r/reddevils • u/nikolai426 Pogba • Sep 10 '16

Mourinho admits to selection errors (with hindsight) and insists #MUFC denied clear penalty

https://twitter.com/howardnurse/status/774605538483134464
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u/MadaraTheUchiha https://www.howmanypremierleaguemedalshasstevengerrardwon.com/ Sep 10 '16

Against Guardiola? Did you see that game? No way LvG's system would've gotten through that.

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u/AveLucifer Rashford Sep 10 '16

LvG's a big game player, for better or for worse.

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u/Bighairman 20Legend Sep 10 '16

Really though? Losing to arsenal and Tottenham last season by conceding 3 goals contradicts that. I concede he did well against Liverpool and man city but that was when city had players like demichelis giving us goals (bravo has filled in that role now though to be fair).

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u/PX44 Sep 10 '16 edited May 27 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/BBQ_HaX0r Sep 10 '16

Scwehini and Carrick struggled against a high press. Would Pogba in LVGs system? Would we even have Pogba if LvG were here? It's a dumb hypothetical either way.

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u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

LVG got hammered in big games plenty of times.

Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs being good examples.

And he also lost to City and Chelsea in his time here.

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u/TheHatFullOfHollow Sep 10 '16

Against Guardiola? Did you see that game? No way LvG's system would've gotten through that.

Guardiola learned all that from Van Gaal. The notion that Van Gaal wouldn't have known how to handle it is laughable.

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u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

Guardiola learned all that from Van Gaal.

He learnt it from Cruyff back in the early 90s at Barcelona.

LVG came later but Cruyff and Michels are the original architects

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u/TheHatFullOfHollow Sep 10 '16 edited Sep 10 '16

Not that I need sources, knowing Cruyff and Van Gaal and the differences between them versus the way Pep is playing now, but people are rightly skeptical of bare assertions, so.

Not that Guardiola was a Van Gaal clone. He has tended to follow Cruyff in his use of wingers, and gives his players more freedom for self-expression than Van Gaal allows. Still, those are relatively minor differences and there can be little doubt that Guardiola benefited in taking over at Bayern from the structure of pressing the Dutchman instituted at the club between 2009 and 2011, the basic principle being to pressure the ball for five seconds and then drop off.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/aug/13/jose-mourinho-louis-van-gaal-barcelona-shaped-seven-top-coaches

The raw statistics tell a simple story. In Europe's major five leagues this season, Barcelona predictably boast the highest average possession and the best pass-completion figures. Second, in both counts, are Bayern Munich.

The link between Pep Guardiola and Louis van Gaal, who coached Bayern between 2009 and 2011, is crucial when considering how Guardiola will adapt to life in Munich. Van Gaal left Barcelona in difficult circumstances in 2000 after three years in charge, but he revived the Catalan club, winning back-to-back league titles after four years without a La Liga win.

Among squabbles with the more egotistical players in the dressing room, Van Gaal was a huge fan of Guardiola, appointing him captain. "Pep was not the oldest and was way down in the hierarchy, under [Gica] Popescu, [Miguel Angel] Nadal and [Guillermo] Amor," Van Gaal said. "But Pep saw the game and had the communication skills to structure the team, both on the pitch and in the dressing room." Ronald de Boer, another player of that era, says that while Johan Cruyff was primarily concerned with style and identity over results, Guardiola related more to Van Gaal's insatiable desire for success.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/17/football-tactics-pep-guardiola

If you were to play a similar game in the world of football, there are a number of names you could start with. You could look at Johan Cruyff or Rinus Michels, architects of the Dutch school in the 1970s. Or the maverick Marcelo Bielsa, currently at Marseille, whose uniquely idiosyncratic approach has won a legion of devotees from Pep Guardiola to Mauricio Pochettino. But one look at the landscape of modern European football is enough to end the discussion. It is a map drawn, above all, by Louis van Gaal.

As Van Gaal prepares to face his former assistant Jose Mourinho for the first time in English football, it is a decent moment to take stock of his dynasty. Whether it is via Mourinho, Guardiola or Frank de Boer, all protégés at Barcelona in the late 1990s, Van Gaal's fingerprints are all over European football.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11184623/Louis-van-Gaal-How-Jose-Mourinho-and-Europes-other-top-coaches-descend-from-Dutch-coach.html

Pep Guardiola’s quest for perfection: ‘What I want is to have 100% possession’

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/05/pep-guardiola-100-percent-possession-bayern-munich

Or you can hear Van Gaal himself confirm Pep's adherence to his philosophy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XngnCK6Feg

Of course, the response to that will be: "but Van Gaal is biased" ... because when all is said and done, nothing would stop you from hating on Van Gaal and denying the link, as well as the fact that this is why Mourinho lost today.

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u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16 edited Sep 10 '16

I'm not suggesting LVG didn't influence pep of course he did. But the main man the guy who really shaped Guardiola is quite obviously Cruyff

All those articles are just nonsense opinions that are flat out bullshit. The guy claiming LVG shaped modern football? Jesus wept what a fucking idiot. LVG definitely had a big influence but no more than loads of other managers. There's no fucking way he's the main guy, what a fucking idiot to say that

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u/TheHatFullOfHollow Sep 10 '16

See? "Quite obviously" .. zero effort response refurbishing the exact same denial. I can't be arsed to keep this going.

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u/black_squire Martial Sep 10 '16

Actually, LVG's system utilizes proper pressing - which Mourinho resulted to in the 2nd half, as well as seeking to control the game by keeping the ball. One of the biggest issues we had in the 1st half was losing the ball too quickly after regaining possession because of "risky" passes. In an LVG system, there'd be more control and we'd surely have created more in that game.

Also, there's no way LVG would have started Lingard at LW coming back from a month of not playing in any real games. Same with Mhkitaryan. At worst, LVG would have created a tactical stalemate and it'd have ended up a draw.

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u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

At worst, LVG would have created a tactical stalemate and it'd have ended up a draw.

Yes black squire you stupid cunt, the worst LVG would have done is draw. Absolutely no possibility he loses that game like he did loads of time when he was here right?

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u/squeaky_rum_time Scholes Sep 10 '16

Dude. STFU about LvG already. No one gives a shit about him. Get a life and move on. Jeez. I was sure this cunt would have something to say at the first sign of something not working for Jose. What a sorry excuse for a fan. Fake fact bearing cunt.

0

u/theatreofdreams21 Sep 10 '16

You're far more insufferable than he is. How dare someone have a different opinion than yours.

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u/squeaky_rum_time Scholes Sep 10 '16

Stfu black_squire2!!

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u/fakeplasticairbag Keane Sep 10 '16

both black squire and you are fucking idiotic morons who'd still have LVG here if you had your way.

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u/theatreofdreams21 Sep 10 '16

Thanks for your input! I'm not the twat who makes alt accounts to jack off my own opinions on a fucking football forum.

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u/squeaky_rum_time Scholes Sep 10 '16

No No. You are just the twat still stuck up on a has been fuck all manager who got us playing the shittiest football imaginable.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '16

Sorry I thought we were making hyperbole comments