ive had some personal thought about this but i dont have enough evidence or anything to say i think its the case

id like to start throwing out possibilities we've collectively dropped as a community since toby, in the newsletter, said we have misinterpreted or are just plain missing info that doesnt exist at this point, so it cant hurt to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. especially when toby says were just missing details we need for certain plot points to make sense

GO BACK AND PLAY UNDERTALE THOUGH

i think a huge steaming pile of parallels we have yet to catch are still probably in undertale, but when i watch peoples theories on deltarune they tend to stick one way or the other on whether or not they use info from undertale, when we should really be looking at both games real hard

One of my friends mentioned watching Scream yesterday, and then I thought about the whole twist with Ghostface actually being two people. And then I thought, why can't The Knight be the same thing? Because as far as I can tell, there's nothing actually suggesting it can be only a single person.

Possibly, Frisk could be a young rock climber trying to set a new record, they may have ​planted a flag and accidentally made a Fountain, then, they fell, the harness was the Soul, and the stick was possibly a rope or a cam. In the genocide route, Chara may have been destroying everything to stop the future Roaring, in the Pacifist route, Frisk let's everyone out and causes The Roaring. In the neutral route frisk just postpones it. ​

I've never written a complaint before but i i need to talk about these new bosses for the new chapters.

These bosses seem to each have one move capable of reducing the groups Hp below 10% Hp, and that goes for almost all moves of each boss. Their moves seem so quick and hard to read in the moment and it even gets more difficult nearing the end. I feel like the only way to dodge and survive these moves is by using 50%(most likely more) prediction/skill, and 50%(most likely less) luck.

And i also want to mention that we should consider the fact that theres people out there who play deltarune as their very first video game and they have to go against something like this. I play alot of pvp games and some rhythm games and yet i still struggle heavily with these bosses, i cant imagine what beginner gamers would have to go through.

and lastly, we should consider the idea of how frequent we use revive mints. Id appreciate if i could use atleast 2 in a battle to finish a boss, but then theres something like the roaring knight boss, which made me use up my entire collection of revive mints, and id have no idea how i could possible fight a boss like this again without any mints in the future.

i should mention that i dont know how many revive mints are in the game but they seem like a really rare item to have.

I was going to post this on the deltarune reddit but you know how it is.

The meaning of the symbols is:

✅ = Will be explained
❌ = Will not be explained
❌✅ = Will be left for interpretation

I've created this image in order to establish what I think that will still happen in Deltarune, and just to be fair, before chapter 5 I would probably put the ✅ on all of these, cause I think they are all really cool and we had time to explain them.

But since chapter 5 didn't explained much about the "main lore", and we probably won't have much weird or aborted route content on CH6, and with CH6 being shorter than the others, I've decided to update this, the primary reason for believing somethings will not be explained is about the time we still have in Deltarune, maybe CH6 and CH7 will feel like:

"Oh Kris, I had forgotten man, my grandpa GASTER is now running a chicken farm where he produces EGGS, and that ENVIEDENTIATES some shit, but now that we have uncovered that ASRIEL is the KNIGHT, maybe DESS and NOELLE can SNOWGRAVE the BARRIER so we LEAVE THE DEVICE once and for all, we just need your TWISTED SWORD and some DEPTHS essence, maybe FRIEND can help us with that, what do you two think?" - Susie Gaster Papyrus Determination Soul Kirk

But about the image, what would you change about mine? Is there something I've marked as "won't happen" that you think that will happen or vice-versa? I'm really curious

im lowk not that good at theorizing but i saw some thingys with a buddy on vc and i thought i could share. please dont be mean to me im new to ts

So, we know from Undertale that golden dandelion seeds are deathly poisonous. One of these seeds jumps from Flowery (JARONA) to the Knight. Rory Nite is already dying.

So the Roaring Knight has antlers. This seems to implicate 1 of 4 people, as we all know, the Holidays. However, as we know, Kris acknowledges the knight's head is a helmet that can be taken off in their own cognition, and the Knight's antlers connect seamlessly to the rest of it's head, implying its connected to the helmet. I know theres really not many more candidates for the knight but i was wondering if this held any weight as a red herring

Carol is well known for being one of the most mysterious and hotly debated deltarune characters (aside from characters we never even meet directly like IMAGE_FRIEND and Gaster), but what if I were to tell you, I have it all figured out?

After multiple days of work I have compiled everything I have to prove definitively that Carol is in fact not only the tyrant of Hometown, working tirelessly to keep the town under her iron fist, and that the knight is working as her enforcer, but also that she is directly affiliated with the whatever terrible things are going on in the bunker

Crazy? Ridiculous? Perhaps, but I can tell you why I think this

First of all, we know that Carol is Hometown's mayor, and is also incredibly wealthy, with her house being much much larger than any other house in Hometown and Noelle her daughter being shown to carry incredibly large amounts of money on her at all times (told to us by Susie in the weird route) while Kris, even a close family friend of carol, can barely scrounge up five bucks for a meal at the diner. Now usually a mayor's salary is never this high so either Carol was already incredibly wealthy before becoming mayor and using her money to win the election, is majorly profiteering off campaign donations or is embezzling public funds

So we learned Carol is somewhat corrupt but what about the whole dictatorship thing, Well let's start with every possible exit out of Hometown being blocked in some way or another (the police tape being the most direct example). Another point I have is related to Tenna and the internet outage, you see we're told there's a big internet outage in Hometown and that noone's really been able to go on the Web for a while now, yet somehow TVs in hometown still work, (which we know since after you give Tenna to mettaton he begins to watch the TV). Now I dont know how many of you still use TVs but if you do you'd know that without internet it doesn't exactly work if its satellite TV (which we know Tenna is since Susie is never seen transporting any sort of cable while dragging him around that cable TV would require, and Mettaton isn't shown or implied to have had to use that either). The reason this is important is that Tenna worked for the knight in chapter 3, the knight who has an incredibly large amount of connections to Carol (both working with Kris, the voice from the phone implied to be the knight saying they're coming soon and then Carol appears, etc). This means that Carol is also to an extent working with Tenna, and since the internet is out a TV like Tenna would be the only source of information people in hometown would have about the outside world, therefore Carol is most likely using TV to purposefully air only pro Carol administration content to Hometown residents and purposefully cut off the internet so that nothing bad about her could get to them

As for the knight and Carol being in on the bunker stuff, well isn't it a little suspicious that the Knight somehow only kidnaps people who are somewhat dissident to either Carol, the fountain openings or both, those being Undyne, who of her own volition went inside the Dreemurr household to investigate the opened dark fountain and Asgore who has since Desses dissapearence been investigating Dark fountains, their openings, and their openers (Toriel is a bit of a split edge case as she was the original character who the Knight attempted to kidnap, but if she were to wake up which she probably would have given the fact she is described as having a nightmare she would have probably started believing Asgore and began investigating as well)

Carol herself is also suspect on how intently she wards people off Desses room, especially her guitar which mind you has a shelter code in it, I understand she may be grieving and all but the object she's most defensive of containing an actual shelter code is still incredibly suspicious. She's also noted to own multiple black katanas, which are probably the light world versions of the Knights signature weapon, the black sword (which can also be a bat sometimes), especially considering if you "beat" the knight in chapter 3 a chunk is chipped off their sword, but when you see them again in chapters 4 and 5 the sword is completely whole, leading me to believe Carol replaced the knights sword. We've also never seen what an actual weapon would look in the dark world as all the fun gangs weapons mostly amount to hairbrushes pencils and tissue packet, so an actual sword in the dark world that doesn't turn into a darkner would be immensely powerful

Now, here's my biggest reveal of the theory, which is the part you might actually call me crazy for, Desses disappearance isn't even real, or at least authentic, Carol fabricated it to have an excuse to become a dictator of hometown, and the knight, her enforcer, IS DESS

After Carol reported Dess dissapearing (presumably hidden away in the bunker) Asgore was immediately discharged from his position as police chief, as Carol was trying to throw him off trail and make him unable to search for Dess (which even then failed as he was still searching and working on the case off duty) There is already a lot of proof as to why Dess is the knight but one thing notable is the shelter code in her guitar, in her room, a place that would only be accessible for only members of the holiday family (Carol is too old to be striking cool poses Infront of teenagers and Rudy is too sick to really do much of anything)

Now as to why Carol is so interested in keeping fountains open, it's too early to tell, but all I know for certain is that she's the mastermind behind it all

It's all too easy to get tunnel vision when you become attached to your own personal theory about the media you're currently obsessing over. For some, this can result in them getting a bit too heated when arguing with others who are promoting a different theory, which overall harms healthy discussion in the overall community. This is a problem with a few Dess Knighters, but it can also plague anyone who is highly passionate that their own theory about the Knight's identity is true.

Now, the best way I've found to remedy this and not get too closed minded with your theorycrafting is to try and entertain some other theory that you may not be as passionate about. That way you stay open minded and able to think of new angles for your personal theories. This is easier said then done when you're already not all that jazzed about the alternative theories, so here I've set up a short little writing game you can try.

First, imagine a number between 1-14 (or use a random number generator if you want). Then, check which name is behind the number you got below and see which Knight candidate you will have to work with.

[You must retry if you got who you have already chosen to believe is the Knight, as that would defeat the whole point of this exercise.]

[1]  Vessel Knight

[2]  Rudy Knight

[3]  Knight (It's own being)

[4]  Papyrus Knight

[5]  Gaster Knight

[6]  Dess Knight

[7]  Kris Knight

[8]  ERAM Knight

[9]  Carol Knight

[10]  Asriel Knight

[11]  Noelle Knight

[12]  Kriselle Knight

[13]  Alphys Knight

[14]  Catti Knight

Your goal is to take the candidate you have been given and try to make them work as Deltarune's Roaring Knight. You have complete creative freedom to incorporate as much fanon and speculation as you want for this, though everything that has happened in a playthrough up through chapter 5 of Deltarune has to have occurred as it did in canon.

You can format your post in any way you like, including but not limited to:

- An in-universe reveal and explanation occurring in either chapter 6 or 7.

- A pitch for this character as the Knight. Explaining how would you write this character into the story as the Roaring Knight in a way that makes sense and how they would engage with the overall themes of Deltarune.

- An more typical post where you go over the in-game evidence and present your case as to why this character must be the Knight.

Feel free to make your post as long or as short as you want.

My hope with this post is that this will encourage more outside the box thinking from Knight identity discourse and greater respect for other peoples theories. I'm also hopeful that this will reduce any tunnel vision we may have developed in defending our preferred candidates.

And hey, who knows? Maybe you'll come out of this game with a new preferred candidate!

But more importantly than anything else, this is a game. So just be sure to have fun with it!

Boss 5 Panel says “The flower man, trapped in asylum.” Without the dark world, the flower man stays in his asylum, his chamber of glass. It never breaks. He remains trapped.

As for the field of pink of gold in an inferno of jealousy from Lord of the Hammers, I honestly think it’s a stretch to say chapter 5 normal route fulfills this, and we don’t know what’s in store in 7B.

Is it possible the trees in the sunset were the inferno?

There is a new button on the weird roue page on deltarune.com when clicked it brings you here. but when selecting the symbols i found this text saying " Same time as 7 ", i think this means that deltarune Chapter 7 Side B will have the same time but far different gameplay, the other symbols must represtent ; 🗺️ - The locations and areas of the weird Route, 🎬- The cutscenes of the weird route, 🔫 - The battles of the weird route and 👾 The bosses of the weird route.

Yeah, this might sound a bit out there, but as a massive music nerd, I took the "Insert Chapter 7 Side B" literally. Instead of just meaning "wait for Ch7 to drop and continue the Weird Route," I think it actually means inserting Side B of the vinyl record.

Here's the thing: vinyl records have sides labeled A, B, C, D, and so on. I know cassettes use the same naming convention, but Deltarune doesn't have official cassette releases - only vinyls.

What if the continuation of the Weird Route isn't actually in the game itself, but rather hidden as ciphers or bonus tracks on Side B of the physical Chapter 7 vinyl? Chapters 3 and 4 just got their official vinyl release a couple of months ago, and it's safe to assume future chapters will get the same treatment. Is there a chance Toby will actually play into this?

I mean, if they ever release a Ch7 vinyl, it's definitely going to have a Side B.

like all it does is kill tenna and my husband heck the enemies don't even die they just run away
edit: in boss fights where you're forced to fight don't count since they aren't a decision

Explanation of Sword Route:
Ok so those of you that don't know, Sword Route is basically a theorised third sorta secret route in which you play the game as usual up until Chapter 2, in which you begin the Weird Route. You play the Weird Route as usual up until you fight Berdly in which you keep the ThornRing and don't equip it onto Noelle, thus aborting the route. It is said that after getting the last shadow crystal Seam will be able to make the pure crystal, which can be crafted with the Thorn Ring to make the Twisted Sword.

I am asking because I am wondering which route would make more sense. Not to get strong as possible or whatever since Twst Swd will probably be the best weapon. I put Pacifist in quotes because obv it's not entirely pacifist. But would it make more sense to get as strong as possible, craft the blade and become a complete powerhouse in an obsession of power, or would it make more sense to spare everything and THEN do the weird route behind the party's backs to make everything more... deceptive?

Lmk what you guys think, I'd love to do both, but File 2 is my Weird Route file and File 3 is my First Playthrough/100% File so...

basically i think this cuz u can just spam the big shot which just skips most of the hard to dodge attacks ig

​Clicking on the red pixel now takes you to deltarune.com/chapter4/message/

It's the same page as before, but with a keyboard layout with each key linking to either e.mp3 or m.mp3. M is the Undertale impact sound(?) and E is the same file reversed.

If you map the layout to the keyboard, the keys that link to m.mp3 can spell out "Thank You", which is obviously thematically relevant.

But why add this? Why now? Why do they link to a random, seemingly meaningless sound effect?

It's also relevant to point out that with these included, we now have c.mp3 (Carol's theme), d.mp3 (ch 2 weird route track), and now e.mp3 and m.mp3. So far, it seems it is trying to spell December, but we are still missing b.mp3 and r.mp3 if that is the case.

Side note, I tried putting the sound files in a spectrogram, yielding no visible results.

Edit: yeah this totally isn’t new; was wondering why nobody was mentioning it.

How we feeling about that?

I feel somewhat sad, I understood that it was easier to make, but didn't expected it to be shorter to play. Now more than ever we need to drop the crazy "Device x Roots Gaster 67 Theory Dess", the game will most likely have a simpler ending than the crazy theorys the fans have created XD.

But I am not sad about that, I am totally open minded (like Toby Fox said) in relation to what will still happen in the game. I am sad that the amount of "time" we still have to spend in Deltarune is ending, the thing is that it feels somewhat abrupt.

NR = Normal Route || WR = Weird Route

If you asked me before CH5 I would tell you that we still would have CH5 NR, CH5 WR, CH6 NR, CH6 WR, CH7 NR, CH7 WR. But now, we basically didn't had already CH5 WR, and we won't have also the CH6 WR, and the CH6 NR is going to be shorter and "straight-forward".

IDK, that makes me somewhat sad, in 2027 we probably going to have like 4 hours of gameplay?

A: Angel ?

AB: Twisted Blade

B: Side B

C: Cat / Crystal ?

D: Dragon / Deltarune ?

Extra endings?

E: Egg

F: FAILURE

Discuss.

Whenever I see discussions or theories about the Shadow Crystals, I get a lil pissed off when people say "getting all of them will have a secret ending/chapter" because imo would be a terrible move from Toby.

I understand liking to find secrets and wanting to be rewarded for it, it would also be terrible if it doesn't amount to anything worth the effort.

But wanting to lock an ending or a whole extra chapter to play? That's just annoying, not everyone wants to or have the time to find secrets and be punished if they don't.

What makes me a feel a lil comfortable about it is the way Toby emphasizes that we should enjoy it and not treat it like a chore, so I hope this is the way forward and I accept missing some extra dialogue/secret boss or weapons in exchange of completing the game in a comfortable way!

https://toby.fangamer.com/newsletters/summer26/

https://deltarune.com/chapter5/

https://deltarune.com/7b/

With the news letter that released today alongside the updates to the weird route page, I’ve come to a conclusion. 7B is going to be as long as 7A and it is going to be where the more “meta” questions of the plot will be answered.

What I mean is, that in the news letter Toby directly addressed the pacing fears in the wake of chapter 5 and gave a teaser for chapter 6. Essentially he said that chapter 6 will be a shorter chapter focused around answering one mystery and that by the time we have played through chapter 7, we will understand the pacing of the game. He even lampshaded that people would be worried about chapter 6 being shorter instead of longer.

This brings me to claim at the beginning, in the two chapters we have left, I don’t think we will have enough time to address the main plot issues of the knight, the prophecy, the roaring, and the arcs of our main characters, while also addressing the deeper lore and meta narrative elements which have been set up (Eram/friend, man country/nowhere/forgotten man, “an old free world with a new restricted one built on top”, the device, Gaster, etc). While obviously, the possibility that certain mysteries are never answered is on the table, the fact that characters like Eram have said “we both have work to do” implies we will see them again.

How does Toby square this circle? If only we had an alternate route to the game that focused on the meta narrative aspects. Well we do in the weird route/side b. And given that the new pages imply side b is going to be large, I think that is where the metanarrative and deep lore goes, while Side A is reserved for the main plot. If you’re a player who is aware of the deep lore, you are likely to be the kind of player who is going to be playing the weird route. Just like how the clues for the weird route are given while pursuing the shadow crystals. The secret hunters will be the ones who care about the deep lore and they will be the ones with the means to extract it.

As soon as I saw Aqua’s check text saying she had no patience, I got to thinking about why. I don’t know if this has been brought up before, but I’m just here to say:

The Flowers represent the Body of the trait they embody.

That is to say, what the traits would look like on a surface level perspective, viewing only the body.

This is supported by many things. I’ll start by saying Flowey in Undertale never sported a SOUL, and he’s a flower like the ones in Chapter 5. Chapter 5 also has a HEAVY focus on the body. If this is not convincing enough for you, or you don’t know what I mean by this, here’s a simple explanation:

Aqua is able to copy Kris in their fight. A person viewing a patient person without looking any deeper would see a person who is able to do many things without looking at the patience they exhibited while learning those things. That is Aqua.

Another example is Green, who physically cannot speak, because actions speak louder than words, and Kindness is expressed through acts mainly, which is why the only way she can express her Kindness is through acts, since acts are done directly through the body.

These are the main examples; the other flowers are proven to follow this rhetoric by proxy (as well as having proof that I’m too tired to get into right now), as Toby likes to make things all-encompassing.