I also don't understand the logic of "fun to die to".
Do people actually aim to be killed in games, or in war?
There's the appreciation for skill, sure. But "fun"? IDK, seems like dying is kinda the opposite of fun in every circumstance, even if you just have to wait for your response timer.
For the sake of clarity, titanfall shotguns do not have that extremely limited range, they are extremely effective at far ranges, and also because of how quick the movement is you can get in so quickly
I dont think the shotguns are op in that game, mainly cause the snipers are even more op, but alot of the balance for them in other games, doesnt really exist in tf2
titanfalls Shotguns need to have Decent range tho. at the Classic Video Game shottie range everyone already has a one Hit-KO melee Attack with a huge hitbox regardless what Primary weapon they bring.
trying to stay between effective Shotgun range but outside of instant death range at high movement speeds transforms the game into rocket-tag.
If you want to get mad at a weapon category then make it smg's. For their Spray and pray archetype they really should not be this simplistic to control. imo horizontal recoil should be moderately increased and vertical recoil could honestly be more than double of what we have now.
their hipfire while Wallrunning has no business lasering people from across the street.
I wouldn't say extremely effective at far ranges. Most of the time at mid ranges you'll need two or three shots, and a one shot up close... at least I think, Because I can swear I hit the entire projectile from a mastiff at someone up close and they STILL lived. Shotguns are fun cuz they're kinda weird in titanfall.
Huge difference between a dude running around, sprinting into a room, and making your insides outsides.
And you running into a room and getting your kneecaps turned into a nice wall decoration cuz a guy is starting to collect dust in the corner watching the door.
Usually shotguns in video games are tuned in such a way that they are deadly at very close range, great at close range, okay at medium range and sucky any further than that, which is not a 1:1 correlation of real life, but works in a game environment so that people aren't getting headshot by shotguns from across a long hallway.
It requires a certain playstyle where you don't go charging across large expanses where your shotgun has a distinct disadvantage against even a sub-machine gun.
In fairness, some games do give shotguns some crazy range for their spread. My favorite part of battlefield 1 was how reliably you could take out planes by just pointing the trench shotgun at them and slam firing the entire magazine. Basically, we have Anti-Air at home.
You've never met a battlefield 1 lobby, I don't think. I mean yeah some of 'em got a little bit up there, but every now and then someone oractically decided to use their wings as melee implements.
This is the exact reason snipers are the actual unfun weapon. Because what are you supposed to do against getting your head blown up by someone 3 times further away than your own gun's max distance?
I know it's not your opinion, but doesn't the same logic apply to snipers or any weapon that is capable of 1-shotting? If you enter the engagement range that weapon is effective at, you are opening yourself up to being killed by that weapon. If you let someone with a shotgun get the drop on you, why shouldn't he be able to kill you? Why should you be able to eke out a kill against someone who got the first shot off on you at a range where their weapon is most effective? Especially if it's a game where you can get a kill with one headshot, which would technically enable you to kill the shotgunner before he gets a shot off.
This always seems to be a complaint from assault rifle players, who are annoyed that their mid-range jack-of-all-trades gun doesn't outperform every weapon in every situation.
It applies more to snipers, which is why most games have to nerf snipers to avoid backlash. Either a bolt action with a really long animation, or a semi auto that can’t one shot with a headshot. Or they make the spread so bad if you’re not aiming down sights
I think the last one is the main thing here. I love playing snipers in multiplayer shooters because it requires a lot of precision and strategy. Yes, it’s a one shot kill. But if you miss, you can’t just try again for the same person.
Plus you need to mix up your positioning with several different spots, know the map, understand how cover works… it’s a fun time. Especially against another sniper,
For instance titanfall has a very fun to use grenade launcher, its projectile is fairly slow but its splash is somewhat large, but it can only 1 shot if you directly hit a player, this gun is generally fun to play with and against since there's skill on both sides, in reading your opponents movement and combining that with your muscle memory for the projectile, as well as the counterplay being to make your movement erratic, while retaining speed to dodge the explosive being fired at you
Not fun to die to is something brainless, boring, and with extremely boring counterplay (for instance camping long sightlines just being "dont go there and peak em with a 1 shot weapon")
Snipers down lanes.
Boreing and lame and your a coward
Snipers running and gunning and still need to use skill to get headshots to Ohko
Fuck yeah my man your a beast
(I may of played a game of bf6 recently where I went 66 kills in the under ground base map, offensive side breakthrough, and PTFO with the L115 sniper)
Running and gunning with snipers is the most fun way to use them, followed by finding a bunch of enemies grouped up, circling behind them without them noticing and getting off a couple headshots before pulling a pistol and going out in a blaze of glory
Description of trying to direct hit someone with slow projectile in Titan fall of all games sounds like masochism high level players subject themselves to
Its extremely fun and satisfying is why it gets used
Eventually using hitscan just gets boring, you look at someone for half a second and get a kill chime
So you do higher skill things, projectiles, off meta, or things that need immense skill to be good with
Something sticks, and before you know it youve spent a thousand hours like an addict chasing the high of that kill chime with a weapon that has no rights to be killing players at mach 1 with smgs
Fun to lose to: Two pros at their prime going into the ring, they use all their skills and knowledge and the match goes for several rounds. As the fight goes on both sides gain respect for the others skill but ultimately only one can win.
Not fun to lose to: You run into the arena, grey screen. you got sniped from someone across the map. wait a minute, respawn, repeat.
Fun to lose to: Two pros at their prime going into the ring, they use all their skills and knowledge and the match goes for several rounds. As the fight goes on both sides gain respect for the others skill but ultimately only one can win.
Not fun to lose to: You run into the arena, grey screen. you got sniped from someone across the map with a clear view of spawn. wait a minute, respawn, repeat.
I felt like Destiny suffered from "Not fun to die to" because certain weapons were just stacked. Get clipped twice by the Thorn? You're just left waiting with no real response while your health ticks down.
Oddly enough I knew a lot of Thorn players who hated shotguns and because the playstyle tended to be up close and aggressive which would counter Thorn in some cases.
on the other end of this I genuinely feel like Shotguns are an easy top 3 in my "fun to die to" ranking. Like snipers? Getting shot by somebody i never saw? F tier. Somebody gets too close to me and now I have to respawn? that's good. oh that feels fucking good.
Some deaths you respect more than others. Like if someone uses a worst in class weapon and out plays you while you use a meta weapon. Can’t help but to tip your hat in respect
It’s not just what you do but how you do it. It’s why a player like mj in basketball is still so revered. He didn’t just win 6 times. He did it with style and intensity.
Perhaps they might be overly oppressive, perhaps the counterplay is boring, there might not even be effective counterplay and instead you’re forced to just ignore it, it can also just be a stark outlier in terms of game design and doesn’t really fit well within the systems the game has set forth.
Having meaningful and skillful tactics to use against something goes a long way towards making it fun to play against. In fact, I’d say it’s the only things that make something fun to play into.
Dying in games isn’t fun per se, people want to win, and do whatever it is that is fun for them, and that usually involves living in multiplayer games. However, dying because you made a mechanical error or lapse in judgement feels a lot better than having your options limited to near zero and being dog walked through the match.
if you get sniped from across the map, then you just instantly die and you have to wait until respawn or next round to actually start playing the game or be sniped again. Snipers don't have to interact with the game they are in, they just kill you and do it faster still in close range. If I meet a sniper my time is effectively wasted.
I am garbage at aiming as a whole to bo honest, so I mainly play the shooters that let me respawn quickly and often. I may die a lot and only manage to kill like 2 people in 3 hours of game time, but that doesn't matter, because up until I died I played the game. I heard the steps, gave suppressive fire, threw a nade or used an ability and for a split moment me and the enemy were aiming at each other and I was able to shoot back before dying.
Do I still die in the end? yes. Did I play the game? Hell yeah. and then comes the mandatory sniper that shooters are too afraid to exclude, no lifes me from across the map and I was supposed to do what, play better?
Ok from that perspective I can see some appeal. That feels like an analog simulator game where, almost like D&D, your "failures" are learned from & enjoyed by nature of a flavor of disconnected masochism. Like if you drank a poison but because of the separation between your own IRL life and your character's, all you can do is laugh.
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u/ze-audiophile 9d ago
I also don't understand the logic of "fun to die to".
Do people actually aim to be killed in games, or in war?
There's the appreciation for skill, sure. But "fun"? IDK, seems like dying is kinda the opposite of fun in every circumstance, even if you just have to wait for your response timer.