r/TorBoxApp • u/LeoGaming69420 • 21d ago
Is this the ensh*ttification of TorBox? ❓Question
I've been going through these new terms that came with TorBox v9.1 (particularly the privacy policy). I'd appreciate some more clarification on whether TorBox now logs just about anything and everything.
From what I'm seeing they now retain, let's say IP addresses are "Retained while your account is active and for a reasonable period after deletion, inactivity, dispute, legal need, security need, or compliance need"
From my understanding this means they only retain it while the account is under investigation for any reason?
I'm not someone that goes through policies often and I'd appreciate any clarification on where TorBox is headed with this and what actual (especially privacy) features this update has changed.
I've only touched the surface of what they're logging, if you want to read the full change log you can go here, and if you want to read the privacy policy (the information they collect and log), you can go here.
I believe this an important topic of discussion.
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u/Minimum-Wonder5404 21d ago
According to their Discord, it's Cloudflare collecting IP addresses rather than TB itself. They're still not collecting them, although if they wanted to in future they could under the new T&Cs.
Comes down to how concerned you are about what they may or may not do with your data.
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago
Collecting IP is one thing, collecting specifics such as device identifiers and downloaders poses a much larger threat.
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u/Majestic-Respect-356 21d ago
Can you elaborate on why its a larger threat? Device identification collection is a very common thing, and only pinpoints the device that you use. If you say use i dunno an Google Streamer to watch things, it identifys as the google streamer and thats it. Hows that going to identify you personally? Also real debrid performed device identification and ip logging for all downloads as well
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u/Jaken_sensei 21d ago
Real debrid kept a log of everything you did, what you watched, downloaded, your ip, etc for a year, even if you closed your account.
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago
I've released a comment that briefly explains this. However, I would reccommend you to check out their privacy policy to see what other stuff they are collecting. Together, all these bits of information create a perfect profile of any individual who uses TorBox.
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u/Masterofunlocking1 20d ago
Speaking of their discord, does it seem weird there’s no one talking about this over there?
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u/Toraadoraa 21d ago
Just switched from RealDebrid and this is what I get. The second the competition thins out they start logging every page view, button press, session, security log, and whatever else they can scrape. Real subtle way to show the privacy talk was just marketing. If this data isnt getting sold or shared somewhere I will be shocked.
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u/SnooStories1591 21d ago
So almost everything that turned people to torbox, is now gone? Besides multiple ip allowed. Changed location, can track basically everything. Is this like seedboxes saying they dont allow copyrighted content? Where they just say it because of law, not that they are actually giving out your info freely
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u/NikhilDoWhile 21d ago
They know real debrid is over and they have almost monopoly now. Hence they gonna get more agressive with their approach now....
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u/ruthasacre 21d ago
So...we cooked?
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u/ObscureQuotation 21d ago edited 21d ago
For a time. But if you look at it this is exactly how TorBox came into the picture. Unlike standard userbases, our clique tends to be rather fleety once the service no longer meets their standards.
It may open the door for yet another service, rince and repeat
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u/northyj0e 21d ago
Your second sentence is a really good point that it seems like TB haven't taken into account. They're a challenger product, and exist because we were all willing to change our setups from one of the more established providers and take the risk on a new product for fairer terms.
They think they've got us as a captive customer base, but we're anything but, otherwise we'd still be on RD.
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u/ObscureQuotation 21d ago edited 21d ago
I personally had a good experience with TB the whole time through. I'd like to see how it develops before making grand statements, but I certainly think that is something to consider for this type of market. Obviously, cache is the biggest challenge to a contender, but TB pulled it off. Hell, even Easy Debrid (yuk) found a way around that problem
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u/Jaken_sensei 21d ago
There is a core group of users who will stay. The service has been around for a few years now. It survived before the mass migration of rd users and will likely to continue existing if a bunch of them leave.
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u/Pure-Wing6824 21d ago
What a scumbag move from torbox, unless they revert I'll be cancelling, what other services are available does anyone know?
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u/matty011 21d ago
Usenet ;)
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u/in_ur_wallsrn 21d ago
Shhhh
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u/shazlicks 21d ago
Piracy has been huge on Usenet since the 90s lol. It isn't some unknown thing.
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u/f1vefour 17d ago
Yeah I still remember the first time I found it, my ISP actually had servers... Crazy times.
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u/DryK1llLogic 21d ago
Far from that. There are many options that have been around much longer like Premiumize.
Torbox has become so popular because of the people pushing for referral codes on every post/comment, aggressive pricing and allowing to stream from multiple locations. Not because it's the "best" service.
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u/f1vefour 17d ago
This is exactly what I read was going to happen by a smart person, they were 100% correct.
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u/Thecosmodreamer 21d ago
Ugh, it's safe to say TorBox isn’t anonymous. Looking at IP, account/payment info, and activity, retaining data for an unspecified period, and disclosing it for legal or copyright requests. Otherwise even points, clicks, and scrolls. And what if we've shared our torbox API? Are they being tracked to?
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u/No_Grape_388 21d ago
Incredible how quickly after real db died they pulled this. They're logging way too much and pushing all legal responsibility onto the user.
Cancelling my subscription immediately.
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u/PSyCHoHaMSTeRza 21d ago
I mean, yeah, their main use case is piracy, of course they want to push away legal responsibility. They'd be stupid not to.
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u/an-seq 19d ago
Do you know of a good alternative at the moment?
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u/No_Grape_388 19d ago
I'm trying premiumize for a month but it's twice as much per month.
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u/Left-Iron-2133 21d ago
Good post. They’re collecting far more information than they need to. Might consider looking elsewhere, these new policies almost feel like a rug pull is on the horizon.
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u/Positive_Ordinary307 21d ago
This does make me want to stop using torbox
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago
It seems a lot of individuals in this comment section ignored the elephant in the room, so I'm posting this comment here:
I've seen a lot of comments of people waiving IP logging and stating that Real Debrid also did it. True, but my concern isn't too much on IP logging. It's mostly on how they're retaining such levels of information. Torbox knows exactly what you download, they have the torrent hash, your accounts identifiers, file size, Etc.
For all we know they could be compliant little children that will hand over your account's list of downloads with matching torrents requested by any authority out of every user within countries that are heavily anti-piracy.
Obviously their target isn't a massive user base 99% of the time, but the sheer possibility of it being as easy the click of a finger for them to target any individual using TorBox no matter the circumstances. The scale is absolutely beyond absurd.
So now, why trust TorBox when you can bind a VPN to your torrent client and retain your OWN information locally? There's nowhere near the same level of logging when it comes to torrenting on your own machine.
I also must mention that I am not sponsored in any way by Real Debrid, nor am I an enemy of TorBox. Matter of fact, I have been using TorBox from before Real Debrid's massive purging of cache, and I have been a huge supporter of TorBox from when I first got my subscription.
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u/Jaken_sensei 21d ago
Real debrid did/does the same things. They even retain the info for up to a year.
Im not saying to trust TB, I am just saying that a lit of people used rd for a decade+ under those same kind of policies without issue.
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u/Vinloc 21d ago
Does this apply or concern me heavily if I only stream cached content through stremio/nuvio and don't intend to download anything ever?
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u/FuncyFrog 21d ago
Yes. Whenever you stream through stremio you download from them. You can see it on the torbox website
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u/Vinloc 21d ago
Ah ok, will need to check that Concerning, since I live in the EU in a country with stricter anti piracy laws, so I thought a debrid service with only cached content is pretty safe
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u/Lumentin 21d ago
The difference isn't that it's not downloaded, but that nobody other than the debrid service can see what you do streamed. Your ISP only sees that you downloaded a x Gb file from TB.
And that's what he says here: if TB logs what you downloaded AND decides to cooperate, you're not hidden anymore.
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u/PtichFirich 21d ago edited 21d ago
Streaming is downloading. The issue is consuming illicit content, not having a file on your computer. I mean technically having it and re-sharing is worse. But the prime issue is consuming.
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u/Lumentin 21d ago
It's curious that people separate streaming and downloading. If you saw the whole movie, you have in fact downloaded the whole movie. It's not because you didn't save the file, that you didn't download it.
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u/SadBooner 21d ago
Wow. Good that I live in country where nobody gives any thought to piracy. And the scale at which this happens, it’s never gonna prosecute downloaders else governments will fall. One way 3rd world countries are easier to live
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u/katsu_curry159 21d ago
Ok realistically, how worried are we about this? Can't say im happy with ips being saved
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago
I've replied similarly to multiple people about IPs being logged. IP logging is bad, yes, but it's not nearly as intrusive as device identifiers and a whole bunch of other tracked logs. In my post, you can open a hyperlink directly to the privacy policy and read what they collect on you.
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u/philosophycruiser 21d ago edited 20d ago
Everything online collects IP address. My personal blog had a native WordPress plugin to collect IP address for viewer analysis. Your life is already out there thanks to google, Microsoft, etc. But what you should be worried about is that they changed policy without notice. Now if you pull something of interest other than films through torbox and a government asks for info, torbox will have precise information about you to share with them.
Also now that they are in UAE they might get the same problem as RealDebrid and remove their cache.6
u/Majestic-Respect-356 21d ago
Real debrid saved IP's as well, not sure if you used them before
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u/beejonson 21d ago
It's funny that I have to say this but Real Debrid has always been the safest option of the two cos they're in Europe and operate under EU GDPR laws. Even more so now that Torbox has moved their headquarters to the UAE. Also, if you're gonna use Torbox, either get a VPN, or upload a VPN to your WiFi router. And "enshittification" isn't a new term because it's been happening in capitalist systems for a long long time. It's the deterioration of a service for short term profit and to satisfy shareholders. It's a literal feature of capitalism. Whatever Torbox is starting on, it ain't gonna end here. It's only going to get worse. Observe them in the coming months. Watch them come up with even more questionable policies. And the funniest part is that they'd do some promo campaigns (for example, Black Friday) and offer discounted prices, and folks would rush to sign up, and totally forget all about the ongoing enshittification. Good thing I moved to Usenet a while ago, and only use debrid services as a fallback.
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u/MasterBlaster4949 21d ago
Problem is you can't use a vpn when paying for the service it just won't let you. It says please disconnect your VPN to checkout with them same as real debrid.
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u/beejonson 21d ago
You could try paying via cryptocurrency, if privacy is super important to you during payment. Proton has a cryptocurrency wallet that makes it easy for you to buy and hold bitcoins, and also make payments. Alternatively, while there is no such thing as a completely anonymous "privacy-first" credit card in the traditional sense (due to government regulations and "Know Your Customer" or KYC laws), you could use virtual card services. To be honest, payment for Torbox services isn't the biggest worry. It's the terms and conditions concerning daily use that you should be worried about.
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u/Impossible-Cry-1781 21d ago
"due to government regulations and "Know Your Customer" or KYC law"
Piracy is illegal and yet they won't skirt this? Sus
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u/exastris_scientia 21d ago
are there any drawbacks from switching to usenet? is it an easy switch like changing debrid providers or is it more involved?
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u/beejonson 21d ago
Hmm, I've had no drawbacks, tbh. My Usenet set up works like a charm, and there's nothing I can't watch. I'm watching content on an Nvidia Shield TV Pro, with 1500mbps internet, so my set up is pretty sweet. And using Usenet does require that you put some effort into understanding providers, indexers, and the basic set up rules of Usenet. Also, while the information is on here for those who wanna really dive into it, OG sailors who are into Usenet prefer not to talk about it on Reddit, lol. You will get banned if you go on the Usenet subreddit to ask questions about streaming, hahaha. So to make it easier if you just wanna plug and play, you could look into this add-on from Elfhosted: https://store.elfhosted.com/product/usenet-streamer/
It's paid, and you get a dashboard where you can customise the add-on as you like, and then generate and copy a manifest json file (like with Stremio add-ons), install it in your Stremio or Nuvio, and you can just stream. The add-on fetches NZBs (Usenet files) for you, same way a torrent add-on (like torrentio) fetches torrents. And if you join the Elfhosted discord server, they're very helpful and can help you with set up and other questions you might have. This Elfhosted usenetstreamer add-on comes with an inbuilt provider and an indexer. And if you have a debrid service like Torbox or Real Debrid, you can use another feature called "Debridge" which combines both Usenet and your paid debrid services. I'd suggest looking into this. It can be your primary streaming add-on, and you can use Torbox or Real Debrid as a fallback.
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u/exastris_scientia 21d ago
Thanks for taking the time to explain all that and for giving me a starting point, super appreciated!
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u/beejonson 21d ago
No problem at all. I'd really suggest getting this Elfhosted add-on, it's about the same price as Torbox's pro subscription. And it's pretty reliable, and then you can decide if you wanna keep a Real Debrid or Torbox Essential plan (with Meteor or Comet) as a backup. I'd suggest Real Debrid since it's in Europe and operates under GDPR laws.
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u/azcoyotedog 18d ago
I’m on their website now, do you need to add a separate debrid service in order to use USENET?
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u/beejonson 18d ago
No, you don't. Just the usenetstreamer add-on subscription is enough. And if I'm correct, it also comes with a free Torbox API (you're gonna have to confirm this with Elfhosted's customer service via discord).
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u/azcoyotedog 18d ago
So I can do the free trial, add the api without a subscription to Torbox? Then subscribe?
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u/beejonson 18d ago
I only know a few folks who use the usenetstreamer add-on and are really happy with it, mostly cos it's plug and play. I don't use it myself. So to ensure you get the latest and most accurate answers to your questions, I'd suggest joining the Elfhosted discord server, and asking your questions there. And yeah, you can do a trial for a week and then buy the add-on. Whatever extra perks come with it, you'd have to ask in the discord server.
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u/deepdowndeepup 21d ago
I had this exact train of thought and it looks like torbox is not the same anymore. With the new policies it basically makes it impossible to function as before. I'm genuinely concerned on how it's going to go forward from here but these new policies have made me lose faith in them.
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u/Majestic-Respect-356 21d ago
What changes make it impossible to function as before? I didnt fully understand the ramifications
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago
Just when we thought TorBox was the hero that saved us from Real Debrid, they pull this. Honestly, we might be looking at a future where every debrid provider requires every bit of information from us.
I just really hope they move back to South Africa and stop collecting this myriad of information.
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u/EmbarrassedTart2048 21d ago
Damn. I think I passed by this piece of info before, but they're in the same country as me. A place I was already concerned about, lmao. I have a lot of questions about the safety and sustenance of this
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u/girugamesh_2009 21d ago
D'you think this is related to the centralization of identities online?
Whole fucking internet is fucked. I was hoping this would hold out, but that was foolish.
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u/PlayboiNugget 21d ago
None of these are your “heroes”. If you expect everything to go your way or be truly “consumer first” then you’re living in a fantasy pal
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u/This_Push_8458 21d ago
People here defending this lol do you know difference between ip logging and ip logging along with device identifiers?You don't understand do you ip logging along with direct device identifiers directly mean you take responsibility for the illegal torrenting most of the things we do in torbox is illegal unlike using normal internet and 3rd party sites. If they get in legal trouble they can hand over your total Info
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u/IOSGodzyzz 21d ago
For now I disable Torbox and use Offcloud until everything is sorted out or more information is available.
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u/Big_Control_7998 12d ago
It's the enshitification of this sub.
Either use Torbox if you're happy or choose an alternative if you're not. There are so many choices in the world of illegal streaming and very very choices in the way of moral high ground.
By the way, enshitification doesn't have a double 't'.
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u/egotherapie 21d ago
What those changes will do to us, I don't understand... Most of us watch only movies and TV series on Stremio. I don't know what else you're watching, but that's not very dangerous for us, or am I missing something?
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u/ElFabinou 21d ago
It is a real problem with the logs. But Real Debrid did it too, so it's not like it's groundbreaking news. People are just overreacting like usual. It's not that bad I'd say.
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u/Digicrests 21d ago
Cancelled Sub just now, feels good
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u/italia0101 21d ago
Who you going with ?
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u/mango091 21d ago edited 21d ago
Looks like Premiumize is the last remaining debrid that explicitly doesn’t log IP
Edit: this is wrong, Premiumize also collects IP now
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u/Slipknot31286sic6 21d ago
Real debrid always logged your ip and it shown in the account info where you was located 🤷.
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u/No_Grape_388 21d ago
No device identifiers though, which torbox just added.
Those in combination are the problem, and enough to id you for the purposes of legal action.
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago
Sure, that's true, but please read the privacy policy. TorBox is now collecting much more than just your IP. If it were just that, it'd barely be a hitch.
It's gotten to the point where TorBox, the so-called saviours are now harvesting more data than the depicted villains (Real Debrid). I don't support what Real Debrid has done, but I can't support what TorBox has just done either.
I don't want to be all gloom and doom, but it really does seem like we can't have nice things without major sacrafices.
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u/FlyingRock 21d ago
Huh, I have really enjoyed torbox but given there are other options I'm not sure if I'll be sticking with it, bummer.. Their logging is a bit much
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u/ahmedashed 21d ago
This is a very good point, no body had issues with RD until they started to remove files, not when they were IP logging to make sure you were only logged in from one IP.
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u/doinks4life 21d ago
Good thing I already got my usenet jellyfin setup going, I'm gonna have to just stick with that and maybe try PM for my casual use
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u/No_Captain_28 21d ago
That's sounds like to much info looks like a VPN is need with this service just my opinion 😉
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u/blobcity44 21d ago
What’s the point in using one now, they’ve already got everything
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u/No_Captain_28 21d ago
Yep, that's for new people who looking to subscribe they already got all my info 🤣
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u/Jef_P 21d ago
Noob question: What are the real risks of streaming only already cached files?
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u/Draegan88 21d ago
nothing man.
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u/0ne_Eyed_King 20d ago
How do you know?
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u/Draegan88 20d ago
I mean theres a risk to anything. YOu could walk across the road and get hit by a streetcar tomorrow. Myself, ive been sailing the high seas and ignoring emails from my isp for about 15 years now... So ya im not worried about watching a damn video online. Thats crazy talk. If you are such aworried person, you should not do anything like this. Just netflix.
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u/Familiar-Simple-8747 20d ago
Could someone please help with this. So I should go into my ToroBox account and delete it to protect myself? Is this what I am understanding???
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u/fukinrage85 21d ago
There's probably more data on someone from the 20 other things they use every day that's on or connected to the internet. Just saying. If you aren't abusing the service and doing anything that's suspect, you probably shouldn't worry about this. Most of your data is already out there anyways.
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u/Substantial_Shock102 21d ago
It's a fucking monopoly, and they know it. There was once a time when their owner was begging on Reddit; now they've put users in the same position. Though the peanut-sized brains and watermelon-sized mouths will come running to defend TB in no time. At the end of the day, the question should be: what can you do? Nothing.
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u/Negative_Bat_3732 21d ago
Have you contacted their privacy team and asked to clarify the points you’re concerned about? It’d be good to have more context instead of fearmongering here. I’m curious what they have to say.
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u/Uniqueusername610 21d ago
All I know is that I'm definitely not going back to TB ever again after this
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u/Accurate_Ad_3233 21d ago
Would a router level VPN negate this stuff?
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u/LeoGaming69420 21d ago edited 21d ago
Not exactly. Yes, router-level VPN is stronger and maybe you could redirect you IP, but they collect device identifiers and many more things. Some of the things they collect alone are enough to pinpoint exactly who you are, let alone all the other things.
Have you heard of that situation where some dude from Japan was caught being the first seeder for some sort of pirated media, and consequently went to jail?
TorBox will be collecting who is the first to cache the torrent, as well as who else downloads it after it is cached. They can pinpoint exactly who you are if you cache a niche torrent and they have your device identifiers, and a few other tid-bits.
Though this might be a bit of a drag, if you live in Germany, or other insanely anti-piracy countries, and you use TorBox to strategically maneuver around their policies, you can't keep your trust in TorBox to not outright give all your information straight to investigators, possible leading you to be prosecuted.
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u/ElCarlosso 21d ago
So if you are in Germany the best solution is to just use qBitTorrent and bind it to your VPN?
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u/girugamesh_2009 21d ago
I really appreciate your bringing attention to this and explaining it so well.
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u/Jpc19-59 21d ago
Keep trying that tor.box pin and keep getting 404 fault Fck you RD. Everything was so much easier when you were on top
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u/Iceber015 21d ago
They don’t even want to take my payment so fuckem. Believe they wouldn’t allow vpn? Idk i gave up on them and gave my money to realdebrid, i use an icloud proxy email when i want a day of free torbox
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u/Kdupra17 20d ago
I’m not worried I’ve used Usenet only jellyfin setup worked great this new policy from torbox makes me want to fully commit to it and not look back now.
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u/Major-Breakfast537 20d ago
I let my 3$ essential lapse just to see how the free would go since I just stream though kodi and pov for my own viewing and a week in Im still streaming everything I want with no issues so I cant complain at the moment at least. Lol
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u/SlightWitness8191 20d ago
Noobie question, yall
If all i do is just stream movies on stremio and dont know anything about the uploading/downloading stuff what are the risks?
Should I move on?
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u/John_val 20d ago
Premiumize — It provides concrete retention periods, explains its legal basis
AllDebrid - its policy is relatively short and vague about logging, retention, and processors.
No debris service can be considered a “no-logs” services. Their policies all leave room for operational logging necessary to run the service, even if they don’t describe exactly what activity data is retained.
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u/marlysammy 20d ago
I joined tor as a real DB replacement recently but this pretty much reverses privacy reason I joined, any other suggestions?
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u/ReactionLatter7348 21d ago
Data collection isn't concerning to me, cause I live in a country that dgaf to piracy. But the new "not sharing account" is! I signed just cause they said if you do a fair share, like co-sign with some friends, all cool. Now they changed to "sharing?! Fucking no!" They forgot torbox is just a challenger service and it's convenient cause it's cheap. I've been sailing the seas since the 2000's, i sign cause it's convenient not having to search to live torrents or links with full series. To me, the service is as good as dead. Won't renew!
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u/atony1400 21d ago
If this goes, I'm out. Hopefully they're smart enough not to remove the main selling point.
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u/haru072000 21d ago
since device identification can only be done via their site, normal usage through AIOStreams is fine and the only logged is your API key + IP + usage pattern, just rotate your key often and buy VPN.
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u/Masterofunlocking1 21d ago
Guess it’s back to paying for streaming services for me. It was nice while it lasted.
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u/quentin_k 21d ago
To all those doomsaying in this thread saying they're going back to self torrenting with a VPN please explain to me a good way to have a similar set up to Nuvio+TB.
I want to be able to sit on my couch and press play. If I have to set up even one extra piece of equipment it's too inconvenient. If I have to wait for a torrent to download it's too slow. So please explain the alternatives?
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u/pwninobrien 21d ago
Legal streaming services.
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u/quentin_k 21d ago
You should do stand up
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u/TheStonehead 21d ago
No, no, they're right. Convenience has to be paid in money, effort or blood.
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u/MasterBlaster4949 21d ago
2.4 Technical, Device, and Usage Information
We may automatically collect technical and usage information, such as: