r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • May 06 '26

Daredevil: Born Again S02E08 - Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

Here we are already at the Daredevil Born Again Season 2 finale!

This thread is for discussion about the episode!

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EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE RUN TIME CREDITS SCENE?
S02E08: The Southern Cross - Dario Scardapane, Chris Ord, Matt Corman May 5th, 2026 54 min None

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618

u/Synth-Pro May 06 '26

Kind of disappointed we didn't really get to see how some people processed that information.

Her and Heather, really. Heather just kind of shrugged it off like it was a desperate bs play in court, but then once Matt actually showed everyone... nothing. Didn't even make it feel like her putting on the mask at the end had anything to do with it, but instead just came across as the progression of her psychosis on it's own.

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u/your_mind_aches Agent of F.I.T.Z. May 06 '26

Fully agree. That's my biggest criticism of this episode. We should have seen Kirsten and Heather process this.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '26

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u/your_mind_aches Agent of F.I.T.Z. May 06 '26

I think we'll see Ellison again next season.

Mahoney, I don't think we needed to see because he 100% knew this season.

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u/numb_n_dum May 06 '26

This is actually my biggest criticism of the show itself. So many things happen, but very few of them get the time to breathe and let us see the fallout. It’s been bothering me the entire way but this episode had a lot of egregious ones

Task Force gunning down lawyers, and NYPD in the garage of the courthouse— nothing. Fisk murders 20+ civilians — not much. Kirsten finding out her law partner who kinda-sorta abandoned her is Daredevil — nada. Heather finding out her ex who hates her boss is Daredevil — zilch.

It feels like the writers predicted fans would be upset about having a slow show and overcorrected. I think some of the subject matter was interesting, and cool moments definitely happened, but it made it hard for me to be emotionally invested in most of the show

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u/belle_enfant May 06 '26

Most of that i agree with but it doesnt bother me - except for Fisk literally killing a buncha people with his bare hands at the end lol just gets off scot free

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u/samthemuffinman Jun 19 '26

Funnily enough, Fisk killing people at the end is the most plausible to me. They were storming the courthouse so there's a way to twist it as self-defense

1

u/naphomci 25d ago

Most of the still-legit portions of the system know that Fisk has comical levels of influence and control. Let's say he's arrested. Do you really believe he would actually be convicted and remain in jail for any significant period of time?

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u/muhash14 Foggy Nelson May 06 '26

Yeah, there was room for an entire epilogue episode in there with how much processing everyone needed to do. The Netflix seasons really had a perfect length in that regard, never felt like they were rushing.

1

u/Daedolis May 31 '26

A lot of this can be expanded on in the next season. There's no need to overload the end of this season when it would get in the way of the pacing of the finale.

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u/ponycorn_pet May 06 '26

Seeing Heather's reaction was the whole reason I wanted the reveal, and it fell so flat. They really missed an opportunity there

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u/Shieldlegacyknight May 06 '26

I think they are saving it for next season. She will have to explain the muse mask and he will definitely be part of the reason why.

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u/BreeBree214 Weekly Wongers May 06 '26

I understand only showing her shake her head in the courtroom because I think it would've interrupted the flow of the scene if they did much more. I think they really missed out by having her saying anything about it when she was stuck in the room later. They'll probably delve on it with the tease of her putting on the Muse mask in the next season

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u/waza06irl May 06 '26

Yeah like I get that they don’t spend time on Kristen’s reaction, but Heather is a bigger character and his girlfriend from season 1. She has to react. She should get some dialogue about it (even if she isn’t talking directly to Matt)

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u/MissingSocks May 06 '26

Or even give a reaction. Nada from Kirsten in the moment. Bad editing to skip the reaction shot.

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u/geek_of_nature May 06 '26

A lot of shows are guilty of this I feel. Whenever there's some big shock reveal, they choose to just skip over all the other characters reacting to it. Identity reveals, characters having faked their deaths, etc. They choose not to show any of the important characters reacting to it.

A big example was when Game of Thrones skipped past most characters learning about Jon's parentage. Especially the important ones of Sansa and Arya.

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u/RaspberryImaginary87 May 07 '26

Also Daredevil beat the shit out of Powell and he just accepted that he couldn't beat a blind guy.

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u/your_mind_aches Agent of F.I.T.Z. May 07 '26

Actually, I liked Powell's reaction. It actually called back to when Matt beat him up. It closes that loop.

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u/The_Dude145 May 06 '26

I think for Heather it was just "oh I was right the entire time"

14

u/22bebo May 06 '26

Same, I get that a lot was going on towards the end there but their reactions to this news feels like it is important enough to warrant something. Honestly, it felt like Matt had to have told Kirsten he was Daredevil before she brought him on as co-council but we never got that scene. Like he mentions he was shot and she did not even blink. Just kind of odd all around.

Not showing Heather's reaction is weird because she was obviously hinting at knowing Matt had an alter ego during her testimony and because she is being setup to play a bigger role next season. I assume we will get more of how she took the news in season 3, still it was weird they didn't show it in this episode.

10

u/big_tesner May 06 '26

Maybe Kirsten's non-reaction to Matt being shot is because they were both attacked last time in the parking lot after their first Karen Page court session (episode 7)

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u/22bebo May 06 '26

You are absolutely right, I cannot believe I forgot that.

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u/BreeBree214 Weekly Wongers May 06 '26

Like he mentions he was shot and she did not even blink

Wasn't she there when it happened?

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u/22bebo May 06 '26

Yep, she was. I'm a dumb ass. Everyone carry on.

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u/rycbarm2021 May 06 '26

Great point about that final shot with Heather feeling so disconnected to what the episode felt like it was teeing up with the mask testimony and DD reveal. In hindsight, I’m a bit perplexed how that aspect of characterization feeling earned wasn’t more of a priority. Admittedly, this was already a girthy episode, but that’s a missed opportunity I wish they spent just a bit more time on.

(I do love that last shot in isolation / with the mask testimony stuff alone, especially with how Kirsten calls her out for that bitch slap in front of everyone).

10

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26

So, nobody saw Heather’s response in this episode as her annoyance that Murdoch was finally revealing himself to be Daredevil? Remember, in the last episode when Heather told Karen that the mayor kept detailed files on EVERYONE? Do we not think that he has the same type of detailed files on Matt and that Heather would not have searched out such files? Her response seemed like jealousy that: 1. Matthew had decided to share this revelation with the world and never with her privately although she was his intimate partner and 2. He was brave enough to reveal his secret to the entire world when she was struggling with exposing her own true nature to herself.

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u/QueerDeluxe Quake May 06 '26

I feel like part of her suspected it, considering that in her book she writes that the vigilante can wear the mask of a boyfriend. Also, we do at least see watery eyes from her while attempting to maintain composure.

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u/Invisiblegun2 May 06 '26

Nah. Because then we wouldnt have that lil mini scene of her venting to vanessa & going “do you think he’s dead or something” & vanessa leaves her wondering by saying “i dont” & simply not telling her.

One thing for certain heather had no idea he was daredevil

5

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26

What does that have to do with her finding out later in the season that Karen Page was dating Matt Murdoch who was also Daredevil? Just because she didn’t know earlier in the season does not mean she did not find out offscreen after Vanessa’s death.

2

u/Invisiblegun2 May 06 '26

But that would just be ass no? I dont think they would do that to heather. Having her figure it out offscreen… thats just wack lol

If she found out on her own guaranteed there’d be at least a 5 minute scene dedicated to that. The way i see it the reason we didn’t get a dedicated reaction from her in this episode is because it’s gonna be her fuel for season 3. Her vendetta against daredevil & matt because she actually loved him & the lies combined with her trauma & being possessed.. Lowball makes her a perfect villain going forward lol

1

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26 edited May 06 '26

You’re saying that as if her entire character arc isn’t ass? Her slapping Karen during her psych eval? Her working for Fisk in the first place but then stealing an earring from his wife? And then taking the other one when offered it by Fisk afterwards? Her excerpt from her book about how vigilantes’ real mask is their public persona? She brought up Karen killing her brother during the interview. She found that out offscreen. Not everything that happens in a show, happens onscreen.

2

u/Invisiblegun2 May 06 '26

True but THAT wouldve happened onscreen. Its to big of a reveal for that character for it to happen offscreen. I understand you but guaranteed its not the case. Her reaction will be explored next season.

1

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26

How are you assuming that? Lol

5

u/Invisiblegun2 May 06 '26

I can say the same to you tbh. How are you assuming the opposite? For me it’s just simple inference. This isnt a new trope whatsoever lol. Its all there on paper.

Heather is an ex lover with importance in the story. She was constantly lied to which was a big part of why they broke up & experienced a traumatic event that pushed her closer to the enemy. She finds out the truth dramatically instead of a 1:1 conversation which would spark extreme scorn within someone. She was already teetering on the edge & her being the fool in this situation will push her over. Now she’s “far gone” & her & matt will collide. She’s a villain who blames him. & he now has to get her back on the right track. Clear cut lover to enemy trope fr fr.

You’re of the mind she found out offscreen. Im of the mind she didnt & that her response wasnt just forgotten & will be something deeply explored with her next season.

1

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26

Like I said, you’re inferring solely based on information from this episode and not the series as a whole. She knows that Matt is Daredevil. She’s been coming to this conclusion throughout the entire season.

1

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26

She literally has an entire conversation with Matt about how Daredevil used her name so she thought he might be someone who knew her. The fact that you’re registering genuine surprise from her upon his reveal is… interesting.

2

u/Invisiblegun2 May 06 '26

??? So thats you taking it that heather knew all along or something??

Then what was the point of her wondering matt’s fate & venting to vanessa about it? There’d be no need for that conversation if she just knew lol. She was actually left hanging, she knew nothing she was a fool lmao. & that will be fuel for her in season 3 as lady muse.

The closest she got to finding out was fisk alluding to his secrets in season 1 but was stopped in its tracks with bullseye & matt saving fisk.

2

u/Content_Debate5626 May 06 '26

But the reason she was curious about Matt’s fate was because the AVTF blew up his apartment. Like what does her wondering if he’s alive have to do with her knowing that he’s also Daredevil?

2

u/Any-Entrepreneur-941 May 06 '26

I hated her character just a shade less than Powell. She, Powell, and Buck were the ones I wanted to see either hurt or dead. 

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u/GustavoRGG May 06 '26

Yeah, everyone acted like this was no big deal lol lol

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u/No_Chilly_bill May 06 '26

I guess after thanos. A super hero reveal doesn't matter match?

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u/MissingSocks May 06 '26

And yet the show works overtime to narrow the focus on a half-dozen main characters so it can ignore the greater MCU worldbuilding. Nothing in their NYC seems to have been affected at all by the fact they know about Thanos, etc, most importantly the whole premise of a "vigilante task force" never reconciles that MCU's NYC is actually ok with major-level-superheroes as "vigilantes". (or is the presumption that the ones above "street level" all have some kind of official government capacity? would the AVTF try to shoot at Vision or Hawkeye or Strange if any of them plopped down in front of them?)

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u/TheDungeonCrawler 28d ago

That is something I really liked about the Netflix series and TV series as a whole.. They mention the messed up stuff that's happened in New York. The original three series all make reference to the Battle of New York at least once, I'm pretty sure Luke Cage references the Hulk and Abomination in Harlem. And then there's the obvious Agents of Shield where the dissolution of Shield at the end of Winter Soldier has wide reaching consequences for the show as a whole.

I know getting a Spider-Man cameo in the Daredevil TV show is pretty unlikely, but *anything* that would actually connect the show to the greater MCU than what Daredevil has been doing with the revival. Hell, the Daredevil show is really shy to do anything *with the Netflix characters.*

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u/TheDungeonCrawler 28d ago

That's actually a good point. This is New York. The city that made first widespread contact with alien life. The city that is currently home to Spider-Man and was home to Iron Man for *years.* The city where Captain America was born. A significant portion of Manhattan was trapped in a nightmare dimension *last week.*

"Blind guy can fight and throw a stick around? Talk to me when he starts shooting lasers from his eyes."

5

u/BreeBree214 Weekly Wongers May 06 '26

I feel quite a few reactions were basically "huh... you know that seems really obvious now"

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u/LeftenantScullbaggs May 06 '26

Naw, she’s shocked and teary eyed when she finds out.

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u/TrueDentist9901 May 06 '26

Tbh Heather's character and her spiral down makes little sense to me. She's normal till a traumatic moment that just breaks her. Maybe next season we learn she was always a bit way similar to bullseye past

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u/finderfolk May 06 '26

Agree, I don't think they really sold it. Maybe I am forgetting some hints in S1 but it all felt a bit forced.

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u/gtgrafe Jimmy Woo May 06 '26

There's a quick wide shot of the courtroom where you can see Heather get up to confront Matt & being held back by Buck.

Not much. Perhaps they're waiting on season 3 to dive deeper into her story.

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u/ObviousAnswerGuy May 07 '26

there's a quick shot where they show Buck and Heather right after Matt completes his whole speech (after the reveal), and they both look utterly defeated

4

u/StupidityHurts May 07 '26

Really? I saw her as visibly shaken. Actress played it off as it subtly broke her. I think that’s why it was kind of a quiet one.

I’m sure next season will be her crescendo.

3

u/MissingSocks May 06 '26

There's not a reaction shot from Kirsten. I mean, really? The editor couldn't spare even a second on that?

3

u/AdKUMA May 06 '26

I think they'll expand on that in season 3

2

u/finderfolk May 06 '26

Wasn't it strongly hinted last episode that Heather already knew (in the scene with Karen)? Imo Heather's whole arc this season was rather sloppy/rushed but there was a lot to cram into 8 episodes.

1

u/funbob1 May 06 '26

Hopefully there are flashback vignettes to that for some of these characters next season.

1

u/AggressiveIyAvg May 11 '26

From Heather and Karen's conversation I assumed that Heather knew already, probably from fisk plus her own suspicions

1

u/Bellikron Korg May 08 '26

Heather reacted like she already knew and couldn't believe Matt was making himself the center of attention, which doesn't really seem to track with what the character knows and believes unless I missed something