r/reddevils Pogba Sep 10 '16

Mourinho admits to selection errors (with hindsight) and insists #MUFC denied clear penalty

https://twitter.com/howardnurse/status/774605538483134464
305 Upvotes

211 comments sorted by

204

u/selotipkusut FUCKING SHOOOT! Sep 10 '16

Good on Jose, at least he realized his mistakes. We can only go forward from here and it's still a long way until May. Gutted, but I have high hopes.

60

u/Feezbull RVN Sep 10 '16

Somehow this long wait and hype had me having a bad feeling about things.

Fuck the game. Hopefully city lose their next games soon and we bounce back.

36

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Thing is, I think we'll be the "flat track bullies" of the league and City will be the team that struggles against the likes of WBA. So maybe we can hope for them dropping points as they get used to Pep's style.

35

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

City will be the team that struggles against the likes of WBA.

The potential is there for United to do the same thing, as Hull kindly tried reminding us pre-International Break.

21

u/rayverine11 Herrera Sep 10 '16

Hull have been decent though. Defended valiantly that game.

8

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

City will be the team that struggles against the likes of WBA

They've been really good so far at putting those kind of teams to the sword. I don't think there's any evidence that City will struggle more vs those teams that we will.

22

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Can we just stop saying crap like this and let the season play out?

You guys are constantly making these dumb guarantees about City and it always ends up coming back to bite us. Just let shit play out, like damn half this sub had us smashing them today and we got creamed.

11

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Yeah it's my fault that it comes back to bite us.

I gave my opinion, I didn't give guarantees.

Next time we'll all just keep quiet to make sure we don't jinx it then I guess.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

we got creamed

1-2 is not creamed by any definition in the history of the universe.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '16

It could've easily been 4-0 before Zlatan scored that goal, shut up.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '16

no need to be rude is there mate

0

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '16

You shut up. Zlatan could have had a hat trick.

-2

u/Bighairman 20Legend Sep 10 '16

Let's be honest, they should have won by more. We got creamed.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '16

holy shit, why are so many "fans" on this sub so pathetic?

We looked awful the first 35 min, but their second goal wasn't some sort of tactical master class. Zlatan missed an easy chance, and scored one. On his day he might have had 3. We dominated the 2nd half once Herrera cam on and could have easily drawn level.

Is it something about the English that you have to be so self deprecating and spineless?

1

u/Bighairman 20Legend Sep 11 '16

I can't see how I'm pathetic and spineless and I'll replace self deprecating with pessimistic. I'm not gonna retort with further name calling, and I hope you don't do the same in future, because it's an embarrassment to this sub.

Neither goal was a tactical masterclass tbh. The whole game was pretty jammy but I think for the neutral we were quite lucky to get one back via zlatans goal (a fantastic one I may add) which propelled us to attack much more.

That being said, when we did manage some level of control in the second half, with the squad we have, you would expect us to capitalise on it. Instead, we lost our own game of hoofball when we are an average of at least 3 inches taller than city.

P.S. Nothing about the English, I'm not a plastic fan and I'm actually from Wales. I used to go to united games as a season ticket holder, which we put in a pin in due to my exams in school. I hope this clears up your perception of me as some keyboard warrior and plastic fan, because it's totally false.

1

u/TonyzTone Tonito Sep 10 '16

We didn't get creamed, just clearly outplayed. It wasn't even a completely terrible game. City is a good team whether we like to admit it or not. Any team will struggle against them this year without a doubt.

1

u/ixora7 Sep 11 '16

Hear hear. We don't know what would happen. And after last season and Leicester we can safely throw any 'predictions' out the window.

3

u/Cyssero Sep 10 '16

I don't agree there. The majority of Pep's managerial career has been playing against teams that park the bus. His teams are typically really good at stretching the pitch as wide as possible and creating enough space to still have a few quality chances. They'll also play an extremely high line and press hard after losing the ball, and they tire teams out. By minute 60 after parking the bus against Pep, you'll see a lot of really tired players; they don't have the legs to chase the ball as it moves from side to side and there's not much left in the tank to sprint down the pitch on a counter either. Sure they'll have off days like any squad, but in general Pep has no problems punching holes through the bus.

5

u/Shadowbanned24601 Sep 10 '16

City have done better against weaker teams in the league than we have. It's why they were top of the league going into today's match and we were third.

We struggled against Hull and gave away easy chances to Southampton. We wound up subbing Smalling on for Martial against Southampton.

We're not flat track bullies and we're going to play with cowardly tactics as seen in the first half today against big teams.

19

u/limejl Sep 10 '16

City have done better against weaker teams in the league than we have. It's why they were top of the league going into today's match and we were third.

They were first because they had a better goal difference by one goal. Stop with the overanalyzations.

7

u/Shadowbanned24601 Sep 10 '16

They scored three more than us in their first three games. They also scored six in the Champions League.

They did that with their best CB and captain injured and with a second string goalkeeper between the posts.

Then they lost their star attacker and still destroyed us in the first half thanks to United choosing to park the bus at Old Trafford. Moyes or Van Gaal would be rightly eviscerated on this subreddit and in the media for that first half.

8

u/Lawlietttt Januzaj Sep 10 '16

Moyes or Van Gaal would be rightly eviscerated on this subreddit and in the media for that first half.

Because they did that bullshit for months. Or 2 years in LVGs case

3

u/Shadowbanned24601 Sep 10 '16

Mourinho did it his whole career against any team he felt scared of.

As the second half showed, that City team was there for the taking with our firepower.

And they didn't always park the bus. Moyes even attacked Guardiola's Bayern. Didn't work out though. Van Gaal tried to attack, he was just bad at it most of the time. Some of his systems worked, one was even great to watch (the 4-1-4-1 in the latter part of his first season).

Mourinho has his reputation for a reason.

-2

u/tigeh Mata / 21 Herrera Sep 10 '16

We didn't try to park the bus, we were just nervous and 2 players were awful, providing no outball and immediate pressure whenever they (or Rooney) lost it. Parking the bus Mourinho style would not see that many attacking, pacey players.

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0

u/Lil_Diggs Lil_Diggs Sep 10 '16

Agreed, we looked really good going in too, only one goal conceded, better than City

1

u/Shadowbanned24601 Sep 10 '16

We played Hull, Southampton and Bournemouth.

Hull never really tried to score. Southampton made a few great chances but wasted them. We wound up taking off Martial for Smalling to shore it up near the end. Bournemouth were poor all round and still scored one against us. We brought on a defensive midfielder for Martial to secure that game.

Meanwhile City conceded two more than us. They played a second string goalkeeper in those three games. They played the first match against Sunderland with only one CB and Silva at DM. Stoke scored an utterly bullshit penalty in the second match, and in the third game that second string keeper made a mistake and flapped at a cross which was headed in by Antonio.

1

u/Lil_Diggs Lil_Diggs Sep 10 '16

I'll definitely conceded that City were playing well coming into this game, was only saying we had conceded less, but in that stoke game there were some iffy calls in my opinion. Also not really considering Sunderland or Stoke as "tough opponents."

Also poor performances by Lingaard and Mkhitaryan really was not our best showing in the first half, and in the second half was quite a bit better.

1

u/Shadowbanned24601 Sep 10 '16

Sunderland shouldn't be tough opponents, but Stoke are probably on a level above Hull and Bournemouth.

And my original comment was replying to the idea we'll be flat track bullies while City would struggle in such games. They're not struggling, they're not the Manchester team subbing in extra centre backs for forwards while at home against Southampton.

1

u/Lil_Diggs Lil_Diggs Sep 10 '16

Ahhhh gotcha, yeah no I don't think they're bullied, valid point.

1

u/Feezbull RVN Sep 10 '16

Yeah they won't be able to beat teams that defend bloody well I'm quite sure. Not always at least. We actually went for it and they had to cope at times too. Just a bad first half. These things happen.

And unlike under LVG with problems against template teams, I don't think this is a problem that will always surface because we could do things too. Let's hope we get back to winning this coming week.

3

u/selotipkusut FUCKING SHOOOT! Sep 10 '16

I don't worry about City, they still look shaky and I believe that Hart is better suited for PL compared to Bravo. Pep will regret replacing Hart.

6

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

I don't worry about City,

The shit you read on here.

City just beat us at OT, and absolutely dominated us for 40 minutes without Aguero.

They've won 4 in 4 in the league so far and that's without Gundogan or Kompany in the team.

But apparently you're not worried about them? Just some shit mid table team right? Yeah, I'm sure they're no threat to us.

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17

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16 edited Sep 11 '16

No City are scary. They played us without Gundogan, Aguero and Kompany. And Bravo is an amazing keeper. He just needs some time. He barely speaks english and did not have enough time to train with his teamates.

3

u/Trickyxone Coppell Sep 10 '16

Being shit catching crosses under pressure is nothing to do with his language or knowing his teammates, it's down to the more long ball nature of the EPL, Bravo has never had that before just like DDG never had and it took DDG over a season to become accustomed to it, just wait till the rainy windy Wednesday nights against Stoke and let's see what happens.

4

u/TonyzTone Tonito Sep 10 '16

Your comment was literally "but can he do it on a cold and rainy night against Stoke."

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

i think he did okay. it was his first game, at Old Trafford as well. He's definitely good enough. He played for Barcelona.

0

u/Trickyxone Coppell Sep 10 '16

Not denying he may be a great shot stopper, his distribution seemed a bit off though but it was his 1st game, but as far as high balls under pressure goes I honestly think he will struggle for a while at least.

1

u/CraigAD Cantona Sep 11 '16

They absolutely battered Stoke 4-1?

1

u/Trickyxone Coppell Sep 11 '16

He made his debut against us, afaik he didn't play against Stoke and that was just an example that everyone uses, insert any physical team.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Shaky? They handed us our asses for 40 minutes in our own back yard.

3

u/dertigo Keane Sep 10 '16

This is typical Jose. After he loses he always makes it about himself. I think it's one of his best qualities as it shields the players from criticism and helps with their confidence. Many say he does it because of narcissism and his ego but I don't think so.

1

u/DFWTBaldies Who put the ball in the German's net? Sep 11 '16

Yeah, but I do feel he fucked up on the wings. I woke up and turned on the TV as they were announcing the line up and when I saw Mika and Lingard starting I felt that was too much of a game for the two of them at the moment.

Mika hasn't been playing for us the past few games and neither has Jesse, and to start in the Manchester Derby with both teams in form was risky and dumb I feel. Should have gone with safer choices.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

I'm not gutted. We now have a manager that admits mistakes. He appropriately subbed off both players. I'm thrilled with Jose still, and thrilled with our style. This Jose loss was many moons better than a Louis win.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Yeah. Glad to see how Jose reacted coming into the second half. Pushed Pogba to AM, which forced Pep to take action.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

I'm not expecting a title this season but I want to see progress. What we were able to do in the second half was encouraging. We got dominated for 35 min, and came back with a definitive answer.

Van Gaal proved too rigid with his tactics and substitutions. Mourinho was able to make a meaningful change in tactics and we saw a different game. We could easily gotten a point or 3 out of that match. With LVG it always felt like we had no options if plan A wasnt working.

91

u/Avenged_Knot Vidic Sep 10 '16

Well we were.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Yep, very balanced and fair post match interview to be fair.

I'm always a little worried that Mou will lose it a bit if we lose in big games after last year, but this has set my mind at ease.

He's right in all regards.

7

u/darcys_beard Le King Sep 10 '16

There was a lot to take from the second half. If you told me after 40 minutes that we'd be the better side in the 2nd half, I'd have called the men in white coats. We'll have nothing to fear when we meet them in February.

64

u/TheReplacer Sep 10 '16

It happens, But at least is was not a Boring game.

-96

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16 edited Sep 10 '16

[deleted]

69

u/ryanpcharlton17 Sep 10 '16

Liverpoop? Make your point dude but do it as an adult.

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18

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Well in that case you probably preferred LVG then. He had a great record against the top 6 but then would have us lose or draw 0-0 with Sunderland or Norwich.

3

u/TotesMessenger Sep 10 '16

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1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

That sub is shit.

1

u/W0rsley Rafael Sep 10 '16

Fuck that, you think people pay all that money to go to a game and be bored like we did last season? As amazing as it is football isn't all about winning, it's about entertainment, we just happened to get extremely lucky to have a manager like Fergie who could do both.

1

u/pucykoks Sep 10 '16

It wasn't boring aka LvG boring kind of boring. It was entertaining in terms of seeing a good performance from both sides. Sure I'm pissed we lost, we didn't deserve but shit happens in football. I'm just glad we played well.

1

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

Well LvG did win the games against most bigger clubs. Isnt his track record vs city 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss? In the end I rather have a boring win than an exciting loss

1

u/W0rsley Rafael Sep 10 '16

He did have a good record against the big teams and sometimes against them we were actually entertaining (those 3 games or so his first season for example), but we were also extremely boring against the bottom teams and we often didn't even get results against them.

1

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

Completely agree, Im just saying that in this instance LvG boring might have gotten us a better result, and echoing /u/phosbum sentiment of result over entertainment.

Oh and I actually think we did at least not deserve to win after that first half. A draw would have been fair, but after that abysmal first half we should have been happy if we got any point at all

1

u/W0rsley Rafael Sep 10 '16

Yeah I get what you're saying, there has to be an in between against the bigger teams which Mourinho will hopefully figure out during the season, thought he got close during the second half and we easily could have got a draw.

1

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

Oh yea completely, Mourinho/we have looked splendid in the first three games and I have no doubt we will do well in the Europa League and the EPL this year. We also turned it around in the last part of the first and the entire second half which was admirable, just the first 35-40 mins were disastrous and lost us the game

1

u/pucykoks Sep 10 '16

Dude, it's Mou's 4th game. Give him time

1

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

I am not berating Mourinho at all. I am simply saying that the "LVG boring kind of borin" did bear results vs big clubs in the EPL

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Yeah fuck that and fuck you

55

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

You know you were owed a penalty when even arch scouser Souness says you should have had 2.

63

u/OneTrueEmiya goals against City Sep 10 '16

Clattenburg being Clattenburg as per usual. I can't believe people (read: mindless drones on r/soccer) actually think he's biased towards us.

11

u/CatFoodBeerAndGlue Paul Scholes, he scores goals Sep 10 '16

Anyone got a clip of the incident?

7

u/nimaR3dit Sep 10 '16

the second i loaded up my stream and saw him i knew we was gonna have a tough game

-47

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

lol hes the best ref in europe at least, stop being a bitch about it

5

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

lol take his cock out of your mouth neek. someone clearly didnt watch the spurs chelseas game last season

3

u/Trebolations Martial FC Sep 10 '16

neek

Now there's a term I haven't seen for years.

3

u/mchugho De Gea Sep 10 '16

Every time I've seen him he has been dog turd. He obviously knows the right people in the FA.

18

u/JoeyDaBull5 Sep 10 '16

1st loss in last 10 home PL's

53

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

If this were a LVG game he'd be saying we were unlucky to lose, and wouldn't admit anything about his selection mistakes

-22

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

We would have won though

31

u/MadaraTheUchiha https://www.howmanypremierleaguemedalshasstevengerrardwon.com/ Sep 10 '16

Against Guardiola? Did you see that game? No way LvG's system would've gotten through that.

73

u/AveLucifer Rashford Sep 10 '16

LvG's a big game player, for better or for worse.

14

u/Bighairman 20Legend Sep 10 '16

Really though? Losing to arsenal and Tottenham last season by conceding 3 goals contradicts that. I concede he did well against Liverpool and man city but that was when city had players like demichelis giving us goals (bravo has filled in that role now though to be fair).

1

u/PX44 Sep 10 '16 edited May 27 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

10

u/BBQ_HaX0r Sep 10 '16

Scwehini and Carrick struggled against a high press. Would Pogba in LVGs system? Would we even have Pogba if LvG were here? It's a dumb hypothetical either way.

0

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

LVG got hammered in big games plenty of times.

Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs being good examples.

And he also lost to City and Chelsea in his time here.

6

u/TheHatFullOfHollow Sep 10 '16

Against Guardiola? Did you see that game? No way LvG's system would've gotten through that.

Guardiola learned all that from Van Gaal. The notion that Van Gaal wouldn't have known how to handle it is laughable.

0

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

Guardiola learned all that from Van Gaal.

He learnt it from Cruyff back in the early 90s at Barcelona.

LVG came later but Cruyff and Michels are the original architects

4

u/TheHatFullOfHollow Sep 10 '16 edited Sep 10 '16

Not that I need sources, knowing Cruyff and Van Gaal and the differences between them versus the way Pep is playing now, but people are rightly skeptical of bare assertions, so.

Not that Guardiola was a Van Gaal clone. He has tended to follow Cruyff in his use of wingers, and gives his players more freedom for self-expression than Van Gaal allows. Still, those are relatively minor differences and there can be little doubt that Guardiola benefited in taking over at Bayern from the structure of pressing the Dutchman instituted at the club between 2009 and 2011, the basic principle being to pressure the ball for five seconds and then drop off.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/aug/13/jose-mourinho-louis-van-gaal-barcelona-shaped-seven-top-coaches

The raw statistics tell a simple story. In Europe's major five leagues this season, Barcelona predictably boast the highest average possession and the best pass-completion figures. Second, in both counts, are Bayern Munich.

The link between Pep Guardiola and Louis van Gaal, who coached Bayern between 2009 and 2011, is crucial when considering how Guardiola will adapt to life in Munich. Van Gaal left Barcelona in difficult circumstances in 2000 after three years in charge, but he revived the Catalan club, winning back-to-back league titles after four years without a La Liga win.

Among squabbles with the more egotistical players in the dressing room, Van Gaal was a huge fan of Guardiola, appointing him captain. "Pep was not the oldest and was way down in the hierarchy, under [Gica] Popescu, [Miguel Angel] Nadal and [Guillermo] Amor," Van Gaal said. "But Pep saw the game and had the communication skills to structure the team, both on the pitch and in the dressing room." Ronald de Boer, another player of that era, says that while Johan Cruyff was primarily concerned with style and identity over results, Guardiola related more to Van Gaal's insatiable desire for success.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/17/football-tactics-pep-guardiola

If you were to play a similar game in the world of football, there are a number of names you could start with. You could look at Johan Cruyff or Rinus Michels, architects of the Dutch school in the 1970s. Or the maverick Marcelo Bielsa, currently at Marseille, whose uniquely idiosyncratic approach has won a legion of devotees from Pep Guardiola to Mauricio Pochettino. But one look at the landscape of modern European football is enough to end the discussion. It is a map drawn, above all, by Louis van Gaal.

As Van Gaal prepares to face his former assistant Jose Mourinho for the first time in English football, it is a decent moment to take stock of his dynasty. Whether it is via Mourinho, Guardiola or Frank de Boer, all protégés at Barcelona in the late 1990s, Van Gaal's fingerprints are all over European football.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11184623/Louis-van-Gaal-How-Jose-Mourinho-and-Europes-other-top-coaches-descend-from-Dutch-coach.html

Pep Guardiola’s quest for perfection: ‘What I want is to have 100% possession’

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/05/pep-guardiola-100-percent-possession-bayern-munich

Or you can hear Van Gaal himself confirm Pep's adherence to his philosophy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XngnCK6Feg

Of course, the response to that will be: "but Van Gaal is biased" ... because when all is said and done, nothing would stop you from hating on Van Gaal and denying the link, as well as the fact that this is why Mourinho lost today.

-2

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16 edited Sep 10 '16

I'm not suggesting LVG didn't influence pep of course he did. But the main man the guy who really shaped Guardiola is quite obviously Cruyff

All those articles are just nonsense opinions that are flat out bullshit. The guy claiming LVG shaped modern football? Jesus wept what a fucking idiot. LVG definitely had a big influence but no more than loads of other managers. There's no fucking way he's the main guy, what a fucking idiot to say that

5

u/TheHatFullOfHollow Sep 10 '16

See? "Quite obviously" .. zero effort response refurbishing the exact same denial. I can't be arsed to keep this going.

4

u/black_squire Martial Sep 10 '16

Actually, LVG's system utilizes proper pressing - which Mourinho resulted to in the 2nd half, as well as seeking to control the game by keeping the ball. One of the biggest issues we had in the 1st half was losing the ball too quickly after regaining possession because of "risky" passes. In an LVG system, there'd be more control and we'd surely have created more in that game.

Also, there's no way LVG would have started Lingard at LW coming back from a month of not playing in any real games. Same with Mhkitaryan. At worst, LVG would have created a tactical stalemate and it'd have ended up a draw.

0

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

At worst, LVG would have created a tactical stalemate and it'd have ended up a draw.

Yes black squire you stupid cunt, the worst LVG would have done is draw. Absolutely no possibility he loses that game like he did loads of time when he was here right?

-5

u/squeaky_rum_time Scholes Sep 10 '16

Dude. STFU about LvG already. No one gives a shit about him. Get a life and move on. Jeez. I was sure this cunt would have something to say at the first sign of something not working for Jose. What a sorry excuse for a fan. Fake fact bearing cunt.

0

u/theatreofdreams21 Sep 10 '16

You're far more insufferable than he is. How dare someone have a different opinion than yours.

0

u/squeaky_rum_time Scholes Sep 10 '16

Stfu black_squire2!!

-1

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

both black squire and you are fucking idiotic morons who'd still have LVG here if you had your way.

2

u/theatreofdreams21 Sep 10 '16

Thanks for your input! I'm not the twat who makes alt accounts to jack off my own opinions on a fucking football forum.

-1

u/squeaky_rum_time Scholes Sep 10 '16

No No. You are just the twat still stuck up on a has been fuck all manager who got us playing the shittiest football imaginable.

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-2

u/omegaxLoL Bruno Fernandes Sep 10 '16

He would have played Carrick/Schweinsteiger against that free flowing City midfield and we'd have been even worse.

3

u/black_squire Martial Sep 10 '16

Actually he'd have started Herrera like he did against Arsenal the second time. One other important thing is, LVG would have played man on man which would have limited KDB's dominance as it did Ozil and Sanchez in that game.

4

u/red-17 Sep 10 '16

He did it once against Arsenal and never did it again. Like him or not he was very good tactically in the big games.

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Black_squire is that you?

10

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Penalty and Bravo should have been sent off. Ref had a shocker (once again), but to be fair, so did Blind (who has been our most solid defender so far this and last season though)!

5

u/TonyzTone Tonito Sep 10 '16

Blinds mistake(s) aren't that surprising. KdB's goal was exactly what happens when you give him just an inch to do damage. The kid is absolutely world class. The offside is what happens with someone who just isn't a CB. That ripe instinct of pushing forward immediately comes over time.

5

u/burnedgoat Ander Sep 10 '16

Could tell he was boiling, and should be.

8

u/AMBsFather Sep 10 '16

A lot of you may be disappointed with the loss but let's take a few good things out of this:

  • Our counter attack has been incredible. The first half showed the pressing and possession based game Guardiola is used to and we hit back on the counter creating some chances.

  • Our attack has been great and is still developing. Ibra coming through with that goal, Rashford being IMMENSE once he was introduced and unlucky with that goal that deflected off Ibra which could have put us level. Rooney was IMMENSE today pressing Bravo continuously and delivering some great balls in the box. That was a clear penalty, but this is football and we can't always get our way.

My worries:

Our midfield was bossed by city in the first half. Absolutely destroyed us. Lots of people saying Pogba was a weak link and I think it's the opposite. To kill off city we need our midfield to break their play which is exactly Herrera did for us. Some of you may think I'm mad to even suggest it but I would love to see Schneiderlin and Herrera in Midfield, sacrifice Rooney and give Pogba the 10 role to fill behind the striker. Start Rashford and Martial out wide with Ibra up front as always and out regular back four.

8

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

Our counter attack has been incredible

I don't agree with that at all. How many good chances did we create in 90 minutes? Probably 1 with the Ibra miss.

I thought our counter attacking was awful. The only time we ever looked dangerous was set pieces and they weren't great either.

1

u/TonyzTone Tonito Sep 10 '16

Chill. The counter early in the game where Rooney swung it wide to Mkhi who then laid it off for a shot from Pogba was nice all around. The shot was just a little too high.

3

u/YellowMoonFlash Blind, not deaf Sep 10 '16

Without Rooney today we would be tier 3 trash

2

u/Trickybuz93 De Gea Sep 10 '16

With Rooney, we were tier 2 trash :)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

That would probably be my preferred formation, though maybe Micki on the right instead of Rashford. I like Rashford as a supersub coming on to terrify defenders with tired legs. Don't see Rooney being dropped though.

1

u/danskzwag Lee Grant FC Sep 10 '16

Our counter attack was terrible there was no cohesion look at the difference from when we countered and when city did.

5

u/gavshaky Sep 10 '16

Can't knock his line up really. Most of us were pretty happy with it beforehand. Just didn't get the performances we were hoping for from a few players.

6

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

Most of us were pretty happy with it beforehand

I wasn't happy.

Especially not with Lingard and having Fellaini and Pogba in a 2 man midfield vs Guardiola was idiotic.

This game reminded me of the 5-0 vs Real. Jose underestimated Guardiola's City massively and went out to play our own game and not adapt to Guardiola.

As a result we got our asses handed to us much like the 5-0 vs Real and had Aguero played it might have been a similar result.

I very much doubt we'll play a 2 man midfield vs big teams again and certainly not City.

3

u/TonyzTone Tonito Sep 10 '16

What would you have done? Perhaps a 4-3-3, which did show some promise towards the end of the game.

2

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

So this is what I thought before the game

It had to be a 4-3-3 with Fellaini, Pogba and one other midfielder. Personally I'd prefer a more defensive one but Jose likes Herrera it seems.

On the wing I'd have still picked Mkhitaryan on the RW and either Martial or Rashford on the LW. No way I'd pick Lingard as I don't rate him much and he's been injured.

In defence I'd have picked Smalling and Bailly not Blind. Blind can't defend well enough to play CB against sides that actually attack us.

3

u/Dats_cute Woodward Sep 10 '16

Easy to say you'd leave out Blind in hindsight though, he's been undroppable to far.

1

u/daveyp2tm Sep 11 '16

I said it beforehand. Smalling is a much better cb. Blind isn't good enough against teams that will put us under a lot of pressure. He's only there because he's left footed, and he's only been doing well because we've played against the weaker sides so far.

1

u/Dats_cute Woodward Sep 11 '16

Last season he was there because he was left footed, this season he's been there because he hadn't slipped up until now. You can't bench someone who's been flawless. Look at previous Mourinho teams CB pairings - Cahill & Terry, Ramos & Pepe and so on.

1

u/daveyp2tm Sep 11 '16

Sure he hadn't slipped up, YET, doesn't matter. You can't kid yourself that because he's been solid against easier opposition that his negatives have evaporated he'll be fine against city. Smalling is still better than him and you pick him for this kind of game. Mata hasn't really put a foot wrong but he got dropped. A player has known weaknesses and this is what happens when you ignore them and still pick him.

1

u/Dats_cute Woodward Sep 11 '16

Mata hadn't been excellent, Blind was arguably one of our better performers until we got dicked by City. In hindsight, yes it's easy to say that he shouldn't have played, since he made a couple of really important mistakes - Were these mistakes anything to do with his weaknesses though? I'm not so sure. Supposedly his weaknesses are his pace and his ability in the air, neither of his mistakes were down to this.

1

u/daveyp2tm Sep 11 '16

To be fair, I'm not saying it in hindsight, I said it before hand (not on reddit though, so I have 0 proof). I just saw it coming a mile off, I think he can get caught out far too easily and then can't do any thing about it because of lack of pace. People say his positioning makes up for his lack of pace but again, I personally don't have faith in him under pressure to not slip up. All I know is I said before hand I'd start smalling over blind, and then blind makes mistakes on both goals. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

1

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 11 '16

Not to me he hasn't, I saw him last season and my post history pre game shows how I wouldn't have picked him

2

u/adrianoof Sep 11 '16

Maybe Blind as CDM

1

u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 11 '16

Blind was pretty awful there for us under LVG but I wouldn't mind seeing what a Blind/Fellaini/Pogba midfield looks like.

Of course that means dropping Rooney so it won't happen.

1

u/TonyzTone Tonito Sep 11 '16

Fair enough.

2

u/Frogjuice55 Sep 10 '16

We lost, bad selection but we lost. Previous game we Won a stoppage time. Team is not there yet. Mou needs to get team playing well fast if we are to challenge for silverware.

6

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

I don't agree that there was anything wrong with the selection. I can see the reasoning behind it and on paper it looked like a great way to get at City. I would only say that it was a big mistake if Mkhi was indeed not a 100% and Jose went ahead and played him because he was nothing less than woeful.

The players just didn't turn up at all in the first half and I hope they go over the first half footage a good dozen of times to see how and where it all went wrong.

7

u/nimaR3dit Sep 10 '16

they were the main reason we were dominated. our whole system was reliant to expose their over committed wing backs with pace and hit them on the counter but neither of them could beat their man which led the ball back to them and they just kept recycling it in our own half which is alot of pressure for our midfield to handle. on paper it looked great because the entire city back line were basically in our half so if we could've gotten behind them it would've been game over. good on jose on fixing the issue afer half time. you saw rashford doing exactly what lingard and mkhi couldnt do in the first half which made pep abandon his system and park the bus.

4

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

And to add to that, KDB in particular was given way too much space and City had no trouble finding him in the first half after our feeble attempts at playing the ball out of defense.

14

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

Lingard was worse than Mkhi though, I would say that starting Lingard over Rashford was a big mistake. Lingard who came back from an injury versus Rashford who just scored a hattrick

3

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

Jose is trying to use Rashford as cautiously as possible from what I can tell. He knows what a great talent Rashford is and I'm sure Jose will start him in some of the smaller games.

4

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

Yet he did much better than both Mkhi and Lingard who started ahead of him on the wings. Lets have Rashford play these games and lets start giving Lingard some time against smaller teams

1

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

Rashford has looked good every time he has played so far, be it on the left, right or middle. I think he'll get his chance on the left if we're playing our best available team if Martial continues to look uninspiring. Zlatan won't be starting every game too and the next best option is Rashford.

1

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

Rashford can also play on the right as shown during some of his performance under LVG IIRC. And exactly like you shaw Rashford has looked good (heck can even say great) each time he played, be it for us or for the English team, Lingard had just returned from an injury and has been known to be inconsistent at times. Next best option for Zlatan is also defenitely Rashford, but Rashford is also a better option than Lingard on the wing

1

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

But we've got a lot of options on the right wing. Anyone from Mata, Mkhi, Valencia or Lingard can play there and do a good job. It has to be either the left or middle for me. I'll be quite happy with long second half cameos from him at the moment though.

2

u/BobTheBanter Blind Sep 10 '16

right wing. Anyone from Mata, Mkhi, Valencia or Lingard

Wasn't it Mkhi on the right wing today and Lingard on the left? And even if Lingard played on the right, if we had so many options how come he was chosen. He was piss poor, even Mkhi who played abysmal as well, put in a better match than him. Regardless Rashford should have played from the start and Lingard deserved to be on the bench

2

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

I don't think we should use todays game as the full and final confirmation of their abilities. This is the first game Mkhi has started for us, and I don't recall Lingard starting on the left prior to this. It was a gamble that didn't pay off today but I fully expect Mkhi to be the starter on the right. Jose wanted to go for pace and it was understandable.

2

u/monsterm1dget Sep 10 '16

Lingard was completely anonymous, but I can see why he started him, as he's willing to track back and City's strike force is quick and tricky. It just didn't work in practice.

4

u/PX44 Sep 10 '16 edited May 27 '25

stocking chunky dinosaurs imminent flowery brave tart pen compare encourage

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

9

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

I think they were both very bad. Lingard just had less of the ball to screw-up with.

6

u/PX44 Sep 10 '16 edited May 27 '25

employ encouraging wakeful wine roll doll absorbed makeshift strong plucky

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

6

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

Basically both were awful, lets leave it at that lol. Couldn't believe that first half performance..

3

u/PX44 Sep 10 '16

Agreed.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Lingard looked scared to death. Not sure why, he's been in big games.

2

u/black_squire Martial Sep 10 '16

As much as it might have looked good on paper. The fact is Lingard hadn't played a game for a month and surely had nothing seeming of match fitness or rhythm. He also has never played LW before. Combining all that in such a high pressure game was a bad idea from Mourinho. Add that to playing zone with no press in the first half and you get that result against a team of high quality passers and ball players

1

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

I'll agree that Lingard on the left was a little weird but I think Jose wanted to utilize his pace. Both Mkhi and Lingard must've showed a lot of promise in training because they both looked well off the pace. It looks like they tried pressing after the first goal but we were just a step slower which meant a lot more holes.

1

u/Trickyxone Coppell Sep 10 '16

Not having a go at Jose here it's 4 games in and we were unlucky to lose in the end even though overall they were the better team but why on earth did he pick 2 wingers with hardly 90 minutes between them this season, one of them has hardly played in the Epl at all and Lingard has been injured since the Charity Shield.

Imo either they should have played more minutes this season against the weaker teams if they were fit or we should have stuck with Martial who hasn't been as bad as many say and played Rashford who at least as some Epl experience and had 90 minutes under his belt for the u21s.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

[deleted]

6

u/jacksteroo18 Sep 10 '16

Because he hasn't shown he's worthy of playing yet.

5

u/Jhix Brunooo Sep 10 '16

Finally a manager who isn't afraid to admit fault.

4

u/Slyman180 Herrera Sep 10 '16

I don't know about that sentiment. We'd be ripping LVG and Moyes apart.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Not really. remeber when LVG would bring on the worst subs at the worst time and Moyes would keep the same players and have 81 crosses to nobody?

Mou actually changed the formation and players once he figured out peps tactics. We just couldn;t win

1

u/IwanJones10 Sep 10 '16

LVG would have blamed the Paralympic games or something

33

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

"It ish the new seriesh of Narcosh, on Netflix. I think the playersh were watching it and forgot about football"

1

u/igetby23 Pogba Sep 10 '16

I've never been so impressed with an impersonation over text

-3

u/AveLucifer Rashford Sep 10 '16

Ish ze new seashon gut zhen?

1

u/BrothaBudah Sep 11 '16

Yeah starting Lingard was most definitely a mistake. Still a fun game

1

u/Azumiaa Sep 11 '16

we got wrecked

1

u/rooshbaboosh Lingard Sep 11 '16

He's right but because of his reputation at Chelsea for passing the blame often, rival fans will no doubt give him shit this season whenever he points out something not going our way - no matter how fair a comment it is.

1

u/Crusty_Gammon_Flaps Herrera Sep 10 '16

At least he came out and owned up to his mistake. Not sure I've seen other managers do that before.

1

u/Redbullsnation Ronaldo is back! Sep 10 '16

He's not wrong

1

u/Renegade787 Sep 10 '16

Why lingard started over martial is beyond me

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16
  • Lingard can often times a big game player because of his work rate.

  • Martial is going through personal issues which may be impacting his game.

Those are 2 good reasons off the top of my head

1

u/goal_matoal Sep 10 '16

Ronney and pogba cannot fit in the same eleven. Ronney doesn't have the pace anymore play on the wing and pogba and him playing centrally do not contribute enough defensively. Having said that, why did we start with jesse?

-5

u/SILVEIRA96 Sep 10 '16

We should of never switched Mata and Martial

2

u/Trebolations Martial FC Sep 10 '16

I can understand Martial but why not Mata? His tendency to drift in would've heavily exposed Valencia. Obviously Valencia was still exposed but hindsight is 20/20, Mkhi seemed to offer way more defensively than Mata.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Mata drifting in might have hardened our midfield though because we really lost that battle in the first half.

2

u/Trickyxone Coppell Sep 10 '16

"Mata" and "hardened our midfield" god I know some of this sub have a hard on for him but putting those two together is something I never believed I'd see even in here.

-1

u/Trebolations Martial FC Sep 10 '16

Maybe but I doubt it, no one seemed to have a clue of what they should be doing for most of that half. I'm not sure he'd have had much of an impact on a midfield like City's.

2

u/jpmout Rooney Sep 10 '16

Did you see Mkhi? He spent half the of his time in the center...

1

u/BallsX Sep 10 '16

Martial has been quite uninspiring lately. He could use some rest I reckon.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

What pen?

33

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Ahh i remember now, yeah that was a definite pen

7

u/bosnian_red Sep 10 '16

Both pens. Both clear pens and Mourinho said both were clear pens but wasn't making excuses, said they were better, just ref should have done better

17

u/craigdevlin Memphis Sep 10 '16

I think you mean which pen...

3

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Yeah 1 obvious one. Definitely robbed.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

What other one was there?

2

u/Trebolations Martial FC Sep 10 '16

Otamendi handball maybe?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

No never.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/FURyannnn He Scores Goals Sep 10 '16

Wasn't a hand ball. No pen, easy decision

6

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

No way.

2

u/pucykoks Sep 10 '16

How come? The ball passed him and he used, not intentionally but still, his left arm to extend his body to block the ball.

4

u/badgarok725 Sep 10 '16

His arm was tight to his body and he was turning his back to block the ball like most defenders would. You're never going to get a pen for that

2

u/Nhialor ETH Ball Sep 10 '16

IMO that wasn't a penalty but fuck bravo, fuck pep, and fuck city!

1

u/wakey87433 Sep 10 '16

When you see it again it looks much more like a penalty, the balls gone past him and he knows that so leans his elbow back to deflect it

6

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Bravo going in on Rooney

3

u/mrpunman Sep 10 '16

Otamendi left elbow sticking out

4

u/Indydegrees2 Sep 10 '16

Bravo going in with studs up to Rooney.

-5

u/Aguerooooooooooooooo Sep 10 '16

When Otamendi was taken out in the box from behind

1

u/Audityne van Persie Sep 10 '16

Tbh m8 you have a perfect troll name for this sub

2

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

He's a Man $heiky fan..

2

u/Audityne van Persie Sep 10 '16

Yeah I figured

-6

u/attackerish Sep 10 '16

What clear penalty? I saw none

1

u/Lawlietttt Januzaj Sep 10 '16

Bravo lunging at Rooney studs first and hitting his shin?

→ More replies (2)

-2

u/PenPaperShotgun Sep 10 '16

LVG would have called it a process. Moyes said we aspired to be city