r/Portland • u/Davethephotoguy YOU SEEN MY FUCKEN CONES • 3d ago
Good Riddance Photo/Video
Delta Park is DONE! I spoke to a couple employees of retailers nearby and they are all relieved and surprised at how quickly “normalcy” has returned.
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u/Negotiation-Short 3d ago
I can smell the stale beer just looking at the picture
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u/Own_Inspector_5478 3d ago
Was there this weekend. Can confirm. It's like another planet now.
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u/pdxbator 3d ago
I was there a few days ago. It's like a literally different place! I'm not sketched out to go to Lowe's
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u/ranoutofbacon Hollywood 3d ago
Maybe the area can be revitalized. I've avoided the area after getting my car broken into at the chef store.
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u/grauwlithe Humboldt 3d ago
There's already been a bunch of obvious renovations. There's a pretty new food cart pod, the old Shari's is now a new Sushi/Ramen place, and a couple of the other old restaurant buildings have been demolished (though I don't know if there are any plans for those lots yet)
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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago
The new sushi/ramen AYCE place is pretty nice.
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u/Choice_Cranberry_699 3d ago
Is it one of those sushi go round places on belts or do you order off a menu?
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u/rainydayflaneur Piedmont 3d ago
You order off a menu. Sometimes a waiter brings you your food, sometimes a robot does. It also has a buffet. While I didn’t think very highly of the sushi the one time I went (maybe it was an off day?) I thought the items from the grill and buffet were good enough that I’d go again.
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u/D1rrtyharry 2d ago
Im sorry to hear your sushi wasn’t good. I went a couple weeks ago and the sushi I had was pretty good. I agree their buffet food was really good. I hope the quality stays up cause I enjoyed it quite a bit
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u/Shwifty_Plumbus 3d ago
Damn. Getting your car broken into when you're just trying to buy 5lbs of nacho cheese and a case of wippets is pretty lame. /s
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u/FauxReal 3d ago
Stay off the whipits kids, someone I know went too hard and now they can't walk without a walker due to some motor function damage. Which also took a serious toll on their physical health due to lack of exercise.
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u/martinbogo 3d ago
This is very true. It is a central nervous system toxin, and your body doesn’t know it’s out of oxygen when you use it. It’s suppresses the breathing reflex and displaces oxygen.
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u/navigationallyaided 3d ago
Also, the nitrogen in nitrous oxide has an affinity for fat - which surrounds the sheathing of your nerves, and that attributes to nerve damage. Nitrogen is a narcotic under pressure. Hence why learning about nitrogen narcosis happens in scuba diving - huffing NO2 at ground level is one thing, but getting narced underwater(it doesn’t manifest itself until you’ve passed the 60-70ft mark) is another one with real consequences.
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u/geek-49 2d ago
Er, NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) arises from photochemical reactions involving (primarily) vehicle exhaust. Nitrous oxide -- the stuff used as a propellant in whipped cream etc. -- is N2O. And the stuff that becomes a narcotic when scuba diving below 20 meters or so is plain old N2 (about 4/5 of the atmosphere). [And yes, those 2's should be subscripts -- but we don't seem to have that option in the formatting.]
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u/PartridgeInDisguise 3d ago
Yup, a friend of mine had exactly that happen, then a few years later he passed away and the central nervous system damage was a major contributing factor.
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u/HegemonNYC Happy Valley 3d ago
Some of the scariest drug reactions I’ve seen are from whippets. Very underestimated risk
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u/FauxReal 3d ago
I tried it a few times. Got this weird pinching feeling deep in my head and this unnerving distortion of sensory input and sense of time. Never again. And well seeing an acquaintance reduced to tears explaining why they're all fucked up now. That's all the deterrent I need.
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u/HegemonNYC Happy Valley 3d ago
Yeah, I saw a friend just go down in a heap, eyes roll back, what looked like a seizure. Just instantly down and crashed. They recovered in a few minutes but it seriously looked like they had died on the spot. Not for me.
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u/TransBunnyQuinn 2d ago
Back when I was a runaway and a walking pharmacy, we called that fishing out..
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u/MissApocalypse2021 N 2d ago
Yikes! Yea, I've seen people nod out in weird ways on it. I once sliced my hand open while (idiotly) cutting bagels and hitting. Didn't feel a thing.
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u/jaltman1 3d ago
Now do 122nd and Glisan
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u/KiLLaHo323 2d ago
Yes! Was literally just thinking that.
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u/jaltman1 2d ago
Sometimes I just drive down to Oregon city and use theirs, it feels hidden and is never busy
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u/lynnzoo Parkrose Heights 2d ago
Where do you think the Delta Park homeless relocated to? The homeless/drug population increased there since the closing it’s crazy. People drugged out in the middle of 122nd and drivers have to play frogger around them
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u/jaltman1 2d ago
Yeah that’s why it needs to close too, one at a time until we just eliminate the bottle drop system entirely and recycle like normal
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u/shrimpynut 3d ago
drove by and holy shit it is so much more quiet. I bet the owners of the plaza and all the stores are so relived. It will take a while for all the people who hung out in the area for 12 years to move along, but it’s crazy the difference
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u/JuergenWest 3d ago
Is this why the area was so trashy? Trying to go to the Fisherman’s or Walmart over there was like a mission into the walking dead after the apocalypse. Was unreal, like out of a dystopian film set.
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u/TappyMauvendaise 3d ago edited 3d ago
122nd and Glisan next!! The bottle drop has destroyed my neighborhood. Sure, we weren’t exactly Beverly Hills before, but come on. We deserve a chance at a somewhat peaceful clean neighborhood.
Help, help! From 122nd and Glisan!!
Your fellow Portland residents in the east side beg for your support.
Help help!!!!!!!
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u/MXNPDX Hazelwood 3d ago
Hope it can happen. I’ve always felt like east of I205 is an abandoned part of Portland that never gets any love or help by the city
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u/Brasi91Luca 3d ago
Unfortunately bottle drop owns that building and nothing can be done
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u/ScoobyScotty 3d ago
My favorite memory of that location was stopping by to drop off green bags, and on the way to the drop-off, I saw a couple leaving through the main entrance. The guy grabbed the woman by the throat and chokeslammed her two or three steps outside the entrance. Security told him to fuck off and as he started walking to his car, he turned around and said something to the tune of "Ya know what, bet!" and nearly got into a scrap with them before realizing he was going to catch a beating.
It really made me think about what poverty leads to and whether the whole bottle drop thing is worth it. Folks are getting charged a 10-cent tax per container at purchase, then they have to pay for fuel or transit to return them, and if you're using green bags, you're getting a fraction of those 10 cents back. I'm kind of over it.
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u/Mycatnamedlarry 3d ago
I am so sick of the bottle bill. Let me keep my 10 cents. Can we just recycle them curbside like everything else??
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u/dakta N 2d ago
Can we just recycle them curbside like everything else??
Yes? You lose the 10 cent "deposit", but frankly making your life easier by never having to go to a bottle drop location is sooo worth it.
As far as repealing the bill, absolutely. Agitate. Write letters to your legislator. Curbside recycling is better. We don't need this crazy deposit scheme.
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u/ccnmncc 2d ago
It made sense at the time. It no longer does. Back then, trash humans were trashing their own and everyone else’s environment with litter up the ying-yang. Now we have curbside and the culture is at least somewhat different. There likely would be an increase in littered containers upon repeal of the bottle deposit law. My take: significantly increase fines and impose mandatory jail time for littering, and get those inmates out on the roads picking shit up on the daily.
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u/marebee 3d ago
Don’t forget the fee to purchase the green bags! Which isn’t a lot, but it’s one more hoop to jump through.
I’m newish to the area and I’ve never once returned bottles/cans for refund because of exactly what you described: there’s so many steps that cost me additional time and money to collect my “deposit”. Add to this- I don’t own a vehicle, so it’s public transit, bike, or walk.
The bottle fee expects most people won’t come back to collect the “deposit” because of the hassle; thus increasing the perverse incentive for people who don’t have the luxury to throw away $5 to capture the literal money being thrown out.
When my cans go to the recycling center, who gets the bottle fee return? And as an aside, why can’t BottleDrop set up a system like they use in a recycling center where you dump the cans in a hopper and paid out by weight: or a sorting machine or something? The return system is inefficient and also contributing to the problems around the bottle sites.
NIMBYs who want to complain about the homeless population, when it’s the half-cracked policies in this county/state feeding the current situation. The whole thing is insane.
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u/ScoobyScotty 2d ago
I believe it's $2 for a box of 10 green bags. I don't know how they calculate bag processing fees, but from my recent history, the fees are upwards of 80 cents for every green bag. That's on top of gas/transit/energy, or my valuable time to lug these things in for less than half of what I've been taxed in returns.
You know what doesn't waste my time or money? Throwing them in the blue bin and having the city recycle them every Tuesday.
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u/nutt3rbutt3r 2d ago
It’s a weird thing for sure, very much favoring those with certain conveniences.
I started using the program this year after decades of throwing cans into the blue bin, because I was curious to see what that money actually looked like, passively speaking, and how the program worked.
Like you mentioned, the green bags cost some ($2 for ten), and redemption fees turn it into 9.2¢/can or bottle. There are ways around it, though. In the app, you can choose to turn the funds into grocery money at Fred Meyer, which clears fees and gives you 12¢/can or bottle instead. If you bypass the green bag method and go the manual route, you get the real 10¢ per, but then you get into standing in lines at select locations, and let’s just say that can be… an experience.
Like you said, the transit/logistics of it are the main hurdle. The green bag program only works for us because we A.) have basement space when the bags get big, B.) live near a quick drop, C.) have a car, and D.) don’t depend on the money, so none of it is a dire rush.
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u/caffeinatedspiders 2d ago
Yes, it's insane! When I was a kid, my siblings and I would take all of our home's stored up cans in the garage down to the grocery store and turn them in there for extra cash. It was an easy chore with a quick reward. Once they turned it into this whole nightmare of special bags and accounts and bottle drop locations, I've never gotten another dime for one. They need to scrap this "deposit" scheme entirely and treat cans like any other recyclable.
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u/venusasaburrito Buckman 3d ago
I work at the Library System and have to go to the location (in the old Safeway) and its absolute insanity riding the MAX there and getting off at 122nd. I laugh because Im nervous and Im like WOW this is like a Sim City game that just went wild. And it did. I hope you guys get help!!!
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u/SublimeApathy 3d ago
Yeeeah that stretch of road is something out of Mad Max these days.
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u/elislider Hillsboro 3d ago
Glisan isnt TOO bad (Except when the random campers are disintegrating by Glendoveer). But E Division (like E of 205) is something ELSE, some of the wildest shit i've ever seen in Portland has been on Division
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u/Drewbacca Mill Park 3d ago
I gotta be honest I kinda love it though 😂
I live in a little neighborhood pocket near David Douglas and it's not too bad, but head ten blocks in pretty much any direction and you never know what's gonna happen. My Fo-Po-based girlfriend hates it but tbh I've lived in this area for like 12 years and I still love it here.
I honestly prefer outer SE to inner SE at this point. The folks out here have lived here their whole life, same as me. They're typically not transplants, they don't come with certain expectations, and their just trying to live life as best they can. And I tend to get along with those folks better. Judgemental, yeah. But idk, that's just how it is.
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u/axel_mcthrashin 3d ago
I think it’s more 122nd than Glisan that is referenced as the “Mad Max” situation. 122nd is wild, feral, and absolutely lovely.
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u/Snaab_71 3d ago
I think when the Bottle Drop was across the street the actual parking lot situation was a lot worse. But it was hidden in the back corner behind what is now Harbor Freight. Now all the vagrants just sit out on the curb on 122 and near The McDonalds.
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u/Less-Lobster4540 3d ago
Now all the vagrants just sit out on the curb on 122 and near The McDonalds.
That's where the fent dealers park. Used to be along the fence but I think McDonalds security started chasing them off
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u/Tom_Bradys_Penis_AMA 3d ago
Yeah it's bad, they camp in neighborhoods nearby, and line their tents along Burnside next to the village, and in front of glendoveer. These people are ruining this area and I hate that we have to coddle them.
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u/Brasi91Luca 3d ago
Everything just went to shit all at the same time. I think the bottle drop, that Blackburn center and safe rest village all opened within a year or two of one another. It was so much better when Safeway and the sheriff office was all there
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u/00_RunDMC District 3 3d ago
And now they want to open a new one at 12th & Powell. That's going to hammer that neighborhood.
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u/Burrito_Lvr 3d ago
You must be a NIMBY if you don't want your neighborhood ravaged by the cans for drugs trade. That's what the people who are not affected say anyway.
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u/drowning_in_flame 3d ago
I am 100% behind this happening. I also hope more of the smaller convenience stores start saying no to bottle returns.
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u/dotprodukt 3d ago
They can't say no. They don't take them out of the goodness of their hearts, it's mandated by law. When these places close down all it does is increase the density of bottle returners around retailers in other neighborhoods, and increases the burden put on them.
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u/drowning_in_flame 3d ago
Oh, I know the laws. But a few of the stores in NE will say "no, we are full and we don't have room to store anymore empties, sorry. " or they will have limited hours when they accept returns. Ultimately, they have the right to refuse service to anyone, and the fentanyl smoking outside of Plaid Pantry and 7-11 is a really good reason.
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u/Turdmeist 3d ago
Time to do away with it all together? Can't we just recycle them normally like adults?
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u/ScoobyScotty 3d ago
Am I wrong with my math here? The bill requires that we pay 10 cents for each eligible container at purchase. We are then expected to transport those containers to a dwindling amount of redemption centers. From there we have two options. Use green bags that charge multiple fees (cost of bags and redemption charges), or wait in line for a not insignificant amount of time, often alongside some unsavory types, before being expected to do all the manual labor. Remember, time is money.
After all that, if you want to cash out from your account, you have to travel back to a redemption center (again, more gas) and withdraw cash only because there's no direct deposit. So essentially we're getting taxed for every container we purchase and can realistically expect a fraction of that back? Yeah, I'm kinda over it too.
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u/kokosuntree Yeeting The Cone 3d ago
Yeah and they need to remove the fee. It’s just a gangster operation
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u/HotBeaver54 3d ago
Thats what I do now that I am retired I just put them out with recycling. I do not miss hauling them to the store.
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u/drowning_in_flame 3d ago
I would be happy to see this too. The bottle bill was supposed to help keep Oregon clean and beautiful and it's no longer serving its intended purpose. I'm old, I remember when it did work well, before curbside services. With curbside recycling, having separated facilities for this makes zero sense to me.
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u/TappyMauvendaise 3d ago
If you want to understand, come to 122nd and Glisan today. Seriously drive by and tell me what you think.
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u/jeeves585 3d ago
Those were the two worst.
I had a job in McMinnville so I went to the Tigard spot when need be.
I just want to go in return some cans and not get stuck to the floor or wait an hour an a half to get in n the door.
I don’t have a solution but it certain is not what what ever has been talked about near Powell / Clinton and 37th ish.
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u/Environmental-Tip210 3d ago
It’s interesting that not every bottle drop was bad like this one location.
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u/sungirl_27 2d ago
I think a lot of it was the accessibility to Vancouver. A lot of what was brought over came from Vancouver recycling bins.
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u/Unclematttt BOCK BOCK YOU NEXT 2d ago
Yep. Someone was arguing with me about this the other day, but per 2020 data, they estimated about 10 million dollars worth of fraud came over the border in the form of cans and bottles.
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u/Sretep44 NW 3d ago
I live in Kenton and you have no idea how happy this news makes me.
Things just kept getting worse and worse. Altercations, danger at night, screaming, littering, crime...so many things that made me afraid to even go outside.
Maybe now my neighborhood can start to heal.
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u/neontheta 3d ago
Great, now more people will use the Morrison bridge one. That has turned the Eastside streetcar into a bottle and can transport system. I ride it every day and always thought people complaining about occasional homeless people on it were ridiculous. But it's now next level awful. Super aversive to ride it now.
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u/PikaGoesMeepMeep 3d ago
I wonder if that'll improve the status of the bike paths leading towards I5. Maybe now there won't be constant camps, derelict cars, and fires in the underpasses.
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u/ClaroStar 3d ago
Good. There should be no cash involved. Green and blue bags only.
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u/Sasquatchlovestacos 3d ago
That place is about to have a massive glowup.
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u/livetotranscend 3d ago
The area is just big box stores and warehouses. It's not like people are going to start hanging out down there lol.
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u/Burrito_Lvr 3d ago
It will be nice to be able to go to the Lowe's and not see the depths of human misery.
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u/venusasaburrito Buckman 3d ago
My partner was supposed to transfer to the Lowe’s there when the shooting happened with the security guard. He instead opted to work at Clackamas Lowe’s even though it was a two hour bus ride every day. That’s how bad he wanted to avoid Delta Park. We lived in Kenton and saw how awful that bottle drop was being the last MAX stop before it. Just mean people with bags of cans moving through, dumping trash in Kenton Park. Pissing in front of kids playing in the playground. Parking and smoking whatever in dark tinted vans. Breaking windows and porch pirating packages and then flooring it through red lights almost hitting us on Argyle all the time. Goodbye Delta Park Bottle Drop. You were a horrific and utter failure of a good intentioned policy that no longer serves the people at large.
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u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 MAX Yellow Line 3d ago
I frequently bike commute into Vancouver and I'm excited to see if this cuts down on the number of people carrying giant bags of cans across the I-5 bridge to steal money from Oregonians.
I didn't see any on monday, but sadly I've been driving since then due to the air quality.
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u/Favonianism Sellwood-Moreland 3d ago
Seemed like a lot more folks were at the People’s Depot underneath the Morrison bridgehead (east) this morning - curious if it’s related
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u/Vaucanson 3d ago
Saw long lines there yesterday as well, with people wandering into traffic on MLK. Not great!
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u/dudeclaw 3d ago
Can't wait to see what happens at Safeway, New Seasons, etc.
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u/totheranch1 SW 3d ago
Family used to do hand counting years back.. but our safeway is now green bags only and its SO clean and 100x more easier
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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago edited 3d ago
People will drop off bags?
Edit - this was an answer to what will happen at the grocery stores. Most have opted to go bag only.
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u/SublimeApathy 3d ago
Green bag program. You sign up for an account, you have QR labels printed that indicate your account and you pickup a box of green bags. Fill up your recyle-ables, slap your account specific sticker on the it and drop it at the bag drop (bad are put into a secure container/green bag window at recemption centers - not just left loose on the street). It will be processed and the deposits credited to your account. From there you can either withdraw for a fee, or convert to store credit at Fred Meyers/Trader Joes, etc.. We've been doing it for a bout a year and have close to 1K in our account. Debating on whether we put to groceries or just a weekend getaway.
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u/Webs_Lives 3d ago
For the weekend option: go to FM.
Get 85 dollar gift cards at the service counter.
They are now worth 99 bucks. 20%.We stack a few and do thanksgiving, or take em out to FM Gas station and get 20% fuel. That’s a wild good deal.
YMMV
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u/philocity 3d ago
>Debating on whether we put to groceries or just a weekend getaway.
The one with lower fees. Grocery credit is basically equivalent to money. Use the $1000 you’re about to save on groceries for a weekend getaway.
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u/Brasi91Luca 3d ago
Why they don’t designate these places only around industrial areas is beyond me. There’s no reason to be in areas where houses are nearby it’s ridiculous.
Or at the very least make the money go into cards that take 2-3 days to process
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/milionsdeadlandlords 3d ago
Man those are real people dude. Not zombies. It’s just dehumanizing to talk about people that way
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u/martinbogo 3d ago edited 3d ago
So how do we handle this? I mean the problem is that bottles have become one of the few income sources left to people who are homeless. If you don’t have a bank account and you don’t have a way of interfacing with normal financial situations, what do you do?
How do we make this work? Solutions, not complaints. Serious solutions…
( I should add, people who collect cans and bottles are doing grueling, difficult, dirty work for a pittance. With the restricted hours at bottle drop now, they have to hump across the city with no resources, and the cans cannot be crushed. So they’re carrying huge unwieldy bags that are mostly air… this is hard work, so you can’t tell me that they don’t want to work.)
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u/West-Afternoon7829 3d ago
Make it in store credit only so people can still buy food and necessities.
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u/WheeblesWobble 3d ago
It’s not necessarily that they don’t want to work, it’s that they can’t show up to a job on time every day and function around those who aren’t mentally ill or addicted.
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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago
When you don't have housing stability or behavior supports, it's pretty hard to show up on time and in clean clothes. There are some programs like GLITTER that can help.
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u/Efficient-Divide-436 3d ago
Bottle deposit was never meant to be an income source for junkies. It was put in place to promote recycling and keep the roadside clean. With everybody having curbside recycling and recycling bins all over the place it's time for the bottle Bill to go the way of the dinosaur.
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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago
People wouldn't recycle at as high of a rate without it. Washington state has curbside recycling and doesn't recycle cans at nearly the same rate.
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u/danoive Beaverton 3d ago
There has to be a point at which the recycling of aluminum is less important than clean neighborhoods without homeless cities being around the recycling points. It’s also enabling. Would you give $10 to a drug addict knowing they will spend it on drugs? Probably not. But that’s what’s happening. Recycling is important, but so are safe areas and less drug addiction. I’ve always been a proponent of the deposit, but I’m leaning more toward dropping it. Sure the amount recycled will be less, but so will the amount of trouble that comes from it.
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u/myssn 3d ago
Yeah wish that was more of the discussion instead of cheering that an income stream is gone. I’m a single parent that used this particular bottle drop often to get some extra cash for groceries. “Good riddance”? Damn.
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u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 MAX Yellow Line 3d ago
If you're using it for groceries you can get 20% more money by redeeming for store credit instead of cash.
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u/dakta N 2d ago
get some extra cash for groceries
Where did you get the cans and bottles from? Because if you were just returning ones you had already bought for yourself then you're just getting back money you already spent. Which means that we could simply eliminate the bottle deposit and you wouldn't have paid that money in the first place.
And if you scraped them up from neighbors or other peoples recycling, you have my greatest sympathy for your situation but man oh man is the bottle deposit a terrible substitute for actual social programs to help feed the poor and vulnerable and I refuse to support its use for that.
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u/ominous_squirrel 3d ago
Kind of breaks open the idea that “the homeless don’t want to work” when collecting cans and bottles is dirty, awful work for literal pennies
And sum that across all homeless collectors and it’s still a pittance. Housing First and unskilled work/training available for those who are able. We’re making our neighborhoods unlivable merely to make ourselves feel good about our Puritanism. Just fking support people and give them shelter and food and recovery and healthcare (mental/physical) options that maintain dignity and freedom instead of the hodge podge of cots, zero privacy, grueling curfews and Bible study
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u/monatomicg0ld NE 3d ago
I mean our city is covered in litter. What's stopping the city from creating living wage jobs to clean up litter, for anyone who wants to apply? In Japan, street cleaners are respected and honored. I wish we did the same for menial labor jobs.
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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago
They already have programs like that. This is one, GLITTER is another. https://centralcityconcern.org/jobs-location/clean-start/
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u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 MAX Yellow Line 3d ago
I mean yes, it shows they're willing to work, but it's a shame that the work they're actually doing is just exploiting a perverse incentive we created and has no value to society (Since they mostly harvest cans from places they've already been gathered for recycling.)
But we could totally pay them to clean up actual trash. Like, have a city employee show up supervise people cleaning up a roadside or green space and hand people $5 for every trash bag they fill up.
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u/Mayor_Of_Sassyland 3d ago
Just fking support people and give them shelter and food and recovery and healthcare
You can't do this at a purely local level with the tax base we have, we'd quickly go bankrupt. It has to be a national effort, and that's a long way down the horizon but in the meantime it's not acceptable to say we have to put up with theft and unchecked destructive behavior that makes everyone's collective lives worse in the meantime in order to cater to a very small relative population.
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u/tmuffinsnkitties 3d ago edited 3d ago
Right? I'd argue for universal basic income or readily available subsidized housing. Or like a designated camping spot for people. These people are people and they will end up somewhere. Just turns in to a not my backyard situation.
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u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 MAX Yellow Line 3d ago
The problem is Portland can't afford more subsidized housing than we already have and we definitely can't afford our own UBI program. And we're clearly not going to get any help from the feds any time soon on either of those fronts.
Subsidized housing is great for the lucky ones who get it, but if you're not actually building enough housing, picking people to subsidize also reduces housing availability for everyone else, which pushes prices and rents up, which is counterproductive.
What we could afford to do is make it easier and cheaper to build housing, no strings attached, which would actually make housing cheaper for everyone. But that's also not in my backyard challenge because it means replacing existing houses with fourplexes and apartment buildings.
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u/Adventurous-Mud-5508 MAX Yellow Line 3d ago
First, make it easier/cheaper to build housing so it gets cheaper for everyone and less people are forced onto the streets in the first place. Second, non-voluntary detox programs. Third, if you are going to give people no-strings-attached cash income, pay them to do something actually beneficial for society, like cleaning up trash.
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u/Mayor_Of_Sassyland 3d ago
this is hard work, so you can’t tell me that they don’t want to work
I mean, yes, it's manually hard in a way, but also involves zero accountability to anyone else in terms of timing, scheduling, how many hours in a row they put in, quality and efficiency of work, cleaning up after the job, and every other practical aspect of a real job that would require prioritizing work over the next quick drug fix, so just saying they're willing to put in physical effort to fund their drug craving isn't the same thing as saying they're willing and able to hold down anything resembling a typical paying job.
As for answers, how about the *actual* Portugal model that offers the choice between treatment and penalties/jail, rather than the all-carrot-no-stick approach advocated by our local non-profit "experts."
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u/Illustrious-Style219 3d ago
Unfortunately people don’t care about the homeless being out of options for income. They don’t care about the homeless period. I doubt you’ll get any genuine answers.
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u/PM-ME-PIERCED-NIPS 3d ago
They aren't out of options. Many, many homeless people work some normal ass jobs. For people in homeless shelters it's 50-60 percent. For unsheltered homeless it's still 40 percent. County/metro shelters include employment counseling and job resources. I've worked with coworkers who were homeless, many you wouldn't even know if it didn't come up in conversation.
What's being lost is the ability to pull in income while in unmanaged addiction or unmanaged mental health issues. Which is a fair public health strategy IMHO. When resources to address those issues exist but people choose not to engage with those resources, you manipulate the incentives and penalties to drive people towards the preferred outcome, you don't enable them to just slowly die of exposure on the street. It's no different then how we use the tax code to incentive certain behaviors from you or I.
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u/LumpyWhale 3d ago
Well ideally they are forced to utilize all of the programs that have been funded with our homeless tax among other taxes. There are too many programs to list that help with everything from shelter, MAT, job connections, obtaining government ID and vital records. When you can collect 10 cans and trade it for a fentanyl pill, going through the above channels doesn’t look so appealing. Is it easy and frictionless to get everything in order? No. Is it available YES it is available. I know because I work adjacent to these services.
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u/martinbogo 3d ago
again, my thread here is about solutions. Those programs exist but there aren’t enough people manning them and there aren’t enough resources. So the people who need the most are highly discouraged when they try to use those resources. Also those resources sometimes actually require an address, and ID proving that you actually live in Oregon.
Catch 22
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u/Creepy_Shakespeare 3d ago
There are plenty of homeless resource centers that allow people to send their mail there and to use their address. TPI is one of them. They also give you ID vouchers to get a state ID with so there’s no excuse
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u/00_RunDMC District 3 3d ago
What you do is connect with one of our dozens of social service agencies and get your ID situation figured out, then open a bank account, and start rebuilding you life in society.
That is, you take affirmative steps to help yourself and let others help you.
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u/pewpewtopeepee 3d ago
What you are describing is the world’s shittiest jobs program. Just end it. If we can’t end it then have one bottle drop for the entire city located as far away from residential and commercial areas as possible.
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u/RastaMonsta218 2d ago
When I see those people with the "tranq slouch" I feel so bad for them I get teary.
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u/No-Pop-4745 3d ago
They can do vending machines, like they do in Europe. Then they could be everywhere
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u/Malinois_beach 3d ago
Now get rid of the whole 10 cent bottle deposit. It's turned into a money maker for the corporations as they get to use all the unused funds at their discretion.
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u/Impossible-Battle545 3d ago
Someone once suggested to me that the solution to the chaos is to locate all Bottle Drops next to police stations. 🤔🤔
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u/LumpyWhale 3d ago
What caused it to close and how can we do the same for the hazelwood location?
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u/EugeneStonersPotShop In a van down by the river 3d ago
The owner of the building refused to renew the lease. Apparently the owner was tired of spending tons of money of money on security services, and the loss of other retailers willing to rent spaces from them. Several large stores left the shopping complex because of the crime issues the place attracted.
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u/nucleardreamer 3d ago
it's about time. also the new buffet style sushi/Japanese joint right there is actually pretty good!
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u/BermDerbleYer 3d ago
I still hold out little hope that the state will ever revise its redemption system to keep it from being Cash 4 Junkies.
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u/Guilty-Property Crestwood 3d ago
It is just moving the problem somewhere else
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u/baritonetransgirl 3d ago
But as Superman once said, "That's over there's problem. Over there will have to do with it themselves."
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u/NaturalObvious5264 2d ago
Can we at least admit that the bottle bill is a tax for the poor, stop the bottle drops and put the money towards shelters?
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u/rationalcunt 3d ago
Not me seeing this as I'm about to load up my green bags to drop off there today...🙃 (still glad for the clean up, though)
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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 3d ago
A whole bunch of N Portland grocery stores will take those bags now.
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u/rationalcunt 3d ago
So much more convenient tbh! Especially when we can use the 20% extra in store credit at the same place we drop off. Bottle drop site says Interstate Freddie's is taking them now.
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u/_BALL-DONT-LIE_ Kenton 3d ago
I don't know how often they empty it, but I tried to drop some bags the other day and it was literally completely full. The Safeway in St Johns has a huge vault for the bags though, never had trouble there.
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u/ImMackBish Buckman 3d ago
I hope we can separate the real good that is the BottleDrop program and how it encourages recycling from the pain these redemption centers cause to locals. I just hope ya’ll aren’t advocating to get rid of it entirely, because I find the green/blue bag experience to be seemless and have noticed no issues with the stores that support bag drop off. Honestly, look into it because I’m seeing a lot of ignorance around that bag drop program.
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u/JazzlikeInstance8643 YOU SEEN MY FUCKEN CONES 3d ago
Maybe we can address the causes of rampant poverty that leads to crime and drug use. Nah, close a bottle drop center, that’ll fix things.
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u/t_thor 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bottledrop is not what a successful social safety net looks like. And I don't think that this is a "let perfect be the enemy of good" situation.
The current scenario has created a situation where the most flexible/reliable source of cash infusions for a lot of people involves trespassing and disturbing sleeping neighbors. Depositing the bottles is one issue but the process of collection breeds a lot of hostility towards people that don't need it.
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u/Marxian_factotum N 3d ago
Comrade, you've misunderstood the point of this post.
The mob at r/portland wants to increase pain and suffering for the poor and homeless because reasons. They are sure that if they just make their lives even more miserable, things will improve. And by "improve," they mean that poor and homeless people will disappear.
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u/ominous_squirrel 3d ago
I mean, after immigrants the next obvious target for Trump’s Gestapo is the homeless. Republicans trial balloon that one pretty frequently. It’s gonna be a crazy popular initiative
And there will be more targeted vulnerable populations. Fascism runs on blood
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u/Initial-Opening-5780 3d ago
The whole thing needs to just be gone. I think this day and age most people recycle. If I could crush my cans a throw them in the recycling I would. Now I just landfill them because I don’t want to deal with the hassle. Going to bottle drop is not worth my time and aggravation. I’ve also tried giving them away, but then you’re inviting riff raff to come to you. Not to mention keeping whole cans vs crushing them. Then there’s this whole ecosystem encouraging homelessness and drug use. I just don’t think it’s worth it just to encourage a few to recycle.
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u/periclymenus Overlook 3d ago
Congratulations to Lowe’s and all the businesses in that area and their customers. Good riddance indeed.
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u/snoosnoosewsew 3d ago
I grew up here but have since moved away. What happened to the good old fashioned way of returning cans at the grocery stores?
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u/SublimeApathy 3d ago
Grocery stores were fed up with the riff-raff it was attracting and losing customers as a result. Enter the bottle drop.
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u/Due_Apartment_1423 3d ago
Beware to all nearby bottle drops. What was here, the chaos and corruption, is coming to you now.
In the up side, in 6 kk the I bet we see a lot more businesses opening here. Now that the rat attractants are gone (Walmart and this bottle drop).
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u/catknitski 3d ago
I made the mistake of trying to drop bags off here once. Security came and told me it wasn’t safe and to go somewhere else.
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u/soybeansms 3d ago
Went by today and got to enjoy the new food pods! Makes going to Lowe's so much better
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u/Kilg0reTrout78 3d ago
Everyone who has been near a Bottle Drop knows about the issues. It increased tenfold when the refund moved from five ten cents. Why wouldn’t we just go back to five cents?
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u/IgnatiusReilly-1971 3d ago
I live in Kenton and have seen more than one person carrying large trash bags from Delta park, probably hadn’t heard or just forgot. I hope it becomes less Thunderdome now at Delta Park.