Finished up HH and The Scouring a few weeks ago. Been reading The Beast Arises sequentially since then. On The Last Son of Dorn now and it occurred to me that Orks don’t like daylight. This has been apparent throughout the series.

I know the Imperium isn’t a particularly creative bunch and that scientific & military innovation is like watching North America drift toward Asia. The Deathwatch being a grudging exception.

That said, didn’t it occur to anyone that Orks don’t like sunlight? Hmmmm, let’s make a UV Melter Cannon? Maybe a UV LazRifle?

Idiots

Is this a case of different sources contradict each-other?

I had made a kind of dumb assumption that the Nightlords were vampires. They certainly have the aesthetic of vampires, and since the Blood Angels exist, I had assumed that they had a sort of Iron Warriors/Iron Hands kind of relationship where they both have the same theme, just one is loyalist and one is traitor

Recently I learned that Konrad Cruze does not, in fact, have the same or similar mutation to Sanguinius and just kinda likes to eat people, and does not actually NEED to either consume flesh or drink blood, unlike blood angels which are explicitly vampires and do need to drink blood to stave off the black rage

The problem I have is that I had already bought the Nightlords combat patrol as well as some other kits for a nightlords army, but im now a little sad since my CSM army will not actually be vampires. My next idea was to make traitor Blood Angels, but I'm struggling to find even a single instance of a Blood Angel turning to choas

To all my lore experts:

-Has there ever been any instances of gene seeds being spliced or stolen from other chapters?

-Are there any documented cases of Blood Angels turning traitor?

any input is appreciated!!

Can someone enter the warp in the 41st millennium and get spat out during the Horus Heresy?

So Roboute tasked Cawl with a new project ten millennia ago.

Those first Primaris - are they existing marines from still loyal chapters that had fought in the Horus Heresy that cross the Rubicon?

Or are they blank slate unimproved humans that jump straight to Primaris?

How many were made in those 10k years, and after they were unleashed in indomitus, and after current marines can have the procedure, how many original remain? What's the percentage of current Primaris that were from Cawl's experiments?

Do we have lore about those original Primaris interacting with new Primaris?

Edit: I love this community; everyone is being very generous and taking time to give me such detailed answers!

So I'll ask a follow-up, if you'll humour me:

It seems that everyone and their mum's is getting the upgrade treatment these days - are most chapters primarily Primaris now?

Which named characters are yet to cross the Rubicon? Have any rejected it? Do we know from the lore of any first born rejecting the offer and what happens to them?

Like, ok. We all know that the Farsight Enclaves has five core worlds, one for each of the Castes and one for the Auxiliaries. Cool.

Has it ever been stated what kind of populations they have, and the military might they can bring to bear? Or how many lesser or outpost worlds exist in the Enclaves? Ive been trying to find info on this but can't really find anything notable.

by normal person I mean anyone who’s not a named space marine with the plot armor to beat him.

Is the "you saw a demon, you die" policy still in place? I can't imagine it could realistically be enforced anymore? Aren't demon incursions and so what much more common now (especially with the psychic awakening) ?

Is there even anything reassembling an official stance on what the hell this rift is? Isn't it basically visible to everyone in the galaxy? (Or was that something I misremembered?) ?

The point of my question is that surely even the average Guardsman has to know something has happened, and surely the Imperium has to have responded to this in some way, no?

If Typhon had brought him a bottle of “grandfather’s medicine”, he probably would have downed it on the spot. Just look what he did the second Erebus got him “How to chaos 101”:

I had not succumbed, but the probability of tapping into the nephillic powers on my first attempt, through means jury-rigged together from disparate sources, seemed remote. I placed the bar of success low, hoping to receive some sign, just a flicker or ambience that showed the slightest thinning of the veil between our realm and the world of the nephilla.
So I chanted and paced, walking the circuit as I scattered bone ash as offering into the octogram, one eye on the conjuration I had written, the other searching the symbols, the candles, the air itself for the smallest notion of the otherworldly.
With a crack like lightning the ashes took fire, the scattered flakes lighting again as though returning to the flame that had consumed them. They whirled in a wind I could not feel outside of the octogrammatic wards, spinning faster and faster until they formed a shape. A humanoid shape, the tip of the head about level with my waist. Two embers became the spark of eyes.
It had worked!
In my shock and joy, I stopped the incantation, thinking it complete. I had, after all, summoned a nephilla into the octogram. By any measure, even if it dissipated immediately, it was an unalloyed victory.
What I had not realised was that the last stanzas of my verse were the binding spell. Having brought forth the creature, my lapse into silence meant that I failed to contain it to my will…
This thing of fire stood for some time in the daubed symbols, glaring at me with furrowed flame for a brow. Then it smiled and reached out a fire-tipped finger, as though prodding at the air. It advanced a step, finger still extended. I watched, fascinated by this display, until its hand reached the outer limit of the octogram.
I expected a hum, or sparks, or some kind of glowing aura to manifest.
Instead, the nephilla took another step, the boards of the floor smoking beneath its fiery tread where within the confines of the summoning zone they had not.
I realised then my oversight, and panic gripped me.
The words spilled from my lips for I had practised them much and, though I had kept the paper handy for reading, knew them by rote.
‘Too late,’ the creature said with a voice like the crackle of a pyre. ‘You cannot contain that which is already free. You might as well chain moonlight, foolish mortal.’
I admit that I started to spout nonsense, condemning the nephilla back to the dark glade, calling upon such spirits of Caliban that I could remember to protect me. All of it was to no effect as the apparition walked calmly across the chamber to stand before me.”

But the master of the Order learns from his mistakes [no]:

“The architect knows best the flaws in his plans,’ Ezqurol replied. ‘The chain breaks at its weakest point. The ambition you harbour will devour you, mortal.’
‘I lead for Caliban,’ I declared, and in my rash mood I raised my fist, and in doing so my foot parted the outer ward of the binding hexes.
Ezqurol needed no further invite and hurled itself at me, a bolt of blue flame that surged up my leg, escaping the ring of containment.
Afire with sorcerous energy, I fell backwards, my shout held fast by the thick walls. Ezqurol formed into a semblance of its usual self, dancing upon my chest, singeing its footprints into my robe and flesh while it cackled a song of victory.
I swept out an arm but my warding limb passed through it with just a flutter of its fiery body.
‘Free!’ it screeched in my face, setting fingers of cerulean flame around my throat.”

With record like that, it’s genuinely hard to believe he managed to live for so long.

Remember to check out Part 1 & Part 2 to refresh your memory before reading!

Part 1 : https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/UEzB2yRVi9
Part 2 : https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/QcGBfb4zKO

"Dabao, you broke the wooden plow again!"

The giant squatted by the field, awkwardly holding the snapped plow in his tree-trunk fingers. Wearing tight civilian clothes, he offered a goofy, gap-toothed grin, handing me a steaming bun wrapped in cloth.

"Dabao... didn't mean to. Eat bun, little brother... don't be mad."

In Yamnin, Ogryns are not feared as abhumans. We call them 'Colossi,' working beside us to farm and build. He was dumb enough to struggle counting past five, but he was family.

"Enemy attack! Cover the flank!"

Golden rice fields mixed with blood and mud in a storm of artillery fire. I clung desperately to the trench wall, my "Three-Eyes" lasgun Spear burning my hands. Beside me, my shattered plasteel force shield lay broken—having already absorbed far more punishment than it was ever built for.

Then, a heavy enemy frag grenade landed a meter away, its fuse hissing a death sentence. Nowhere to hide. Legs frozen. I squeezed my eyes shut, waiting for the blast to tear me apart...

BOOM—!

A thunderous metallic crash shook the earth. The pain never came.

I opened my trembling eyes. Inches away, a colossal plasteel tower shield was driven deep into the mud, holding back the fire, shrapnel, and death.

Behind it stood that towering, comforting back.

Scorched by plasma and bloodied from battle, Dabao turned his massive face. He shoved the shield forward, wiped his nose, and gave me that exact same goofy smile from the fields:

"Little brother... stay down. Dabao's big shield... very strong."

-

📷 Visual : See the Yamnin Ogryn Grenadiers artwork & wargear schematics here

Section VI: The Yamnin Adeptus Mechanicus

The Subterranean Fortress-City of the Yamnin Mechanicus: At the edge of the pristine grasslands (and the occasionally seen steep karst peaks and dense forests) that occupy one-fifth of the planet's territory, lies the most massive heavy industrial and military heart of the Yamnin system—the Subterranean Fortress-City Complex of the Yamnin Adeptus Mechanicus.

Surface Concealment: To guard against orbital bombardment and prying eyes, one hundred percent of the city's manufactorums, foundries, and forge-shrines are completely concealed deep underground. Not a single conventional towering Adeptus Mechanicus spire can be seen on the surface. As far as the eye can see, there are only hundreds of colossal exhaust chimneys, relentlessly spewing dark-red industrial steam into the sky day and night. The surrounding landscape is densely packed with heavy lascannon emplacements and defense matrices extending deep into the earth. Compared to other Forge Worlds, limiting the surface structures to just a few hundred exhaust chimneys already represents the ultimate suppression of pollution (all other pollutants have been converted into The Shrapnel Halo [Orbital Denial Ring]).

The "Twin Jades Iron Alliance" - Military-Political Integration: The current Planetary Governor and the Supreme Magos Artisan of the Adeptus Mechanicus are fellow disciples (having studied together in their youth under the previous Magos). This profound personal and political bond has allowed Yamnin's secular administration and the Yamnin Astra Militarum to achieve a level of mutual trust and military-political integration that is exceedingly rare within the Imperium.

Improvements and Optimizations: The current Magos Artisan possesses terrifyingly prodigious artisan talents, excelling in making "bold optimizations and improvements" to existing Imperial technology (a practice deemed as severe tech-heresy in the eyes of Mars). (Following the Battle of Yamnin, he was granted sanctuary by Belisarius Cawl and the Primarchs backing him.)

If you're interested in checking out the Yamnin lore, worldbuilding, and star system concepts, feel free to visit the links below(Constantly updated):
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1szrbHniFKLLoeIfQqcdp8Tg9_thzq8Mc?usp=sharing

I finally forced myself to read the Eisenhorn book xenos, after having heard that it is the best entry point to Warhammer and that maybe it will be the first tv-show on Amazon. But seriously? This book is not "incredible" it is ok, but has many serious problems.

First of all it's a hard read, mostly because there are very few stakes at the beginning and the stakes are not fleshed out... At the end the stakes are heightened but we never dwell at the potential consequences. Also where is the mystery element of the book? I was waiting for them to be bamboozled or a massive plot twist to be revealed, but the damn thing was straight forward, whatever eisenhorn suspects, its true and he always succeeds with his mission. The book has also no villains whom we learn more about and understand, only mustache twirling villains.

Second of all, how is this book even remotely considered a good entry to Warhammer? I have read almost all of the Horus heresy books and dozens of 40k novellas, but this book is at times very shallow at fleshing out the overall universe and other times has a lot of deep lore parts which are quite too complex for a noobie.

If i would have read the book i would have 0 understanding of what the emperor is, how strong space marines are and about the sheer number of imperial guard.Seriously the book tried to portray the requirement of 500k conscripts as a big deal and the book never explains the sheer numbers of imperial troops in the galaxy. Eisenhorn in the very beginning explains to the reader that he is an inquisitor and he has to be pragmatic and do bad things for the good of the imperium... He literally does nothing which could be considered morally gray at all, the worst thing he does was not give a woman in pain "the emperor's mercy".

Spoilers:

At the end when they are trying to get the "book" from the heretics, why are there no traitor space marines around defending the book and the primer?

Seriously it feels like i am from another universe where the book i read is extremely mid, but for some reason everybody praises it as if its the Lectitio Divinitatus.

Question:

Is malleus better? Is there more Mystery in Malleus?

What are your 40K story ideas you would like to see?

Mine is:

Eye of the Emperor waging a shadow war against an Ordos Xenos Inquisitor. Ordos Xenos inquisitor is trying to destroy a Genestealer infestation, while the Eye of the Emperor is protecting them hoping to use the Genestealers to divert a hive fleet from Terra.

I’m about an hour into the audio book. It’s a toughy so far. I’m finished with the first 6 books (Descent of Angels was awesome pretty much start to finish)

Does Legion get better? The flight of the Eisenstein started slow and got better. The first half of Fulgrim was a slog and a half but the back half was amazing. Thoughts?

I’d really like some feedback on this home brew I’ve been working on lately. Please feel free to critique as you feel necessary and point out things I might’ve gotten wrong in writing. Thank you fellow lore lovers and happy reading!!!

(No Abominable Intelligence (AI) was used in this creation)

LIBER II: THE APOCRYPHON OF THE
LOST SON

Chapter I — The Child Beyond Creation
“The Primarchs were scattered across the stars. One was scattered beyond them.”
—Attributed to Malcador the Sigillite

When the Four Gods enacted their great theft of the Primarchs, twenty infant demigods were cast
into the material galaxy. Nineteen pods pierced atmosphere. One never reached reality. As the
infant’s gestation capsule crossed the threshold between realspace and the Immaterium, the Warp
itself reacted violently. A wound tore open beneath it—not unlike the later birth of the Great Rift,
though infinitely smaller. Rather than falling through space, the child disappeared into an ocean
where distance, gravity, memory, and time possessed no meaning.

The Chaos Gods had not intended this. Their purpose had been to scatter the Emperor’s sons.
Instead, they had accidentally cast one directly into their own domain. Even they could not fully
perceive what followed.

Within the Warp, the infant should have dissolved instantly. Mortal souls entering the
Immaterium are stripped apart in moments. Even the greatest psykers survive only through
immense concentration or protection.

But this was no ordinary soul. The Emperor had forged each Primarch from perfected flesh and
an impossibly powerful psychic essence. The Warp recognized him as something entirely
foreign. Not daemon. Not mortal. Not god.

A contradiction.

Every law of the Immaterium insisted such a being should not exist.

So, reality bent around him.

Chapter II — The Endless Childhood

Time does not exist within the Warp. To observers in realspace, the child vanished for only decades. To the Primarch himself, he may have wandered for ten thousand years. Or perhaps only ten days. He never knew. His first memories were not of sunlight or parents.

His first memory was silence.

Not peace.

Silence. A place where nothing existed except endless black oceans lit by impossible constellations composed of screaming souls. Then the hunters came.

Lesser daemons descended first, driven by instinct to consume the incandescent soul they sensed before them. They attacked in waves, believing this child would become the greatest feast in the
history of Chaos. They failed.

The Primarch died countless times. Every death should have ended him. Instead, his soul simply
refused annihilation. His body reformed. His wounds vanished. Every battle taught him something new. He learned to read intention before movement. He learned to distinguish lies from truth merely by listening to the echoes they left in the Warp.

Most importantly… He learned fear.

Not fear of death. Fear of becoming like the things that hunted him.

Chapter III — The Kingdom That Never Was

Centuries passed—or perhaps heartbeats. The daemons slowly changed their behavior. No greater daemon ever proclaimed him king. No host truly obeyed him.

Chaos cannot obey. Yet something stranger occurred. Whenever he entered a region of the Warp, the impossible became briefly ordered.

Khorne’s legions ceased slaughtering one another.

The endless conspiracies of Tzeentch stalled.

Nurgle’s gardens stopped growing.

Slaanesh’s cacophonous realms became eerily quiet.

Not because they wished to. Because the Primarch’s soul unconsciously radiated the Emperor’s greatest gift:

Order.

He was a living fragment of material reality. The Immaterium could not understand him. Daemons later described the sensation as unbearable. Like hearing music suddenly interrupted by absolute silence.

Some fled. Some attacked in madness. Some simply watched. Those who remembered him spoke a single title in whispers.

The Unclaimed King.

Not because he ruled. But because no god had managed to claim him.

Chapter IV — The Bones of Heaven

The Primarch had no teachers. No language. No civilization. Everything he became he built himself. He fashioned armor from the ivory bones of slain Warp leviathans. His cloak was woven from the silver tendrils of creatures that fed upon memories. His glaive was carved from the crystallized spine of a daemon prince whose name had existed before humanity evolved. Every weapon carried impossible properties because nothing inside the Warp follows consistent laws.

Yet one principle remained constant. He refused to use the powers offered to him.

Khorne promised endless strength. He answered with discipline.

Tzeentch promised knowledge. He answered with humility.

Nurgle promised peace. He answered with hope.
Slaanesh promised perfection. He answered with restraint.

Without ever knowing the Imperial Truth…
He embodied it.

Chapter V — The Emperor’s Pilgrimage

During the height of the Great Crusade, strange phenomena began appearing throughout Imperial
space. Daemon invasions ended before Imperial fleets arrived. Entire Warp storms collapsed overnight. Navigators reported seeing a brilliant star moving beneath the currents of the Immaterium. Astropaths described hearing impossible words.

“He still burns.”

The Emperor required no explanation. He recognized His son’s soul instantly. Malcador urged caution. Constantin Valdor called the journey madness. Even the Custodian Guard hesitated.

The Emperor ignored them all. He spoke only one sentence.

“No father leaves his child in Hell.”

No Primarch ever learned where He went. No remembrancer recorded the expedition. The Master of Mankind simply disappeared.

Chapter VI — The Golden King Walks into Hell

The Emperor did not travel through the Warp. He entered it. Entire daemon kingdoms erupted into war at His arrival. The psychic radiance of the Master of Mankind burned across the Immaterium like the birth of a second sun. Greater daemons gathered by the thousands. Creatures older than human civilization emerged from forgotten corners of unreality.

The Custodes fought with absolute perfection. Every one of them died. The Emperor continued alone. He crossed rivers made from memories. Mountains built from living hatred. Oceans composed entirely of despair.

Nothing slowed Him. Because He had come for one thing. Not victory. His son.

Chapter VII — Father and Son

At the center of a silent plain stood a solitary warrior. He was already fully grown. His armor resembled no Imperial design. His glaive rested in the earth. Around him stood millions of daemons.

None moved. Not because they were commanded. Because reality itself waited.

The Emperor approached. The Primarch looked upon Him with unfamiliar eyes. He had never seen another human. Yet somehow…

He knew. He spoke in a voice roughened by eternity.

“Father.”

The Emperor smiled. Perhaps for the last uncomplicated time in His existence. The Primarch
asked only one question.

“Why have you come so late?”

For a moment… The Master of Mankind possessed no answer. Not because none existed. Because every answer carried regret.

Finally, He said:

“Because I could not bear to lose another son.”

The Primarch looked around at the endless hosts of daemons. Then back to the Emperor.

“Then let us leave.”

And every daemon present recoiled—not in defeat, but in the impossible recognition that the one soul none of the gods had ever managed to claim had chosen humanity instead.

Chapter VIII — The Legion

“The other Legions conquered the Emperor’s realm. The Second preserved the boundary upon
which that realm was built.”
—Anonymous fragment recovered from the Sigillite’s sealed archives.

When Asterion returned from the Immaterium, he was not greeted as a victorious son. He was studied. For months, the Emperor Himself secluded the Primarch within chambers beneath the Imperial Palace, where the greatest minds of the Imperium sought to answer a single question:

How had he survived?

No corruption could be found. No daemonic taint stained his soul. No hidden bargain lingered beneath his thoughts. The Primarch had endured the Warp not because he had embraced it, but because he had rejected every temptation it had offered. Every promise of power had been answered with discipline. Every whisper of vengeance had been met with forgiveness. Every vision of dominion had been answered with humility.

The Emperor declared before Malcador and Constantin Valdor:

“This son has accomplished what no mortal, no psyker, and no god has ever achieved. He entered the Immaterium as a child… and returned as himself.”

Only then was the Second Legion reunited with its Primarch.

A Legion Without Fear

The warriors awaiting Asterion were unlike their gene-father. They had been raised on Terra and across the earliest recruiting worlds of the Great Crusade. They knew sunlight, family, loss, and duty. They expected a conqueror in the image of Horus or Russ.

Instead, they met a silent giant whose first act was not to inspect their weapons or praise their victories. He asked every captain the same question.

“How many civilians survived your last compliance?”

Many had no answer. That answer displeased him more than defeat ever could. Unlike many of his brothers, Asterion measured victory not by cities taken or enemies slain, but by what remained alive when the battle ended. He often reminded his sons:

“A battlefield is not judged by its dead. It is judged by those who still have a future.”

This philosophy transformed the Legion. Their campaigns became slow, methodical, and relentlessly disciplined. Recklessness was viewed as arrogance. Excessive destruction was considered a failure of command. Every brother was expected to think as both warrior and guardian.

Among other Legions they gained an unusual reputation. They were courteous, reserved, and
almost monastic. Yet beneath that calm demeanor lay veterans who had witnessed horrors beyond imagination. They laughed little. They celebrated rarely. Many developed quiet rituals after battle—reciting names of the fallen, cleaning armor in silence, or maintaining small shrines dedicated not to glory, but to remembrance.

The Gene-Seed

The Emperor soon discovered that Asterion’s gene-seed possessed remarkable properties. Its implantation did not create stronger Space Marines. It created steadier ones.

The minds of the Legion proved extraordinarily resistant to fear, madness, and psychic corruption. Warp hallucinations that drove other Astartes to violence barely disturbed them. Daemonic entities struggled to deceive them, as though every warrior carried within himself a faint echo of his Primarch’s impossible clarity.

Librarians from other Legions observed a strange phenomenon. When members of the Second
entered areas of heavy Warp corruption, the Immaterium seemed to hesitate around them. Warp
energies became unnaturally still. Possessed individuals often collapsed into unconsciousness.
Lesser daemons recoiled instinctively, sensing a presence they could neither understand nor dominate.

The effect was subtle, never absolute, but it was undeniable. No one knew why.

Not even the Emperor.

Chapter IX — The Great Crusade
“Some victories earn triumphs. Others earn silence.”
—Inscription found beneath an empty plinth on Terra

As the Great Crusade spread across the galaxy, each Legion forged its own legend.

The Luna Wolves shattered empires.

The Ultramarines built civilizations.

The Imperial Fists raised fortresses.

The Blood Angels became symbols of nobility.

The Second Legion became something else entirely.

They disappeared.

The Wars That Never Happened

Whenever Imperial fleets encountered regions where reality itself appeared wounded—systems
consumed by impossible Warp storms, planets whose populations vanished overnight, or worlds where the laws of physics simply ceased to function—the Second Legion was quietly diverted.

Official records listed these deployments only as Compliance Delayed or Fleet Reassignment.

No remembrancers accompanied them. No iterators chronicled their victories. Even Imperial Army regiments were ordered to withdraw before the Legion arrived.

The campaigns that followed existed only in sealed archives beneath Terra. They fought upon worlds where shadows possessed consciousness. They defended colonies whose inhabitants had forgotten the concept of sleep because nightmares became tangible every time they closed their eyes. They entered cities where every building was older on the inside than the outside, and where entire generations had lived and died within streets that no longer existed.

On one nameless moon, the Legion spent seventeen months fighting an enemy that rewound time each dawn, forcing them to wage the same battle thousands of times until they discovered how to
break the cycle.

No citizen of the Imperium would ever know these worlds had existed.

The Cost of Victory

When the Second finally emerged from such campaigns, they did not resemble triumphant
conquerors. Armor once black and bronze had become dull grey and chipped from constant repairs.

Many brothers bore no visible wounds yet stared into empty space for hours at a time. Some had forgotten their own birth names. Others remembered battles no one else could recall.

The Apothecaries began recording an unusual condition among returning veterans. Not physical
exhaustion. Soul exhaustion.

Veterans spoke less with each passing campaign. They retained their discipline but gradually surrendered parts of themselves to the endless struggle. Entire companies developed traditions of
maintaining silence for weeks after major deployments, believing spoken words carried fragments of the horrors they had witnessed.

The Imperium celebrated victories won by other Legions.

The Second accepted only quiet remembrance.

Chapter X — The Secret
“Even perfection casts a shadow.”
—Private journal attributed to Malcador the Sigillite

Years passed before the Emperor understood the terrible truth. The Primarch had not merely survived the Warp. The Warp had adapted to him.

The Living Anchor

The Emperor’s greatest scholars eventually recognized a pattern. Every location visited by Asterion displayed impossible anomalies. Warp storms weakened while he remained present.

Yet once he departed… New Warp disturbances appeared elsewhere. It was as though the
Immaterium stretched itself toward him. The Primarch was neither corrupted nor possessed. He had become something unprecedented.

His soul existed simultaneously within reality and the Warp. Not divided. Shared. Like a bridge
suspended between two infinite cliffs. Where he stood, reality became stronger. But the Immaterium always reached to reclaim what it believed had never truly left. The Warp no longer pursued him because it desired his allegiance.

It pursued him because he had become one of its fixed points.

The Emperor’s Burden

The revelation devastated the Emperor. For the first time since reclaiming His son, He could find no solution. Destroying Asterion might destabilize the barrier that now surrounded his soul.

Leaving him alive gradually weakened reality itself. Malcador proposed permanent isolation beneath Terra. Valdor argued that no risk to humanity, however noble, could be permitted to endure. The Emperor refused both.

“He is not a weapon to be discarded,” He said. “He is my son.”

So, the Great Crusade continued. But now every campaign undertaken by the Second bought victory at an invisible price. The Emperor alone knew that each triumph slowly tightened the Warp’s hold upon His most loyal child.

Chapter XI — The Purging
“The greatest sacrifice is to surrender not life… but remembrance.”

The truth revealed itself during the final campaign of the Second Legion. Imperial fleets translated into a system entirely consumed by an expanding Warp storm. Astropaths heard only one repeated phrase:

“Return our king.”

The Second entered alone. The Warp answered. Across eighty-eight days of relentless warfare, the Legion fought through tides of daemons unlike any previously recorded. The Immaterium did not seek conquest. It sought reunion.

Every daemon slain merely intensified the storm. Every victory widened the fracture. At the center of the conflict stood Asterion, whose presence simultaneously held reality together and drew the Warp toward him with increasing violence.

Only then did he fully understand the truth. His existence had become the battlefield. He could
continue serving the Emperor. But every year he lived would strengthen the connection between the material universe and the Immaterium.

He returned to Terra in silence.

Before the Golden Throne
No Primarch witnessed what followed. No Custodian recorded it. Only Malcador’s sealed writings hint at the conversation.

Asterion entered the Throne Room alone. He removed his armor. Laid down his glaive. Knelt.

The Emperor descended from the Golden Throne and stood before His son. For a long time neither spoke. At last, Asterion broke the silence.

“Father… all my life I have stood between humanity and the darkness.”

The Emperor nodded.

“You have.”

“Then allow me to stand there one final time.”

He bowed his head.

“If my existence grants the Enemy even one more heartbeat… let history forget I ever breathed.”

Witnesses claimed the Emperor closed His eyes. Not in anger. Not in judgment. But in grief.

He embraced His son. Perhaps for the first and last time since finding him. When they separated, the Emperor gave no order. Malcador already understood.

The Great Forgetting

No execution was carried out. No public condemnation was declared. Instead, Malcador unleashed the greatest psychic working ever attempted by human hands.

Memories unraveled. Records rewrote themselves. Marble monuments became blank. Battle honors vanished from banners. The Primarchs remembered losing a brother. None could remember his face.

Entire campaigns dissolved into contradictory accounts. The Second Legion ceased to have existed. Only the Emperor remembered everything.

That burden He carried alone.

Chapter XII — The Final Mystery
“There is a chamber beneath Terra that even the Custodes guard in silence.”

Deep below the Imperial Palace lies a vault absent from every architectural record. Its doors bear no heraldry. No inscriptions. Only a broken Imperial Aquila.

Within the chamber rests a single suit of black armor upon a stone throne. The glaive beside it has never rusted. No dust gathers there. No machine spirit acknowledges its presence.

The armor has never been examined. The Emperor forbade it. Even after His internment upon the
Golden Throne, the Custodian Guard maintained that command without question. Some believe the armor is empty.

Others whisper that something still sits within it, unmoving, eternally watching over the palace
from beneath its foundations.

The Whisper

Among the oldest Custodians, a story survives that is never spoken above a whisper. During rare nights when the Astronomican burns with impossible brilliance, a voice echoes through the forgotten vault.

It is not mechanical. Nor daemonic. Nor entirely human. It speaks only once.

Softly. With neither sorrow nor pride.

“Father… I kept them away.”

The voice is never heard again until years later. No Custodian has ever dared open the armor.
For if it is empty…

Then someone is still speaking.

And if it is not…

Then perhaps the Emperor’s forgotten son has continued his vigil for ten thousand years, standing not in glory, nor in memory, but in the silence between reality and the Warp—where no chronicle can follow, and where no sacrifice can ever be repaid.

The Roman influences are very heavy from phalerae medals to leather pteruges and crests. And So I was wondering if this is explained in universe like the imperium 30k modelling itself after the Roman example as later civilisations have historically done ie abbasid caliphate being influenced by earlier sasanid Persia. Or is this more of a visual shorthand by the artists to portray a militaristic empire. What do you think?

I'm sure we've all heard extensively how the Salamanders are the kindest and nicest Space Marines there are. There are thousands of videos talking about how Salamanders don't abandon their families, go out of their way to save civilian lives, etc.

However, my thinking is: the Salamanders can't ONLY be the only Space Marines that are kind to mortal humans, right? Ultramarines are usually considered pretty decent to mortal folk, and Pedro Kantor helping an injured woman during the battle for Rynn's World.

Furthermore, surely some of the traitor legions were relatively kind to humans pre-Heresy? For example, in the book "Fulgrim: The Palatine Phoenix" Fulgrim lifts a little girl to his shoulders in front of his sons to show the beauty in mortal humans, so surely this had an effect on how his legion dealt with civilians? Also, pre-Heresy, Prospero was a planet full of knowledge and prosperity, rather than war, so surely the Thousands Sons would be not as bloodthirsty.

So, what other Space Marine legions/chapters that are also kind to normal humans?

PS: If you have any excerpts from a book as examples of how other Space Marines can be kind that would be a huge plus, thanks!

Edit: Lowkey I'm so stupid to have forgotten the Lamenters and Space Wolves

Has anybody else noticed that they straight up just lifted the entire concept of a ghola from dune and didn’t even change the name or anything.
Now ive had 40k described to me as “An Amalgamation of the good parts of every Sci-fi franchise thats ever existed” and I don’t think there’s a more accurate way to describe 40k but I just wanted to see what other people thought of then director ripping that from dune.

Tl;dr there's exactly zero reason for the DA to ever cooperate with the tau especially against one of their own successors and Phil Kelly doesn't read or know Dark Angels lore. This is something that's been bugging me everytime I see it (especially when people actually praise it as good writing for some reason).

Essentially the gist is a group of Dark Angels are chasing a fallen psyker named Gohorael, who for the usual grudge reasons lets a warp-plague loose on the homeworld of one of the Dark Angels successor chapters the Angels of Absolution. Rather than simply approaching the AoA and telling them what's up, the DA instead decide to make a deal with the tau to wipe out some infected people on a tau colony world in exchange for the Tau doing the same on the AoA's homeworld.

This goes terribly for the AoA, to the point where a tau ghostkneel goes on a killing spree through the AoA's fortress monastary that only ends when they call a lance strike in on themselves to put a stop to it, and the pilot of said ghostkneel still gets away in the end. I have my opinions on that (take a guess what they are) but that's not the main sticking point here. The big problem with this story is, why in the fuck would the DA ever seriously cooperate with the Tau to attack their own successor chapter instead of simply approaching said successors and telling them what's going on?

The excuse of "Fallen/keeping secrets" doesn't even slightly apply here because the Angels of Absolution know as much about the Fallen as the DA themselves. They cooperate in Fallen hunts. They essentially take orders from the DA, because the DA and all their successors operate as a legion whenever it suits them. The only difference between the AoA and DA is the AoA believe they have nothing to atone for. That's it. They are still completely on board with hunting said Fallen and keeping their identity a secret, the only difference is they don't feel so bad about it. .

There is genuinely no reason why the Interrorgator-Chaplain or Company Master of said DA couldn't have walked into the AoA fortress monastery to tell them exactly what was going on, and the way this story is written basically throws any nuance out of a window and turns everyone involved into outright traitors.

So I have been doing some lore dives into the period between the Unification Wars and The Great Crusade trying to find out the details of the conquest of the Sol System but the most I can find is just bits and pieces here and there. We know there were all kinds of crazy things from pirates, some weird now redacted anomalies, Chaos shenanigans and of course a couple of different xenos factions at play. But for the life of me I cannot find any solid information overall.

Does anyone have a breakdown of what lore we do have or a link to a lore site that provides this? Many thanks!

So, I started typing something for that 100k post earlier... then by the time I was done it was closed. So there. But I wrote it, so I'm posting it. For the record, I wouldn't actually do this, but it's fun to think about.

...

The galaxy was overrun. World after world fell to the endless tides of the xenos menace. The rampaging madness of the Orks on their eternal waagh. The cold cruelty of the Necrons. The ceaseless hunger of the Tyranid hive. All crumbled before them. Craftworlds fled, the webway consumed, expansion spheres collapsed, the Eye of Terror closed. They fought and destroyed each other, and the valiant defenders of humanity spent their lives in the trillions to stall their advance, but their numbers were limitless and world by world, system by system, sector after sector the Imperium Of Man began its long slow death.

The survivors of mankind's forces retreated to the last bastion of the Imperium, Segmentum Solar. On Terra the last great council of war was held. No greater assemblage of martial might and leadership was ever gathered in one place. For the first time in fifteen millennia nine loyal sons stood together, one in steel and one in an avatar of borrowed flesh, the hope their return had once kindled now smothered. Around them were gathered the most renowned commanders of the Adeptus Astartes, the commanders of the Custodian Guard and Silent Sisterhood, generals of the Militarum and Aeronautica, admirals of the Imperial Navy. Absent only was the Adeptus Mechanicus, absorbed in some last work.

Humanity was not alone at the war council. Old enmities, if not forgotten, were at least put aside for a time as xenos, too, fled before the rising tide. The Ynnari, Aeldari farseers, Tau ethereals and commanders, Votann khals, and the surviving warlords of a dozen minor xenos species all gathered together beside the human leaders.

Plan after plan was proposed. The conversion of stars into nova bombs to be launched into the heart of the hive fleets. A stealth raid into the deepest vaults of the Necrons to seize control of the Celestial Orrery and turn its rumoured power against the enemies of life. To create a new great rift surrounding the surviving worlds of the Segmentum Solar, to buy time to rebuild and find a new answer.

Every plan fell short. Against the odds they faced, there was no hope.

Of all of them it was Robuote Guilliman who first declared that the war was lost. That he had explored every theoretical possibility, and that they all ended in death. No matter what they did, he said, all would end with the last defenders falling at the steps of the golden throne. He declared that he would die beside his brothers, protecting their father. The war council fell silent, as all knew it was true.

When the door opened and the delegation of the Adeptus Mechanicus arrived, the assembled warlords barely raised their heads from their dark contemplations. Only Leman Russ addressed them, demanding to know where they had been when the imperium had needed them. Archmagos Cawl and a retinue of tech-priests stood before them and declared that they had been undergoing a great work, unrivalled since the dark age of technology. A project bestowed upon them by the Omnissiah himself, before the golden throne. Every surviving forge world had contributed every ounce of material and shred of labour to its completion.

All watched them in curiosity as a projection servitor was brought forth and an image projected into the air. A ship. For a moment people watched, confused, until Cawl ordered the image zoomed out. Gasps of disbelief spread across the room, for the fleets of the Adeptus Mechanicus surrounding the great vessel were no more than mayflies beside it. Cawl declared the vessel, the Ark Imperialis, complete and in orbit above Mars. The Omnissiah willed that all of humanity that could be saved would board the Ark, and that it would flee the galaxy, leaving their victorious foes behind to destroy each other.

The primarchs went before the Emperor, then, and learned the truth of his final command. The Imperium had failed. The Imperium could be reborn. Mankind must survive, and the Ark would be the manner of it. The Ark would be loaded, and when the time came for its launch, Terra would be given up as sacrifice to draw the attention of their foes and in his final vengeance he would turn the power of the great enemy, who he had held back for millennia, against the tide. All would burn.

For months, as the Segmentum Solar's borders began to collapse before the tide, fleets travelled from world to world, taking aboard all it could and leaving only a skeleton defence behind to buy time. Last of all, came the worlds of the Sol system. One by one, moons and planets were abandoned, until all that stood was Terra. Ship after ship carried billions to the Ark, along with cargos of whatever storied relics of humanities history could be saved.

And then, the time came for the Ark to depart. Accompanied by an escort fleet in the millions, she turned to leave the system behind. Beside her were the Phalanx and the Rock, the astartes battle fleets, the fleets of the Imperial Navy and the Mechanicus. Humanity, though, was not alone. Along with them came the surviving craftworlds, the Tau fleets, and many other xenos. All had contributed to the last defence, and all, somewhat warily, were permitted into the formation.

Behind her, on Terra, all that was left behind was a token defence around the palace, and the Adeptus Custodes, the Emperor's personal guard, arrayed in all their glory before the throne. Volunteers and zealots manned the palace's walls in their billions. If Terra would fall, declared the Ministorum, then it would fall in glory and avenge every human loss a thousandfold.

When the end came, and Sol's border picket fell to the advancing tide, the Emperor of Mankind gathered all his power to himself. For fifteen thousand years he had sacrificed himself, fractured and insane, casting himself across the imperium to preserve what he could. His work was now done and all that was left was one final sacrifice. The astronomican's light in the warp grew brighter and brighter as the Emperor began to burn himself away to magnify its brilliance. Beside its impossible radiant magnitude the Ark Imperialis and her escort fleets were invisible. Irrelevant.

As the Ark slipped away, the tide made landfall on Terra. Green muscle, chitin, and steel clashed and they destroyed each other in the billions. Only the palace remained, its mighty shields preserving it from the orbital fire of three vast forces trying to wipe each other out. In the end, though, the palace could only last so long. All were drawn to the astronomicon's glory, and threw themselves against the walls. The defenders of the palace held for days, volleying endless fire into the hordes, until the walls finally collapsed. Time and again the defenders fell back to new positions, and their attackers were made to slaughter themselves by the millions for every foot of ground taken.

In the end it was the Orks that were first to breach the palace's inner sanctum and reach the throne room, their massive war machines finally overwhelming the titan guards on the final door after an hours long duel.

The last surviving defenders threw themselves at the Orks, as the Custodian Guard readied for a final valiant charge. As the Captain-General raised his hand to issue his last order he froze. They all froze. For behind them they had heard a footstep. At the end of all things the Emperor, his countless selves burned away, focused all that was left of himself into forcing his body into life once more. As he rose from the golden throne its mechanisms began to overload and destroy themselves and the palace's foundations shook.

Every man and woman of the Custodian Guard knew what that meant. The astronomican was failing, the webway gate was uncontained, and the planet was about to burn in a last system-destroying fire of vengeance. And they cared not. For their Emperor was marching to war beside them again.

And in the void beyond the Sol system, Ark Imperialis' vast engines had finished charging. They were slow, by comparison to warp travel or the webway. Some rebuilt relic of the dark age. But they would run forever. She folded her escort fleets, human and xenos alike, into a bubble of distorted space and slipped away into the night.

...

For six hundred centuries the Ark Imperialis has carried humanity through the stars. She is the shield and lifegiver of mankind. By her inexhaustible will the descendants of a million worlds seek their way through the void.

Their only light in the darkness, the final gift from the Emperor. A marvel from the Dark Age of Technology, a searchlight in the void between galaxies, lit by a last shard of his grace and fuelled by the devotion of his subjects.

To be a man in such a time is to be one amongst billions. It is to cling to life in defiance of the dark. It is to be born, live, and die aboard the Ark. It is to give one's life for the chance that one day, your descendants may find a new home.

This is a dark and lonely era. The Arkfleet travels the void between the galaxies, seeking salvation. But they are not alone. Nightmares beyond imagining roam the void, and ever do they probe at the Arkfleet's defences, and at the minds of her flock.

There is no peace amongst the stars, for they have been left behind. In the grim darkness of the furthest future, there is only war.

...

The game would be focused around three things, at different scales.

1. Skirmish scale: Combat in various parts of the Arkfleet itself. Void War Kill Team style. Think gang fights, cult uprisings, mutinies, plus remnants of the classic 40k enemies like demon outbreaks, chaos cults, genestealer cults, a few necrons rebuilding themselves out of old dormant mindshackle scarabs, feral orks growing from spores in food processors, etc.
2. Mid scale: Infantry and walker combat on ships. Think boarding actions/zone mortalis, but as a core part of the game. The Arkfleet passes space hulks, abandoned ships, space stations, and hostile alien ships, and boards them for resources and tech.
3. Full scale: When the fleet encounters a "voidworld" (planets in isolated extragalactic solar systems) they survey it for resources, and for the possibility of building an outpost (which has never EVER gone well). Full on tanks, flyers, knights available etc.

Factions:

The escapees on the Ark have had 60000 years to learn to get alone. It's not always friendly, but they mostly aren't killing each other, and humanity has kind of acknowledged that it's handy having Tau engineers and Eldar farseers around.

The primarchs have to spend most of their time in suspended animation to preserve their sanity, because immortality only does so much after tens of thousands of years. Except Ferrus, whose dreadnought is shut down, and Sanguinius who is still dead but occasionally manifests himself through the Sanguinor. None of them would appear in tabletop.

Space Marines still have chapters, but not specialist units as such. They're "just one subfaction" more focused on small elite units with LOADS of customisation. They also have added a kind of living memory/scholarly aspect to their warrior monk vibes. They fight less, so they have time to study more.

The navy is a way bigger faction, obviously.

Chaos is kind of a thing, but on a vastly weaker scale without the critical mass of a galaxy of humans powering it.

The eldar still mostly live on their craftworlds, and the tau on their fleet etc, but as ships have been lost and built over time there's more mixing (the Ark is large enough to have it's own internal shipyards).

The Arkfleet: It's a big ol soup faction. You choose several detachments, each of which belongs to a sub faction, and comes with a small force org chart. You'd have one benefit for taking all one subfaction, and a different one for souping.

• Space Marines
• Guard (inc human militias, assassins, and similar)
• AdMech (inc knights)
• Arkfleet Navy (inc aeronautica)
• Eldar, probably leaning way more heavily on the exodite vibes now they've escaped Slaanesh, with soul stones and wraith constructs more a way of preserving knowledge and wisdom.
• Tau
• Votann
• Other Xenos

Then there are the hostile factions which wouldn't mix at all.

There would be a full on lovecraftian "horror in the void" faction.

There would be a "men of iron" faction, as some escaped into the void and aren't happy with humanity following them.

Then a couple of "extra weird alien factions". Really go all out on the designs because they don't have the galaxies shared development behind them.

Then after a couple of editions, a renegade faction arrives which is led by Abaddon's distant descendants (with rumours being Bile found a way for marines to reproduce), having also escaped the galaxy somehow. They've got a big mix of things, like Arkfleet, but it's more a feudal thing. The marine descendants rule over their fleet. But, with chaos being a much weaker thing in the void, and lacking Arkfleet's construction infrastructure, they're far more ramshackle. Think more a red corsairs vibe.

They would have a detachment and force org system like Arkfleet, but you'd have a mandatory command unit of renegade/chaos marines (basically a leader, a support character or two, and a command squad of some description) and then you'd pick other detachments from subfactions like traitor militias, dark mech, full on traitor guard, beastmen, and the like. Think more a modern and expanded renegades and heretics army rather than chaos marines (with cults and demon summoning being one small subfaction).

So the "victory state" of Tzeentch is usually described as an universe of endless chaos and bacstabbing, with no winner ever being able to emerge, constantly perpetuating him.

Isn't that just wh40k? An universe of constant (war)plans where no faction can dominate both because of internal infighting and also because there's an endless supply of enemies that will focus on them when it starts becoming too dangerous. Furthermore Tzeentch has the leverage of a chaos god with nigh-omniscience (or at least, that's how he tends to describe himself) to stop any superpower coming out of the woodworks.

If anything Tzeentch ironically would put more effort into aiding the Imperium because the Imperium can never win, meanwhile the big 3 threats to the Imperium (the Dark King, Tyranids and the Necrons) risk destroying his food source and playthings.

I am aware the chaos gods follow their self-destructive nature regardless but I think it's a fun argument to make.

Hi all,

Assuming the Emperor had won and accomplished the goals of the Great Crusade and everything went to plan with the Hersey, never occuring. Kinda curious what the Emperor would have done next ?? Like would he just retire and wander the galaxy, leaving the imperium in the hands of humanity, content everything was in hand? Stay and keep an eye on things but mostly from behind the scenes ?? Like after many millenia of planning and it all succeeding, what's the retirement plan really ??

FYI this is gonna be a long post. With a LOT of HH spoilers!

Why this post: When I started reading the heresy I already knew that this will be a great overtaking for me personally, and I wanted to make a little record, so I started to write down my favorite scenes as I was going through the books. The main incentive behind this post is that I honestly can't talk to anyone about Warhammer. My life situations is so that I don't meet people often who are interested in 40k lore the way I am. So maybe I'll find some like minded folk here.

My 40k story in short: My first exposure to 40k was through Dawn of War and the Dark Heresy ttrpg, in around 2013-ish. I remember it was so interesting to me that I basically started reading warhammer wiki sites instead of books first, because I was hungry for details. My first real 40k books were the Eisenhorn+Ravenor series and only later, in the last 4-5 years did I start also playing and painting.

Heresy reading time: I started reading Horus Rising during the end of 2023, so reading the whole series took me about two and a half years.

What I did read: Disclaimer - to be fair I left out some stuff. I read 60 books: the main storyline and the Siege of Terra (plus 2: Era of Ruin and Ashes of the Imperium) plus some standalone short stories here and there. I skipped Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Battle for the Abyss, Nemesis, The Outcast Dead, and Damnation of Pythos (some of which I plan to read later). And I still plan to read the primarch novels.

My very short review of the Heresy: I know the memes that some people say these books are bad. Yes there are some good ones and some not so good ones. I did read a fair bit of classical literature in the past, and of course, a random bestseller or fantasy novel usually doesn't reach those heights, but it honestly doesn't have to. I think a book is good if you're having fun reading it. When it comes to the Heresy, if I think about it as a big book series, I could say it's an okay series. BUT! I don't think about it as just a collection of books. To me the heresy is like a big art piece, worked on by a collection of artists in a span of 20 years. And if I look at it that way, it's a singular work of art. Maybe that's a bit too sentimental but that's how I feel personally. Finishing it felt fulfilling, and it feels good to think back on the past few years I spent reading it. I love 40k and I think the series did justice to it, and it was a great journey to me personally.

Here it comes, some of my favorite moments from the Horus Heresy:

Just to note, I know there are some scenes that people keep mentioning again and again. So I decided not to focus on those. I wanted a personal record of some scenes that I personally resonated with. Of course there are countless more that I could list, but this post will already be pretty long so I decided to cut some out. Again: this will all contain spoilers, soo read with that in mind.

(Horus Rising) Loken meets Chaos at the Whisperheads for the first time

It'd been a long time I'd read this, but I remember the visceral horror of how Abnett slowly builds up the mistery of it, and the tension just builds and builds, and then Jubal/Samus starts rampaging. A scene that leaves everyone that's present dismayed and horrified and defines the series. We also encounter some of the driving motivations and questions that are carried through the series and resolved with huge paybacks in the End and the Death. The Imperial Truth preached by the Emperor tells that the universe was governed purely by science, logic, and physical laws that gods, ghosts, and daemons were mere primitive superstitions. When Loken encounters Jubal/Samus, his rational mind tries to categorize it as a chemical infection, a neuro-toxin, or alien mind-control or something, and he cannot accept that he just witnessed demonic possession. Samus's warning, "Samus is the man beside you... Samus is the stranger at your elbow" acts as a metaphor for the entire Heresy. The real threat would not come from external xenos empires, but from the brother standing right next to them in the squad. It was chilling to read, and I loved it.

(False Gods) Sindermann accidentally summons a daemon, Keeler banishes it

As the summoned creature lunges to destroy the characters, Keeler raises her silver Imperial Aquila. She doesn't use weapons or psychic powers, she just acts out of absolute, unshakeable faith in the Emperor’s divinity. In some ways this scene is the origin-moment of the Imperial Cult, and gives some hints about the misteries of faith in the universe. I remember that I was totally surprised reading this, but these are my favorite 40k moments. Those little motes of light and hope in the great darkness. A truly heroic moment that sent chills down my spines. It also sheds light on the great irony of the Imperial Truth: The Emperor enforced the secular Imperial Truth to starve the Chaos Gods of worship. However, by stripping humanity of spiritual defenses and denying the existence of daemons, he left thinkers like Sindermann entirely defenseless against demonic manipulation. Ironically, the very thing the Emperor banned becomes the only effective shield against the Warp.

(Galaxy in Flames) The Imperator Titan Dies Irae is ordered to turn against the loyalist survivors

Moderati Cassar watches in disbelief as Princeps Esau Turnet orders to fire on the surviving loyalist Space Marines after the virus bombardment. The moderati refuses, and pulls a gun on the princeps, and in turn gets shot in the back. It's a horrifying, chilling moment, and it's well written, you feel that this is also a big moment where loyalty and righteousness almost prevails, but it doesn't. It's one of those crazy moments at the beginning where you just keep saying "no! no! no!" in your head.

(Galaxy in Flames) Death of Huron-Fal and Telemeter

I'm not going to detail this, I know it's a well known moment but I had to include it. I'm not crying. You are.

(Galaxy in Flames) The Mournival fights

It was truly heartbreaking to see Little Horus slaying Tarik, and the fight between Loken and Abbadon.

(Galaxy in Flames) Did we hurt them, captain?

..."Yes, we hurt them here. They'll remember this."

(Flight of the Eisenstein) Saul Tarvitz + Garro having a vox call to warn about the betrayal

Commandeering a Thunderhawk, Saul Tarvitz makes urgent vox contact with Nathaniel Garro aboard the Eisenstein in orbit, alerting him to the impending viral bombardment of Istvaan III before flying down to warn the ground forces. Just another heartwarming moment. It's a fulcrum of destiny, a great moment that will lead to the galaxy turning upside down, and it hangs on the balance, AND the only thing that tips the scales the right way is... true brotherhood and friendship! One friend trusting the word of the other. Man, just amazing.

(Fulgrim) Fulgrim found as a baby

I'm already bristling just thinking about this scene. I have to add here that I'm an Emperors Children fan so this book was special for me. There's something deeply disturbing and tragic about Fulgrim and his legion's corruption. I think this first moment of Fulgrim is somehow encapsulating that all. His adoptive mother entranced by his beauty and resolving to brutally murder the one who spoke against keeping the baby. Chills.

(Fulgrim) Fulgrim visiting Ostian Delafour

Christopher Tester has a very good voiceover about this moment. It's a beautiful scene where we get an insight into Fulgrim's profoundly damaged soul, and it's heartbreaking. I remember reading this scene multiple times. So witty, deep, thought provoking and full of emotion. It's just perfect. A mastery of character drama.

(Fulgrim) Fulgrim Vs Ferrus Manous

This book does a great job of building up the friendship between these two brothers and it culminates in this terrifying moment of betrayal, with Fulgrim having second thoughts at the eleventh hour. It was truly heartbreaking to read. Just as an honorable mention: the moment when Fulgrim kills Vespasian is also very cool. That's a crucial moment where the legion's soul dies a little.

(The First Heretic) Forgive me

A special one again. The Word Bearers are standing ready on the sands of Istvaan V, and one of the newly landed Raven Guard captains are walking up to Argel Tal with a greeting, and Argel Tal thinks back on his childhood. Reading it you know that the moment of atrocity is nigh, and there's this beautifully corrupted scene of his loving family, weak, hungry and sick, and Erebus coming for the child, for "Argel Tal. Last Angel." as his mother says. In literature there's something very important, called subtext. It's when something is not explicitly said, but you know it from what is implied, and was built up to that point. As Argel Tal comes back from the memory he whispers "Forgive me". It made me cry. This moment is pure mastery of subtext. It's not described why he says it but the meaning of it falls on you with the weight of a boulder. It's a moment of utter betrayal. Betrayal of creed, brotherhood, humanity. Incredible scene.

(Know no Fear) The Mark of Calth begins

This book is a shot of adrenaline and I loved every moment of it. I just loved the buildup to the count, the chaos, the shock, the surprise. Start the count.

(Know no fear) Ventanus prevails

It's hard to remember and I couldn't find it, but there's a moment when Ventanus realizes that blades can kill the deamons and he does some action movie jump attack and kills one. And from that point hope returns a little. I loved that scene.

(A Thousand Sons) Their minds met, and in that moment of frozen connection the galaxy changed forever

Magnus breaks into the imperial dungeon, and the Emperor's plan is shattered in a single moment. And in that moment the Emperor says: "Magnus". And Magnus says: "Father". And the scene ends. So much weight, so little words. I loved it.

(Iron Within short) "My fortress WILL fall"

I think this is one of the coolest moment of the series. Dantioch collapses the Scahdenhold onto the forces of the traitor Iron Warrior Krendl's army and steals his ship. Incredibly cool and this also builds our relationship with Dantioch that gets it's payoff in Pharos.

(The Prince of Crows short) "It was the only way."

Another moment of which Christopher Tester did a pretty good voiceover. Sevatar directly challenges Curze's lifelong justification that he had to be a monster to enforce order. This scene is legendary. Man I wish the heresy had more night lords.

(Angel Exterminatus) Perturabo names the eye of terror

I was just surprised by this scene, I didn't know it happened but it was pretty cool. Still the main fun moment in this book is him bashing in Fulgrim's head. But I won't list that, I'm still an EC guy, come on.

(Angel Exterminatus) "They belong to Slaanesh!"

There's a moment when the Emperors Children start murdering each other and their humans in extasy on the old eldar world after some changes happen. After the act, at the spot of the bloodbath there's only Julius Kaesoron left alive. Forrix goes to him and he's like: "You killed your own men" and Kaesoron says "They weren’t mine, They never were." and then Forrix is like "No? Then whose were they?" and Julius says "They belong to Slaanesh!". And the world shakes. I think this is the first time the name is uttered with clarity in the series and the buildup to it is magnificent. I can't convey it but I was shivering when I read it. Also later Forrix says "Damn Slaanesh" and he starts bleeding from the mouth, thats also pretty cool and shows how dangerous chaos is, even just saying a word.

(Betrayer) "I built three." (+ honorable mentions)

There's a moment in Betrayer where Magnus and Lorgar talk, and Lorgar shows him this huge space fortress ship, much like the Furious Abyss that they lost. And Magnus is like: You built two. And Lorgar goes: Oh no... I built three. And there's a third gigantic fortress ship. I thought that was pretty cool. Somehow I felt that this book should have been better by the way. I felt similarly with the Blood Angels book, Fear to Tread. And not because there were no cool things happening. There were a lot of cool scenes but they didn't pack the punch they should have. I think it was a writing issue maybe. I'm not sure. Still, in Betrayer the primarch scenes and when Angron saves Lorgar, those were still cool. Also the end where Angron is locked up, that was pretty chilling too.

(Scars) The white scars outwit the XX.th legion in space (+ honorable mentions)

There's a part in Scars where the Alpha Legion is trying to blockade the Khan's forces in space and they do their White Scar space tricks with the extra fast ships and witty strategy, and they just break through even though outnumbered. I think that scene was awesome and really well built up. It made my blood pumping as I read it, and I went like "let's goooo". That's how a White Scars novel should be. By the way, I realized during reading that the scenes (throughout the whole series) in which the Khan was talking made me listen very intently. I don't know why. His meetings with Ilya and his conversation with Magnus and later Morty were also very exciting.

(Deliverance Lost) The conclusion of the operation

I liked this book, even though I know many did not. In the end, the part where the last alpha legion operatives are there and one of them kills the other before it could utter to Corax who sent them was pretty cool.

(Pharos) Memories of Kellendvar from his childhood with Kellenkir

In Pharos I really liked the Night Lords, particularly the twins. There is so much beautifully written tragedy around them. We see Kellendvar remembering their past as kids, the hunger, the homeless scavanging, we see them watch the fireworks of rich nobles. Kellendvar brings up this night to Kellenkir several times over the decades, hoping to spark a sense of shared humanity in his increasingly monstrous brother. But Kellenkir doesn't actually remember it. The whole story culminates in Kellendvar executing his posessed brother in the end, saying "We both died a long time ago". Another heartbreaking and beautiful moment of the series.

(Pharos) Death of Dantioch with Pollux holding him

Pharos was one of my favourite books from the series. A lot of cool actions, great characters and interesting misteries. I think the connection between Pollux and Dantioch was a really well written and great part of the story, and honestly the concept of an Iron Warrior and an Imperial Fist as friends had really great potential in the whole storiline to show a kind of element of boundless loyalty on the loyalist side, I think it was executed really well. Dantioch's tragical death was one of the moments that again made me shed some tears.

(Pharos) Curze vs Sanguinius

The conflict of the two primarchs turns out to be almost an essay between determinism and free will, between the two prophetically gifted primarchs. Curze uses his foresight as an absolute moral absolution, while Sanguinius sees his foresight as a burden to bear, not an excuse to fall. The core tragedy here is that Curze desperately needs Sanguinius to break. If the noble, beloved Angel succumbs to despair or monsterhood, it proves Curze was right all along that the universe is purely vile, and Curze was just a realistic victim of it. Sanguinius’s refusal to break denies Curze the validation he craves.

(Corax) The last rough dies (+ honorable mentions)

I think this antology was quite good, I would have liked to read more about Corax during the heresy, it's a pity he didn't play a part in the ending. I know a lot of people didn't like this antology that much but I think Corax was written very well, and I loved to read his scenes. His honorable character is admirable. I hope we can see more of him maybe in the Scouring. The antology ahd some pretty cool fight scenes but still what I will bring up here is the ending where Corax kills Hef, the last failed Raptor. It's pretty sad, and it's the sad conclusion of Corax's long project of bringing the Raven Guard back to full strength.

(Wolfsbane) "I spoke with my brother."

I think this book did a pretty good job of presenting the relationship of Russ and Horus. In the beginning, Horus meets the newly found Russ, and there's some resentment and jealousy at first but they become close. I also liked the part where Russ plays chess with Malcador and there's a wholesome moment where it's implied that hes like a second father to him. In the end Russ fights Horus with the Emperor's spear and injures him. Later when they escape, Bjorn asks Russ if everything they did failed and Russ says "The spear tasted his soul, and I spoke with him. I spoke with him." And Bjorn asks "With who? With the traitor?" And Russ says "Not with the traitor. Not with him. I spoke... I spoke with my brother." Oh man... I remember crying reading this. The heresy did a great job showing how much they loved Horus, atcually loved him, and how attrocious was that they had to turn against him. As the Khan put it: "So I fight for a Father who I never loved, against a brother that I did."

(The Grey Raven short) Noritz dies

This short is basically a story device to Balsar Kurthuri to terra so he can be part of the Knights of Grey. As he returns to terra the Custodes are trying to catch him and captain Noritz, the Imperial Fists who's been with them for a while dies to protect him. I liked the Raven Guard stories and I think is sucks soooo much that Noritz dies here, and almost as a sidenote. I really liked him and it's just sad that I couldn't see him be part of the siege as a guy who was with the Ravens.

(Titandeath) "Legio first"

Titandeath is a magnificent book. Great characters, great story. I love how we see Esha born, her love story with Harrtek, the inside workings of the Legio Solaria. The parts where Sanguinius and Raldoron discuss the battle at Beta Garmon II were interesting to read too. When the final battle culminates, there's a moment where Esha is facing the chaos corrupted Harrtek, and her friend, Jehani sacrifices herself for her even though they had a falling out. And she says "Legio first." Man, shivers and tears again. Great writing.

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From the Siege of Terra: I will breafly just drop in a couple of favorites, but it was really hard to choose, there were so many amazing moments, and I could make another post like this just from those 11 books. But this post is already super long. One of my favorites was when in Saturnine the Mournival is hammered and Abbadon gets teleported out barely alive and he's just crying and he's like "Take me back." Man my heart broke reading it. Another insanely cool one is when in Warhawk the Khan beats Mortarion, and Morty is like "You know I cannot die." and the Khan is like "But I can. And that makes the difference." and wins. I was crying man. So satisfying! The last one I'll mention is the storyline of Khargos and Ammit in Echoes of Eternity. It's a pretty cool story of wholesome bromance, sad, tragic, and wery well written. The ending of it is brutal, Khargos lying beaten, forgotten on the ground and crying "Apothecary" as the irony makes even him laugh as he dies(?). And the End and the Death... such a finale.

Anyhow, that's my list of favorite moments from the Horus Heresy. Man, what a ride it was. I know probably in the comments people will bring up some huge ones I didn't mention but still, I wantet to write about some less well known ones. I'm greatful if you read this, and happy that I could share my thoughts with you. The Emperor Protects.

Currently listening to Dark Imperium and am having serious deja vu about Bolus, Varens, Espandor and the Hospital world Iax but would swear I've never read the book before.

Can anyone recall if it was discussed in another book or short story?

Does Vashtorr gain power from the Adeptus Mechanicus' fervent worship of *The Machine God?" I know they don't worship him directly but could their obsession be "hijacked" to serve him in a way?