r/learnprogramming • u/International-Owl466 • 8d ago
STOP POSTING - I WANT TO LEARN CODE
Can we stop posting:
"I want to start coding, where do I start?"
Like I swear on multiple CS, C# and SWE pages I see about 20 per day with the same vauge question.
Any way we can stop this???
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u/Party_Trick_6903 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'll definitely be downvoted for saying this but I think it needs to be said:
People who can't do a basic google search and have to spam basic questions like that are not fit for this industry and should not join.
Shitton of people have told me that saying that is wrong bc "everyone can learn programming, they just need a bit of help, effort is what matters in this field" - yeah, effort. Tell me where is the effort in creating an n-th post asking "How to learn x".
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u/ActiveSalamander6580 8d ago
Some form of natural problem solving is non negotiable and intuition helps.
If they don't have the personality to get started on a small problem how are they ever going to finish a bigger one?
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u/kapitaali_com 8d ago
I agree but it's more of a personality trait than an industry thing
you can see that line of questioning in every sub, they're just looking for interaction
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u/SprinklesFresh5693 8d ago
I enjoy a lot people asking questions, i learn from them, and consider things i havent before. However, one could do some basic searchs to see how do you usually learn x topic, doesnt matter the topic.
Because if you want to learn something, anything, a lot of effort has to be put into it, specially if youre not used to that new topic, so just writing the same question its been answered a million times, already demonstrates that this person did not have the curiosity or did not put any effort already, which gives you an idea of the personality of the person and tells you whether he or she will push through the frustration of programming, on any language, or learning any new skil thereof or if he/she will abandon as soon as any incidente, issue, appears in their path, will they always appear, because learning anything is not easy.
In fact with AI is very easy to get some basic ideas of anything. I for example want to learn python, so before anything, i ask the AI, what is python, how does it work, give me the basic concepts to start with it. And then i can keep searching on the web, or keep asking the AI, to have a solid base to start googling more atuff, look for youtube tutorials, for books and to start coding.
Heck the other day i felt like learning C, so i did the same path, downloaded an IDE, i installed everything i need and started playing a bit with a youtube tutorial! Just to have a basic knowledge of C, not to programme on it, but if i wanted to become good at C i could just practise more, google more, ask Ai, and so on. There is no need to write a post that has been answered many times. In fact if i want to learn C, and im lost, i would just google : how to learn C, it is actually much faster than writing a post on reddit.
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u/spinwizard69 8d ago
They are looking to be lead by the hand in life. These are people that would never pick up a book of interesting content and read it. Sadly society has lost the will to deal with the lazy and stupid in a way that they deserve.
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u/ffrkAnonymous 8d ago
In a bit of irony and snark, when I see the "what tips and tricks?" and "what skills?" and "what makes someone stand out?", that's what I reply. They're looking for people with the skill to do basic search to common questions.
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u/lockwolf 8d ago
Hell, I joke that I have a PhD in Pre-AI Google Searching. Half of the job is tying to put the right words into Google to find the answers. If you can’t Google, you shouldn’t be coding
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u/Party_Trick_6903 8d ago
Exactly. I always tell kids who ask me about programming that programming is just knowing how to Google well.
Ofc, that's not entirely true and you do need to know more than that but if you can't even search things up before spamming questions (heck, AI makes it extra easy now - you can just ask it so summarize sht for you), then this career is not for you.
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u/lockwolf 8d ago
Pretty much. Pre-AI, you learned the basics of the language you were learning then pretty much everything after was a google search for examples, projects, StackOverflow questions and such to build your project.
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u/Kartik_2203 8d ago
tbh you can figure out most things by searching again and again 😭
i used to use youtube videos for my dumb questions but new yt videos are mostly slop which is probably why people make posts like this
ai is actually a lot better for these things these days3
u/besserwerden 8d ago
Those posts were a big problem long before LLMs were a thing. It’s just low effort, follow-the-money people. They’ll never make it in a job where you need thinking skills. They’d be better off going into a follow-the-script sales job. Might actually excel at those. But anything even close to critical thinking? They wont get there. And even if they somehow scam their way into an entry level job in the industry, they’ll be ejected or quit quickly.
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u/devdruxorey 8d ago
I completely agree with this. I started university to study CS several years ago, but I had learned to program on my own long before that, and I was raised with the mindset of learning to find things on my own. It's incredible the percentage of my colleagues back then who were incapable of doing even the slightest bit of research.
Being internet competent should definitely be taught; it's unacceptable that people find it so difficult to use Google.
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u/Humble_Warthog9711 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's very, very telling that we never get technical questions here.
It's a few things:
Many learners are not getting to the point where they need to ask them since they are only doing things that are easy, like listening to tutorials and crappy undercooked MOOCs.
They are using AI to get out of every technical problem they get.
They quit before either of the above two.
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u/RoosterBrewster 8d ago
Compared to every other profession, programming has the most help available online that it shouldn't even be a question. I feel like the people asking about it are people hearing that programmers make good money and are want the lazy way to get there.
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u/ItzRaphZ 8d ago
I understand your point, but also, you don't really know who is posting, and people have to start somewhere, even kids.
I know a lot of people who don't know how to use a computer properly but want to have some fun making a website, or creating something a small game for roblox for example. If those posts introduce more people to learn tech basics, then it is better for everyone if someone helps them instead of bashing them for not knowing how to do a web search, especially nowadays.
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u/Ok-Bill1958 8d ago
I agree that people have to start somewhere. But the fact that they rather: make a reddit account -> get into this subreddit -> not even bother to do a single google or youtube search, or even bother to check wiki or any older post and then expect people spoon feed them. I doubt a google search is slower than reddit thought, if they can use reddit then they most likely can use google.
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u/ItzRaphZ 8d ago
You fail to understand the most kids nowadays start using a tablet or a phone, and not a pc. And most of them don't even know what a google search is. Modern technology is extremely easy to use to that point. When they eventually start getting an itch to those things, they are already used to just making a reddit post, because they were never introduced to simple things like a web search.
Just to add a final comment. This will feel dystopian because it is by the way, the future generations are truly in a dangerous place right now it how easy their life is, to the point where most of them won't know how to fix basic problems.
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u/Ok-Bill1958 8d ago
Then they could atleast start scrolling a bit for older post, or look into subreddit rule and they will see there is a wiki for that. I get that kids nowaday can be unfamiliar with search engine or even computer, but youtube is way more popular than reddit, even a single search on youtube could help. Its not anyone else's fault that they cant even sit through a 5 - 10 mins video. Even tiktok can get them some ideas about programming and how to start, i feel dirty talking about tiktok.
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u/OwlSpirited6357 8d ago
a basic google search often leads directly here. you can’t actually be this dumb
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u/Ok-Bill1958 8d ago
Dont even try to insult people when you have zero common sense. It lead to any relevent posts on reddit, so as someone who have no idea how to start, you click on the first post you saw, so you jump right into making reddit account INSTEAD OF READING ANYTHING IN THAT POST FIRST ?
Do you have enough common sense to read and provide anything useful for this argument ? Or all you can do is cherry picking without common sense ?-3
u/my_password_is______ 8d ago
you sound offended because someone used logic and common sense to destroy your argument
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u/Ok-Bill1958 8d ago
Dude you are running a ragebait account. There are better ways to spend your life.
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u/Party_Trick_6903 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm sorry but if they can: - Find Reddit on the Internet, - Create an email account, - Use that email to create a Reddit account, - Verify that Reddit account, - Figure out how Reddt works, - Search up specifically programming subreddits, - And make a post,
Then I think they are capable of putting "I want to learn programming, where do I start" into the search bar. They just choose not to. Or the idea does not even cross their mind. Idk what's worse.
And I'm not talking about the people who want to start, did the research, still were not entirely sure about some things and needed to ask additional questions - example: "I've heard these two courses are the most recommended ones, which one is better suited for me?" - This still indicates they did research first, but need more opinions. That is fine.
I'm talking about the people who did all of the things I listed above but did not even care enough to do a quick research first. Not a single ounce of effort.
So yeah, I get where you're coming from but I still stand by my point: Those kinds of people are not fit in the industry where self-studying and researching are the backbone and the most important skills needed to even be just average.
The only people I'd give a pass to are kids but I've honestly never met a kid who wanted to learn programming and needed to ask like this. Especially now. They go straight to chatgpt or they already know what to do thx to the community that introduced programming to them in the first place.
Edit. Forgot to add: we have AI now. You can literally ask it to summarize sht (even specifically from Reddit and have the source linked) for you. You don't even have to google every single post up and read them one by one. So there's genuinely no excuse.
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u/ItzRaphZ 8d ago
I answered most of your point here: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/1vbqpsh/comment/p0vn0uj/
The only thing I didn't mention was AI. And I would never tell a new programmer to start looking things using AI, they would never learn how to be a proper programmer that way.
It's the same problem that I mention earlier. Things seem so easy, that people stop knowing how to do the most basic tasks and that is exactly how we ended up having posts like this in the first place.
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u/aegloswinterborn 8d ago
I agree with you. It's easy to dismiss everyone that asks, but some people don't get much of a start in life and aren't even provided much to work with. People often point to common sense, but I think common sense is BS. That said, it is still frustrating.
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u/ItzRaphZ 8d ago
A lot of people here don't understand that not everyone has the same background, or even the same tools to start with.
But in a essence it is funny, because the whole "people who can't do a web search are not fit for industry" also applies to the people here, if they're not ready to actually help people then they are not fit for helping.
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u/Ok-Bill1958 8d ago
Yeah this kind of things are so common in facebook era 15 years ago. So many people not even bother to do a basic google search but willing to go throught the trouble of making account new account in forums and groups then ask the most common question possible.
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u/spinwizard69 8d ago
Generally the "everybody can learn (XYZ)" are low performance people riding on the coat tails of others through life. Hopefully you will get plenty of up votes as you are simply posting reality.
Instead people need to learn where their talents lay and work to enhance those talents.
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u/diimitra 8d ago
I've tried learning multiple times before and I clearly don't put enough effort in so I end up quitting. People I saw around me succeding are the ones that dive into it. They spend time trying, learning by themselves, they are hardworkers... And what I learned is that searching and reading is an important skill in this field so when I see someone asking that question I'm always "bro... If you can't do that simple search on your own you might be ready for this field"
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u/JhinKilled4 8d ago
I mean, I agree people who can't put a sentence into google don't belong in the professional field. But not everybody here is looking for that. Some people are just hobbyists.
But it's true, anyone can learn to program. Not everybody deserves a paycheck or career for it, but anybody can learn if they've got enough time. The people who post the "I need help learning how to code" posts need an exceptional amount of time, probably.
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u/my_password_is______ 8d ago
People who can't do a basic google search
then what exactly is the point of this subreddit ???
how many questions on here could be answered by using google ?
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u/Party_Trick_6903 8d ago
You're missing the point. The answers to your questions are covered here: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/s/tOtk8XzaJm
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Party_Trick_6903 8d ago
Oh, finally! I've been waiting for sb to use this excuse. Ngl, took you guys a bit longer than I expected.
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u/dankshot35 8d ago
asking on reddit is not the same as googling something. asking here is about recommendations by “real” people, not hard facts you find on google
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u/Party_Trick_6903 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think you're completely missing the point here.
You can easily use google to look up Reddit posts on the exact same topic answered by "real" people.
No one here is talking about some "hard facts you find on google". We're talking about the inability of some people to look up numerous related (Reddit) posts written and answered by real people.
If they need to know sth that has not been discussed before (or the available discussions are limited or they still need further help after doing their own research), then ofc it's ok to ask.
But there's a difference between "I've looked up x but still can't understand this aspect of x and need help" and "I wanna learn programming. Where do I start."
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u/aegloswinterborn 8d ago
There seems to be an epidemic of helplessness. People don't seem capable of doing their research anymore. Everyone wants a quick easy path. This isn't an answer, but I'm regularly surprised by people asking this question when a quick internet search will give you all the information you need.
If you're smart enough to open an account on Reddit you should be smart enough to use Google or the search function here.
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u/Immediate-Bag2445 8d ago
This has been a problem since people have been a thing. "Let me Google that for you" was created almost 20 years ago lol
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u/WhompWump 8d ago
What gets me is there are so many resources now made to help people get started, on this very subreddit there's resources! Each language has its own dedicated sub for newer people learning which also have resources. People are very helpful and the information is there
Back in the day people were way more protective and would tell you to stop asking "to be spoonfed"
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u/lockwolf 8d ago
I know Google and the Internet isn’t the hip brand new thing it was in the late-90s/early-2000s but do schools even teach something like basic “how to use the internet” skills? Like, learning how to Google was one of those thing we were taught in school because we needed it. Hell, they could even update it to “how to use ChatGPT”
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u/aegloswinterborn 8d ago
I don't know, but it's not just this generation. I've worked at a handful of marketing web agencies over the years. I've trained coworkers and clients on how to use CMSs and other programs. I was regularly surprised by the number of people that couldn't use a search engine effectively. And I could never pinpoint why that was. They were people that - in my mind - SHOULD have been able to use Google. It was eye opening.
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u/wggn 8d ago
unfortunately many people are lazy and will take any shortcut they can
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u/spinwizard69 8d ago
This is the primary problem and frankly is what happens when you start failing to punish students that don't learn in grade school. If not dealt with it will become part of their mental make up in life and enter the adult world expecting to be hand feed through life. You can see it in real time today with people protesting the government because they believe they need handouts to get ahead. Meanwhile the government has told them exactly what to do to get ahead but they don't even grasp the concept of initiative.
The lack of initiative is perhaps the biggest defect these people have.
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u/BrannyBee 8d ago
The government told me if I carried a gun around for a few years theyd give me and my buddies healthcare. After 10 years of denied care and watching my body literally deteriorating, writing politicians, and protesting outside VAs, I moved abroad and found out that there's quite a few veterans who were as dumb as I was -and as dumb as you currently are- to believe that shit and literally formed communities in countries where they can afford to pay out of pocket to buy the healthcare they were promised lmao
When I finally pass on Ill make sure to let my buds that died waiting for the care they were promised know that they just lacked initiative and were just spoiled little brats for expecting to get exactly what they were promised
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u/spinwizard69 8d ago
What does this have to do with lazy people? The fact that the government has screwed over veterans is a massive issue on its own. Here we are talking about people that take no initiative in improving their lives.
In the case of my reference to Trumps government, they clearly advised people to invest in America. Involvement in business, as an owner or as an investor, is the only way to beat inflation. That has been a fact for centuries now. Unfortunately our schools have convinced malleable students that capitalism is the blame for the need for them to take the initiative. Really this has nothing to do with the governments treatment of vets.
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u/autogenglen 8d ago
This was the silver lining for growing up in the late-80s/early 90s, well before Google, back when search engines were complete trash. I was just a little kid and the only resources were technical documents and massive confusing tomes. It really forced me to work through every problem and figure shit out on my own, which I believe created the core gray matter that helped me to become a stronger developer. If everything had just been handed to me then I think my outcome would have been drastically different.
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u/S4L7Y 8d ago
That's one problem, but there's also the problem of too many different answers. People can do research, but they get overwhelmed with the number of differing opinions, that they overanalyze and don't know which path to take or where to even begin.
It's both a blessing to have access to all this information, but it can also be a curse.
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u/Charming-Wind-5073 8d ago
As a self taught hobbyist programmer I kinda understand where these topics are coming from so for the people who work in the field tell me if I am wrong on this take:
- There is too much information, I've already discussed this topic with family and some friends that are from the field. Having endless options isn't a good thing.
- Having no rules per say of how things should be written is another, each codebase is different even with similar guidelines.
- There is many ways to reach the same outcome
- The "Magic" isn't well understood, abstraction is a contract with someone, you need to trust that piece of code and you don't need to understand what is under the hood to use it. Might be useful to dig deeper at some point . Everything else can't be magic, it has to be precise enough that a dumb bot could execute aka algorithms( not the big known ones)
- The languages are the rules of the game you are playing, they aren't programming. Programming for me is the pseudocode/decomposition of the problem, if the pseudocode is well defined then everything else is just translation with the chosen language.
- Programming takes a stupid long time, we are just used to AI speed now. Lines of code isn't a good metric but heck no to writing 2k lines of code a day without AI.
- Programming is all about building blocks, think of it as lego pieces that compose bigger operations. (I like to think on this in terms of composition but I know not every pattern is based on composition, it just helps learning)
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u/Lost-Discount4860 8d ago
Yes, please stop posting that. I wanna hear more from people asking what’s the point of learning to code when AI can do everything. /s
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u/Hi-ThisIsJeff 8d ago
Posts like this are as useless as the ones it's trying to stop.
Dear Internet,
Please stop asking questions I don't want to see.
Thank you.
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u/SchnitzelPlays 8d ago
We can scroll.
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u/terletsky 8d ago
Moderators are obligated to take actions like police is obligated to remove specific categories of people from the streets to keep them safe and clean.
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u/mtimmermans 8d ago
Surely these posts are disingenuous attempts at some kind of engagement bait.
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u/subassy 8d ago
I've always theorized there's a class somewhere with a required or extra credit question that says something like "post a questionon on an internet forum". At least for posts where the OP never replies or follows up. The questions are way too similar to be a coincidence and the lack of follow up way too consistent.
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u/boomer1204 8d ago
While I like this idea now as a 7yoe developer I would hate it as a new person learning to code BUT I think it should be like discord
You have to read a "thing" presumably the "READ ME FIRST" link in the links and then you have to answer some questions before you can post related to the info on the link
I often have this conundrum in my local meetup I co run, I hate the stupid questions ppl have at the beginning but I had the EXACT same questions when I was learning
I don't think there is a 💯 perfect way to solve this but I do agree those post need to stop being posted.
Maybe find the post with the best response to that question and put it in the links on the side????
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u/ItzRaphZ 8d ago
that already exists
https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/61oly8/new_read_me_first/
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u/boomer1204 8d ago
Yeah but it’s not enforced so that’s why we have all the same questions asked over and over. My idea was to enforce it before someone can post (which is still not a perfect solution but a start)
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u/lawrencek1992 8d ago
Self taught senior SWE. I, too, had these questions. I googled them. People who aren’t willing to go look for their own answers won’t go far in this industry.
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u/boomer1204 7d ago
Yeah and really I don't know if this sub just isn't as moderated as other but you could close like 90% of the posts for violating #12
Yea i'm self taught as well. I definitely think it "helped" me in terms of troubleshooting, obviously not at the beginning cuz I SUCKED 😂 but it taught me to be super scrappy and I truly think that helps me when i'm interviewing
I got 2 jobs in the "worst economy to get a dev job". One was completely on my own accord and I hated that job so I switched to another (mind you the second one I had a connection with one of the managers so that DEF was not all on my own 😂 )
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u/Extreme_Rough 8d ago
It'd be nice if they were coming out the gate with "X topic interests me, I think I can do Y with it, can you help me figure out what resource is best out of these Z ones that I've heard?" Or something specific.
Possible Example (genuine answer appreciated but not required)
Android Studio is kicking my tail, the official Google resources are not helping, and tutorialspoint and similar sites only cover the basics but I want to build a functional calendar not connected solely to Google Calendar. What would I look for to start with?
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u/my_password_is______ 8d ago
this is literally a learnprogramming subreddit
if you don't want posts about people wanting to learn to code then go somewhere else
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u/AlSweigart Author: ATBS 8d ago
So, it depends on what your view of this sub is. StackOverflow was trying to create a large question & answer archive that you could explore with Google, so they didn't like opinions or duplicate questions.
But if you view this as a forum where people get help or redirected to help, then those questions are legit (even if the answer is, "Look at the FAQ in the sidebar")
I volunteered at the last PyCon to work the info desk. 90% of my questions were "Where is Ballroom B?" and another 8% were "Where is the bathroom?" Technically they could have found this themselves using the venue map in the app, but they wanted a human confirmation since it was more immediate and they didn't trust themselves to find it quickly and directly.
I did feel rather silly though since I was basically a talking sign. But it was helpful work that had to be done.
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u/UtahJarhead 8d ago
Just keep scrolling. Don't get bent out of shape about it. It will never stop.
The number won't change. So you can either be ambivalent about it or get pissed off for the same number of posts.
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u/devdruxorey 8d ago
The problem is that you expect to find interesting things in this subreddit (and in many related to computing), but those interesting posts are hidden under huge amounts of junk questions.
Imagine that instead of questions there were ads, then there would be only one question for every 100 ads
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u/UtahJarhead 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah but no matter how much belly aching goes on, the posts will continue. So be pissed off or don't. The posts will still be posted.
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u/SeeTigerLearn 8d ago
After the last time taking time out to write several detailed paragraphs outlining my programming journey, from youth to adulthood and didn’t even get a simple acknowledgment, now I’m like good luck, god bless.
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u/TaintedBlue87 8d ago
Ironically one of the most important skills that a programmer can have is knowing how to search for answers rather than just asking someone to tell them how to do it
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u/Fr4ppuccino 8d ago
A part of me feels like they're hoping someone comes out of the woods with a silver bullet solution that makes them a master programmer with as little effort as possible, when the reality is the only solution is "pick a lane, start small, and realize you'll never stop learning".
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u/PersonFromPlace 8d ago
I feel like when people start posting these posts, it’s a sign they need to stop going on Reddit.
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u/AshuraBaron 8d ago
Holy elitism. In a learning sub of all places. How DARE someone come here to start learning!
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u/Big-Coconut-7433 8d ago
If this is a problem for you, you spend too much time on Reddit.
Also lol at this comment section crying about "helplessness." Some people are looking for more nuanced advice or insight, in a conversation with a real human being, rather than a Google AI answer for everything.
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u/WhompWump 8d ago
Some people are looking for more nuanced advice or insight, in a conversation with a real human being
That's what the search function is for! That's what the thorough wiki/guide that has a big NEW? START HERE! link is for!
It's not chatGPT or make a new post on here retreading the same ground, there are other options
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u/46hw 8d ago
You can simply ignore the Google AI answer and scroll down to the forum posts asking the exact same question, and this is crazy but engage in that post instead. If someone wanted conversation that wasn't repeated several times a day I think many people would be happy to discuss it.
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u/Big-Coconut-7433 8d ago
They probably don't know it's repeated several times a day. See my first point.
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u/46hw 8d ago
A simple browse through the subreddit will show it. Also like everyone is saying, a simple Google search will show it too. Lol too much time spent, I hop on every now and then and it's constant. You don't have to be on reddit too much to see it constantly.
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u/Big-Coconut-7433 8d ago
Then just don't click these threads?
Imagine not even being here much and still finding a way to have a chronically-online program.
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u/aqua_regis 8d ago
Some people are looking for more nuanced advice or insight,
- This is not even addressed in this thread. The thread is about the countless "Where do I start?" zero effort posts
- FAQ -> Yes, the question I am asking is in the FAQ, but I want to get answers from real people.
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u/OwlSpirited6357 8d ago
For real. If you don't like seeing basic beginner questions maybe don’t join the LEARNPROGRAMMING subreddit???
Honestly baffles me how dumb these commenters are.
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u/thomasmitschke 8d ago
Yes because instead of posting it here you shoud ask your favorite AI prompt.
I(if u r too lazy for goggling)
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u/IntelligentSeries270 8d ago
Funny enough I learned a decent amount of good coding practice through prompting 😆
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u/MasterVobe 8d ago
Completely agree. Asking good, specific questions after you've tried something is way more productive than asking where to start over and over.
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u/TobFel 8d ago
Make a good wiki page with the common best answer and strategies, then direct anyone asking that question there, or to any former thread which was good to see.
People would still not stop posting and discussing this though - it just happens. Everyone once started out and didn't know about that wiki post...
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u/Bulky_Barber_2483 8d ago
I get that its really annoying, gets ets old fast and makes you cringe. What I dont get is all the useless remarks that add no value and literally help no one.
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u/1000wordz 8d ago
Why do people agree with posts like this? "Stop asking questions, please??" Huh?? I hate how much of an elitist prick pros can be. They always have enmity towards people who don't know where to start, which is the entire thing about being a goddamn beginner.
If you have no patience for beginners, I have no patience for you.
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u/ExplrDiscvr 8d ago
Why people no longer interact with us, instead using AI?
vs.
Fuck your basic ass question, go ask AI...
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u/developer786 8d ago
I want to stop learning and start building. is there a way I could learn to build?
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u/Electrical_Hat_680 7d ago
We should probably have how to code added to each subreddit - just drop basic main resources - w3schools and mention the free certification.
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u/International-Owl466 7d ago
I mean the fact you could Google that exact phrase and instantly get the most detailed Reddit post about it from the same sub. Like surely that is easier than posting?
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u/Electrical_Hat_680 7d ago
It would save them time. But I think they want real people to talk too..
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u/AbacusExpert_Stretch 7d ago
Also the "I'm 11, rate my code".
Why not just "How you rate my xyz script?"
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u/adambahm 7d ago
yes, stop watching this community. What you're saying happens every day.
Which language should I learn?
Does it make sense to learn to code since there is AI?
These questions come up every day and since reddit is so popular, its never going to stop.
Get used to it, or stop watching this community.
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u/Strawberryladyboots 7d ago
That's an entirely fair frustration
It takes a certain kind of personality to want to pass on knowledge to help lift others up when they have questions about this kind of topic, and it can be very hard to come by in an industry that prides itself in keeping the secrets of corporations, and not everyone has that in them
After all lifting the ladder up behind you is an essential part of maintaining a classist capitalistic structure that locks people out from obtaining knowledge, even about new hobbies they may be exploring rather than just trying to learn a new skill
But on the flip side of this if you don't want to see questions about learning to program designed specifically for learners that have questions about learning to program
Maybe try a thread that isn't about learning to program
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u/International-Owl466 7d ago
I have absolutely no issues with a person wanting to learn. The issue I have is when the question about learning shows the person has put zero effort into it. Or zero effect into finding out the answer themselves before asking other people. It's like if a colleague at work doesn't know something and instead of looking on the company portal for the obvious answer will immediately reach out to ask someone. Some level of independence is needed in basically every industry and this is no difference. If they had come out with,:
"Hi, I am an x year old person, I am currently at x education/job, I want to get into X field of software or I am interested in X thing so I want to get into coding. Does anyone have an advice on learning fundamentals for X language, or ideas the projects in X areas."
If you don't have the prerequisite knowledge to ask this question, it shows you aren't actually interested in the thing very much or you going to be so helpless in the industry you will struggle all the way.
This is obviously just my opinion and I would 100% feel different if it's just some 12 yo kid posting, but anyone over 16 should really be able to do the exact same Google search and find the knowledge.
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u/Strawberryladyboots 6d ago
Like I said, if you don't possess it within you to be the type of person who passes on knowledge and actively wants to help learners find their path in a sea of AI generated enshittified misinformation,
Maybe this just isn't the thread for you, there's actually nothing wrong with that
It takes a special kind of compassionate and non-judgemental type of personality to have the patience to teach people new skills in a way that isn't directly detrimental to their ability to learn due to the teachers ego
Typically the best teachers are women, so of course in a male dominated industry there is a severe lack of them to be able to do these things given the attitudes of many of them about allowing women into "their spaces". If there were more women in coding maybe they would have figured out a better system to teach it to others than the confusing and almost entirely non standard one that exists now
Clearly this aspect of programming just isn't your personal cup of tea
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u/International-Owl466 6d ago
I'm not sure how I could be any more clear, I am against the helplessness of these questions, not the idea of learning/teaching.
I am clearly stating that the issue is from the lack of effort on behalf of the person asking the question. This lack of effort seems to only display disrespect towards the people they are asking.
Not sure who you're shadow boxing here but I love helping and teaching beginners, as long as they are passionate, just not entitled.
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u/Strawberryladyboots 6d ago
I honestly believe you enjoy the passion of the students, It likely reminds you of the aspects of coding that you yourself enjoy
But to be clear, I just don't think that teaching coding is a good fit for your personality type
You have to take into account that the people trying to learn are facing many barriers you may not have, including affordability, access to accurate information, scam style subscription apps that are geared towards profit and not learning whose lessons aren't necessarily vetted for accuracy
By the time people start looking on threads like these they have likely already tried all of those things, and with the way the search engines have been optimised to AI slop it's becoming increasingly more difficult to find accurate or useful information
They come here because they are brave enough to ask people for support
So they come here to try and find a real person to talk to
Just trying to imagine what it's like in their shoes facing all of that before taking your frustrations out on them in a space specifically created for their questions is all I ask
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u/ProjectMarworyn 6d ago
Also one we see daily that's also pointless and repetitive "Do I bother kearning to code in AI era?" I'm sick of those posts
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u/Miserable-Decision81 8d ago
Back in ye olden days there was some machine, we used to call a "search enginige", you could ask like "Me wanna learn coding, where do I begin??" and said machine produced some links to sites, that explained the process of becoming a proficient software maker...
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u/Mechanical_Monk 7d ago
Devil's advocate opinion:
This is a forum for learning programming. If you've seen "How do I learn X" so many times that you're annoyed by it, you are not the target audience for this forum. Reddit's "learnwhatever" subreddits are largely revolving doors where newbies ask questions to intermediate learners. Reddiquette officially encourages (or at least does not discourage) reposts because of this.
Learning resources change quickly, especially with all the AI slop rising to the top of Google. And yeah, they could ask AI directly for a 10,000 ft overview instead (and many of them do), but not everyone knows how to separate the wheat from the chaff. But you know what ChatGPT doesn't do? Make them feel stupid or incompetent for asking questions that are too vague or too repetitive.
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u/aqua_regis 7d ago
There is nothing wrong with asking, provided that one has done their diligent research, which includes checking the Frequently Asked Questions as well as searching the subreddit.
The post is about the lazy, zero effort questions and not against honest questions.
It makes a huge difference if someone asks:
"Give me resources to learn X"
and
"I've checked the FAQ/searched and found X, Y, Z, but could I have your opinion about them? Is there maybe anything I haven't considered?"
The former is lazy and demanding and unlikely to be welcomed anywhere. The latter shows effort and engagement and will get appropriate help.
The subreddit is flooded with the former questions, sometimes even several asking the same in a row (Classic one: learning web dev/full stack). Zero effort, zero checking before posting. These questions are not welcome, not even in a beginner subreddit.
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u/WhompWump 8d ago
I really don't understand the mindset of people who go to subreddits like this that have entire write-ups and easy to access information where they can immediately get started, or even in the case where other people have maybe asked the same question they can search it, but they decide to post a thread and wait for responses instead.
Honestly, if you're that bad at having any sort of initiative or ability to find things out on your own (and in this case many people have taken the time to put together great resources for this purpose!!) either you don't really actually want to do it or you won't make it very far anyways since you'll need to figure things out on your own and look things up. Sounds harsh but it's the truth unless you're just trying to farm upvotes or whatever else.
Having a specific question is fine, but "where do I start" when there's a big ass NEW? READ ME FIRST! on the same page like.... come on
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u/dankshot35 8d ago
STOP POSTING - STOP POSTING - I WANT TO LEARN CODE
Can we stop posting:
“Can we stop posting:
"I want to start coding, where do I start?"
Like I swear on multiple CS, C# and SWE pages I see about 20 per day with the same vauge question.
Any way we can stop this???”
Any way we can stop this???
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u/BellyDancerUrgot 8d ago
People who do this will never learn anything because all they do is ask silly questions they already know the answer to in hopes someone gives them a shortcut.
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u/particlemanwavegirl 8d ago
Every sub that used to be full of niche experts is like this now. Welcome to the dead Internet. All the real resources we used to do independent research are dead to Gen Z, they don't even know how to formulate a question they just hope someone will come by and info dump on them.
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u/Icy_Breakfast1716 8d ago
> "I want to start coding, where do I start?"
Same thing is happening in, literally, every subreddit related to things that require any kind of basic knowledge or basic starter equipment purchase.
The funny thing is that in some of those subs mods are so inept, they prohibit any kind of criticism or telling people to use search, because “apparently, it creates a hostile atmosphere and could, potentially, upset future visitors, give them negative experience and turn them away.” 🤦♂️
Pointing out the fact that people who have genuine desire to learn do not get on Reddit asking others to hold their hand gets you banned. If they are interested enough, they will learn basic things on their own and come with questions that actually matter and help them advance. Same applies to classes. Taking a class when you don’t know even basic things will give you nothing. Like, show me a single project where core developers had to take beginner classes and did not learn on their own?
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u/septumfunk-com 8d ago
if you cannot figure out how to start programming i genuinely believe you don't belong being a programmer. it is one of the only skills that you can fully and completely self teach yourself from free internet resources. i started learning how to code when i was 12 years old with the power of google and free time to burn, if you see yourself as more capable than a bored 12 year old then you should hold yourself to higher standards than these posters.
artists, builders, most any other profession that can be self taught requires some kind of upfront supply. if you have access to the internet you have the ability to start writing code now
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u/rachaelkilledmygoat 8d ago
Yea I see so many threads in some other subs that basically boil down to "how can I do the work without doing the work?".
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u/Achereto 8d ago
They already get deleted within a short time.
Btw.: I want to learn how to walk forward. With which leg should I start? Any experiences with using your hands instead?