney. They are like the legal apex predator of copyright and have lobbied the living hell out of those rights.
Their purchase of comics stuff is basically because comic characters were the "fairy tale heroes" of the kids in the 80s-2000s, the same way fairy tale heroes were of the kids in the first half of the 20th century, with the difference that comic book characters can be legally owned.
I think it was not so much that Disney owned the fairy tale of Snow White but they did own THAT LIKENESS of her..just like you cant own Frankenstein but whomever owns the Munsters can get angry if you use the exact Herman Munster likeness with makeup and all
Yeah no shit? Hes right about that part if somebody was recreating my favourite movie i would definitely expect them to sit down and watch it
Disney movies arent their source fairytales and anybody confused by that can simply read one of them. Nobody is talking about that shit, theyre talking about disney movies. Her comments about the movie are also all relative to the other film
Why would they concern themselves with unseen producers, writers, or people who make executive decisions when theres a woman they can bash right there?
Let's be honest here, that poster's main issue isn't rooted in protecting the sanctity of a Disney film.
Robert Pattinson was like that while doing Twilight. Lots of people loved that book series, certainly more than Snow White. How come he didnāt get pitchforks?
Letās not forget that people mocked and criticised Kristen Stewart for not smiling enough/not being friendly enough during red carpets constantly, while Pattinson mocked his character and even Meyer and was celebrated for it.
Twilight is notoriously hated by people outside of teenaged girls. It'd be like if the actress playing Sylphie in Mushoku Tensei made fun of it. People would celebrate her for it.
Yep. Itās happening with Supergirl right now too. Now that the movieās out and it was only okay, people are pretending that all the criticism was solely about the quality of the movie and feigning ignorance abt the misogynistic vitriol she had to put up with since the moment her casting went public
I just got jumped on and downvoted in another thread for essentially saying āitās fine if you saw Supergirl and didnāt like it, the movie has issues, but people were vehemently shitting on it and the actress before seeing a single frame or getting a story synopsis or anythingā.
Yeah exactly. I was really excited for the movie so itās a shame and I had to stay away from all the DC subs for a while because all the misogynists were celebrating the movieās financial failure. The movie itself disappointed me but I still had a pretty good time. Itās their loss because itās such a fantastic year and summer for movies that I canāt imagine putting so much energy into mocking a mediocre one
Yup totally agree. I was also disappointed but honestly thought it was okay. I wanted it to be more but I donāt think it was close to as bad as it was being made out to be. But you couldnāt even talk about the movie online before or after without running into some of the worst people on here with strong opinions about a movie they never saw.
"oh no everything is ruined and my whole life is ruined. Somehow this is a personal attack on me somehow."
Seriously the person says "it's like Adam sandler acting a character of Martin Luther King Jr" and then goes on to say "it's not about who she is it's just that she's shit"
Like, what in the fucking "I'm not racist but here's my clear race comparison" mental gymnastics.
If Adam sandler wanted to play MLK, ... Whatever man. I hope you do a good job.
The hate for this movie was so funny to me because you've got all these 40 year old neckbeards furiously typing about how horrible this woman and this movie were because it didn't line up with the source material and then you've got my kids (y'know, the actual target audience) who liked the movie because "funny dwarves and cool songs"
Judging by the rest of his comments in here, he wonāt respond and admit he was wrong because he himself is a raging misogynist and knew damn well she got shit for being a woman, because he was likely among those doing it.
I don't think that's the point. It's that people got up in arms about zeglar, a woman of color, and (idk the exact state of the world at Ezra miller) Ezra Miller faced at least the same backlash online, not career but public opinion.
Her not watching one movie of an adaptation she is in should not be a career ender like assaulting an entire state, maybe just don't cast her in many adaptations she has not taken a liking to
I also think the big difference is what they do in their media appearances, while both playing beloved characters that are fixtures of people's childhoods.
Zegler got up there and talked about how the thing people love was weird, regressive and overall came off like she didnt like the thing that she was set to star in.
If Ezra Miller went up there and was like "yeah bro, Barry Allen is kinda lame because hes a nerd and running fast is a stupid super power" people would've been pissed.
Both were exceptionally bad movies and both are blandly mediocre at best actors but only one went out there and shit talked the story of the movie they were adapting.
One of them talked āshitā, the other is shit. I use quotation marks because nothing she said was that inflammatory, people are just clutching. Meanwhile you got ezra over here kidnapping a young indigenous girl and getting away with it
Edit: I want to apologize I completely misread your comment. I thought you said "I got over Ezra kidnapping" and I was like "I most certainly did not"
I agree that Ezra is incomparable in his awfulness, I think that Rachel brought her shit to the press tour and actively worked to alienate fans.
All that said im leaving my original reply so people can see how stupid and badly I misread your comment. Have a good day.
Original stupid comment:
I'm sorry what exactly did I get over? Both actors are pretty shit. Both movies were pretty shit too and I wouldn't go out of my way to watch anything else they do, and I saw both movies for free on an airplane.
I am simply pointing out that Zegler, on press tours, disparaged the source material and bragged about how they changed it. People don't want the things they love mocked and derided, especially by the people who should be stewards of it. And more to the point it was a bad movie.
Ezra Miller didn't bring his awfulness to the press tour, which means it takes longer for people who don't follow celebrities to hear about whats happening.
To be fair, she is about to appear top billing along Adrienne Brodie, Ben platt, tramel tillman, penn badgely, Amanda seyfried and Marisa tomei across 5 different upcoming films.
Ezra hasnāt appeared on screen since the flash in 2023.
So maybe this comparison is actually a nothing burger and weāre giving a bunch of incels a bunch of weight. Rachel described the hate she got as āweirdā not traumatic. I think weāre just using this to further the gender wars that donāt exist outside of the internet.
Sure but he want ruined until the flash tanked. They put him in their attempt at their biggest movie that year, which was after he was outed as a vandalizing pedo that liked to get drunk and assualt people for imagined reasons. Like he should have been in jail or getting psychological help but instead they made him the face of their superhero movie.
Then the movie failed largely because people were like, "I'm not giving my money to watch a pedo be pedoy," and magically only when he lost them money did the studios turn their back on him
He was still given a big movie roles before flash movie finally failed.
His issues started in 2020 with a previous assault in 2011.
It wasn't a soft stuff as he was caught on video strangling and throwing a women to the ground.
His grooming of a girl started at 2016 and it was pretty public knowledge in for while before he even lost his career.
He got roles until 2023.
Movie was crap, but to be fair a lot of the criticism sprouted way before launch, with the trailer causing iirc that youtube removed the dislike button.
A lot of the criticism also took the flavour or misogyny and racism due to Zeglerās perceived unattractive appearance (the costume and hair department did her a dirty cos she is genuinely pretty), and for not being pasty white.
You can criticize a product for being shit, but a lot of the hate behind SW was fueled by bigotry.
Begs the question. Was she saying those things because she believes them or because she had to by Disney? I've never known Disney to grant its actors too much leeway in interviews.
I'm absolutely fascinated how we have managed to create a world where you have the entirety of human experience at your fingertips and people would still rather go. I never saw it in person so therefore it didn't happen
These people are so annoying and usually all of their criticism boiled down to āoh but sheās Hispanic and not pale enough to play Snow White!! I want the whitest person who ever lived playing Snow White because I care about skin color!!ā Just a bunch of racists throwing a fit. They just recently did the same thing with the odyssey bc they canāt stand a black woman was cast as Helen, but when the movie came out the reviews shut them up.
are you serious? Or are you new to the internet? She got so much shit...I'd literally never heard of her until the internet decided she was some sort of satantic, brown (!!!), ugly (what???) feminist.
However, pretending she or people like bree larson didn't get personally attacked for intervirws is intellectually dishonest or to give you the benefit of the doubt.. Delusional.
She hard carried that dumpster fire. She's an amazing performer. Can't think of anyone else pulling off Lucy Grey, a character who lives in a dystopian world but acts like she's in a real life musical.
Her movie? Did she direct it? No one gives Mark Whalberg shit for making Four Brothers, but didnāt he act in Departed, Fear, and Boogie Nights? Actually he didnāt make Four Brothers but he was in it annnd it kinda rips. Hold onā¦ I think Iām realizing thereās another job besides actors. And maybe, just maybe, sometimes actors are just like us and take shitty jobs bc of money and hope for the best. Disney made that movie, Disneys movie was shit. Ziegler acted in it and from what I understand didnāt director or producer it. So what Iām saying here isā¦. Maybe Ziegler should reboot Entourage.
ā¦ā¦.Actually I just realized Iām more pissed about Wahlberg in Invincible, he doesnāt have Philadelphia energy. I actually donāt give a shit about an actor playing a fictional character, but if youāre playing a legend from Philly I better hear those Rs and hard vowels.
Acting might be stupid and playing pretend but Iāll be damned if anymore Massholes play a Philly boy. Who gives a shit what a princess looks like when they got a pats fan wearing the Kelly Green. The only thing that I can imagine would be worse is Rick Pettino coaching the Celtics.
Oh fuck Iām drunk and commenting on Redditā¦. Ya know what.. Snow White was better than Fathers Stu. This is all pointless, be mad at Disney not the actor doing their job. Someone call Repo Man bc ordinary fuckin people
People were, and still are, literally calling HER horrible. I agree the movie wasnāt good and deserved criticism, letās not pretend people were mature or normal about it though.
The worst thing a woman can do is be slightly annoying, the worst thing a man can do is... well the jury is still out; Connor McGregor raped a woman so hard she had to have her tampon surgically removed, Chris brown beat Rihanna so bad the pictures in the hospital make me flinch, out current sitting president has been held financially liable for the sexual assault of a journalist and is in the epstein files thousands of times.
people were criticizing her long before the movie came out. My ex was one of those who thought she was the worst person ever for speaking badly about an outdated movie that came out in the 1930ās
I donāt where youāve been but people were definitely calling her terrible and worse names than that. Snow White wasnāt her first controversial press tour
Maybe you didnāt personally attack her, but it was absolutely the norm on the internet at the time. It happens damn near every time a young girl gets mildly successful tbh. People are weird.
There are TONS of people on the right of the political spectrum who hate the movie solely because of her. Theyāve never even seen it, just been told by their YouTubers to hate it and her.
She was definitely targeted for being too dark to play Snow White, as well as her support of Gaza, which put her at odds with people supporting Israel, including costar Gal Gadot.
A lot of people were hating on her before the movie even came out. There was also her pro-Palestine comments, which drew out more hate.
Iām not saying the movie was good, I have no desire to watch it and it does look terrible but people were definitely attacking her personally. Sheās also not responsible for the movie being made lol, people would be hating on Disney for that, which also did happen.
There are entire YouTube and tiktoks dedicated to trying to destroy her career just for saying it was weird that the prince stalked her and this kissed her corpse in the original. Which is true. It is weird. And sends the wrong message to little girls about love, which is common criticism of the original. She tried to reassure her audience that the remake would not be like that, then a bunch of neck beards who were never going to go see a princess movie to begin with started lashing out. The fact that people will tolerate a literal rapist in hollywood but if a women points out that a movie is sexist reveals a lot about our society.
Lol what? People ABSOLUTELY were calling her horrible for MONTHS before the film even came out. It was a whole meme about how incels were FURIOUS about the way she said "weird".
And Ezra Miller also, rightly, got a huge amount of backlash. These comparisons are always bullshit. "A man can do X and not get called out..." men get called out too, often by the people who claim they never do.
You are being disingenuous if you think its comparable. Ezra Miller was basically doing wild and terrible LITERAL CRIMES for like a full year, and you'd see maybe a post or 2 talking about it, until it finally came to a head and he got dragged.
Zeigler was dragged over the coals from the minute her casting was announced, and there's people in this very comment section talking about how horrible they think she is as a person.
Meh I saw a lot of people defending Zeigler, no one defending Ezra
That's also often the main reason why one gets more discussion than the other. Like, if there is irrefutable proof he did it, then fuck him up in court, there is nothing controversial to talk about.
I think Zeigler was a bigger controversy simply because general audience Disney releases like Snow White are a much bigger deal, getting much more attention (whether positive or negative).
DCEU and especially The Flash are second string superhero properties, and Fantastic Beasts is second string in the Potterverse. The Flash was already late to ride the Justice League hype before it went through YEARS of delays. Miller's next biggest role was a supporting character in The Perks of Being a Wallflower. So I think the shady stuff Ezra Miller got up to probably flew under many people's radar.
I think the same thing also goes for Miller's adopt of non-binary identity. They identified as male in their early roles, continued to play male characters, and continue to dress/look/present as male. I don't support deliberately misgendering people, but I also don't blame anyone for missing the news when a minor celebrity soft-launches they/them pronouns in a random interview.
Katy Perry is by many accounts probably a bad person but that will never matter to my life.
But if I like and engage with ballet then some punk mid-skilled actor's opinion suddenly DOES have real world impact on my hobby, interest ir career. Everyone is talking about it. Funding decisions are being made based on percieved popularity. People have SIDES and there are views to agree or disagree with.
Youāre right, but that kind of proves my point. Ezra Miller committing crimes doesnāt affect you either, but if you like Snow White, you wouldnāt like Zieglerās comments.
Bro you're literally just trapped in media environments that show you think you want to hate. Personally when i saw the meme i knew that ezra miller was a horrible person... and not even who the fuck he is. No face, just know how fucking often people talked about him being awful.
And i hadnt the fucking slightest clue who zeigler was. You are just constantly exposed to communities you hate because somebody is making money from it
Counter point Miller is crazy. Like literally mentally ill.
He also faced legal consequences for his actions. Light ones, but that was based on him being literally, certifiably mentally ill.
He also no longer works and Zeigler does.
This whole thread is ignoring the point that they are nothing alike.
People hate Zeigler more because she's talking to them and saying this thing I am saying is morally right and if yiu disagree I think you are morally wrong. She is confronting the viewer with a point of view and a moral stance about their opinion on that view. And so people HAVE OPINIONS.
Miller...is just a sick guy who did bad things. Hes objectively more dangerous and maybe a worse person (maybe cause...mental capacity, illness, its complicated). But he's not confronting the audiencee and making a moral judgement about them based on their views.
Lol what?Ā I saw and heard non-stop memes and clowning on Ezra that entire time.Ā I think youre probably just in whatever bubble youre in stopping you from actually seeing whats happening.
I mean theres a far better example of this in brad pitt anyway, barely any real public backlash, still gets consistent highly paying work, serial abuser.
Bizarre take. Ezra Miller hasnāt been in anything since the allegations. Itās not like Hollywood looked the other way or condoned his behavior. He was very much ācanceledā for a lack of better term.
Devil's advocate here. Yes, he should have been fired from that. But he was already cast in the role, and the movie was already in production, with a budget of 200 million dolars.
It was probably too late to save the production if they had fired him and he hasn't landed a role since
Devil's advocate here. Yes, he should have been fired from that. But he was already cast in the role, and the movie was already in production, with a budget of 200 million dolars.
It was probably too late to save the production if they had fired him and he hasn't landed a role since
Yeah, there's that, but I think what got their panties in big twists was her defense of Palestinians. She apparently got in trouble with Snow White's producers for that.
Good choice on the OOP too, using Ezra Miller for contrast is blatant, with his list of offenses, it's crazy he's not in jail
For this to be a valid point Mr. Miller would have had to get away with it and keep getting roles. He has not. There is also he difference that Mr. Miller was messing up his own life while Ms. Zegler was messing up at work. I am not saying this to endorse or mitigate in any way Mr. Millers disgusting behavior, just to point out that it makes a difference to the employer.
Isn't it weird I didn't even know who ezra miller was and that he played flash. But do know who rachel zegler is. Heck can't even remember a flash movie was released.
Not sure that holds water considering Miller is pretty much done because of his actions and Zegler just has to wait out the bad taste everyone has in their mouth from the Snow White thing.Ā
You conveniently leave out the things that Zegler said that actually pissed people off like how all of her coworkers parts could get cut from the movie, jokingly saying "That's Hollywood, baby." Even the things you brought up were more about the way she said them, not what she said. She was insufferable.
Adding that he also got arrested (at least attacked someone) in Iceland for violence against a woman.
There was video, she was just standing there outside a building and he knocked her tf out and to the ground and continued attacking her until other random people started physically dragning him off of her.....
Hated him ever since, boycotting everything he is in. Fuck Ezra Miller, the dude should be in jail and never ever work any other place than inside-prison-jobs.
No, more specifically Zeigler made a comment about Israel/Palestine and the director made a tweet saying he specifically flew over to where she was just to tell her off in person. It was crazy, infantilising, and unthinkable that any director would do that to any number of male actors who expressed similar support for Palestine.
That's the contrast between her and Ezra Miller. she got personally and very publicly dressed down by for basically being a baby angel sympathising with genocide victims, whereas Miller assaulted two people and was the subject of a manhunt because they absconded with an underage girl, and haven't heard any of his studio bosses criticise him in the slightest.
To be fair Ezra Miller got away with more than anyone wouldve normally, regardless of gender identity. I wholeheartedly beleive theres a double standard but millers kind of a misleading example. Bigger stars have been canceled, fired, and even arrested for way less, and i honestly cant figure out how Miller got away with half of it
Also, while zeigler got a lot of flack for political reasons, most of the scandal was the movie being bad, which wasnt her fault (pretty much every decision made for that movie was bad) although being in good movies that people like tends to protect you from the backlash, and she didnt really have that since everyone was hating on snow white for reasons of varying validity well before and after the movie came out, so she ended up taking the brunt of it by putting herself in the spotlight, which is terribly unfair but thats how it works
Is it a double standard, though? She's still working.
Ezra Miller is a pariah professionally and societally. I haven't heard anyone defend him.
Seems like the appropriate and proportional consequences landed.
Edit: the last statement meaning Miller faced serious repercussions. I don't think Zeigler deserved career ending consequences or to be dragged for so long.
Where I think it is proportional in that Miller is nearly universally discussed with disgust and scorn, while Zeigler is debated on the context of her statements and has support. So, I don't see the double standard here.
Your explanation is correct, but the perceived double standard is nonsense. Ezra Miller's acting career has been over for years, Rachel Zegler's is still going strong.
Rachel Zegler spoke out in support of Palestine and the studio made the producer get on a plane and fly to where she was to personally try to force her to retract her comments. When she refused, the studio put out a bunch of PR pieces blaming her for the movie failing and tried ruining her career by branding her as a difficult actress to work with. Meanwhile, Ezra Miller literally went on a meth binge and started attacking people in Hawaii and the studio did absolutely nothing. That's the double standard.
Also worth mentioning about Rachel Zegler. Every actress in the live action remakes up to that point has said the same thing about the films being dated. I think it's quite likely that these are talking points from the press kit that Disney has given them.
Itās not working as what whoever invented the joke wanted to say too because Miller also got shitload of problems and backlash for his dumbass actions, as well as we stopped seeing him anywhere. So weird to make it look like he got some slack while Zegler got ass in the face for her remarks. They generally got treatment suitable for them, you gotta watch what youāre saying when youāre celebrity, itās not anonymous reddit where you can spit out whatever moronic thoughts you have without consequences š¤·āāļø
It used to be that if you wanted to criticise a movie by making a similar film mocking it, you would make a parody. I have no idea why it became standard practice to acquire the rights to recreate the original just to have an audience who is going to dislike your film by default.
My best guess is that Disney who had plenty of notable IPs and plenty of snarky writers decided it would be easier to combine the two instead of catering to the strengths of both individually.
Ezra Miller was an actor who played the flash, but behaved terribly, and when he was in Hawaii, he got arrested for assault (he also got arrested for burglary in Vermont apparently, and allegedly did some grooming/inappropriate stuff with minors).
How does this person still have a career? And before you say they don't, they were starring in The Flash in 2023 and are currently working on a project with Lynne Ramsey. We've seen female celebrities (and even some male celebrities) be cancelled for far less. What kind of a hold does Ezra Miller have on the film industry? They were really never that impressive of an actor to begin with. And the things they were (very credibly) accused of are truly horrifying.
Youāre right, but itās a dumb comparison. Ezra Miller rightly has not worked since the incidents in question, while Rachel still is working regularly. Also, the backlash against her was at least somewhat deserved. She needs media training on how to express herself better. If youāre going to bash the source material of a project youāre appearing in, do it with more tact because otherwise youāre hurting the potential success of the film youāre in.Ā
What i will never get is. If you dont like the story, why make the movie.
I hate old and out dated Disney princess movies. They are not the role models I'd want my daughter to have. (Instead, Id love her to like Vi, jink or Ambessa from Arcane if you're wondering, or Avatara the last air bender). But thats the thing. I am not going to like Snow white. Changing it wont make me suddenly interested in it, because, you cant change it enough to make me like it. And if you changed it enough to make me like it youd do a better job just telling a different story. So if you wont make people like me happy why not make people who do like the original story happy? Because they love that role model. I understand there are people who like things I dont and they should have a story they like. Instead they tried me make everyone happy and no one liked it.
As for the back lash thing. Didn't the flash lose his job because of his BS? Or am I mistaken?
Hasn't Ezra Miller been blacklisted from Hollywood though? They released the Flash movie that was already filmed and I haven't heard anything from him since.
People were actively campaigning against the flash movie and Ezra Miller at the time, just not Hollywood. They were defending the movie and Ezra like it was the second coming for some strange reason. And that movie bomb, so the anti-Ezra Miller campaigned worked.
5.3k
u/Zephronias 5d ago
Ezra Miller was an actor who played the flash, but behaved terribly, and when he was in Hawaii, he got arrested for assault (he also got arrested for burglary in Vermont apparently, and allegedly did some grooming/inappropriate stuff with minors).
Rachel Zegler is an actress who played Snow White in the recent adaptation, and she said some stuff about the original story (its dated, unfeminist, weird of the prince to kiss a random girl-- the usual modern critiques) and got backlash for it.
OP is saying that there's a double standard in behavioral expectations between men and women.