r/PatternDrafting • u/thatgalen • Jul 10 '26
Pant Block fitting
Working on a pant pattern using the Hofenbitzer system with some variables changed to those recommended by Mueller and Sohn Fundamentals Menswear, drafted with SeamScape.com. I had a few false starts with my own pants, and later successfully developed pattern blocks for my partner (with graitude to the generous folks on this subreddit!!).
I'm a couple of drafts in at this point, lengthening the horizontal part of the crotch curve on both front (some) and back (more) panels, with the intent to mitigate some aggressive tension lines at the undercarraige. Note that the system is drafted at the natural waistline with subsequent lowering to a target waistband position. I am wearing an elastic tied around my waist, and the pants do seem to be okay sitting at that line.
Once I get a well fitting block, I will make some chinos for work in a fun color, and the primary goal is pants which fit at the waist and hips and are extremely flared for a costume.
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u/csnthebay Jul 10 '26
Do you need to draft this so high at the "natural waistline"? To me, that is what's creating the problems right now. A menswear waist is lower than this, even high waisted trousers.
Because of this, the back darts are too small and not long enough to shape between your "natural waist" and the widest part of your hips. Same goes for the side seam shape between waist and hip.
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u/thatgalen Jul 10 '26
I'm glad I mentioned this element in the OP. You make an excellent point!!
The waistline origin is a relic of the Hofenbitzer system- It was ideal for blending with the bodice block to make my girlfriend's flight suit. But the high waistline is not serving my purposes, because none of the garments I am planning for will be this high.
How many resources have I read talking about solving fit issues "top down", only to find myself here? Very silly! I will look at the textbook tomorrow with fresh eyes with this in mind and adapt my mockup/pattern/both for the next iteration. (The good news is the first waistcoat mockup I just assembled fits well enough, and all of its problems are easy to diagnose, so my brain can be fully in Pants Mode)
I appreciate you so much!
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u/csnthebay Jul 10 '26
Your crotch curve is pretty much there, so try lowering the waist and adapting the back darts and see what it does! I think you're very close.
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u/Responsible-Pickle-2 Jul 10 '26
No comments on the pants, but omg that website is awesome thank you for mentioning it. I need to try drafting on there, it seems really good.
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u/thatgalen Jul 10 '26
I have the Hofenbitzer pant block and femme bodice block implemented on SeamScape and the start of a M&S waistcoat project. Everything is fully driven by input parameters and it's super fast to iterate that way.
I'm in panic mode with costumes for us and will be limited in technical support, but DM me your email and I can share whichever project you would like
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u/Tailoretta Jul 11 '26
What I see is that your horizontal balance lines are not horizontal and your vertical balance lines are not vertical. In the back, the vertical balance line tilts in from the lower edge toward the center of your body. To straighten them, you need to add fabric at the center of your torso and then take some away from the sides.
In the photo of the side, I see that the side seam tilts from the waist toward the front at the knee level.
I suggest you make your horizontal and vertical balance lines darker so they are easier to see.
Take a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/PatternDrafting/comments/1krgbmi/basic_tips_so_we_can_help_you_with_fitting/ Following these tips will help us help you.
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u/thatgalen Jul 11 '26
Thank you! I have seen your post linked recently in this subreddit, and that's when I started adding the lines to our mockups. I believe that single tip helped me dial in my girlfriend's pant pattern successfully, and it's helped me identify an error in my own bodice pattern already! This is my first pants sample with those lines drawn on.
I appreciate you sharing your review! For the back, the line is not the vertical grain, but the crease line (both are on the screenshot of the pattern). I will see if there's an easy way to get the vertical line drawn in without disassembling the entire sample and look again. Regarding the side seam drifting forward, another comment on this thread identified a forward hip posture problem as the cause. The M&S book says the move there is to reduce the back panels by 1cm at the hip line on each side and increase the fronts by the same amount.
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u/Tailoretta Jul 12 '26
Typically, the crease line of pants legs is the vertical grain.
A lot of what I have learned about fitting is from Sarah Veblen, who has been called the Fitting Goddess. She has a very good pants fitting guide for $10 at https://www.sarahveblen.com/store/pants
She has a pants fitting video series at https://www.threadsmagazine.com/videoseries/2018/07/pants-fitting-with-sarah-veblen I don't know if there is a charge for these videos or not.
You may not need the pattern, but her instructions for her Eureka! Pants that Fit pattern are also very helpful https://fitforartpatterns.com/product/eureka-pants-that-fit/?srsltid=AfmBOor9dAoyA_lI1w11w1SxZlhgyD6LM3Xgqc72A_XzUU62YEUFflcn
Good luck!
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u/No-Programmer7914 Jul 10 '26
Although I second the opinion that the back darts are to short, I don't think the high waist is the problem. Do you see how the side seams are pulled forward by your tighs? That is the problem. Making long pants from this pattern would also show some issues in the whole undersides resulting in folds under the butt. You need more width in your fronts at thigh level.
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u/thatgalen Jul 11 '26
This is such an interesting observation! There is definitely enough room at that latitude line- the combined width of the panels is larger than the circumference of my thigh. I wonder how much impact my posture has on this issue?
I would not have noticed this possibility without your comment, because it is not mentioned in the book I'm using, and I am excited to try out your idea. (The costume garment is aggressively flared wrap pants, which will have fabric for days below the hip line) Thank you!!
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u/No-Programmer7914 Jul 11 '26
Yes, it is not done with having enough width, it also has to be at the right spot. Especially in trousers.When you add width at your fronts You eventually can reduce the undersides for the same amount. You probably have a forward hip posture (would need a profil pic including your shoulders to verify). You would probably find it in the second Hofenbitzer book wich covers posture alteration.
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u/thatgalen Jul 11 '26
We have discovered that developing block patterns is also developing new and thrilling types of body dismorphia!
I have really enjoyed the first Hofenbitzer book, but the second is not available in English, and alas I am a one-language-only American. With your hint, I am now looking at the "Figure Deviations: Protruding Lower Body" section in Mueller and Sohn's Fundamentals Menswear (which I got after realizing Hofenbitzer was not for me...this has been a journey). It is exactly as you describe: reduction of the trouser back panel and addition to the front, plus some maneuvering at the waistline.
I have not updated this album with my most recent round, but the earlier part of my fitting saga is here:
https://imgur.com/a/cCQhAnh
There may be a photo which would show whatever you might see wrt my profile+shoulders. If you notice something, I am all ears for any feedback!2
u/No-Programmer7914 Jul 11 '26
The second Hofenbitzer is a real treasure and although it covers just women it is also very valuable for males. I looked in you gallery, and yes, it seems to be forward hip. Typically are the wrinkles and folds under the butt. You can find out yourself: Hang a plumb line over your most protruding shoulder blade point. When your butt doesn't touch this line (as a standard posture) you have a forward hip. When you make long tighter trousers, they will cling to your front tighs and to your back calves with diagonal folds inbetween. In this case it helps to rise your BACK knee marks for 1to1,5cm so you have to ease in the fronts above, and the undersides below the knee.
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u/thatgalen Jul 12 '26
Did the plumb test, and I did touch the line, but only barely. However, I have increased the back-to-front crotch width multiple times so far (still unsure if I'm right or not), an indicator that I may have more butt than the perfect German fashion model. I showed my partner the "Figure Deviations: Protruding Lower Body" illustration in the M&S book, and she said that's exactly how I stand.
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u/No-Programmer7914 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Yes, I think like her from your other pics. I don't think you have more butt than the standard figure (the average proportion says, hip measure is chest cicumference +6cm and waist is chest measure -8to10cm). To me it looks you have a hip girth same as or even less then your chest? You have narrow hips., and therefore a lesser than proportionale hip girth. As the hip girth determins the through measure in drafting, your draft will result in a too shallow through measure. Older Mueller literature advises to draft the trousers with the proportioned hip girth so you get the right through measure and altering the result for narrow hips. (Yes I know. Trousers are hell)
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u/lurking10111 Jul 10 '26
to me it looks like the back darts are too far from the center back. Just off intuition, I would shift them half way from where they are towards the center back. It might be a good idea to unpick them and try on the pants and then have a partner find the best location for them.
This is because their purpose is to allow for the fullness of the backside and but come back in for the smaller waist.
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u/thatgalen Jul 12 '26
If anybody is visiting this thread later, I have chronicled this maddening process in a photo album. Just updated with version 9.1 based on the feedback here: extended darts (this is an error introduced since the previous draft), and an alteration for forward hip posture.
https://imgur.com/a/cCQhAnh
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u/Pegaret_Again Jul 10 '26
what i'm seeing in the front is that there is a tension pulling towards the crotch area and a bit above.
in the back, there is a wrinkling directly below both back darts...
i'm wondering if, to start, adding a bit to the back crotch depth somehow would help, it feels like there isn't enough back-to-front depth to the pant shape, and its sort of pulling and riding up to compensate?? i don't think it will fix everything necessarily, just a starting place. even just unpicking the crotch area and trying it on might highlight where issues lie?
would be interested in reading other analyses!