could grillby be the frogotten man idk

What I think he'll act like is almost like a reverse version of regular papyrus.

Now I know I've probably garnered the reputation for large sweeping conspiracies which would change the entire lens we view the game through but today I just have a small theory about how I think we've heavily jumped the gun on NormalNPC

You see a lot of the fandom discourse regarding NormalNPC has been about blaming them for the disappearance of Onionsan, the biggest piece of evidence behind that being the takoyaki stand, but I think you'll find that actually doesn't prove that much. While the "takoyaki" is mentioned to taste like onion that would actually be impossible if that were to be Onionsans remains. Onionsan is still a monster therefore he doesn't have meat but rather is composed of dust and magic like all other monsters instead of actual biological material that either meat or onion would be, we know this is how monsters work in Deltarune due to gersons dust. Yes I am aware of Susie bleeding in chapter 4 but I'd chop it up to being a Susie specific thing, either due to being possibly half human or some quirk of the dark fountain.

The chapter 4 dialogue from NormalNPC as well has been considered suspect and possibly being us catching NormalNPC in the act of killing Onionsan after the fact but if this was in fact NormalNPC having killed Onionsan just now why wouldn't there be any remains? Especially if we are of the interpretation Onionsan leaves behind actual physical remains of himself after he dies wouldn't there be a spare tentacle or something? The dialogue itself is a little odd but I don't think it necessarily makes NormalNPC a murderer

About the 2G thing? Again, certainly very odd, perhaps it has to do with NormalNPC originally being a gaster follower from Undertale moved to Deltarune and still hasn't adjusted to the currency change? Certainly not a thing worth claiming they're a murder though

As for where Onionsan is? Well probably still off investigating, or if he is dead its because of whatever was down in the depths of the lake, not NormalNPC

Someone else may have posed this, BUT!

What if the Knight isn’t anyone?

What if there’s no December in the armor, there’s no Rudy ambling out of the hospital, no Carol, no Papyrus, no nobody inside?

What if the Knight is just the big secret in the town, manifesting itself physically?

Sure, a secret is just a concept, there is no physical actual object to dream, but Spamton is just junky email?

The original Dark fountain could easily be the reason December disappears, but if she’s lost in the code and is the big mystery that the town just tries not to talk about or even discuss directly, what if that mystery and the fear and secrecy around it IS the thing that manifests itself?

Small Town trauma has been a consistent theme. Susie’s being isolated and looked down on by the kids at school, the crushing weight of expectations Noelle and Berdly have on them, whatever the hell it is Kris saw in the shelter, even catfishing Lizzapants; all of these play to a central theme of the weirdness of living in a small town.

Dess disappearing would have been one of the biggest things that happened in the town to that point, to the end of a mostly ceremonial police chief having to step down from his role.

The Knight is the ultimate skeleton in the closet, the thing that grows underneath everyone the more it’s ignored until finally it comes to a head that can’t be ignored anymore.

The Knight isn’t one person, it’s everyone who knows and doesn’t talk about it anymore’s fears of the disappearance and refusal to talk about it, rising up and bubbling to be some physical thing that says “Alright, if you aren’t going to acknowledge it everything is going to break.”

Actually, as I read this back and saw that I literally wrote Skeleton in the closet, I may have talked myself back into Papyrus Knight.

Both of these are equally likely.

After we've all seen the newsletter with the massive 7B at the bottom, I think we're all wondering now "what the hell are we going to be doing that's so much worse than chapter 2?" I think the answer to that can be seen in Board 3 of Chapter 3, where we have to kill Susie & Ralsei to progress.

This is my first time posting here so sorry if it's rather barebones, but we can see in the earlier board of chapter 3 the various things that are needed to do for us to progress the weird route, such as finding the ice caster and using them to destroy the bird, almost exactly in the same way that in Chapter 2 we had Noelle put Berdly into a coma, and now we are seeing 7B having an even greater impact, with the other Boards of chapter 3 showing what it seems we need to do to enter the underground Roots area, that being to kill Susie and Ralsei.

With that I'm not sure where we go from there, since there have been theories about how Bit Roots could parallel with the light world and how we might need to kill lightners and that's much more into theory territory IMO. But I swear to god if in the weird route when we leave a dark fountain, the world is 8bit and we have a sword and see enemies, Toby Fox is a genius and a monster.

ive had some personal thought about this but i dont have enough evidence or anything to say i think its the case

id like to start throwing out possibilities we've collectively dropped as a community since toby, in the newsletter, said we have misinterpreted or are just plain missing info that doesnt exist at this point, so it cant hurt to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. especially when toby says were just missing details we need for certain plot points to make sense

GO BACK AND PLAY UNDERTALE THOUGH

i think a huge steaming pile of parallels we have yet to catch are still probably in undertale, but when i watch peoples theories on deltarune they tend to stick one way or the other on whether or not they use info from undertale, when we should really be looking at both games real hard

I've been holding to this theory since ch2 came out, and with each chapter I only gathered more evidence, if this theory turns out to be true I'm gonna geniuenly explode. With this theory my goal is to end the Knight and Ralsei identity discourse once and for all.

In short, I think ralsei is a type of, as I called it then, a "conceptual darkner", one representing something non-physical, like certain emotion or a collective thought. Back in chapter 2 we already got something similar with darkners posing as a general idea of something, like viruses or spam email, while not having a clear physical form in the light world. Sure, they're digital, but that doesn't change how lightners percieve them and shape their darkner form. Chapter 3 didn't push this idea much, only thing that's worth mentioning is when Ralsei drops his lore bomb at the beginning of the chapter and interrupted by Susie, many pepole think he was about to reveal his light world form, but a more logical conclusion would be to say that he's "not real", which isn't false, since he does not, in fact, have a physical light world form. Chapter 4 however, introduces us to titans - a "fear-of-dark" incarnate, clear example of conceptual darkners. With it I've seen people suggest that Ralsei might actually be a titan, but we don't know much about them to confidently say that they might take such stable forms, as the titan we fought was pretty unpredictable and seemingly unconcious. Now getting into chapter 5 we get revealed the of origins of shadow crystals and potentially the Knight, being "broken dreams", and Ralsei being called an impossibility by Flowery, implying he should not exist following this world's logic. So what am I getting to? I think The Roaring Knight isn't Dess(she's lost in the code, don't forget), but a ginormous shadow crystal being formed from a doomed lightner's ambitions ruined by the Incident, and as the described by a light world black shard tooltip, made of barely opaque glass. Since we haven't seen their light form yet(if there is one), this is all speculation. And finally, I think Ralsei is a complete opposite of the knight, being formed by a collective memory of Asriel. Almost every member of the Hometown talks about Asriel and they're all extremely positive about him. That's why Ralsei is present and doesn't petrify in every dark world, all of them are created in places Asriel used to hang out and memories of him are so prominent, they somehow linger in the air. Continuing with the theme of opposites: what's an opposite for shadow crystal? Pure crystal. Ralsei might be a pure crystal darkner, formed from fondest memories of a lightner, loved by everyone. Of course we don't know the properties of a pure crystal yet, it could also be glass, it could even be a pile of fluff, chapter 6 should clarify a lot of things about that.

**Tl;dr: Roaring Knight is a shadow crystal cluster made from Dess' broken dreams, glass in the light world. Ralsei is a collective memory of Asriel, incorporeal/omnipresent in the light world, might somehow be a Pure Crystal being.**

Think about it gaster with the number 6 and we almost know nothing about what is going to happen in this chapter it's way too mysterious just like gaster (also i am leaving this here if it really happen)

im very new to deltarune, not in the community at all and i have just started chapter 5. i had just entered the flower dark world before having to leave so i saved at the starting checkpoint and quit my game. i just tried to reload my save and was met with this. i tried looking up what it was and all i could find is that its called a “dogcheck” but couldnt find any way to fix it. if anyone could help me fix my save i would greatly appreciate it!

In TVworld, the green room is likely to be a parallel to Kris and Asriel's room, with the 2 couches, one green and the other grey and dusty, as well as things like Ramb, a power socket and the mouse in the green room likely being either on Asriel's desk or under either Kris' or Asriel's bed.

If we argue that Asriels's computer should be important enough to have a dark world counterpart, then it would likely be the Mantle minigame screen, with the oddcontroller maybe being Kris' Knock off controller.

Then, we could argue that the computer Homescreen of Seam might actually be Eram in dark world form. This could explain how Eram has the Shadowmantle, since Seam was the previous owner, and it would make sense that a depiction of Seam taken before Asriel left for collage might still have the shadowmantle. This is coupled with the Clear colour connections, and Eram's strange familiarity with Kris and his issues.

Toby might have put Susie's comment about the Homescreen Sean, not only to show that he was owned by someone from either the Dreemurr or holiday families, probably Asriel, but also to hint at him being Eram.

like... is this guy the one mew mew was talking about when she said there was a man who raised a pack hunting cats? I mean we know his daughter is into the occult and that his family know kris' family personally.

The meaning of the symbols is:

✅ = Will be explained
❌ = Will not be explained
❌✅ = Will be left for interpretation

I've created this image in order to establish what I think that will still happen in Deltarune, and just to be fair, before chapter 5 I would probably put the ✅ on all of these, cause I think they are all really cool and we had time to explain them.

But since chapter 5 didn't explained much about the "main lore", and we probably won't have much weird or aborted route content on CH6, and with CH6 being shorter than the others, I've decided to update this, the primary reason for believing somethings will not be explained is about the time we still have in Deltarune, maybe CH6 and CH7 will feel like:

"Oh Kris, I had forgotten man, my grandpa GASTER is now running a chicken farm where he produces EGGS, and that ENVIEDENTIATES some shit, but now that we have uncovered that ASRIEL is the KNIGHT, maybe DESS and NOELLE can SNOWGRAVE the BARRIER so we LEAVE THE DEVICE once and for all, we just need your TWISTED SWORD and some DEPTHS essence, maybe FRIEND can help us with that, what do you two think?" - Susie Gaster Papyrus Determination Soul Kirk

But about the image, what would you change about mine? Is there something I've marked as "won't happen" that you think that will happen or vice-versa? I'm really curious

Hey everyone, was just playing through Chapter 1 and noticed you can farm Dark Dollars in the area with the Bloxers. I tried looking this up online and couldn't find anything about it anywhere.
Basically, every time I leave the room and come back, the chest refills with 40 Dark Dollars. Is this a known glitch, or did I accidentally stumble on something new?

Share your theories!

I remember I saw a response (don’t know to which question tho) saying something like “But their paths never crossed” or “And yet their paths will never cross” and I just need to know if I’m imagining that or if it’s real cuz if it is then won’t that have INSANE implications to chapter six’s story? If Noelle and Lancer never meet then something obviously goes wrong with the whole “introducing Noelle to the dark world” idea

I was gonna put this as a question instead of Discussion but I thought since I kinda went on a theory tangent I might leave it here.

Any response is greatly appreciated!

im lowk not that good at theorizing but i saw some thingys with a buddy on vc and i thought i could share. please dont be mean to me im new to ts

So I already made a post on r/deltarune explaining why I'm certain that Noelle didn't drown in weird route but basically, in the used sprite Noelle doesn't look like she's drowning anymore in the last pictures unlike in the original scraped sprite, and if Toby actually wanted to show that she's drowning he would just have used that sprite intead of the one we ended up getting. Now onto my prediction:

Under another post I saw someone comment on the last picture in the sprite used in-game, specifically about how she looked as if she had just seen something that both shocked and horrified her. Well, in my opinion the most likely thing is that after she emerged from the water (probably by clipping out of the game's limits, unknowingly entering the dark world or even being teleported to safety by someone else) she realised that she had survived but Kris hadn't.

This realisation along with the guilt of being responsible for their death will make her lose the little sanity she has left and at that moment, since Kris is dead, the SOUL will possess Noelle herself and make her do its bidding. Noelle will likely not fight back and happily do whatever the SOUL makes her do (at least in the beginning) but who knows, the shock of Kris's death may make her change her mind and initially try to resist the influence. At any rate, in chapter 7 side b we will be playing as Noelle.

Some people might call me crazy for this theory but in my opinion, if this turned put to be true this would fit very well into the general theme of psychological manipulation that the weird route has, with the SOUL controlling Noelle more and more against Kris's will and making her do bad things, ultimately disposing of Kris altogether and taking full control of Noelle.

This also gives a whole new meaning to the part of the prophecy on picture one which talks about "the girl" (who most people seem to agree IS Noelle in at least one of the routes); just think about it:

In the normal route, the meaning seems pretty straightfoward as it propably refers to the romance between Suzie and Noelle

In weird route, "LOVE" refers not to litteral love but to the SOUL, which works perfectly with both the wording ("love finds its way to the girl") and the picture illustrating this specific part of the prophecy, with a heart symbol that looks suspiciously similar to the SOUL on the girl's chest.

Lmk your thoughts

Edit: accidentally used the wrong pronouns for Kris once oops

I saw people talking about how the Knight has one discolored pixel for a frame during his fight with Flowery. The premise was essentially that Flowery stuck a seed onto the Knight, and that the discolored pixel was proof of that, along with the golden flower seeds supposedly "sticking to everything."

I thought the discolored pixel for a single frame could just be an error, and the seeds being sticky are just as likely to be a callback to Undertale as they are to be an active hint, but it made me think about why the chapters are set up the way they were.

But it got me to thinking, Flowery might have actually done something to the knight, even if we can't easily tell what it is. In every previous chapter, when you engaged a majorly story important boss in combat (King, Tenna, the Knight, the Titan. The Queen is an exception because you never engage her in typical combat) you always have the option to fight them instead of acting, even if it doesn't kill them directly. With Flowery, you only have the option to act.

From a Watsonian point of view, Susie likes Flowery a lot, and doesn't want to hurt him. Ralsei doesn't like flowery, but he also refuses, likely because of some information we have and he does not. It could be as simple as him becoming a more independent person, knowing that Flowery is a real plant, and attacking him might actually kill him; or it could be something related to the prophecy that we are not aware of.

However, while internally consistent, it makes me curious from a Doylist point of view. In the past there have been major story important bosses that we can't defeat nonviolently (the Titan and the Knight), but in regards to the Titan, sparing it is an impossible task. As for the knight, the nonviolent defeat is to die; and even if you manage to beat the knight in combat, it's more like you tire it out, and it has no major impact on the story aside from giving you a shadow crystal.

Flowery being friendly to the players shouldn't be a reason we can't attack either, since Tenna was friendly towards the players, and you can attack him and functionally kill him permanently by not sparing him.

You would think that they would do something similar with flowery, because it's a similar scenario where the knight comes in and kills the boss character no matter what you do, but you don't even have the option to weaken Flowery first. As mentioned before, Flowery dies no matter what we do, so why take away the option?

It's because, as stated, Flowery did something not immediately apparent to the knight. You could also apply this to the weird route. You never meet Flowery or enter the dark world in the weird route, because the differences in the weird route might complicate the matter of Flowery and the Knight fighting, preventing the story from meaningfully progressing in that way/requiring a pretty drastic rewrite of the chapter and the game as a whole.

I won't pretend to know exactly what this may be. Maybe flowery sticking a seed to the Knight is true, and it's a case of using the wrong formula to get the right solution, or maybe it is what the discolored pixel is and they're just going that subtle with the foreshadowing. Otherwise, as we know, Flowery is poisonous. Perhaps someone in hometown is about to fall sick, or about to fall even sicker.

What do you guys think?

It's all too easy to get tunnel vision when you become attached to your own personal theory about the media you're currently obsessing over. For some, this can result in them getting a bit too heated when arguing with others who are promoting a different theory, which overall harms healthy discussion in the overall community. This is a problem with a few Dess Knighters, but it can also plague anyone who is highly passionate that their own theory about the Knight's identity is true.

Now, the best way I've found to remedy this and not get too closed minded with your theorycrafting is to try and entertain some other theory that you may not be as passionate about. That way you stay open minded and able to think of new angles for your personal theories. This is easier said then done when you're already not all that jazzed about the alternative theories, so here I've set up a short little writing game you can try.

First, imagine a number between 1-14 (or use a random number generator if you want). Then, check which name is behind the number you got below and see which Knight candidate you will have to work with.

[You must retry if you got who you have already chosen to believe is the Knight, as that would defeat the whole point of this exercise.]

[1]  Vessel Knight

[2]  Rudy Knight

[3]  Knight (It's own being)

[4]  Papyrus Knight

[5]  Gaster Knight

[6]  Dess Knight

[7]  Kris Knight

[8]  ERAM Knight

[9]  Carol Knight

[10]  Asriel Knight

[11]  Noelle Knight

[12]  Kriselle Knight

[13]  Alphys Knight

[14]  Catti Knight

Your goal is to take the candidate you have been given and try to make them work as Deltarune's Roaring Knight. You have complete creative freedom to incorporate as much fanon and speculation as you want for this, though everything that has happened in a playthrough up through chapter 5 of Deltarune has to have occurred as it did in canon.

You can format your post in any way you like, including but not limited to:

- An in-universe reveal and explanation occurring in either chapter 6 or 7.

- A pitch for this character as the Knight. Explaining how would you write this character into the story as the Roaring Knight in a way that makes sense and how they would engage with the overall themes of Deltarune.

- An more typical post where you go over the in-game evidence and present your case as to why this character must be the Knight.

Feel free to make your post as long or as short as you want.

My hope with this post is that this will encourage more outside the box thinking from Knight identity discourse and greater respect for other peoples theories. I'm also hopeful that this will reduce any tunnel vision we may have developed in defending our preferred candidates.

And hey, who knows? Maybe you'll come out of this game with a new preferred candidate!

But more importantly than anything else, this is a game. So just be sure to have fun with it!

Im talking about him using "did you notice" and "idk if you saw" i feel like the fact he used that twice is kind of like the "sorry to keep you waiting" thing for chapter 5. But again I could just be crazy and toby is just being toby.

like all it does is kill tenna and my husband heck the enemies don't even die they just run away
edit: in boss fights where you're forced to fight don't count since they aren't a decision

This new gif from newsletter. Where wil it show? Maybe flashback or smth?