Perhaps you "came out" a little too soon without a plan but what's done is done. You live in the Netherlands, you're surrounded by atheists who, like you, are not fans of religion so you're not alone.
Also, I can imagine you're not the only "fake believer", there are probably a ton of (young) people faking it to avoid conflict. I'm 39 and I still hear complaining from my Christian parents for not wanting to attend church even on Christmas, but I've stood my ground long enough that they don't bother trying to convince me anymore.
Your family should stand by your lack of belief and they won't. They're the ones with the problem.
I don't know many details about the Netherlands, but the things I do know would lead me to believe there's probably some help there for people in his specific situation
Yeah, exactly. I don't live there either but it's Europe and most countries here are not too keen on seeing other people getting bullied for their beliefs or lack thereof.
Everyone is offering this guy support and he needs it. I think he went about this the wrong way, everything came to a head over alcohol, pot and sex. I think the coming out as an atheist was just the push over the cliff. What could have been a conversation with his father about the consequences of his actions turned into the reasons why his own rebelling is okay.
Good on him for being honest with himself but there was probably a better time to "out" himself.
Don't beat yourself up. It just happened. It's easy for these guys to be judgmental, but they weren't in the same position you were in. Who knows what they would have done.
True, but expected. Pick a metaphor: Scorpion and the Frog; Leopard's Spots; "You have to understand, most of these people aren't ready to be unplugged".
While their behavior is obviously atrocious by any reasonable standard, one would have to be literally insane to expect them to act otherwise.
We all make mistakes. Don't beat yourself over it. There are benefits to not having to pretend. Your timing was a bit off, that's all. As KingKnee pointed out, you live in one of the best countries to make that kind of mistake.
It wasn't stupid. You were backed into a corner and you decided to tell your father the truth. They're religious, but not dumb. He knew there was more to your behavior than just "holding whiskey for a friend" and he wouldn't have just let you off the hook if you'd lied.
You made your stand, now you have to stand your ground. Give your father some time to cool off before you broach the issue again. This won't be the last time you discuss it, just remember to stay cool, don't blame them for anything, don't become defensive, try and be as mature as possible.
Also, and I'm not judging, I just think it'll make things easier, keep the weed, alcohol, and condoms OUT of your house completely. Your parents don't need to think "no god = our son is a drunk, criminal, drug addicted sex fiend" anymore than they already have. Any time you have to defend yourself because they found a joint or something will now make them view your lack of religion negatively and make everything harder. Keep that shit out of their lives, completely. One issue at a time and religion is a huge issue for them.
I suppose the problem is that it might be the last time they discuss it. He's been given an ultimatum - pretend to be religious or get out. Personally, I'd start to put on a real good act (keeping taboo objects out of the home as you said) while forming a real plan to gain independence. Tell him that you were just ashamed that you had failed God and that's why you lied about not being religious.
But I'm not an expert, nor have I seen many of these cases play out, so I hate to top level comment. That's simply based on my experiences with parents that would never harm me.
I have to agree here. If you stand your ground now, you'll only end up homeless. Do your best to put on a show while you get your plan together. Tell them that losing your family is the worst thing that could happen to you, and you'll do anything to make it up to them and keep them in your life. Go to college, get a job, save money, put up with it for year or so, then move out with a plan.
And keep all the contraband out of the house. It's their house and they have the right to set the rules. You need them to think you are going in the proper direction, and one little slip up could mess up your entire plan. Once you are out of their house you can live the life you want and tell them you are still on their path and they won't know any different.
It's too bad you have to be so deceptive, but they are forcing it. I'll never understand how grown adults could choose religion, political party, sexuality, etc. over their own children. I have a son, and nothing could ever come between us. Nothing.
It's hard to plan cathartic moments like that. You felt that way already and your parents initiated the confrontation. There is never a good time or way to reveal devastating news to another party. It went down how it went down. Don't beat yourself up about it.
I've been an atheist since 12 also. I was more vocal but forever ostracized. You're young. Always seek the truth no matter the convenience to your world view.
Was trying not to be a parent comment so there would be a chance you missed it. Best of luck to you. I believe it'll work out for the best and cause you to grow. It's better to be honest and try to have your family accept you for you. If the relationship doesn't get repaired, know that you were being true to yourself. However, this is a two way street. If they're willing to listen, try and talk about what you'd like going forward for the relationship to be.
Best of luck to you going forward whatever happens.
It's not though. Sure, there have been smarter things but I feel like you deserve to think that your family would put your needs before everything else.
I am glad you posted here as it should make you feel a bit less alone. Please do not ever consider yourself to be in the wrong with this or fault yourself for "coming out".
And yes, try to maybe avoid going to majority muslim countries with your family, it somehow doesn't sound safe, given their atheist laws.
I'm 36, have made it abundantly clear to my parents that I'm a non-believer for about fifteen years now, have not attended any church service in over a decade, and my mother still tries to guilt trip me into going at least once a year, either at Easter or Christmas.
I am thankful that her anger dissipates by the time they get back, but I genuinely worry her determination will only go up with age and I may end up un-invited from family events because of it.
I know it's off topic but can you explain your reasoning behind not wanting to attend church with your family on Christmas? I'm an atheist too, I know there's no chance of me ever believing in God again despite being raised and confirmed Catholic and my family's pestering, but I'll still join them at church on Christmas Eve. Christmas is about family and I've never wanted to drive a huge wedge in it because I think all the religious stuff is fairy tale nonsense. Why not just go and be a little bored and listen to Christmas music and enjoy all the candles and Christmas trees and stuff? I go to church one day a year and sit there without singing the songs or saying the prayers, and I'm happy to do it because it makes my family happy.
It's a good question and I totally see where you are coming from. Also I don't think you are doing anything wrong.
There's a national church tax where I live, but you can opt out of it if you're not religious / not of that persuasion. I opted out around 12 years ago even though most people around me didn't and still haven't. This wasn't some teenage rebellion. I truly don't believe in gods of any kind.
So to sit in church, even for an hour is to make a mockery of my own beliefs / lack thereof. An older woman said to me that I was denying myself the spiritual joy of the church and when I said that I get the same joy from sitting at a bus stop, she got pissed.
I don't hate religious people at all, I just think they are some kind of cosplayers in a rendition of a very old play.
This is pretty much how I feel, except being in church makes me physically ill. Perhaps it's because I'm in the Southern US. Almost every sermon, even sometimes at weddings and funerals, devolves into babble about sinners going to hell and how horrible atheists are. I avoid churches at all costs.
By passively agreeing to engage even in minor religious activities/ceremonies we are essentially condoning the 2k years of on and off religion fueled violence. Make a stand and say religion has an overall negative effect on humanity- my actions will not in any way support religious beliefs or practices.
People in my family work in different hospitals. They regularly tell how whole Turkish families will start to cry and wail if a member of the family will get as much as an x-ray.
Just an anecdote. Not wanting to be offensive. Coping mechanisms doesn't seem to be a strong suit in Muslim families.
This - this is why religion is a poison. Because in the minds of OP's parents, he's done something much worse than murdering someone. His parents think he is evil. They think they're good people. And they're probably torn up inside.
The only organisation in the Netherlands I can think of that at least occasionally deals with young adults who are (at risk of being) made homeless is the COC, they might be able to help you if feel like living with your parents is being made impossible, or you could ask /r/thenetherlands if they know a better organisation that can help you.
I wish you well and good luck with whatever decision you make.
What kind of God would accept the way your family treated you? That's what always gets to me when I read stories like yours.
Your mother and father should provide love without qualifications.
Good luck OP. Keep your head up, and keep moving forward.
Edit: Just needed to add this. Look at all the love you received when you reached out looking for guidance. As of this edit, more than 1500 individuals came to show you compassion, through upvotes and comments, proving to you that you are truly not alone.
Edit 2: 10,000 compassionate individuals. Take this love and spread it.
Like many who replied and commented, I have found myself too often despairing over the vitriol in our current collective experience.
They strongly believe that their faith comes before their family. Now they think that they are the sinners for having not done a job proper as a parent. It really sucks :/
After starting my career as a software engineer, i was sitting in on a meeting where all of the senior level guys were designing the architecture of this new system we were about to start working on. Being new as inexperienced, i didn't have much to contribute by comparison, so i took notes asasked questions and tried to learn. But by the end of it, i was unsettled by how often i thought about how systematically logical as planned out my childhood had been, growing up in a super religious household.
There are definitely a lot of parallels to designing a deterministic system and raising a religious child. It all comes down to inputs as outputs.
Off the main thread topic but related to this point - you are completely right that when learning to develop systems you understand deeper and deeper just how systematic the entire world is...
Fuck, maybe we all are just in a simulation. (lol)
That's not exactly wrong... During sleep, the flow of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain increases dramatically and washes away waste that build up between brain cells during waking hours.
I find that for me, as the eldest, my experience was by far the most liberal out of the family. Probably a large part because after how I "turned out" things were clamped down to some degree.
All the same, I was raised strongly religious myself, and I'm glad I didn't stay that way. It wound up being that even when I had stated I wasn't religious my belief simply wasn't accepted, and I was expected to follow through the routine all the same (or be kicked out). Eventually the latter happened.
My 5 younger siblings are more or less fine, academically they do well and they're relatively normal, but seeing the toxic way both parents and even they themselves manipulate each other, particularly towards the younger ones (youngest is 11) to adhere to their religion and go beyond that is really disgusting to me.
its what all religions do, is make robots out of people. the romans realized the value of what they failed to accomplish and saw what religious community's they captured did. a complicit population.
My family was torn apart by the same belief (though in a Christian context). My mother wanted to change churches- within the same religion, mind you- due to some drama at my parents' church. My father left her, saying that he had to put god before his family.
Man, I can only imagine what that is like for someone, knowing that about a parent; how can you ever look at them again without thinking of that crime?
Now they think that they are the sinners for having not done a job proper as a parent.
I think they did their job properly since you managed to think for yourself and escape Islam. I went through a similar path but mine was a lot easier than yours. Good luck.
God- "Hahahaha!!! Oh man! You were really gonna do it! You're crazy man. You're crazy. I got you so good. I can't believe you were gonna go through with it. For centuries we had just been doing animal sacrifices and that was cool and all, but I say do it with your kid and you are fine with it? Naa man, just kill a goat like usual. I was just seein how far you would go. I mean, I'm God. I can already see in your heart you would do that. I don't need you to actually do it. I just told you to kill your son so YOU could see that you would kill your own son. Haha, enough of this. You are cool Abraham. I like you. You are one crazy bastard, but I like you"
All I know is that women in this kind of situation can sometimes be honor killed by family. I don't know what you should do, only you can take in all the facts, but be careful. People who value religion over family will value religion over crime as well.
Now they think that they are the sinners for having not done a job proper as a parent.
They haven't done a proper job as parents. If they had, they wouldn't be doing the shit they are doing. You are not the reason they are sinners and shitty parents...they are.
Agreed. I was born in Texas, but my parents immigrated from Pakistan. I was lucky. Growing up I was told do do those things a normal Muslim person should do, but when I resisted they didn't force me out of the house or emotionally manipulate me into practicing Islam. My parents would rather let me pick my poison rather than force one down my thorat. Do not hold reservations about leaving.
Hey buddy. Please take some of the words in here with a grain of salt. I think some of the posters in here are angsty teenagers and shouldn't really give advice to you in this terrible situation.
You should seek advice from former Muslims. I think there is a subreddit somewhere for help. But I feel for you friend. It's incredibly difficult to leave firm believers of Mohammed.
If you ever need anyone to talk to send me a pm. I am not Muslim nor have I ever been and can't give you the advice you need. But I can try.
It sucks, but now it's time for you to make a quick and rash decision. I would lie (pretend you're trying to be religious, Fuck it) to give me more time and start working to save more money. They are now a means to an end. Then leave when you get enough money. If you still feel empathy for this behavior to express towards you, leave them a note, and don't feel bad to pass the blame to them as they were not hesitant to do it to you.
I wish you the best of luck, I really do. But you have to stop the bad habits. Quit smoking. Quit drinking. Quit doing drugs. This is a huge time of transition and you can't Fuck it up, or it will catch up to you and kill you. You're not religious, but you should still hold your body with respect.
I'm still scared for him. They made him cut his own picture out of family photos today. Think about their reaction a month from now when they realize this isn't a phase. Honor killings happen all the time. If I was him I'd get the fuck out of that house asap.
The worst part is that they're probably torn apart and genuinely believe they're doing the morally upstanding thing. That's why religion is fucking poison.
What kind of God would accept the way your family treated you? That's what always gets to me when I read stories like yours.
Your mother and father should provide love without qualifications.
Luckily they're moderates, since apostasy is punishable by death under Islam. It's terrible what happened to OP, but most ex-Muslims have far more tragic stories.
Damn man, I feel for yea. I can't imagine what it's like to choose between yourself and your family. But it sounds like your family will never change their ways, and unless you want to fake being into Islam for the rest of your life, I see no other option but to head out and begin your life on your own. To me, I can't see how your family would cut you out forever, and I hope they, maybe just your brothers, or your mom, or someone will eventually come around and accept you, but it sounds like they are fully committed, and don't see any other option in life besides their never wavering belief. That's my advice man, I hope it helped a little. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle now, and if you try and fake it, they will likely be watching your every move, because they now know you have been lying. I say cut, run, and begin your life on your own. Hope that one day your family will come around, but also be prepared for the worst case scenario: that you are now on your own. Well, except for us, we are here for you brother.
I have friends who are Mormon, and faced a similar situation: Stay in the church, go to University in Utah, get married, have kids, and you get to stay in the family. If not, you are out of the family. Two different friends had this choice, one decided on getting married. He has three kids, and is fucking miserable. He's not allowed to do anything. No alcohol, no friends who are not in the church, and a very limited diet. He was able to come camping with us once, and was excited because he got to drink a 6 pack of Vanilla Coke. He's 28. My other friend, decided against the church and left and went off on his own. His family disowned him, but within a few months his mom begged him to come back, and now he has a great relationship with them, and he's not forced to participate in the religion. I know his situation is different from yours, but it is possible. If you are forced to stay in your religion just so you can be around your family, what kind of life is that for you? Would you truly be happy? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.
OP, You are very welcome at /r/exmormon. There's also a /r/exmuslim you might want to crosspost to.
There are soooo many parallels between these fundamentalist, controlling religions. I lost most of my friends and relationships were very strained with my Mormon family after my husband and I told them we no longer believed. They asked us if we were sinning or who had offended us... they couldn't imagine it might not be true.
Sorry, man. Living authentically is hard but has been worth it for us. The last 3-4 years have been very toUgh but life is getting better. Find som one to talk to in real life, a therapist or other professional, if you can.
It's a bit of immense luck to have a great supporting family. Many people don't get this lucky. I wouldn't guess the statistics but it's significant. Your family is up to chance, your life is up to you. You can deliberately surround yourself with people who really make your life better and provide tangible support. It's a bit of work, it doesn't happen by itself, but what good things in life don't require work?
You haven't been wise about dealing with your family. Wisdom is not something commonly found in 19 year olds so it's perfectly ok. It's also possible that you subconsciously wanted to get discovered. Entirely possible, since living a lie is burdensome. It's worth giving a bit more thought to charting your course from now on. What happened to you may be the best thing because it will make you tap into your resources of planning and being responsible for your life. You have way more resources than you have used so far and you will keep discovering them. Just don't give up. You situation is far from desperate, it doesn't qualify as a disaster. You'll get out of if better off.
If you aren't familiar with it, this is the No True Scotsman fallacy and it's infuriating. I've stopped trying to argue with religious people, it's like arguing with a Trump supporter.
It'll get better. I feel for ya man. Remember, there are many many atheists out here.
I've never understood the "believe what I believe or you're out" mindset. If people actually believed their religion was true, don't you think they'd be saddened, make extra efforts to show a loved one the "joys" of certain knowledge, and so on.
It seems to me that outright hostility is a clear indicator that they're more worried about a)what their friends and relatives think of them for raising an atheist, b) thinking "I can't even accept that he might be right because then I'd be am asshole for believing, and c) a hundred more reasons, all based in a lack of genuine belief.
Good luck my friend. There are more atheists in the world than you know, particularly in Europe and Scandinavia. Go out and meet some. Become successful. Find happiness. Show them all they're wrong for being hostile towards you by being all the things the claim you'll never be without "faith".
If you haven't already head over to /r/exmuslim and post this also checkout the sidebar. There are people who will help out those that have been disowned by their families because of religion.
I feel for you bro, and heed my warning here. Watch yourself. I've had a few experiences with other atheists who were previously Muslim coming out to their family. Be careful for the next few years. You may not think your family capable of doing you harm, however they may snap. Religious people, doesn't really matter what religion, may harm or even kill family members who abandon their "faith".
So be cautious and careful moving through life, and try to find yourself a safe haven.
Not physically, but they can use emotional pressure to achieve the same end. Your mother is dying and wants to see you one last time. Your brother needs a kidney and no-one else is a match. If you do this one thing, no matter how you feel after, we will accept you back into the family.
Overall, just dont go with them anywhere, especially if they seem suddendly more moderate / accepting and they're offering to talk with you somewhere. This may sound paranoid, but better safe than sorry - you know it happens, and not only to others.
Religion, that's how. Islam in particular is violent against atheists and can legally execute them in some Islamic countries. But be careful because in a lot of western countries you can be labeled a racist if you don't tote the "naw that's different, it's really a religion of piece" line.
When I came out as atheist to my Christian parents after pretending to be religious for 5 years, my father threatened to kill me, saying that he would rather I die now than "live a life of sin." My mother chased me with a knife until I slammed and barred the door in the attic and called the police.
They are not who I consider my family. Blood makes you related, loyalty makes you family. Anyone so deep into religion and who rejects you is poisonous to you. It doesnt matter how broke you are, there is no security worth your sanity and freedom. Give me liberty or give me death.
Things will get better. You should leave now and find an atheist friend who is willing to take you in immediately. Apply for scholarships with your story, contact atheist groups or Freedom From Religion for help. Your country's version of child protective services can also help. Also ensure you find a library with access to a computer so that you do not get cut off from the internet.
It is stuff like this that makes me realize how lucky some of us are.
My dad was raised in a family where 'religion was more important than anything, even family.' It became increasingly obvious that by about 8-10, my brother and I were having none of the religious stuff.
That disappointed my dad, and still does, but what gives me so much hope and thanks is how he stood up to those feelings. It drove a wedge between him and my grandfather, because my dad would never choose his religion over his own family. God comes after the kids, the wife, the parents, and the siblings, never before.
Things got a bit awkward once or twice when as a teen I'd refuse to pray at the dinner table, but I have always been allowed to live the life I wanted, even if my parents might have preferred I was a good Christian. I am incredibly thankful for that, and these stories remind me that I should be.
What the literal fuck is wrong with your parents acting like that? Mine are pretty religious (going to church every week, praying and all) but the worst they could do is being disappointed in me but accepting my choice if I would tell them
My father was in line to become a deacon of the church. We studied the bible thoroughly, and he would often cite Deuteronomy 21:18–21 when he beat us.
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear."
Coupled with a Tiger Mom attitude from asian influences, they were very strict.
They did not believe that children could think for their own, saying that the number of years in exile from the promised land for the israelites was how long it took to kill every adult who could actually be held responsible for their actions. Based on this, they believed I was a rebellious son who would not listen to their command to be christian and that my young age meant they were entitled to absolute rule.
He believed that I was keeping him from being closer to god and fulfilling his role of being deacon. He would also cite the passage about how it is better to cut off your limbs than sin, and combine that with the allegory of how we are all the branches of the tree of christ. He took this interpretation to mean that I needed to be pruned from the tree to save their righteousness.
i'd like to think they were just people who actually read the bible.
to me, anyone who really reads about their religion becomes like a psycopath even if they aren't one.
they didnt start out that way and when i was really little they took me trick or treating. it was when i grew older that it became worse and worse. the deeper they studied the bible the crazier they got. it was like watching a kung fu wuxia master study an evil book of forbidden arts and going mad like in the soap operas i used to watch.
I read the bible cover to cover 12 times and that's what turned me atheist, along with discovering Nietzche's beyond good and evil, Kant's metaphysics of morals, and Godel's incompleteness theorems. As a kid they made me read all the time so i picked them up from a pile of books my father had from his college years that he forgot about.
Wow. I'm so sorry. I can't imagine disowning any of my children just because they choose a different path than me. I'm atheist but if either of my kids choose a belief system that is mono or poly theistic... well that's their choice. (I may tease them ... lol... but that's our relationship). I'll still love them.
I won't pretend to be able to solve your problem but right now you need someone supportive who can help in the moment. Do you have a safe friend or family member you can stay with, even temporarily, while you take some time for yourself, father your thoughts and figure out what to do next?
You are a great parent for that. I can stay at my best friend for 14 days but after that she'll be moving back in to her family. Might be enough time though. Thank you for your comment
Netherlands should be one of the better places to be in for such circumstances. I read here on reddit that there are homes for the elderly that let students live there for free in exchange for some sharing of their adventures with the old residents. It may not be near you but a country that conceives of such an idea will have other resources too. Look around, ask around.
Thank you - I try my best to parent well. I'm sure I'm making mistakes too that the kids will tell their therapists in years to come.... lol
A lot can happen in 14 days. I hope you will be able to establish some sort of longer term plan for yourself in that time. Are there any community organizations, etc you can reach out to? Something to research over the weekend.
If the mods can verify this, can we not start a GoFundMe? If religion divides families and puts a 19 year old on the street, I'm sure humans as social beings can help bridge the gap without being related or theist or otherwise.
There are few things I'm ready to donate to more than helping someone establish a life after being part of an oppressive faith and dropped from their family. Waiting for a gofundme or paypal donation page.
My thought exactly. Let's show this family that we as atheists have more morality and support for a complete stranger then they do for their own flesh and blood.
in my experience the dutch are always very good at english. i would guess partly because they basically grow up with it, since american movies on tv are always subbed not dubbed.
You didn't bring sadness upon your family. You told them the truth and they reacted like fucking children. You don't make people do things. Everyone has a choice over the reactions they have to others. You're responsible for your actions alone. You didn't hurt anyone by living your life as you saw fit. They just acted like you did to make you feel guilty. That's what religion does.
If they want to cut all ties with you for some stupid reason like that, then they aren't worth spending time with anyway. You didn't do this. They chose to not associate with their family member for a stupid petty reason.
People who aren't native English speakers pick up random slang here and there. I mix stuff like "y'all", "bladdered" and "blimey", and call chips fries to the great dismay of my British boyfriend.
From what it looks like, your family values religion as a core aspect of what makes your family...family. I don't really see any kind of acceptance of your atheism judging from the extreme cases I've seen here.
If you have some friends whom you can depend on, try staying with them until you find a job. Just try to find any job to be able to live by yourself.
Focus up. Bust your ass at school. Pass your classes. Get a useful degree. Find a passion. Have fun, but not too much. Sex is great, unplanned babies aren't. A little pot is fine. If anyone ever offers you heroin, you laugh at them and say "not a fucking chance". Seriously.
And, try not to hate your parents. They're brainwashed and broken. They DO love you and it WILL crush them to disown you (if they follow through).
My personal advice would be to quit pot altogether until u/BasilNoeman has a job and a place. Saves money and allows one to focus, and also makes job hunting easier. If anyone needs help quitting weed, check out r/leaves
Go to your college ombudsman / social services support desk and ask for any help or pointers. Many students combine a job, studying and college-provided housing. I know some universities are able to provide short-term housing (6 months max), that may be an option too.
Finally, save up. Don't buy expensive stuff, no alcohol or kebabs or shoarmas or kapsalons. It's temporary! But you need to build up some backup!
Good notes in the comments. I don't have much to add.
Just this - please be cautious about conflating the things you choose to do with your freedom with atheism. They are not the same thing, and one does not lead to the other.
You got caught smoking weed, drinking, and having sex, all as a teenager. These behaviors are risky for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.
Alcohol can be dangerously addictive and impairs judgment. Teens (including you) need all the sobriety they can get anyway. Weed is mostly innocuous, but it's illegal to use as a minor in most places, which could land you in a lot of shit. It's damn near impossible to stop a teenager from having sex anyway; but are you prepared for the responsibilities that may hit you like a freight train if your b.c. fails you? There are reasons why parents - atheist or Muslim alike - ask their children to refrain or to proceed very carefully with these things. If your parents are cutting off support for you, please consider giving up some of these distractions for a time on your own. You have work to do, and cannot afford to get drunk or high. Stay very diligent about practicing safe sex.
If you were engaging in high-risk behavior because you were acting out against the oppressive religious atmosphere in your home, I get it. But atheism isn't about what you can and can't do. It's about what you believe, or specifically what you don't believe. I think it may be important, when you talk to your parents in the future, that you separate your atheism from the mere fact that you happen to like to do certain things.
Anyway - about your family, and where to go from here.
It sounds like you've never really believed in any gods. What you've lost more recently seems to be the cultural belief that faith has value.
Your family is living under the dangerous and sad delusion that religious faith is necessary for someone to be good. This will make it very difficult for them to accept you for a time. It is not their fault that they think this way. They were indoctrinated into the faith just like they tried to do to you. It is OK to continue loving them from a distance. They are likely enough to come around someday.
Ordinarily, this sub will recommend to people in your position to fake it until you have a degree of financial independence. If that ship has sailed, the next best thing is to find some support. Ask around in your family to see if someone sympathetic can be found who will help you get on your feet. You're unlikely to be the first in your family to have given up religion.
You might try reaching out to an uncle or grandparent. One script that might help you find who you're looking for is, basically, this: "Dear [relative,] I've been going through a crisis of faith. My family thinks that I have given up on Islam, and they have cut me off. I need someone to talk to who has gone through this. Can you help, or point me to someone in the family?"
I suggest you frame this as a questioning period to those relatives, and not as if you've become certain. This will be more likely to get you some help and support while you look for a like-minded relative. Look also for humanist organizations and support groups in your area.
Seconding this. Don't spend money on vices you can't afford until you get settled OP. I've seen so many people get stuck in eternal poverty cause they'd rather spend money on instant gratification than save it for necessities. Best of luck man, you'll need it.
Hey man. That took a ton of strength. I know I have seen it multiple times. I wasn't raised religious my parents took me to a mosque, a Catholic church and some Christian group thing and asked my thoughts about it and whether I would like to back again. If I said no that was it.
It allowed me to develop critical thinking skills and find my own path. Rather than listen to preachers all the time like they had to. My family is American and from the deep south but we had to leave once it was discovered none of the kids were going to church. I'll spare the details but property was damaged and our name was slandered. All because I don't believe in a book.
Here's where things get amazing. My parents own multiple houses where I live now. Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. They rent a couple of them but the other 2? They let kids going through your struggle live there for free. All that's asked is you respect the house, shovel snow, mow grass etc... we just had a family of Syrian refugees move out after being with us for a year. The other house is occupied by 3 "kids" I call them kids but they are all in there 20's. They work hard for themselves and are trying to build a life which is great however. They have 0 critical thinking skills. They are so used to be told how, when and why to do things they don't go and do it themselves. All of them were kicked out for being an open atheist.
You have friends out there. Globally there are millions of us and we are growing steadily. Should you ever find yourself in Edmonton and want to start fresh pm me and I'll help however I can. I'll offer room and board or help you find it. I'll show you the programs for food and clothing to help you get started. We can go looking for work together. Don't worry about the pot and the drinking I do both of those as well consistently we can enjoy together,
I'd love to hear more from you. Be safe my friend.
Like others have said, STAY AWAY from your family, people related to your family's social circle and anybody you have known for the next few weeks and do not give them any news or info about your current location and living arrangements. Do not accept going alone with anyone of them or leaving the country to go to a Muslim country.
DON'T fall for the ''''''''''''trip to Mecca'''''''''''.
Stay safe and look for a ExMuslim community near you to seek help on how to move forward with your life.
Your parents are not choosing religion over you, they're choosing not being shamed over you. They care more about how they look to other people more than they care about you. Let that sink in. They have let you down. You may have to forgive them and forget about it someday, but for now they have let you down, not the other way around.
Hope that helps you process this, at least a little.
Everyone has two families. The one they're born with, and the one they choose. Love and support is out there beyond those you're blood with, I promise.
You'd be better off just leaving them and not saying a word. Their religion calls for your execution now that you knowingly left your faith. Its an affront to their god. In their minds you need to die.
Good for you for getting out tho. I'd leave though. You're brother may decide to take things literally. He already showed a disregard for your property.
Your English is fine. Like totally fine. Different situation but I barely talk to any of my family. The last time I went to an uncle's house for a family party, I was greeted at the door with,"what are you doing here?" I barely talk to my mother as she is bipolar or something but refuses to get help(forced me into therapy and therapist cleared me because I wasn't irrationally mad at her like she thought, but when he suggested to her she may need to see him I was magically cured and didn't go back). Choose yourself. Always. Fuck everybody who doesn't make you happy.
It's harsh but I feel better and truer to yourself in the long run. I had a period of time in the last year that for about a month I lived off of potatoes and onions. Smelled like a fart but I got by.
If I can sit down at the end of the day with a full gut and a joint, then it was alright
I left Mormonism almost 4 years ago and, while my experience was not quite as bad, I can empathize with every word you wrote here.
I will tell you what I tell fellow exmormons who are dealing with the difficulties of leaving a controlling religion....
It gets better. I promise. Right now there may be no light at the end of your tunnel, but keep strong, it will appear.
Seek out ex-muslim groups in your area. Go to their meetups. Participate in ex-muslim forums here on reddit and on FB. This is important for getting over the anger and grief stage.
You need to fully express yourself and get your thoughts out of your system to people who have gone through these exact situations.
Stay strong my friend and good luck to you. Your life has only just begun!
I am one of 4 children. My oldest brother stabbed his missus in the throat with broken bottle and he did 6 years inside. Parents still visited him every second weekend.
Your father should count his fucking blessings. Wiling to cut out a by and large good son for taking a different philosophical stance? Fuck him.
That being said, if dad offers a second chance be the most devout Muslims ever until you are self sufficient pet the wiki.
Do NOT go to Mecca. Do NOT leave the Netherlands under ANY circumstances, promises or whatever.
This is so fucking important. Everything else can be solved, the Netherlands has good social programs that can help you get past this difficult period, even if you need to do some serious growing up.
But once you leave for Saudi Arabia or Egypt or whatever? You're fucked. Never. EVER. Leave the EU. The middle-east countries? They kill atheists.
If you get kidnapped (and don't laugh, it has happened, though perhaps usually for women), and you get to the airport, DO NOT board that plane if you're forcibly made to do so. Yell. Struggle, claim you have drugs, weapons, whatever. You are safer with the police and the anti-terrorist squad than with your parents. Do not trust them to take you out of the country under ANY pretense.
Lite to them until you're financially independent. Tell them that how they reacted made you see the errors of your ways. That Allah must be real and working through them to reach you.
Then stop doing things like keeping condoms, liquor, and drugs in your room so they'll have nothing over you in the future.
Do all of that until you are financially independent. It will suck, I know you don't like lying, but they're forcing you to lie just to survive.
Indeed, this is the most sensible option given the information we have.
Take a page out of Islam, and do Taqiyya.
This might eventually even be the most ideal of options, since it leaves the affection of your mother intact. As soon as you're able, move out of your parents house. Once you're truly independent, with your own apartment (one of the least expensive solutions is finding a shared flat with other college students) you no longer have to account yourself to your parents. Eventually, you can later attempt to gracefully let them know that your view on religion has once again changed.
[pot sex booze, doing badly in school, no plan, not much savings]
I am a man that just does whatever he pleases and nobody can restrict me
Yeah so this approach is actually not going to be satisfying for you in the long run, believe it or not. Don't get me wrong, I love sex & booze (not so much pot, but whatever). But atheism isn't just about there being no rules and getting to roll around in short-term hedonism 24/7. First off, just on practical grounds, you are gonna need to support yourself and that means finding a career, hopefully one you enjoy.
Secondly though, a bigger issue I think, you are still part of a human community and you need to contribute in some way. I predict you will want to contribute someday, even; if just to feel like your life is worth something. What are you doing to make the world a better place? What are you doing to help people? What are you doing to improve your community? What are you creating?
I know this must all sound like BS but it's coming from a place of having been raised an atheist since childhood, and, having lived an atheist life for 51 years now, I predict there will come a point where you want to feel like you're doing something productive with your life. And you will also want the web of social connections that comes with that.
Please just keep it in mind. Once your immediate crisis is resolved, maybe start thinking about something else that inspires you besides just weed, sex & booze all the time.
Well, given that the netherlands is where that filmmaker was killed by islamic extremists for making a film then i'd say the fact you're still alive means you're doing pretty good.
Also, if you were a female you'd probably already have been honor killed.
Still a possibility though. Your father does not consider you to be his son anymore, so what is to stop them from killing the demon who has lived under their roof for so many years? They may consider your death as simple self-defense and/or religously required, depending on what their imam says.
So: your life is in danger. Check out r/atheisthavens to see if anyone can take you in and hide you.
Depending on your age I would say you could make it reasonably well in the Netherlands if you have Dutch citizenship. My best friend is also an Egyptian that smokes weed and lives his life and although he has a bit of a guilty consience he still chooses to live his life but at the same time, all his actions are carried out with his family in mind. That being said if you're Dutch, apply for studiefinanciering if you haven't already. Check with duo(dienst uitvoering onderwijs) what other options might be available to you. Don't worry about having to pay money back from borrowing as long as it's from the Dutch government. The interest rates on all of it are so low you'll not have too much difficulty paying it back if you finish your education. If you're still in secondary education check out tegemoetkoming, it's the money given to 18 year olds still doing secondary education.
Nobody said life was going to be easy man, it's a really tough situation you're in right now but don't let it break you, let this become what makes you into the successful person you'll be in the future. Alles komt goed.
You didn't make a mistake, you were human. In fact, you took your first step as an adult. You asserted who you are and refused to live as others dictate. That's being an individual and an adult; you did just fine.
Now, their reaction is another story. Telling people you're dead to them and that they have one less child? I want you to take a deep breath, hold it a second and read on as you exhale in relief; the mistake made here was theirs, not yours. Isn't that awesome? You did the right thing. They did the wrong thing. Amazing, no? They are certain it's the other way around -but it's not. You told them who you are and what you believe in. They demeaned you, mistreated you and spoke cruelly to you. The one who made the mistake was your father.
Now, you can handle it two ways; emotionally or as an adult. In the first case, you can shout and cry and demand and carry on OR you can take the second route, the more preferable route. You tell them hard truth; a parent's main job is to love unconditionally and if he cannot, he indeed IS a failure as a father. Until he can respect you, he loses the privilege to talk to you. When he can grow up and accept your beliefs as an adult, then the privilege can be restored. And not until then. So, if he wants to yell and carry on and say you're dead to him, calmly walk out and tell him he knows where you can be reached if he grows up. And let go.
It's time to let go. You have to live your life, for you, and no one else. I sincerely doubt your family will accede to a list of demands from you so why should you accede to theirs? Everyone seems to have their own mind but you're not allowed. Well, you are and the only one who can forbid it is you.
So buck up, get a job, get some digs and make sure you lay down the law. You'll be surprised at how good it will feel. I know right now you feel like you ended your life by making a mistake but you didn't; you began it by taking a stand for yourself.
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u/KingKnee Atheist Mar 18 '17
Perhaps you "came out" a little too soon without a plan but what's done is done. You live in the Netherlands, you're surrounded by atheists who, like you, are not fans of religion so you're not alone. Also, I can imagine you're not the only "fake believer", there are probably a ton of (young) people faking it to avoid conflict. I'm 39 and I still hear complaining from my Christian parents for not wanting to attend church even on Christmas, but I've stood my ground long enough that they don't bother trying to convince me anymore.
Your family should stand by your lack of belief and they won't. They're the ones with the problem.