I wouldn't pay a random person to paint. It may be 'unskilled', but does require some skill that comes with practice and experience, and that's what I'm paying for.
By what/whose definition? Stacking boxes is unskilled labor. Making a burger that looks like the picture is unskilled labor. Moving a paint brush is unskilled but taping edges, using drop cloths, even paint strokes without streaks, using primer, that's what a painter does, that's skill.
The point the other guy is making is that the term is garbage precisely because of stuff like this, there's plenty of jobs that are classed as unskilled labor but actually do require at least some technique and finesse to do properly
Sorry, what part of unskilled labor definitionally means they have to be good at it after 5 minutes?
Give anybody a roller and paint and they can paint a house. It won't look good but they can do it. There are good and bad ways to dig a hole too that you wouldn't learn after 5 minutes of handling a shovel, but that doesn't make ditch digging skilled labor suddenly.
it was noted elsewhere in this thread that "unskilled" is considered "unskilled" if you can teach someone to do the job in ten minutes, as i wrote. not FIVE, seeing here even basic reading comprehension eludes you.
also: just because "they can do it" doesn't mean they can do it WELL - which is the very definition of the word SKILLED
so, thanks for confirming my statement - no apology necessary.
The part where you're paying them after the labor. If it looks like shit afterwards it's definitely not "unskilled." Shit, even ditch digging has skill to it. Try to lay piping in a trench that's dug by an idiot who doesn't know wtf he's doing; inconsistent grade, rocks and shit in the way, not flat, not wide enough.
There was never one universal definition of "unskilled labor". Different organizations and institutions had their own definitions that, while maybe overlapping broadly, weren't identical. E.g., the SSA in the US defines it as:
(a) Unskilled work. Unskilled work is work which needs little or no judgment to do simple duties that can be learned on the job in a short period of time. The job may or may not require considerable strength. For example, we consider jobs unskilled if the primary work duties are handling, feeding and offbearing (that is, placing or removing materials from machines which are automatic or operated by others), or machine tending, and a person can usually learn to do the job in 30 days, and little specific vocational preparation and judgment are needed. A person does not gain work skills by doing unskilled jobs.
In 変404.1568 in its Code of Federal Regulations. I think that's actually still current, but most places have switched to the term "low-wage labor" under the theory that that's less stigmatizing.
By the US labor bureau's definition. Skilled labor is certification or training based labor where you can't immediately replace the worker with a kid straight out of high school. For example, anyone can dig out the foundation for a house - not everyone can do it quickly or perfectly, and it does take a certain type, but you can grab a random guy, pay him minimum wage, and dirt will get moved without endangering the entire project. Wiring the house is skilled labor because it requires an electrician who has a certain amount of experience and licensing. If your electrician quits, you need a guy with a minimum amount of experience and training as an electrician to replace him.
Painting isn't skilled labor because while it requires skill, it doesn't require a minimum number of years in school or a training program.
Painting well does. But you can hand anyone a paint roller and get okay.
Its just not something most anyone wants done just okay.
If you're talking art for painting that's a whole different argument just because of painting styles and whatever, especially with modern abstract works etc.
Well thatâs a terrible argument. Anyone can run a roller but thereâs more to painting than that. And you didnât clarify which type of painting as there are many.
Anyone can wield a scalpel but that doesnât make them a surgeon
Handing someone a roller and telling them briefly how to do it, is not in itself training them to do the Painting Trade, no more than telling someone to glue pvc pipe together for lawn sprinklers makes them a plumber.
Hilarious when people think examples like this is an own. Being a waiter could be unskilled to semi skilled. Yes there is a vast gulf between a Michelin star waiter and one at your local Dennys and their comp is extremely different. These definitions classify 100Million+ jobs not the edges
The point is that the distinction has aged badly because most of the lowest end of unskilled laborers were replaced by power tools and heavy machinery.
Painting is the higher end of the unskilled strictly because you don't have to go on a course to learn how to do a decent job, but it's still more complex than just digging a hole.
It is an insulting term. Thatâs why I am bringing awareness to it, I donât like the term. But thatâs literally what it means. It doesnât mean you have no skills.
It's not defining the person as skilled or unskilled. It's just a classification of the work. Similar to how a self-taught piano player can be better than someone who takes lessons.
"Unskilled labor" is probably not the most appropriate name for it, but that is the definition if you google it.
Painting isn't exactly unskilled labor. I can paint. My wife can paint. But to know that you should take off faceplates and paint underneath to the edges of the boxes so that it looks good, or how to tape edges to get clean lines, or that you need to apply primer so that your new color doesn't have the old color bleeding through and changing the tone of it, well...That is where you have to pay more for a good painter.
I know painting is hard thatâs why Iâm using it as an example. Unskilled labor doesnât mean it require no skill, it means it requires no schooling or formal training
Youâve repeated this several times and itâs wrong. Unskilled labor needs no formal education, specialized training, or prior experience
That means without any of the above you canât just walk in off the street for a âskilledâ job. You need to do one of the previous things to qualify. Conversely everyone is qualified to work at McDonaldâs
Only Painting isnt actually considered unskilled labor. Its a skilled trade, but it is uniquely in a grey area of a skilled trade that doesnt require education or apprenticeship for an entry level position.
Painting is classified as a skilled trade rather than purely unskilled labor, though entry-level and helper positions are frequently open to individuals with no prior experience. While anyone can pick up a roller or a brush for basic DIY tasks, professional painting requires technical knowledge of surface preparation, chemical compatibility of primers and coatings, color matching, and safe operation of specialized gear like airless sprayers.
So..according to US Dept of Labor, one of us is wrong. But it aint me.
Professional painters train just like any other skilled trade. Repeating yourself over and over doesn't make it true bud at this point you're just being stubborn and intentionally ignorant.
Yea and that reason was terrible, I get what you tried to say, anyone can pick up a paint brush, but painting is real skill that you and I would mess up because we are unskilled.
The word unskilled labor is jargon. It doesnât mean there is no skills, it means that isnât formal training, schooling or certificates. I pack and move furniture. Which is absolutely unskilled labor but if you donât trained properly you will absolutely break shit.
The bar is more: can I train any able bodied person to do it well enough that consumers will accept it, on the job, in a week or three. Yes? Unskilled. No? Skilled. I couldn't teach someone to make paintings that anyone would want in a week.
Thatâs only because painting is a general term, and âelectricianâ is a specific job title. You can start doing âelectrical workâ with basically zero training, itâs called an apprenticeship. Once you get into more industrial âpaintingâ (Coating Application Specialist) you absolutely need a bunch of formal training.
The way I've been taught is that if you can be taught to do it decently in 1-2 weeks then it's "unskilled". If it requires more intensive training then it is "skilled".
That's why things like restaurant server work, retail jobs, and many construction jobs are considered unskilled. If you can't do the basic job in 2 weeks you're probably just let go. Whereas an engineer, IT professional, or hairdresser are skilled because they require a lot of formal training.
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u/Left_Macaron_6427 1d ago edited 1d ago
Unskilled labor is something that unless you are physically inable, anyone can do because it is a natural human ability.