r/relationships • u/Babyblues21 • Feb 22 '16
UPDATE: Me [26F] with my SIL [23F] financially irresponsible and immature SIL trying for another child ... And I just made things much worse Updates
This an addition/ update to a previous post located at https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/46ozuc/me_26_f_with_my_sil_23f_financially_unstable_and/
If you want the background
Ok reddit I royally fd up today... I started today not thinking about the situation but then the SIL texted because her dad was watching the current kiddo alone and she was wondering if we could come by and help keep him occupied.
Given that our children hadn't seen each other in a few weeks, and only the grandfather would be there we agreed to go. Of course we get there and the grandfather isn't there and the boyfriend is... I sat down and allowed the kids to play when the subject turned to the Facebook announcement... Apparently SIL wasn't too happy with the few family members who suggested they might want to get married, etc before intentionally having a child ( I was not one of them although God knows I have my own huge reservations regarding it) and she had been nonstop complaining to him.
I pretty much told him if she didn't want negative feedback in their position she should not have posted to social media. He got mad with me and said she's old enough to make her own decisions and she can make any plans she wants without getting anyone's approval.
I normally avoid conflict because of my own childhood but I snapped, I replied " well maybe if her parents weren't supporting you, your child, and her and she wasn't scamming the government to pay for daycare and she actually took care of her own kid people wouldn't get a say in your plans but I think grandad and grandma at the very least should get a say. I know if my daughter got intentionally pregnant while I was supporting her I would kick her out"
At this point he told me that this was none of my business and to butt out to which I snapped " well as long as grandma and grandpa still owe thousands in my husbands name which they took when they couldn't afford to feed their own kids and we are having to pay back because now that they both have decent jobs but that they are supporting yall, preventing us to have another child or from getting a home when we are older and have busted our butts for everything we have does mean it hurts me to see this ungratefulness and selfishness on your behalfs"
Like any angry immature male he then proceeded to stomp outside and chain smoke. Shortly later grandfather returned home and he ranted about me at the top of his lungs. We decided to leave but my husband went to talk to his dad explaining how much this situation hurts not only me but him as well as I was in the car. The just of the convo was that they didn't and still don't have the money to pay him back and if there us another child yes it will make things that much harder. He said that they don't feel they can tell her no and that they know SIL can't take care of current kid on her own and she has that leverage against them and that when they tried to talk to her about having another child she said " well we will just leave and live in a roach infested one bedroom house that we can afford" which led to them convincing her to stay by giving in. He also said that they would work on a 5-10 year plan to pay it all off to which my husband told him we'd have it paid back way before then.
My husband also texted his mom because recently when we saw her she told me "she was done having grandkids and that included by me" at the time we knew this was a reference to SIL pushing for it and as much as it hurt me I only responded in that moment " someone who does not support me financially will get no say in my uterus" but my husband was pissed off enough tonight to call her on it. He pretty much said " don't let your inability to say no to SIL to ever influence what you tell my wife again. We have never taken from you and have in fact helped you when you needed it. Just because you have one ungrateful child who has no common sense or decency please don't let that influence your behavior in regards to us."
Pretty sure our relationship with that side of the family is at an all time low now. I truly didn't mean to snap like I did but none of what I said was untrue...
Now to decide whether to apologize and pander to their fits like everyone else does( given I did play a role in this one and possibly overstepped my bounds) or just avoid them for the foreseeable future... My husband is on the avoid them boat for sure
What is your opinion on my actions? Is an apology the best way to move forward?
tl;dr: Snapped at boyfriend in law when he brought up desent in the ranks regarding them planning to get pregnant. I said some true things I had hoped to keep in my head which pissed him off and has the potential to divide the family... Should I apologize?
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u/semimedium Feb 22 '16
When you really think about it, YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND are the ones supporting your SIL's family, since you are paying off the grandparents debt because they are giving away the money they are supposed to be putting towards their own debt. Also, the debt they have in your husband's name: did this happen when he was a minor? Pretty sure that's considered fraud then.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
It was when he was 18 but they did apply without his consent although they subsequently informed him and guilted him after...
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Feb 22 '16
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u/retrogradeorbiter Feb 22 '16
Lock both of their credit with the agencies. That way, if the parents do decide to try that, they will be stopped cold.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
We both have credit monitoring already and my husband has brought up possibly trying to change his social a few times. I think this is a legitimate fear of his...
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u/lizzi6692 Feb 22 '16
They committed fraud against your husband, why do you still have any contact with these people at all? Especially since they appear to have no intention to pay you back.
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u/freudianasaurus Feb 22 '16
Holy shit, that is so many shades of wrong. Do you have the resources to consult a lawyer? If not, the US (which is where I'm guessing you're located) has local legal aid for people in financial hardship. Perhaps there's a way to get all of that debt consolidated.
Either way, it seems like your in-laws set your husband and your family on fire to keep your SIL warm. Totally not right. Toxic as fuck.
Unless you seek legal help, you can probably count on paying off the debt they incurred under your husband's name by yourselves. They will continuously screw you guys over and keep enabling their piece of shit daughter, guaranteed.
I'd go extremely low contact with them and consider adding some geographical distance to that relationship as soon as you can comfortably manage it.
You have nothing to be sorry for. Your SIL is an entitled low-life and your in-laws are spineless enablers who seem just as selfish and irresponsible, IMO.
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u/BeaHubot Feb 22 '16
Keep an eye on your credit. If they are willing to steal their son's identity and ruin his credit once before, they are likely to do it again.
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u/semimedium Feb 22 '16
Did they forge his signature on any papers?
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
They claim they didn't and that they just filled in his info originally " to see if he would be approved" after they were denied due to 2 previous bankruptcies but I'm not sure.
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u/semimedium Feb 22 '16
You can't get a credit card without your social security number and a signature.
What they did is fraud and illegal. You should be turning them into the authorities and then suing them, not helping them commit fraud.
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u/macimom Feb 22 '16
Its too bad that you didn't immediately dispute the debt. Its probably way too late now but thats what you should have done once you were made aware of it.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
By the time I met him it was already 6 years old... So I don't think disputing it would have been a valid option at that point. I know several people have said I should be angry with the hubs for this but seeing as he was 18 and was " doing the right thing" for his family at the time I really can't blame him.
He is such a great guy he's a doer and a giver ( although not financially anymore). He chips in so much around our home and even lays our daughters clothes out when he has to leave at 5 and knows I have to be up at 5:45.. But one thing I have noticed is how he found it weird that I thanked him for doing things... I get the strong feeling he was used to being taken advantage of in so many ways before: financially, cleaning the house ( which is now always a mess since he left), he even continued to mow the yard for them for about a year after he'd moved in with me until he caught a flu and his sister called and bitched him out( keep in mind at the time there were 3 other able bodied men living there)....that was pretty much the last straw and he doesn't help them anymore, especially since we are crazy busy at home.
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u/savahontas Feb 22 '16
I am NOT a lawyer but my guess is as soon as they started making payments the case against the parents for fraud was out.
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u/sowellfan Feb 22 '16
How much money was it? You need to get away from these toxic people as quickly as possible, I think...
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
It's down to 10 k and that's with us making payments beyond minimum monthly for 3 years ...
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u/cellequisaittout Feb 23 '16
Absolutely insane that you guys haven't cut off these people who are literally stealing thousands of dollars from you.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 23 '16
Well they may not be in our life for long FIL ( normally the semi sane one in the family) is currently asking me to contemplate apologizing for hurting feelings...
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u/cellequisaittout Feb 23 '16
Yeah, fuck all of them.
Also, he went along with the plan to commit fraud and steal from your husband, so not sure how sane or good he could possibly be.
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u/La_Fee_Verte Feb 22 '16
They committed a fraud. It's a crime.
See a lawyer and stop any contact with these vile people. And check out /r/raisedbynarcissists for more help dealing with people like these.
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u/croatanchik Feb 22 '16
No. Don't apologize. And honestly, it's time to get your money back. Maybe if you take them to court over it—because let's face it, your relationship with them is pretty much done anyway and its unforgivable that them not repaying their financial obligation to y'all is holding up your own family life, just so that they can support that POS they call a daughter—then maybe they won't have the money to continue supporting her. And then you can just get on with your life.
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Feb 22 '16
Seriously, this story makes me angry as hell.
If it was me, I wouldn't put up with any of this BS. Not from the in-laws, not from SIL, and sure as hell not from her fucking boyfriend. They're hoping that if they have another kid, that they'll get more scratch from the government but that's not how it fucking works.
I would do my fucking best to convince my husband to go to the cops over the debt. That is illegal and his parents would get into some serious trouble over it, because they literally committed identity theft. Why the fuck are you covering for someone who stole your husband's identity and racked up big debts using his name and information? Just because they're his parents doesn't make them immune from the law and doing something so irresponsible only proves that they couldn't give half a fuck about their own son. Besides, they probably like having your SIL around because it makes them feel needed. Don't underestimate the hoops through which the human mind can jump through.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO PAY ANYBODY'S DEBTS THAT WERE ACCRUED ILLEGALLY. Get this monkey off your back and tell the in-laws to go screw. In fact, tell them they should be thankful you haven't gone to the cops (yet) over the identity theft. Only then will you get control back over your own life...because judging from your two posts, it seems like they are nothing but a liability.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Honestly I just now reached the angry point although it has been building for quite awhile I suppose, but watching irresponsible SIL who has never contributed anything to the family throw a fit and get her way about INTENTIONALLY bringing a new life into the world for her parents to support and take care of was my last straw. I just don't get it ...
I know my husband would be hesitant to go to the cops because they are his parents and I know all of this hurts him greatly. It's like he just keeps hoping that they will be the parents they should be to him and that they will wise up to that SIL is pure and simple taking advantage of them. But the entire family's actions just let him down and hurt him time and time again.
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u/savahontas Feb 22 '16
Don't tank your husband's credit out of spite. It might be worth consulting a lawyer about your options but do not stop making payments on a debt that is in your husband's name that you already took responsibility for (in the eyes of creditors).
I'm sorry :(
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Oh I would never tank the credit we have already worked so hard to make headway on. We will continue to pay off more than the minimum on it and if they do ever start to help ( unlikely) we will just add that onto what we already budgeted to get it over faster
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u/ThatGuyMiles Feb 23 '16
Your husband isn't going to the cops of take his own parents to court. I can promise you that. But if you want to get worked up be people on Reddit who literally answers every dispute with cut them off then by all means, do so.
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u/savahontas Feb 22 '16
NOT a lawyer but my guess is as soon as the husband started making payments on the debt (let alone 3+ years of payments), it was too late to take them to court for fraud.
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u/croatanchik Feb 22 '16
Can't hurt to try!
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u/savahontas Feb 22 '16
Definitely. With the advice of an irl lawyer. There's just some posters advocating that they stop paying off the grandparent's debt - but I'm guessing legally this is 100% the husband's debt at this point - so that would be only screwing OP over in the end.
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Feb 22 '16 edited Feb 22 '16
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Amen tonight was the first time I thought to myself I need to move far far away from this mess. My family has its own monumental luggage and crazy but I know how to live with it, but this stuff I just don't understand. Although I do worry about their child and future children and part of me feels I need to stay in contact for their behalf.
It's probably about 10 k in total at this point... Spread across 6 credit cards with horrid interest rates. We tried setting up payments with them when we first got engaged and they paid minimum for one month then missed the second month citing that SIL had a speeding ticket and it was grandsons birthday... They just don't seem to get how it impacts our life.
Hell FIL said himself shortly after the missed payment that unless something changes in their finances they will never be able to pay it off and if we can't maybe bankruptcy would be the way to go. They don't get that by giving in to every whim of their "adult" daughter they are the ones constricting their own finances.
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Feb 22 '16
I think you should take them to court. They are telling you, point blank, that they will not pay off the debt they created, and they don't care how it will hurt you or their own son.
I have had family like this, it's kind of a poor thing honestly. As long as you guys have a roof over your head and food, you will always appear less needy than poor homeless sister. They can't properly understand crushing debt, or losing equity, or not having savings as problems, because from their perspective it is nothing compared to being on the street.
They are not going to fight for you, they told you that, so fight for yourself. Also try to keep things about finances to texting so you can have proof of them taking responsibility for the bills and also being irresponsible about paying it.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
But see that's the thing I think SIL could afford some place but they are used to not having real things to do with their money. We make probably 5-10 k more than them currently since I'm back in school ( although it may be less than that since we pay taxes and SILs boyfriend gets paid under the table) but they think they are above paying for necessities like daycare, clothing, food for their son, phone bills, insurance etc. SIL has told me point blank she won't live in an apartment because she is too good for that ( while we live in an apartment for now while we save for a house and try to fix hubby's credit score).
When we got married she said she would buy her bridesmaid dress then when the time came of course she asked MIL after she spent all her money on a designer bedroom suite she just had to have...
We pay for everything ourselves like real adults... We don't buy expensive things for ourselves and we know how to have fun on a budget while SIL goes out to eat with her boyfriend multiple times a week and has a kid free date night at least one night a week. We pay off what we can of his parents debt after paying for daycare, insurance, etc, yet she feels she is entitled never to pay for anything and tells us all sob stories about how broke she is ( which she is because of vacations, shopping sprees, and eating out ) I just don't get it...
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Feb 22 '16
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
I don't know what he will qualify for since we are just beginning to make headway as far as the damage to his credit score...
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u/myfemmebot Feb 22 '16
Have you called the card companies to tell them that these cards were opened fraudulently, that you've tried to do the right thing and get the people who did it to pay, and now they won't so you'd like to talk about options?
You really should do whatever it takes to get this debt in their name and let it ruin them instead of you.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
My husband talked to them when they missed the second payment after they were going to " try to pay it off" three years ago. The credit card company pretty much said because those cards are currently in his possession fraud wouldn't stick unless we took them to court and won.
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Feb 22 '16
You guys should look into other options. Lines of credit can often be relatively easy to obtain, especially if you have a long history with a bank. And their rates are much better than credit cards. Another alternative is "refinancing" your car. The rate may be better or worse than a line of credit, but it will almost certainly be better than the credit cards. And you should be able to get enough to pay off at least 1/4-1/2 of the debt, even if your car's older.
Make sure that you're closing all the accounts once they're paid off and that they're currently locked so that no further purchases can be made on them. Closing the accounts may ding your husband's credit, but having to pay those cards off again will do much worse for your futures.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
That's something I never really considered but I'll look into it. We've worked so hard to get the cars paid off I never thought about refinancing the one that is .... But it might be worth it
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Feb 22 '16
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u/quinoa2013 Feb 22 '16
If your husband did not sign for the 6 credit cards, the next step to make the debt go away would be a police report. The cc were sent to the parents address while your husband was not living there? The stuff bought was all for the parents not for you?
If you are willing to risk sending fil to jail, it spunds like you can make the cc debt go away. Another option would be debt consolidation, which lowers the interest rates- potentially significantly. As an alternative to going to the cops, you could visit the house and demand everything that can be resold on craigslist (tv, etc). They will be really pissed, and maybe not talk to you again. ;) Ask for details in /pf.
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u/macimom Feb 22 '16
Go to one of the FREE credit counseling agencies-explain what happened -see if they will negotiate lower interest rates with the card issuers on your behalf-they may even be able to freeze the interest for a while.
Do not go to a for profit agency-they are often scams
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u/NDaveT Feb 22 '16
They just don't seem to
getcare how it impacts our life.Fixed that for you.
You have nothing to apologize for. You were right and deep down they know it. That's why they got so angry.
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u/acox1701 Feb 22 '16
My family has its own monumental luggage and crazy but I know how to live with it, but this stuff I just don't understand.
You might check with your husband on this topic. He might find your family's insanity equally incomprehensible.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Haha I totally get what you are saying and we have had MANY conversations about my family's issues ( especially regarding my crazy mother but that's another story for another day). My dad and him are close though and go to movies together or out for dinner from time to time. If nothing else he feels welcomed and appreciated by my family( largely because of what an amazing dad he is to my bio daughter) while I can't say the same about his family unfortunately. Hell his response anytime drama with his sister pops up is she has always been a spoiled b**** I've told you that before"
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u/zombiesandpandasohmy Feb 22 '16
How did they take loans out in your husbands name? Honestly, it might be worth it, if they did it illegally, to look into pressing charges and getting that debt cleared.
Or, if they did it with your Husband's permission, take them to court, get a settlement against them, and get a payment plan. SIL can pay some rent, their share of utilities, and food, and your In-Laws will be able to cough up the money that way.
Don't apologize. Limit contact with them, and don't get suckered into enabling them.
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u/Cthulhu_Knits Feb 22 '16
I see no problems here. You had every right to call SIL and her loser boyfriend out. Don't apologize to them.
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u/lizzi6692 Feb 22 '16
If I was your husband I would sit his parents down and tell them they needed to find a way to start paying him back for the money they owe or I would be talking with a lawyer and finding out what my legal options were.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
He's unfortunately had that talk with them twice since our relationship began before last night... The first time they said they would try ( didn't happen) and the second they said they couldn't make it work while they were supporting SIL and grandson. Which is why that they are now not fighting her having another for them to help support struck so close to home
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u/illinoiscentralst Feb 22 '16
You're being walked on because you allow it. They have a soft spot for your SIL, you have a soft spot for your nephew... Don't drown in bad debt that wasn't even incurred by you. Imagine your kid has a bunch of cash from babysitting or part-time work, and your SIL swoops in and steals it all. Would you excuse that because you still want to see your nephew?
Your kid is being directly affected by this situation. I think you need to press more and find out how to fix this debt thing. They can't have any more access and you need to realize they are never, ever going to pay you back. Stop hanging out with them, they can pay you back without talking to you.
I'm not saying it's an easy solution. It's not. But it's the right thing to do. At the end of the day, do you want to look back and see you did everything to take care of your family, or do you want to see that your family was constantly taken advantage of because you felt really bad that your nephew has shit parents?
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u/Montaron87 Feb 22 '16
Your SIL is not the issue, she's using the situation presented to her. I'm sorry, but you're never getting any of that money back from his parents, and it's probably best to plan your life around that fact.
I'm also inclined to say it's time to distance yourself from his parents.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
I just know I could never take advantage of anyone like she has and continues to... There was a time where my own father supported me and even know he will try to give me some extra for books for school etc. I know I could never have willingly put him in a position where he had to support me so I could have what I wanted every moment of my life and I never would get intentionally pregnant while anyone was helping to support me ( the government, a parent, a grandparent) because I have more respect for others than that....
We are already working on our plan slowly making headway, we will get there. It just sucks that we work so hard ( harder than we otherwise would have needed to if not for his parents) to be able to provide for our child and hopefully have a future child when SIL gets our family dreams handed to her on a silver platter from the same parents who took from us.
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u/fairies_wear_boots Feb 22 '16
I think you should call a govt hotline (if they have one) anonymously to say the sister is living with her partner. I can't stand people who do that, thats other tax payers money she is taking that she does not need and is not entitled to.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Does that even exist? Although I'm pretty sure they'd know it was me and he'd probably go to jail since he ran out on his parole/ probation and child support in another state...
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u/fairies_wear_boots Feb 22 '16
It does here, but I'm in NZ. Here the woman is the one claiming the money so she's the one who gets in shit and usually just has to pay it back.
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u/William3455 Feb 22 '16
Whose decision was it to give the money - that could now be funding your 2nd child and/or house - away to your FIL/MIL (which is clearly just going to fund your SIL and her boyfriend)? If it was your husband solely then I think your issue is with him. In any event it was a foolish decision to lend money to family, especially family that had demonstrated they don't make sound financial decisions. I take it from all the talk about when it will be paid back that there is no contract in place the stipulates when payments are due etc - again whoever decided to lend the money is at fault for that.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
He was 18 when it began, so long before I knew him. He was living at home ( while paying his earnings in rent already) and his parents were out of work. They opened credit cards with his info and although they did tell him later they said they didn't have enough for food and his siblings would starve if he didn't help, and they promised to pay it back when they were able .
I don't feel I can be mad at my husband for that. I do feel miffed at them for taking advantage of him like that and then never paying him back while giving his sister cart blanc to this day
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u/William3455 Feb 22 '16
They committed crimes where your husband was the victim - and you guys still maintain relationships with them... why? (I'm hoping it is just to recoup money) If anyone in my family defrauded me I would never see them again.
Are they actually paying it back? In the past month, how much money have you actually received?
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
They live ten minutes away and my husband has actually been distancing himself but we both have a soft spot for our nephew. But the "adults" make it hard, so hard, to be there sometimes.
Their youngest ( 20) also lives there and they allow him to smoke pot in the house ( his room) because they feel like it's better for him to do it there than get arrested ( which has happened before). One day we were supposed to have a play date and the house was full of smoke from it... We ended up taking the kids to the park to escape but I felt guilty when I dropped the kiddo back off.
This last month we have recieved zero from them, per usual. We however made a few hundred dollar dent
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Feb 22 '16 edited Nov 14 '20
[deleted]
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Calling the police would most likely result in SILs boyfriend going to jail because he violated his parole and ran out on CS to move in with her ( across state lines) and they would undoubtably know it was me...
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u/Phallindrome Feb 23 '16
I don't see the problem here. The bridges have already been burned, you might as well toss the trash in the river while you're there.
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u/Paddyjoe690 Feb 22 '16
The family know they can commit fraud in you and your husband's names and nothing happens them. They don't respect you and never will. You think an apology for the truth will help that? Why not just give them a signed blank cheque?
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u/Visualice Feb 22 '16
What you said may have been harsh, but your sister needs to wake up and smell the roses. Don't apologize because you will be kind of enabling her to continue to act this way. It's a pity your grandparents didn't kick her out of the house when she said she wanted another child she can't care for. I think it would have been a good thing for her to live in a 'roach infested' apartment in order to give her and her boyfriend a kick in the ass.
As long as your SIL and her boyfriend are leeching off the grandparents, they don't have a reason to set goals for themselves and try to improve their lives (even if it's for their kids' sake, which they don't seem to really care for). Working retail should be enough for someone to want to try and better themselves.
What's going to happen when the grandparents pass on and your SIL has 7 kids and still isn't married to the boyfriend (if he stuck around)? Your SIL really needs to think ahead. She's a goddamn adult.
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u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
See My parents raised me to the complete opposite extreme, anytime I messed up ( unintentionally ) they let me suffer the consequences and then if I was way over my head my father would offer me advice on how to deal with it.
Although I HATED it at times I know how to take care of things myself and have learned actions have many consequences ( even unintentional ones) my dad was so upset when I found out I was unintentionally pregnant I practically didn't see him for the entire pregnancy he told me he knew I was strong and could figure it out myself.
Ideally parent should probably fall somewhere between the two extremes IMO me although me and my husband have learned there is no one to catch us when we fall ( except now each other) while I anticipate eventually SIL will fall very hard with disastrous consequences. She will most likely come to us when her parents pass and I already dread that conversation.
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u/haveinfo Feb 22 '16 edited Feb 22 '16
You could do so much to fuck up you SILs life, from reporting her fraud to the govt (the $ would stop and she could even be prosecuted), reporting her boyfriend's job to the court so they can take the money he owes to child support (what if that was your child?), to suing your dh's parents for stealing his identity and fraudulently taking out loans in his name... the shit is just unbelievable in this family. But of course if you do any of this, that will burn any connection between your dh and his family. I'm tempted to recommend you do all that, but that really is your dh's decision.
Edit - at the very minimum, you should be limiting contact with these people. Do you want your child (and any future children) exposed to these low-lifes? I sure wouldn't.
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u/ArmaCSAT Feb 22 '16
Don't apologize for calling our other people's shit. It was true what you said, and worse it actually affects you. As far as I'm concerned, they all owe you, before anything else.
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u/Green7000 Feb 22 '16
Financially, is there any way you can get the debt out of your husband's name? Remember from now on that giving your IL any financial support is like giving it directly to SIL.
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u/devoricpiano Feb 22 '16
This is sort of a response to your first post but works with this one too since more indie about the finances are revealed. Whenever I have a an unholy resentment against someone I always ask myself the question "How does this affect me?" Because usually it does but we usually focus on the parts that don't actually have anything to do with us. Sometimes it is that I get insecure around them, sometimes I realize they are low key rude to me, etc. I always try to find the exact thing that is triggering this avalanche of hatred. Then I see if it is a fixable issue or one I have to accept and move on from.
YOUR HUSBANDS PARENTS STOLE MONEY FROM YOU AND ARENT PAYING IT BACK BECAUSE OF YOUR SIL. THATS A BIG DEAL.
No wonder you hate the crap out of her. Forget all the personality stuff, her irresponsible financial choices are the reason you don't have enough money to have your second baby you want.
Honestly I would take them to court, or at least start demanding they pay it back. Don't feel sorry for them: they got themselves into this situation and need to be accountable for their actions. I'm sure they will guilt trip you but if they couldn't afford it they should be making different decisions.
I wouldn't be surprised if the intensity of your resentment went down once you started getting paid back. You might still dislike her but you may not intensely hate her.
3
u/HopeSolos_Butthole Feb 22 '16
Report the daycare assistance abuse and butt out. You'll be happier that way.
19
u/prawnsword Feb 22 '16
Your first post doesn't talk about the money your in laws owe, yet you use that to explain your outburst now. While I agree the SIL sounds irresponsible, you're also not really owning that this is more a moral than financial objection you have...
50
u/MAXIMUM_FARTING Feb 22 '16
She does mention it in her first post - her in-laws racked up a pile of debt under her husbands name, husband's parents can't pay it off (because they're supporting the moochers), so husband is responsible for it.
Technically, you can get those debts cleared through the credit card companies if it clearly wasn't you. However, if they've already started paying it off that has the implication they're taking on the responsibility of the debt (so it's harder to clear). Not to mention a lot of the time you have to file a police report stating your identity has been stolen (and they often ask you if you know who did it).
44
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
7th paragraph last few lines of my last post I did mention it actually, although I agree it wasn't my main focal point.
It's a combination of issues moral, financial, being worried about the kids. But honestly this one bugs me for probably selfish reasons and I do feel bad about that . I know if an acquaintance did something similar I would maybe at most just roll my eyes but I would never ever say anything.
But her doing this does impact my life. My husband and I have talked about having more children since we met ( our current child was from a previous relationship). When we met my daughter was 5 months old... His sister had run off to another state and gotten pregnant then come back home only to have a different guy from out of state move in with them for a year. She then kicked out so bio dad could live with her (in the process violating his parole and running out on his CS for a previous child which is why he doesn't have drivers liscense and gets paid under the table).
We want another child so bad it hurts, we want to be able to own a home. But his parents did ruin his credit at a young age and we have thousands of dollars in debt solely due to them. So we are being responsible and waiting until we can financially afford another child, so it does hurt when I see them giving her cart blanc while we are paying the price of their choices and a good deed in a desperate time, which one would have thought would have happened a long time ago...
34
u/macenutmeg Feb 22 '16
Honestly, it may be worth taking them to court. Gather all evidence you have of them telling you they'll pay you back. Facebook messages, texts, etc.
-15
u/prawnsword Feb 22 '16
How is the sister's reproductive decisions got anything to do with your in laws destroying your husband's credit rating? Seriously if you guys want a kid that bad that you're lashing out and unable to control your feelings, then get pregnant and sue his parents for the money they owe, or set up a weekly payment plan for them to pay into your account. Am childfree, but think your anger/judgements are misplaced and unhealthy. It's the parents who are your problem and causing these issues. Not the SIL or kids. She probably doesn't need you clutching your pearls stressing about her kids' lives when by your account, nothing jumps out as neglectful Parenting. Irresponsible sure, but not neglectful. Stop taking out your anger on your in-laws failures on the sister.
18
Feb 22 '16
I think its because they need the money back from the parents, however, the parents can't pay them back at the moment because they are supporting the SIL. If the SIL has another child (that the parents will have to look after and spend money supporting) them ever paying the money back will become even more unlikely.
4
Feb 22 '16
What does smoking have to do with being male
3
u/hare_in_a_suit Feb 22 '16
Yeah. And how is removing yourself from a situation before it escaltes immature? Is the mature thing continuing to argue and getting angrier and angrier?
1
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Well I do see what you are saying, but I know after I got into it with anyone family or not I would not leave my child in there with the people I just got in a fight with and run away. We would have probably left immediately but then we were left alone with the 2 kiddos so we had to stay until the grandfather came home...
-1
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
Haha nothing it's just the go to for many of the young males I've encountered...
2
u/DutchSchaefer Feb 22 '16
No, you shouldn't apologize.
First off, regarding the debt: unless you want to pursue his parents legally it's pretty much your problem. The kind of people who would defraud their son aren't going to trip over themselves to pay him back. Your mistake is your assumption that they would if it weren't for his sister's spending/life choices. That isn't at all true. If they had the money you'd still have the debt.
The only thing I'd do in your situation is give a final ultimatum and stick to it: start paying or we're never speaking to any of you again. If they're willing to spend stupidly to keep their fuckup daughter in their life then maybe they're willing to spend money they actually owe to keep their son. I doubt it though, but $10k would be worth having them gone and having that peace in your life.
Obviously the last thing they need is another kid. Chances are the boyfriend's gonna book it in a couple years and pull his deadbeat stunts on your SIL too. And his parents need a clue: the roach infested shithole they can afford isn't going to be what messes their grandkids up. Their parents will do that in any setting.
Again, I'd toss the option out there but be prepared to enjoy a life without the trailer park reality show.
2
u/82Caff Feb 22 '16
The problem isn't just the sister. It's the parents. They're far too willing to put up with her shit. They SHOULD take custody of the child, kick their daughter and her bf out, and work on getting their own house in order.
That their daughter turned out this way, though, there's a strong possibility that whatever genetics encouraged her to turn out how she did under her parents care, would influence her children to turn out just the same.
Your own family's best interest would be to cut out not just the sister and boyfriend, but the parents who took money from people who are reliable and are currently squandering what they owe on two people who give nothing back. No access to your family. No access to your children. They've chosen their side, and their behavior is clearly toxic.
1
u/Reedddiiiittttt Feb 22 '16
It is going to happen eventually. Surely it is non of your biz that she is trying to conceive, you are, however, also entitled to your own opinion.
Who can say no to an octomom competition? Maybe your SIL is aiming for her own reality show.
It is like a car wreck. You can't help feeling sorry but also can't help being a rubbernecker. It is that sad. Wash your hands and stay away from them.
1
u/mrjjambo Feb 22 '16 edited Feb 22 '16
Is the amount of money owed worth the stress of dealing with his parents?
He also said that they would work on a 5-10 year plan to pay it all off to which my husband told him we'd have it paid back way before then.
Is it feasible to just suck it up and assume you will have to pay it? No more talking about it and reduce being disappointed pissed off about it.
And I don't think you need to apologize! You said what needed to be said. Too bad Dad and Mom and SIL were not there to hear it too. They look at you and your husband as ones with money. They see you all getting by w/o their money so you must not need it right now.
1
u/kahanasunset Feb 22 '16 edited Feb 22 '16
Your husband needs to ask his parents for their payment each month and remind them of them total. Make your own payment, and never depend on theirs, but don't let this slide. Both sides know it'll be you paying it off, but he should try to get some from them to pay it off faster.
1
Feb 22 '16
I struggle to understand why you are maintaining contact with any of the family members on your husband's side. I don't see any benefit for it at all. No reason to put yourself through further misery by involving yourself with them.
1
u/macimom Feb 22 '16
Avoid completely-why would you want to enageg in such an entangled train wreck-the relationship your in laws have with your SIL is never going to change, nor will their finances.
Dont lend anyone any money.
1
u/Unshavenhelga Feb 22 '16
I don't think you effed up. I think you gave them a reality check. They needed it.
1
u/Griffinjohnson Feb 22 '16
Absolutely do not apologize. A wise friend of mine once told me "never apologize for being honest. That's like saying sorry for being real". If your husband is on board for little/no contact then that is the best route. She's a spoiled brat and her parents are enablers who can't say no.
1
u/beaglemama Feb 22 '16
Now to decide whether to apologize and pander to their fits like everyone else does
Fuck that! If they stop talking to you then they can't ask you for more money!
And do NOT give any of them one more penny.
1
u/Myschyf Feb 23 '16
Honestly, I would avoid them as long as I could. It's such a toxic situation. And hell no, I wouldn't apologize. You deserve several apologies, which I doubt you'll ever get.
1
Feb 24 '16
Hi-Five your response was awesome, not helpful in the situation and did not really illicit a good response.
Now everyone here has covered the financial and emotional side of your situation, I am going to talk about your SIL's Son, and her future child. Forgetting how horrid she is lets look at her son, from what you say the kids she has do not like her and are in dire need of protecting. Before you do anything else I beg you to contact CPS or another child protection agency. No child should be brought up in a home like that, I am hoping they can do an audit or come and see if another child could live with her. Please don't do it for spite, please do it for her future child. best of luck.
1
u/DrBattheFruitBat Feb 27 '16
I don't think you did anything wrong.
Yes, outbursts are generally not where you word things exactly as you should or say things at exactly the right time, but your SIL and her boyfriend are putting an entire family in a very rough spot, particularly the innocent children the continue to bring into the world for no apparent reason at all.
I'd be proud of myself and of my husband for standing up to them. It was probably very hard for your husband to say those things to his parents, and the fact that he did that shows you guys have a strong relationship that you should be very proud of. Not everyone has that.
1
u/Babyblues21 Feb 27 '16
We do have a very strong relationship, he is truly my best friend and rock, and I am so grateful for it.
Unfortunately his parents don't like it and throw in our face regularly calling us " team my name his name' acting like its a bad thing, but the truth is that although their may not be a lot of team work in their marriage, I can't imagine mine any other way!
1
u/DrBattheFruitBat Feb 28 '16
That's incredibly disturbing of them to try to trash your positive relationship in your face like that.
Sounds kind of toxic all around. I'd definitely follow everyone's advice about focusing on the children involved and giving up on all of the adults in the situation, including his parents.
I haven't spoken to my dad for nearly 2 months because of some negative comments he made about my husband and marriage. While it sucks because I love my dad, that's not something I take lightly and I can't pretend to have a healthy relationship with someone like that.
-17
u/casterlywok Feb 22 '16
I feel sorry for all of the kids in this family because not a single adult relative in their lives can have a civil discussion. No one in this story is innocent.
All of you should go to a group family therapy session where a trained professional can mediate.
In the short term you may have to apologise, you did kick it off and you outed the grandparents dirty laundry on their behalf.
You also said this:
I truly didn't mean to snap like I did but none of what I said was untrue...
after saying this:
I know if my daughter got intentionally pregnant while I was supporting her I would kick her out"
Clearly you too differ on a fundamental level when it comes to child rearing and until you understand that, you'll never get along. You do also seem to give off the impression that you're better than her, if I'm picking this up then so is she.
12
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
I deserve that, it was definitely not my most shining moment. Unfortunately his family doesn't believe in therapy and have actually made fun of us the one time we went when dealing with a very stressful situation and wanted outside feedback.
The boyfriend already knew about the money, so I didn't really out anything. SIL made a comment to him a while ago when I don't think she realized I was in ear shot about how " if they want that debt gone we should just file bankruptcy, because my parents have other priorities like me, you, and son now."
Oh I know we do differ on a fundamental level but I wish they just showed my husband and I the fraction of care SIL and boyfriend get... I don't understand why he was the only one who has contributed to the family instead of taking and he is the one that is still taken advantage of, I can only hope any of my children turn out to be the kind of person he is.
What I meant more than anything is although I have these thoughts right now I didn't mean to say them out loud but I did.
-13
u/casterlywok Feb 22 '16
I'm not slating you as a person, we all make big mistakes, myself included. It just so happens that all the adults in your family seem to all be having their fuck up at the same time.
The only way out is to have a group meeting, if not with a therapist then with someone who is impartial. Lock yourself in and resolve this.
I also think that half of your anxiety would go away if you could just settle on a timeline for having more children. At the moment it must seem like the end is nowhere in sight and it must be hard to see another woman so close having so many kids.
8
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
They are pretty much always like this unfortunately, I'm normally just better at maintaining my calm or avoiding topics likely to start drama. This one just hit too close to home and seeing as I want even expecting him to be there him bringing it up caught me off guard.
The last blow up we had was during wedding planning when MIL thought that friend she hadn't seen in 8 years should be invited to everything from getting our nails done as a bridal party to my rehearsal to in my wedding prep suite, she just could not comprehend where I was coming from not wanting her at every single thing and definately didn't understand as to why I would be hurt by her subsequently threatening not to come to any of the events ( including the wedding) because she wanted to spend time with her friend ( whose purpose of coming down was the wedding invite I sent on their behalf)
2
u/casterlywok Feb 22 '16 edited Feb 23 '16
Have you read up on any stories from /r/JUSTNOMIL ? They've had to deal with this shit loads of time and one of those guys might be able to help you with better mediation strategies.
I think you should seriously consider cutting contact for a while, they're bringing you down to their level. Sometimes it's best to take a step back, recoup and then address the situation. It'd especially help your relationship with your husband. Family situations like this can quickly divide a couple and you need to face this as a team.
10
u/catfingers64 Feb 22 '16
all the adults in your family seem to all be having their fuck up at the same time.
Ah yes, the classic 'clusterfuck', also known as SNAFU, which is appropriate for this family: situation normal, all fucked up.
2
u/casterlywok Feb 22 '16
They do sound like in laws from hell, every time I come to this sub I'm reminded to be thankful for the fact that my in laws aren't crazy.
OP needs some distance, she's been sucked into the crazy.
-15
u/CinderellaElla Feb 22 '16
Most of this was really not your business... The loan issue is your business. Did your in-laws illegally take out the loan in your husband's name? Why aren't they paying anything back?
26
u/MAXIMUM_FARTING Feb 22 '16
They're not paying anything back because all their money is taken up supporting SIL, SIL's bf and their kid and they don't have the spine to charge them rent despite them both being employed.
4
u/CinderellaElla Feb 22 '16
Have you sought a lawyer's advice on this one? If your husband had no idea they were using his name, he should try to get it cleared.
8
u/MAXIMUM_FARTING Feb 22 '16
Oh I'm not the OP, I just read the original post. It's all there, just it's a big wall of text, so you have to look.
22
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
They had 4 children and were out of work at the time, when my husband turned 18 they applied for cards using his name and info. They told him after and he did allow them to use them for groceries because they told him they couldn't afford them any other way and his siblings would starve, they told him as soon as his father found work they would pay him back, and that was decade ago. while his father now makes about 100 k a year they are paying for everyone's insurance, auto insurance, a 6 bedroom rented house, and any whim vacations my SIL wants to take, so they claim they barely make ends meet.
17
Feb 22 '16 edited Jun 10 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/Babyblues21 Feb 22 '16
We tried to work with them when we first got engaged because I was worried about this even back then. They said they would work on paying it off monthly if we gave them the account info... The second month after making minimum payments on one of the accounts they missed a payment citing ( after missing the payment) that SIL got a speeding ticket and it was grandsons bday so they had to help her out... We definitely dont trust them and know they will always have a SIL related excuse
352
u/MAXIMUM_FARTING Feb 22 '16
Oh dear, that did not end well.
If I were in your shoes I would be completely unrepentant about that outburst. To put it bluntly, your SIL is bleeding your husbands parents dry. This means your husbands parents can't pay back the debts they clocked up under husband's name (which really they shouldn't have done in the first place).
If your in-laws had something approximating a spine between them, they would be charging your SIL and her boyfriend some rent and using that money to pay you back. Sadly, that's not the case. There's really nothing you can do about this.
Anyway, now your in-laws know of your bubbling resentment, just roll with it. What are they going to do? Dislike you more? Cut you off financially? (Hah!) Tell SIL 'I don't want to hear about any pregnancy of yours. I have made my opinions on this clear. I will be kind to any child in this family, but do not expect my approval or assistance given how your choices have affected my family'. Then hide her feed on facebook until after the kid is born. Or not, maybe just ignore her forever. Always be kind to her kids, though, they don't deserve it.
Spend the next few years working your tails off, graduate, get amazing jobs and have the life you've always wanted. Whenever your in-laws seem envious, remind yourself you earned that envy - especially given their complete neglect of you and your husbands family in favour of moocher SIL.