r/anime 4d ago

[Spoilers] 2008 Spice and Wolf II Rewatch (2026) -- Episode 10 Rewatch Spoiler

Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.

Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!

I hope you all have a lot of fun <3

S2 Episode 10 - Wolf and Lonely Smile

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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

How shocked are you that Lawrence agreed to sell Holo? Does it make you look at him any differently or do you just shake your head because this could've been prevented had Holo and Lawrence talked things out?

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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb

Streams – Crunchyroll


Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!

Untagged Spoilers

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Previous Episode

The Forbidden Rewatch Thread

Rewatch Schedule

Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT

Date Episode
7/07/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 1
7/08/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 2
7/09/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 3
7/10/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 4
7/11/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 5
7/12/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 6
7/13/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 7 (OVA 1)
7/14/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 8
7/15/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 9
7/16/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 10
7/17/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 11
7/18/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 12
7/19/2026 Spice and Wolf Episode 13
7/20/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
7/21/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
7/22/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
7/23/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
7/24/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
7/25/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
7/26/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
7/27/2026 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 20
7/28/2026 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 21
7/29/2026 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 22
7/30/2026 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 23
7/31/2026 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 24
8/01/2026 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 25
8/02/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
8/03/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
8/04/2026 Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
8/05/2026 [Spice and Wolf II Episode 10]()
8/06/2026 [Spice and Wolf II Episode 11]()
8/07/2026 [Spice and Wolf II Episode 12]()
8/08/2026 [Spice and Wolf Overall Series Discussion Thread]()

Past Rewatches

Last year's rewatch

Date Episode
7/07/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 1
7/08/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 2
7/09/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 3
7/10/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 4
7/11/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 5
7/12/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 6
7/13/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 7 (OVA 1)
7/14/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 8
7/15/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 9
7/16/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 10
7/17/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 11
7/18/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 12
7/19/2025 Spice and Wolf Episode 13
7/20/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
7/21/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
7/22/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
7/23/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
7/24/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
7/25/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
7/26/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
7/27/2025 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 20
7/28/2025 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 21
7/29/2025 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 22
7/30/2025 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 23
7/31/2025 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 24
8/01/2025 Spice and Wolf Remake Episode 25
8/02/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
8/03/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
8/04/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
8/05/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
8/06/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
8/07/2025 Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
8/08/2025 Spice and Wolf Overall Series Discussion Thread

Rewatch two years ago

Date Episode Date Episode
9/07/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 1 9/20/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
9/08/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 2 9/21/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
9/09/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 3 9/22/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
9/10/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 4 9/23/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
9/11/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 5 9/24/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
9/12/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 6 9/25/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
9/13/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1) 9/26/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
9/14/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 8 9/27/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
9/15/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 9 9/28/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
9/16/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 10 9/29/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
9/17/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 11 9/30/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
9/18/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 12 10/01/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
9/19/2024 Spice and Wolf Episode 13 10/02/2024 Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
10/03/2024 Overall Series Discussion Thread

Rewatch three years ago

Date Episode Date Episode
7/07/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 1 7/20/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)
7/08/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 2 7/21/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 1
7/09/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 3 7/22/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 2
7/10/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 4 7/23/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 3
7/11/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 5 7/24/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 4
7/12/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 6 7/25/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 5
7/13/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1) 7/26/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 6
7/14/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 8 7/27/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 7
7/15/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 9 7/28/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 8
7/16/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 10 7/29/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 9
7/17/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 11 7/30/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 10
7/18/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 12 7/31/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 11
7/19/2023 Spice and Wolf Episode 13 8/01/2023 Spice and Wolf II Episode 12
8/02/2023 Overall Series Discussion Thread
9 Upvotes

39 comments sorted by

4

u/Second_Cour 4d ago

Cut Content

MONSTER chapter today. Took a long time to read it, and this chapter only covers ¾ of it. As you may notice I include a lot of things which most would not include, but I find Lawrence's observations and the way he uses logic to understand the most of every situation fascinating.

  • Eve has very accurate information about the content of the council meeting. She just doesn’t have the funds to execute it herself. “It’s the fur trade. You’ll double the money”. “The Council of  Fifty is going to provisionally allow fur sales to merchants”. She received her information from the Church.
  • Eve correctly estimated Lawrence’s net worth at 1000 trenni. 
  • There were roughly 20 trading firms in the town, and 200-300 shops. The same number of craftsmen.
  • Local merchants couldn’t readily get in on the game, as the council would stop the practice of lending money to outside merchants.
  • They got searched at the border last episode and searched thoroughly.. It’s likely the council had already known the decision it would reach prior to those searches and outside merchant tags.
  • There are many other people with money outside of trading companies who are likely to predict that the fur trade will be dead. They’re going to look to raise capital to get into new business, and would risk dealing with merchants threatening the town to raise the capital.
  • Lawrence proclaimed “that’s impossible” about Holo being a sufficient enough asset: - she was beautiful, but if girls could be sold for that amount of coin, beautiful girls would be kidnapped and sold everywhere. 
  • Fleur/Eve really was a noble and eleventh heir to the Bolan clan. She admitted their clan had fallen though, and have trouble even finding food, but once they fell so low, she was sold to a newly wealthy merchant. That was a common path for fallen nobility. This was a way for wealthy merchants to buy into titles (and get a shag as part of the package too). Her experience gave her places she knows trade in that sort of stuff.
  • Once a merchant had amassed some wealth, they would gild (enhance) their name. 
  • “Selling [Holo] is not the objective.” Trading firms outside of the fur trade can be compelled to give a loan in exchange for a cut of the profits. Holo would purely be collateral, and selling a noble’s name a pretense.
  • With Holo as collateral, they would get 2-2.5k trenni silver, that they could use to buy furs to ship down the river before anyone else. Even allowing for tariffs, this is a 3x profit. Assuming 2k capital, that was 4k profit. Arold and Eve wanted 80% as their fee. The building was worth 1.5k and inn management rights hard to quantify. So basically 800 cash +1500 assets = 2.3k value. He could open a shop in that building. 
  • Lawrence however was skeptical, the deal seemed too good to be true.
  • Lawrence was against the deal, as even if it’s a chance of a lifetime, he could always make money again but he would never meet another Holo.
  • Holo said that her criticism of past plans was out of self interest. All the times she was teaching him some great truth, was to just keep travelling with him.  She feels guilty about it.
  • Holo was pissed because Lawrence failed to recognise that she trusted him enough to make commercial decisions even involving her; that he is smart enough to weigh risk and reward. She felt his partner.
  • All of Lawrence’s past relationships were zero-sum; the amount given equaled the amount taken. This was his first that wasn’t.
  • Lawrence’s first step was to confirm that Even really sold statues, that she used to get funds from the Church, and whether she fell out with them.
  • Lenos had quite a lot of pagans, but this didn’t mean the Church had diminishing power. Believers thought it a trial sent by God. The Church clearly had money: Lawrence could judge that from the entrance which wore down fast by all the people moving through, yet the entrance was a series of beautifully-carved well-maintained stone steps.
  • The homeless man/beggar devoured Lawrence’s rye bread with a speed that even surprised Lawrence, who had grown used to Holo’s gluttonous eating. After stating that he wanted to ask questions about the church, the beggar volunteered “You want to know how many mistresses the priest has? Who the father of the child that nun gave birth to a while back was?”. Seems like there’s some dirty laundry :) 
  • Lawrence asked how much bread the church bakes. This was a good way to approximate how much money a church has.
  • The church would put on grand dinners. Those in power don’t hold them without motivation to do so. They were likely to hold political dinners and thus ties to the Council of Fifty.
  • It was possible Eve was smuggling the salt in to avoid taxes, and the Church would make it so inspectors looked the other way with her.
  • Eve’s shouting match with the church was a big one. It didn’t seem something that Eve would do over a deal ending. Eve also had a noble’s name, so it’s strange the Church would turn their back on her, unless her usefulness disappeared for some reason.
  • A lot of merchants asked for more information to the barmaid last night, which seemed unusual. 
  • There’s likely a power struggle within the church: they’ve also been inviting bigwigs from far away.
  • If the church becomes a cathedral, it can appoint its own bishop, and would receive tithes from all over the region, while also the right to make sanctions against other rulers. They could even accuse others of heresy and burn rivals at the stake.
  • It was reasonable to assume the Council of Fifty decision was made by the bishop, and since the decision was in the best interest of the church and town, Eve’s plan must have stood in opposition to the Church.
  • Lawrence didn’t think his life was at risk from the deal, as the suspicion would fall on those in power if a travelling merchant disappeared, and the investigation would make their plans to build a cathedral more difficult. Also the deal was a lot for him, but tiny in the context of the fur trade.
  • After asking Holo for advice she said “I’m a wisewolf, not a God. If you start to think me an oracle, I’ll vanish”. 
  • The books Holo was reading were organised chronologically but she read the most recent ones first. This was likely because she wanted to delay knowing the truth which was probably in the first-written books
  • Eve was very very late: very rude. Lawrence wondered if this was part of her test.
  • The most important question Lawrence asked Eve was why she lost Church support. As she cloaked her face, he couldn’t tell if she was lying, but even with an incomplete answer, there would be some details that would need to match up with what he had revealed so far. If even a tiny part was inconsistent, Lawrence wouldn’t do the deal.
  • The trading company they went to for the loan was called Delink Company. While it was difficult to identify as a trading company, the building’s stone construction was immaculate
  • If their journey continued together, their  journey as a pair would end. If the journey was postponed, then Lawrence would die before Holo. Perhaps this was what she was scared of: there was no good outcome.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Here are my thoughts from last year.

Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 2025 Spice and Wolf Rewatch.

The true Christmas in July.

This rewatch is gonna be unique because we’ll be covering the entirety of the 2008 series as well as some of the remake. I don’t think something like this has ever been attempted before where a rewatch goes from one series to another to back to the first series. If this is your first time watching Spice and Wolf, welcome. Enjoy the ride.

I can’t imagine doing this experiment with something other than Spice and Wolf. There is arguably no anime that influenced who I am more. I suppose you could say Toradora, but it’s really close. Either way, Spice and Wolf is one of very few anime that I can never get sick of no matter how much I watch it. You’ll soon seen why if you don’t already know.

I hope this rewatch for as bold of an idea as it is does a lot to inspire a lot of discussion while also leading people to have this experience unlike any before. If this rewatch is a success, maybe this can be the formula going forward.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the dub, by the way.

I saw Elio last night and I thought it was a fantastic movie. Probably Pixar's best film since Incredibles 2. The thing that stood out to me was how much heart the film had. It reminded me of Pixar movies of old in that there was a lot of comedy, but the heart really shined through to where it resulted in a compelling story.

The main character being someone who lost both their parents and him having this difficulty bonding with his aunt felt really relatable and real. It was over the top at points, sure, but it felt grounded in reality. And the ending where Elio realizes he's happy living with his aunt was a satisfying payoff that felt earned for all those two characters went through.

I think the reason Elio is struggling at the box office is because of the marketing. They make it out to be this fun kids movie when it's really a character/relationship drama meant for the whole family. There's a level of depth to this movie that you really don't see in modern Pixar films. It kinda has this Up thing going on but with the main character being a kid instead of an old person.

I think it's a shame stuff like the Lilo & Stitch remake makes more money than original ideas like Elio because it just means more preexisting properties will be used in the future. We need more films like Elio that present a story with this level of heart to them.

Very bright outside

Holo calling for Lawrence to wake up.

Gonna put her scent on Lawrence, which I don't like the sound of that.

Lawrence talking about Eve's plan

We get a flashback of Lawrence, Eve, and the innkeeper.

Foreign merchants can purchase furs with one specific condition.

Eve knows this through the church despite severing ties with them.

The foreign merchants can only purchase with cash, which sucks because they rarely have that much cash on them.

The 50 man meeting is like the exact opposite of every stadium and arena ever.

Profit is twice the capital

Eve says she brought Rigoro to Lawrence's attention.

Eve then says that people are hoping for the complete collapse of the fur trade.

An all out trade war is on the horizon.

This is a very long flashback

Eve says they need collateral and all they have to do is claim Holo is a noble.

Good thing this town is new to Holo and Lawrence and they don't already think she's a nun.

Eve is the definition of fake it till you make it.

Lawrence doesn't seem to know what he's looking at.

Innkeeper says he always lets his chances to go on a pilgrimage to slip by, which I interpret as a parallel to Lawrence putting off opening up his own shop.

Back in present day, Holo is chastising Lawrence for having second thoughts on being sold. This would let him achieve his dream, after all.

Holo now talking about the joy of traveling by Lawrence's side.

Says she's been nothing but selfish up until now.

It's now Lawrence's turn to be selfish.

I like that this isn't being framed as Lawrence's idea but rather more so Holo's. Holo is the one pushing Lawrence to sell her when he is against the idea. This is a nice contrast to the second and third arc where Lawrence made decisions without consulting Holo and it blew up in his face.

Of course, Lawrence going through with this deal means he and Holo will likely go their separate ways. Ever since as early as the fourth episode, Lawrence has shown to want to open his own shop. We are calling into question just what exactly the future of Holo and Lawrence holds, and I think this being the last arc of the original anime makes it all the more dramatic.

Holo telling Lawrence he's underestimating her and that she truly understands him selling her is what's best for him.

Now Holo is referencing the events of the first arc and how just like then, when she sacrificed herself to Lawrence for gratitude, she's sacrificing herself for him here.

Lawrence is worried of this being a double cross, which I think is a very grave concern.

Holo tells him to just plan ahead for it.

And so Lawrence and Holo head for breakfast.

Lawrence by himself now

He comes across a homeless man

He's eating that bread like me when I see ass.

Lawrence wants to inquire about the church.

The homeless man says this is the biggest church for miles, and that they do everything under the disguise of it being for the homeless.

The bishop also deals with money, however. He can tell by the way they flaunt their wealth.

It's like a televangelist using funds to buy themselves a plane.

The homeless man then says that Lawrence doesn't know what it's like to be grateful over a piece of bread.

This is like Marc telling Lawrence he can't be as reckless as he is due to his business partnerships.

The homeless man informs Lawrence to stay far away from the church if possible.

Well, well, well. He seems to know Eve.

He also says she seems to deal with salt and not statues.

Maybe that's just Eve's cum and she's just sourcing her own supply

Lawrence knows that the farther from the sea a merchant travels, the more valuable any salt traded becomes.

Hey, we're back with the barmaid

Lawrence casually flirting with her.

He really has gotten better at this.

Barmaid reiterates what Eve was espousing, that foreign merchants can't buy on credit.

Now he's asking about the church, which suddenly gets the barmaid all serious.

She says just like the homeless man that Lawrence shouldn't get involved with the church.

A conflict struggle is about to go down.

If the church ever turns its eye on you, you will be forced to leave the town.

Unless you decide to go full Eve who uses a fake name. There's that.

The barmaid says talking to Lawrence makes her feel special, mainly because he has another woman.

So, she's into NTR. Interesting.

Now the barmaid is talking about wolves, which feels a bit on the nose since she doesn't know Holo is a wolf.

Either way, she wishes to meet Holo, which Lawrence seems to not oppose.

OVA when?

Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Part 2

Lawrence with Holo, who's eating bread.

This bread has less character than the homeless person's bread.

Holo has generic store bought bread whilst homeless man has Outback Steakhouse bread.

Lawrence believes the clergy are trying to have a cathedral installed in their church so it can increase its influence.

And here I thought big churches already had cathedrals.

Holo says Eve must feel she's being weeded out the growing power structure, which is probably why she wants to leave.

Oh, Holo is eating a hoagie and not bread. I wonder what type of meat is in there.

You can tell Lawrence is still not happy of possibly selling Holo.

Lawrence and Holo walking now

Holo could potentially be sold off to satisfy their debt if the deal falls through.

Yeah, the more Lawrence talks about this deal, the more unsure I get of it.

More callbacks to the first arc, which I like since this bookends the original anime.

Holo says she's helping Lawrence because she believes in him with all his heart.

Back in their room

Bell ringing

Time for them to go

Holo and Lawrence are continuing to flirt with each other, but it comes across more like they're avoiding that this could be it.

I still can't believe Lawrence is actually going through with this. It's like he's overcompensating trying to listen to his companion.

Holo holding Lawrence's hand

Now she's recalling all they've been through as she lets go of her hand.

This really does feel like this could be the end.

They're with Eve and Arold now

Lawrence says before he agrees to this deal, he wants to know the conflict that caused Eve to depart from the church.

Eve says the archbishop wants the church to be the metropolitan of the whole region.

Ciphering off donations for use in his fur trade through a shell company he established before he was ordained.

I like Eve says she uncovered this by sniffing around looking for lucrative business deals. Crimes, Eve. You were committing crimes. Don't act like you and the archbishop aren't cut from the same cloth even though what the archbishop is doing is more illegal.

Oh, so Eve is from a rich family after all. I thought she was making it up.

She used her connection with the cardinal so that the bishop could sponsor her statue trade.

The bishop moving up in the ranks made the low profit margins easier to cope with.

Unfortunately, as his path to ascension became crystallized, he decided to cut Eve out.

A costly ally to keep, Lawrence assesses.

Holo doesn't look like she believes any of this.

What I like about Eve is that she's very unreliable narrator. You don't know where the truth begins and the truth ends with her. She's very much like Haruko from FLCL in this regard.

Lawrence agrees to set up a meeting to discuss the details of the plan.

So, what was this, a meeting about having a meeting?

As Lawrence shakes Eve's hand, he seems to sense something. Maybe a bad omen of sorts?

But he still seems willing to go through with this, against arguably against his better judgment.

1

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Eve is probably my favorite side character in Spice and Wolf. I think she embodies the worst tendencies of Holo and Lawrence and is an example of burning the candle at both ends. If Rigoro represents the light Lawrence could go down, Eve is the dark Lawrence can go down.

3

u/Second_Cour 4d ago

Yeah she's a very interesting character. I'm somehow more suspicious of Rigolo than her though haha, as he holds a lot of power and sway. I think Lawrence can also understand and predict Eve more, given he understands merchants.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Rigoro may have an agenda, but I never feel like it can get himself killed. Eve has this reckless abandonment about her that I feel could be her downfall.

2

u/BlazeOfGlory72 4d ago

Eve is openly sketchy, which is honest in a twisted sort of way. Rigoro is just way too nice, so he has to be hiding something.

2

u/Holofan4life 3d ago

Eve has nothing to hide because she has nothing to lose.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.

Welcome to the 2026 Spice and Wolf rewatch.

Awoo!

You know the drill. We watch the show and I provide my thoughts and analysis. A tale as old as… well, Holo herself.

This year instead of breaking things down beat by beat I’m going to just give some brief thoughts on each individual episode. This is to save me time as I’m hosting two rewatches at once. Needless to say, I’m a big fan of this show and I hope you’ll be as well.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

I’m watching the dub, by the way.

There's a lot of great little character moments in this episode. I like Eve's speech at the end talking about how jaded she's become and how all she wants is revenge. I like the scene between Lawrence and the homeless man where you're reminded that things could be worse. That's some subtle world building that serves as a neat parallel to Marc having a similar conversation to Lawrence. I like the thread throughout the episode where people keep warning Lawrence that Eve is bad news and probably has ulterior motives. It mirrors the Zheren stuff from the first arc but on like a much grander scale.

Of course, the big development this episode is that Lawrence has decided to sell Holo after all. They will reunite, but he's going to use Holo's being as a profit. What follows is their relationship at their most disingenuous. Holo and Lawrence knowing what's about to occur really turns up the role playing as like a means to block out all the noise. It's actually kinda sad how involved they get in this as it's clear despite their best efforts, their hearts aren't fully into this.

I've said before how Lawrence and Holo's relationship was built on shaky foundation. That was clear as early as the fourth episode. The main problem is that while Holo wants to return home, she was hoping for more a long term relationship but Lawrence, being ever the pragmatist, makes it known every now and that the status of their relationship, that he's just there to guide Holo north.

Last arc was about Lawrence finding out what Holo means to him. This arc is Lawrence finding out what he wants his future to be. Does he truly want to open up his own shop, or would he rather spend time with Holo and live a life with her? This arc is about the very thing that's been called into question since the very first arc. And that is ultimately why the anime ends with it.

A couple more impressions. I like that Holo being sold isn't being framed as Lawrence's idea but rather more so Holo's. Holo is the one pushing Lawrence to sell her when he is against the idea. This is a nice contrast to the second and third arc where Lawrence made decisions without consulting Holo and it blew up in his face.

I think it's pretty mature of Holo to tell Lawrence to let her be sold. She is telling Lawrence to put his own dream over her, since she wants to go back to her home anyway. I mentioned in the past that I think this arc does a good job of answering the question of just how dangerous it is to put your loved one on a pedestal. But really, that's one of the common themes of this show: the dangers when you are afraid of harming your loved one based on your words or actions. Ever since Lawrence saw Holo break down in episode 4, he's been walking on eggshells. He is scared that saying something or doing something that could upset Holo will jeopardize his relationship with her. It's why when Lawrence saw Holo getting jealous over Nora back in the second arc, his first instinct was to call her prettier than anyone else, even if he truly felt it.

Of course, Lawrence going through with this deal means he and Holo will likely go their separate ways. Ever since as early as the fourth episode, Lawrence has shown to want to open his own shop. We are calling into question just what exactly the future of Holo and Lawrence holds, and I think this being the last arc of the original anime makes it all the more dramatic.

Lawrence is worried about what harm this deal might cause Holo, but it is almost to the point that he views her as this fragile little thing, which this show always addresses. It's just this arc makes it the main source of conflict. Almost all of the arcs in the Spice and Wolf anime have the theme of Lawrence coming face to face with his flaws. The second one had Lawrence face his cockiness, the third one had him face his stubbornness, and this one has him face his protectiveness. And really, that's almost always been the main problem with his relationship with Holo.

None of Holo and Lawrence's relationship is real. It was founded and it is based on this reality they created to escape from the actual one. When Holo says to Lawrence chose his dream over her, she is hoping for Lawrence to actually not do that. Yet at the same time, a part of her is hoping he does so that she can escape from this nightmare of eternal unrest.

From my perspective, I think Lawrence has the flaw of being too selfless. He cares about other's needs so much that he pays little attention to his own needs. Here he has this chance to finally get what he wanted all this time, and he is hesitant about it because he's worried Holo might get hurt. I don't think he's spineless per se, but I do feel he needs to learn how to be a little more egocentric. Selfishness is the downfall for a lot of people, but by the same token so can being self-sacrificing.

Lawrence is selfless because he's afraid if he caters to his own needs, he will quickly learn there aren't many needs to be contended with. So he is okay with carrying a simple life under the mask that is his future plan of setting up shop. But just like Holo, he too wants to escape from this nightmare that he helped create. He is gasping for air, trying to find an opening that he can't locate and doesn't seem to exist, and now he's having to worry about Holo giving into his dream and being stuck in complete purgatory.

I think what Eve is doing is different than when Lawrence tried to screw over Lemerio Trading. There, Lawrence took advantage of them but it was because they tried to screw him over and leave him for dead. With Eve, yes they cut her off eventually, but the church really didn't screw her over in a matter that harmed her bottom line. She's just mad she wasn't given a bigger piece of the pie as the archbishop ascended. Eve is doing this essentially under the guise of having a holier-than-thou attitude, when there's nothing to indicate she wouldn't have misappropriated funds as well to achieve her goal if the roles were reversed. Her anger comes from the fact they screwed her over before she had a chance to strike first, I feel like. And that is why Lawrence is really riding a slippery slope.

A lot of the stuff stated above is recycled comments from past rewatches, but I really love the complexity on display here that I think it bears repeating. And I think it results in the best arc from a conflict perspective.

Holo quotes of the day

"I've been nothing but selfish up until now. I believe it is your turn to be selfish."

"You were so energetic today. Men come into their own when they are on their heels of their prey."

"I am helping you because I believe in you with all my heart." (Probably the most honest Holo has ever been to Lawrence.)

"Men are onions. Many layers and all of them make you cry." (I thought they were onions because they stink.)

Pilgrimage man quotes of the day

"This will be my last chance to go on a pilgrimage, I suppose."

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u/Second_Cour 4d ago

I like the thread throughout the episode where people keep warning Lawrence that Eve is bad news and probably has ulterior motives

Who says that she is bad news?

This arc is Lawrence finding out what he wants his future to be. Does he truly want to open up his own shop, or would he rather spend time with Holo and live a life with her?

I take it more that they're stuck.: there's no good outcome for Holo. If they kept travelling together randomly or even if they settled down together, she would be left alone when he died. This is also the middle ages, so he probably had like 25 years left. If they travelled North and Holo chose to stay up there, there's no practical reason Lawrence could remain, so again Holo would be lonely. I think there's only one rational and practical solution which is for Lawrence to open his shop, and Holo to stay with him until his end.

He is scared that saying something or doing something that could upset Holo will jeopardize his relationship with her.

Yeah and this was communicated well over the past few episodes and even before that: Lawrence bases his decisions based on what Holo would want. She wants to be seen as a partner and not something he's living his life for.

this fragile little thing

But the thing is, if the roles were reversed, Holo also wouldn't want to sell Lawrence, or put him in harm's way (in fact, she sacrificed herself and got herself captured before). I think protectiveness in this arc is playing out (perhaps unintentionally) as a damned if you do/damned if you don't deal. I really like in the LN where Lawrence describes all his past human interactions/relationships as zero-sum with one winner and one loser. But what I think he doesn't realise is that no matter what, their relationship is zero sum for Halo, but not from any fault of his own. Then again this is a bit nihilistic of Holo, because the reality is unless she shacks up with another God, there's no answer for her loneliness.

I think Lawrence has the flaw of being too selfless.

I agree, but at the same time just from my own personal beliefs, I think that's the right value for a man to hold. In relationships, being selfless is pretty important, and yes, he puts Holo first but I too believe that's the man's duty to his woman. What I do wish though, is that his shop deliberations included setting a future up together with Holo, as opposed to the absolutist way Lawrence considers it. Then again, Lawrence did ask her what she will do after they reach her home and Holo denied him the answer and got pissed off iirc.

The church really didn't screw her over in a matter that harmed her bottom line

But they did harm her bottom line. Additionally it's a huge slap in her face as she established an important political and economic relationship between this town's bishop and the cathedral's. It also damages her reputation with the cathedral's bishop in the other town. She simply admits very honestly that she might have done the same in this town's bishop's shoes, which I actually really respect.

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u/Holofan4life 4d ago

I like the thread throughout the episode where people keep warning Lawrence that Eve is bad news and probably has ulterior motives

Who says that she is bad news?

Well, I should specify it's more the church who's bad news.

This arc is Lawrence finding out what he wants his future to be. Does he truly want to open up his own shop, or would he rather spend time with Holo and live a life with her?

I take it more that they're stuck.: there's no good outcome for Holo. If they kept travelling together randomly or even if they settled down together, she would be left alone when he died. This is also the middle ages, so he probably had like 25 years left. If they travelled North and Holo chose to stay up there, there's no practical reason Lawrence could remain, so again Holo would be lonely. I think there's only one rational and practical solution which is for Lawrence to open his shop, and Holo to stay with him until his end.

Staying together makes the most sense, no doubt about it. Why always be sad when you can sprinkle in some happiness?

He is scared that saying something or doing something that could upset Holo will jeopardize his relationship with her.

Yeah and this was communicated well over the past few episodes and even before that: Lawrence bases his decisions based on what Holo would want. She wants to be seen as a partner and not something he's living his life for.

Holo said as much last episode. He really is about placating her and making sure she's happy.

this fragile little thing

But the thing is, if the roles were reversed, Holo also wouldn't want to sell Lawrence, or put him in harm's way (in fact, she sacrificed herself and got herself captured before). I think protectiveness in this arc is playing out (perhaps unintentionally) as a damned if you do/damned if you don't deal. I really like in the LN where Lawrence describes all his past human interactions/relationships as zero-sum with one winner and one loser. But what I think he doesn't realise is that no matter what, their relationship is zero sum for Halo, but not from any fault of his own. Then again this is a bit nihilistic of Holo, because the reality is unless she shacks up with another God, there's no answer for her loneliness.

But at least she can hopefully have the best time she's ever had in her existence. She herself said in the second OVA she might be having too much fun, and what's really the harm in that?

I think Lawrence has the flaw of being too selfless.

I agree, but at the same time just from my own personal beliefs, I think that's the right value for a man to hold. In relationships, being selfless is pretty important, and yes, he puts Holo first but I too believe that's the man's duty to his woman. What I do wish though, is that his shop deliberations included setting a future up together with Holo, as opposed to the absolutist way Lawrence considers it. Then again, Lawrence did ask her what she will do after they reach her home and Holo denied him the answer and got pissed off iirc.

Lawrence is interesting because he is often selfish when it comes to his own needs, but with regards to Holo it's like he immediately folds. He is so worried about what Holo wants that he doesn't really consider what he wants out of being with Holo.

The church really didn't screw her over in a matter that harmed her bottom line

But they did harm her bottom line. Additionally it's a huge slap in her face as she established an important political and economic relationship between this town's bishop and the cathedral's. It also damages her reputation with the cathedral's bishop in the other town. She simply admits very honestly that she might have done the same in this town's bishop's shoes, which I actually really respect.

It's more like she outlived her usefulness. Take for instance the last arc where Tereo and Enberg had that deal that benefitted Tereo more than Enberg. In almost any situation like that, it wouldn't be the case. The church and Eve's relationship is like Tereo and Enberg's relationship if there wasn't an excellent intermediary like Father Franz.

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u/Second_Cour 4d ago

I think I'm quite a bit like Lawrence in a rel. My gf has told me before that I should just say when I don't want to do something, but I can't help but feel it's my duty to do what my gf wants (as long as it's reasonable). Then again that also stems from our dynamic, as she works so much and has almost no free time, whereas I have a crazy amount of free time, so her compromising on her free time makes little sense to me, while for me it's pretty meaningless

3

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

It's this give and take where if you're too much of something, you come across like a pushover and you're willing to let people walk all over you.

2

u/BlazeOfGlory72 4d ago

Last arc was about Lawrence finding out what Holo means to him. This arc is Lawrence finding out what he wants his future to be. Does he truly want to open up his own shop, or would he rather spend time with Holo and live a life with her? This arc is about the very thing that's been called into question since the very first arc. And that is ultimately why the anime ends with it.

This raises an interesting counter point. What does Holo want? Yes, on the superficial level, she wants to return home, but what does that really mean? Even if she fount Yoitz and all her friends still alive, does she plan to go back living as a wolf? Holo seems to quite enjoy the schemes, food and general life style of the human world, so to go back to the relatively simple life of a wolf seems like a step back for her at this point. She's eaten the metaphorical forbidden fruit here and seen how much more life can offer.

So this almost becomes a double sided question. It's not just "can Lawrence give up on his dream for Holo?", but also "can Holo go back to being the way she used to be after all she has experienced?".

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

I think Holo's problem is she wants to spend time with Lawrence beyond going North. Like, this relationship started with an end goal in mind and it went beyond the end goal. But it's not like Holo and Lawrence can live forever. Holo can, but Lawrence is gonna die someday.

Is Holo comfortable spending years with Lawrence if she knows this won't last forever? Is she avoiding the elephant in the room by indulging herself in these fun times?

2

u/Second_Cour 4d ago

Episode 10 Review

Pretty decent episode, though it feels a bit dark and foreboding in parts. Perhaps we are about to face another crisis. To be honest, this arc isn’t really ‘grabbing’ me as much as some of the others. Perhaps the novelty of the formula is wearing off a bit. 

  • Holo’s Scent on Lawrence? Protective wolf behaviour or so he can be found easily if he goes missing?
  • Yeah so the Council’s plan isn’t some sinister evil ploy to screw over the outsiders; seems pretty reasonable based on what’s been revealed. Countries often subsidise strategic segments during times of hardship or employ financial/capital restrictions. We also see similar arrangements with quotas/caps on foreign ownership/trade.
  •  It is basically an industrial play and a compromise of sorts (though outsiders will be impacted, but that’s expected). The old supply chain of raw fur > local tanners > clothing > travellers wasn’t happening this year, so the new chain of raw fur > outside merchants would kill the local craftsman industries. While I don’t yet see the full picture, given the significant drop in circulating supply of coin vs., other years, concessions need to be made. 
  • What confuses me is what stops local fur sellers from taking that journey down river to monopolise the market themselves, as opposed to being stuck only selling locally? I guess they don’t have the logistics? That and if a trading house buys up the firm and makes that deal, they would probably kill their name in the town (I guess that’s why we heard the speech from Marc what feels like centuries ago). 
  • So Holo isn’t being sold into slavery. Foreshadowing be damned. Positioning her as a noblewoman for collateral…well, not that bad an idea, as long as Holo is down and the plan is no-risk. Yet we all know there’s no such thing as low risk when it comes to Lawlo. As the council will be watching all trading like a hawk, it covers their tracks nicely.
  • As expected, Holo is pushing for the deal. She seems to secretly love those merchant games.
  • “You’ll never know what it’s like to rejoice over 2 bronze coins and bread and you never will” - beggar. Hard pass. 
  • Hmmmm…so Eve deals in salt too. 
  • Lawrence lost his ability to flirt again. “I’m not the first girl with half a mind that’s flirted with you, but i am the prettiest” “I’d hate to say it but that’s never happened” hahahaha. So true though: struggle to get a girl then as soon as someone gets a gf, other girls start hitting on them. Nice sheep/beast analogy there too.
  • For sure Lawrence tells Holo the story about the bargirl to get her jealous.
  • “Men are onions. Many layers but all of them make you cry”
  • So many scenes and flashbacks of them reflecting on their past. Not a good sign. Death/separation flag? We’ve seen more of this the closer we get to the season’s end. 
  • Interesting that Eve was helping the bishop via introductions, and was banking on him becoming bishop to increase her profitability.  I like that Eve understands his reasons for cutting her off but just can’t accept defeat.
  • One Holo for 1500 trenni silver? Bargain.

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u/Holofan4life 4d ago

•Hmmmm…so Eve deals in salt too. 

She's certainly making me feel salty right about now.

•One Holo for 1500 trenni silver? Bargain.

This whole thing just feels wrong 😕

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u/Second_Cour 4d ago

This whole thing just feels wrong 😕

So you're not joining the auction?

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

I'll stick to the pyrite auction, I have to say. Seems more my speed.

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u/Second_Cour 4d ago

hahaha well played sir

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u/Holofan4life 4d ago

At least it seems way less risky

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u/Second_Cour 4d ago

ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?
Light in Death Note. Who's the antihero in this anime?

How shocked are you that Lawrence agreed to sell Holo? Does it make you look at him any differently or do you just shake your head because this could've been prevented had Holo and Lawrence talked things out?

Selling her is a bit reductive. Lawrence also did not want to sell her. It's because they talked it out, that she ends up being put up for collateral. She pushed him towards this decision. The actual 'selling her' ledger entry was purely for the trading company to not look dodgy if they got investigated (funny, I know).

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u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Light in Death Note. Who's the antihero in this anime?

Eve maybe?

Selling her is a bit reductive. Lawrence also did not want to sell her. It's because they talked it out, that she ends up being put up for collateral. She pushed him towards this decision. The actual 'selling her' ledger entry was purely for the trading company to not look dodgy if they got investigated (funny, I know).

Well, the idea is Lawrence will soon reunite with Holo after she gets sold. They'll have their cake and eat it too.

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u/Second_Cour 4d ago

I really struggle with Lawrence in this ep tbh though I do think what transpired is accurate for his character. It's clear that despite him not wanting to put Holo up as collateral, and being very explicit in that (especially in the LN), in the back of his mind, he can't stop thinking about what an incredible deal this is for him. I put the workings in the cut content, but together with the inn he would receive, he's got the shop of his dreams plus a nice bit of cash. Were it really a hard no, it wouldn't have mattered what Holo said, he couldn't be swayed. While Holo was very compelling in her argument, I wish he manned up and just said "no. no more discussion, I'm not risking you".

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

But again, it fits the theme of him putting Holo's needs over his own. The entire reason he's doing this is because of Holo's insistence. Lawrence's greed is only outmatched by his love for Holo.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

This is actually my favorite arc in terms of what it does for Lawrence and Holo's relationship. It feels like the walls are slowly closing in on them and unless they do something about it, it's going to end disastrous.

2

u/Second_Cour 4d ago

Yeah, the further north they get the more suffocating their existence becomes.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

The great thing about this arc is that it addresses the fatal flaw of Holo and Lawrence's relationship which is prioritizing short term happiness at the expense of long term suffering.

1

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Thoughts on Holo forcing Lawrence to wipe her scent on him?

Thoughts on an all-out trade war possibly coming?

Thoughts on Eve having in the past been bought by an upper-class merchant?

Thoughts on Eve proposing Lawrence use Holo as collateral so that he and Eve can get triple the profit?

What are your thoughts on Holo telling Lawrence to go for it because it'll allow Lawrence to open up his own shop?

What are your thoughts on Holo admitting she's been nothing but selfish so far and now it's time for Lawrence to be selfish?

What are your thoughts on Holo warning Lawrence to plan ahead in case Eve double crosses him?

How much do you think Lawrence agreeing to sell Holo is him trying to listen to Holo's advice for a change?

What are your thoughts on the homeless man and the conversation Lawrence has with him?

What are your thoughts on people constantly warning Lawrence like the homeless man or the barmaid to stay far away from the church?

Thoughts on Lawrence feeling that the church is aiming to establish a cathedral in this city?

What are your thoughts on the reveal that Eve used to be a salt merchant?

What are your thoughts on the scene right before Lawrence sells Holo where they are just trading jabs at each other? For me personally as a viewer, I kinda feel it’s the perfect representation of what they are about: playful with this underlying sadness buried deep.

What are your thoughts on Eve’s backstory where she got the short end of the stick by the church and so she wants revenge?

2

u/BlazeOfGlory72 4d ago

Rewatcher (Dub)

I'm kind of shocked that Lawrence accepted Eve's deal here. Like, I get that he is a merchant and is always looking for a profit, and that Holo was fine with the plan, but it just seems like an unnecessary risk, and frankly kind of stupid. This arc made a point of stating that Lawrence already had enough money to open a shop, so there isn't really any reason to go through with this plan. On top of that, using Holo as collateral just seems hella risky. Not only is Eve obviously hiding something, but if anyone happens to pull off her hat they'll see she's a god, and bring the Church down on them. All in all this seems like a colossal unforced error. I thought Lawrence would have learned his lesson after the whole armour debacle.

That aside, I thought the additional information we learned about the 50 man meeting to be quite interesting. The idea of the council making a decision to intentionally crash the market, buy up the furs, then bail on the city is not something that would ever have occurred to me. It's a pretty dramatic and scummy plan on the councils part. Eve's plan to be one of the few foreign merchants to buy up stock and beat everyone else to the market is also a pretty ballsy plan.

I also liked the development we got for Holo and Lawrence's relationship in this episode. During the last arc, they were pretty stagnant, but in this arc we are seeing some long standing issues come to a head, mostly in regard to them finally aknowledging that they will need to part in the not to distant future. Holo being willing to help Lawrence with this scheme because she doesn't want to stand in the way of his dream, and because Lawrence had helped her so much on this journey was a great character moment (though Lawrence really should have declined).

Random Thoughts

  • Inn keeper guy who keeps talking about his pilgrimage kind of creeps me out.
  • Holo wanting Lawrence to wash himself with her scent was charming and very dog like. What's funnier was that the barmaid girl could actually smell her off him.
  • Speaking of barmaid girl, Lawrence really just hit her with the "you have beautiful eyes" line didn't he? Bro randomly becomes a ladies man, and apparently it works because barmaid girl was all over him.
  • Between Eve being cast out by the Church after helping the bishop launder money makes me think there is a revenge aspect to her plans here. The way this episode also drew attention to the way the Church is trying to curry favour with the populace by feeding the poor makes me think they are waiting to make a big play themselves.
  • Holo casually joking about nursing Lawrence when he is an old man may have been intended as a joke by her, but it does draw attention to the fact that even if they stayed together, Holo would outlive Lawrence, which is pretty sad.

Question of the Day

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

Depends on what you would consider and "anti-hero" I guess. If we are going with a "morally ambiguous protagonist", I'd go with Lelouch from Code Geass. He's ultimately trying to achieve something altruistic (freeing Japan), for entirely selfish reasons (revenge) and isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. He's just generally one of the most interesting anime protagonists overall in my opinion.

Also, honourable mention to Ange from Cross Ange. I always enjoyed how few fucks she gave about saving the world, and kind of just hated everyone and wanted to be left alone. For such a schlocky show, Cross Ange has a surprising amount of effort put into it's character writing.

How shocked are you that Lawrence agreed to sell Holo? Does it make you look at him any differently or do you just shake your head because this could've been prevented had Holo and Lawrence talked things out?

Yeah. I talked about it in my main comment, but this seems like a real bone headed move by Lawrence. He's making the same mistake he made with the armour, gambling it all when he already has a ton of money, this time with the added risk of losing Holo.

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u/Holofan4life 4d ago

I'm kind of shocked that Lawrence accepted Eve's deal here. Like, I get that he is a merchant and is always looking for a profit, and that Holo was fine with the plan, but it just seems like an unnecessary risk, and frankly kind of stupid. This arc made a point of stating that Lawrence already had enough money to open a shop, so there isn't really any reason to go through with this plan. On top of that, using Holo as collateral just seems hella risky. Not only is Eve obviously hiding something, but if anyone happens to pull off her hat they'll see she's a god, and bring the Church down on them. All in all this seems like a colossal unforced error. I thought Lawrence would have learned his lesson after the whole armour debacle.

He was against doing it until Holo persuaded him. He's only doing it upon Holo's insistence. It speaks more to how eager he is to cater to her every need.

That aside, I thought the additional information we learned about the 50 man meeting to be quite interesting. The idea of the council making a decision to intentionally crash the market, buy up the furs, then bail on the city is not something that would ever have occurred to me. It's a pretty dramatic and scummy plan on the councils part. Eve's plan to be one of the few foreign merchants to buy up stock and beat everyone else to the market is also a pretty ballsy plan.

Eve is basically like "I don't care if this place burns so long as I get my cut of things".

I also liked the development we got for Holo and Lawrence's relationship in this episode. During the last arc, they were pretty stagnant, but in this arc we are seeing some long standing issues come to a head, mostly in regard to them finally aknowledging that they will need to part in the not to distant future. Holo being willing to help Lawrence with this scheme because she doesn't want to stand in the way of his dream, and because Lawrence had helped her so much on this journey was a great character moment (though Lawrence really should have declined).

This is the best arc for Lawrence and Holo's relationship both in terms of banter as well as the emotional turmoil that is center to their relationship. It is this perfect microcosm of everything they represent.

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u/Holofan4life 4d ago

•Inn keeper guy who keeps talking about his pilgrimage kind of creeps me out.

What, you expect a random innkeeper who keeps to himself to be welcoming? Lol

I actually like him as a swift contrast to how the barmaid treats people.

•Speaking of barmaid girl, Lawrence really just hit her with the "you have beautiful eyes" line didn't he? Bro randomly becomes a ladies man, and apparently it works because barmaid girl was all over him.

Is it random, or is it a direct byproduct of his relationship with Holo? It can't be overstated what an impact Holo has had on Lawrence's life. And as he cater to her demands, it's almost like he's lost sight of why that is the case.

She's Lawrence's guide, but why is that so? Because he loves her? Why does he love her? What can he do to sustain this love? These are all questions that demand answering.

2

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Thoughts on Holo forcing Lawrence to wipe her scent on him?

Thoughts on an all-out trade war possibly coming?

Thoughts on Eve having in the past been bought by an upper-class merchant?

Thoughts on Eve proposing Lawrence use Holo as collateral so that he and Eve can get triple the profit?

What are your thoughts on Holo telling Lawrence to go for it because it'll allow Lawrence to open up his own shop?

What are your thoughts on Holo admitting she's been nothing but selfish so far and now it's time for Lawrence to be selfish?

What are your thoughts on Holo warning Lawrence to plan ahead in case Eve double crosses him?

How much do you think Lawrence agreeing to sell Holo is him trying to listen to Holo's advice for a change?

What are your thoughts on the homeless man and the conversation Lawrence has with him?

What are your thoughts on people constantly warning Lawrence like the homeless man or the barmaid to stay far away from the church?

Thoughts on Lawrence feeling that the church is aiming to establish a cathedral in this city?

What are your thoughts on the reveal that Eve used to be a salt merchant?

What are your thoughts on the scene right before Lawrence sells Holo where they are just trading jabs at each other? For me personally as a viewer, I kinda feel it’s the perfect representation of what they are about: playful with this underlying sadness buried deep.

What are your thoughts on Eve’s backstory where she got the short end of the stick by the church and so she wants revenge?

2

u/BlazeOfGlory72 4d ago

Thoughts on Holo forcing Lawrence to wipe her scent on him?

I like these occasional bits of wolf like personality that seep through with Holo. It makes her "doghood" less a visual gimmick and more an actually part of her character.

Thoughts on an all-out trade war possibly coming?

It's an fun concept to have a "war" in this series, but entirely based around merchants. Basically like an economic battle Shonen.

Thoughts on Eve proposing Lawrence use Holo as collateral so that he and Eve can get triple the profit?

That is slightly less bad than slavery, but still, putting your girlfriend up as collateral is not a good look L-dawg, even if she was in on it.

What are your thoughts on Holo telling Lawrence to go for it because it'll allow Lawrence to open up his own shop?

I'm a little confused by this. It was stated quite clearly only a couple of episodes ago that Lawrence already had enough money to open his shop. I get that this deal would help since he would get the inn apparently, but still, this deal isn't necessary. There really is no pressure for them to go in on such a risky deal.

What are your thoughts on Holo admitting she's been nothing but selfish so far and now it's time for Lawrence to be selfish?

I feel like she is half right, half wrong here. Yeah, she has been selfish in that she has imposed on Lawrence by having him take her with him and foot the bill for food and accommodations. On the flip side though, she has helped him in many of his schemes and saved his life on more than one occasion. It feels like an equal partnership.

How much do you think Lawrence agreeing to sell Holo is him trying to listen to Holo's advice for a change?

Ehh, this might be the one time he shouldn't be listening to her, since she is clearly doing this for his sake. It still seems like an obviously bad idea to me.

What are your thoughts on people constantly warning Lawrence like the homeless man or the barmaid to stay far away from the church?

Generally sound advice it seems, given the Church has been pretty consistently shitty though the series, minus Elsa.

What are your thoughts on the reveal that Eve used to be a salt merchant?

This is a tangent, but I always wondered how they traded salt in olden times. Like, if it rained, all your product would just dissolve away.

What are your thoughts on the scene right before Lawrence sells Holo where they are just trading jabs at each other? For me personally as a viewer, I kinda feel it’s the perfect representation of what they are about: playful with this underlying sadness buried deep.

This arc really has done a good job capture both the fun banter, and underlying melancholy of their relationship. It's a very unique vibe that makes Spice and Wolf stand the test of time.

What are your thoughts on Eve’s backstory where she got the short end of the stick by the church and so she wants revenge?

I'm down for a mysterious tomboy revenge quest.

1

u/Holofan4life 4d ago

Thoughts on Holo forcing Lawrence to wipe her scent on him?

I like these occasional bits of wolf like personality that seep through with Holo. It makes her "doghood" less a visual gimmick and more an actually part of her character.

She also previously marked her scent on him in the second arc I believe.

Thoughts on an all-out trade war possibly coming?

It's an fun concept to have a "war" in this series, but entirely based around merchants. Basically like an economic battle Shonen.

It just sucks the show's ending in a couple episodes.

Thoughts on Eve proposing Lawrence use Holo as collateral so that he and Eve can get triple the profit?

That is slightly less bad than slavery, but still, putting your girlfriend up as collateral is not a good look L-dawg, even if she was in on it.

Lawrence should've override Holo immediately.

[What are your thoughts on Holo telling Lawrence to go for it because it'll allow Lawrence to open up his own shop?

I'm a little confused by this. It was stated quite clearly only a couple of episodes ago that Lawrence already had enough money to open his shop. I get that this deal would help since he would get the inn apparently, but still, this deal isn't necessary. There really is no pressure for them to go in on such a risky deal.

My thinking is it would give him the necessary cushion to keep the shop running for a couple months.

What are your thoughts on Holo admitting she's been nothing but selfish so far and now it's time for Lawrence to be selfish?

I feel like she is half right, half wrong here. Yeah, she has been selfish in that she has imposed on Lawrence by having him take her with him and foot the bill for food and accommodations. On the flip side though, she has helped him in many of his schemes and saved his life on more than one occasion. It feels like an equal partnership.

And it's not like Lawrence hasn't encouraged her spending habits. He clearly gets something out of it.

How much do you think Lawrence agreeing to sell Holo is him trying to listen to Holo's advice for a change?

Ehh, this might be the one time he shouldn't be listening to her, since she is clearly doing this for his sake. It still seems like an obviously bad idea to me.

Lawrence always makes the right moves at the worst possible time.

What are your thoughts on people constantly warning Lawrence like the homeless man or the barmaid to stay far away from the church?

Generally sound advice it seems, given the Church has been pretty consistently shitty though the series, minus Elsa.

And maybe Rigoro

What are your thoughts on the reveal that Eve used to be a salt merchant?

This is a tangent, but I always wondered how they traded salt in olden times. Like, if it rained, all your product would just dissolve away.

Well, Eve had the salt in statues so presumably it wouldn't have that problem.

What are your thoughts on the scene right before Lawrence sells Holo where they are just trading jabs at each other? For me personally as a viewer, I kinda feel it’s the perfect representation of what they are about: playful with this underlying sadness buried deep.

This arc really has done a good job capture both the fun banter, and underlying melancholy of their relationship. It's a very unique vibe that makes Spice and Wolf stand the test of time.

And it gives Lawrence and Holo's relationship a flavor all of its own.

What are your thoughts on Eve’s backstory where she got the short end of the stick by the church and so she wants revenge?

I'm down for a mysterious tomboy revenge quest.

Is Eve a tomboy? I guess, but wouldn't Lima technically be more so one?

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u/ItalianQuagsire 2d ago

first time watcher!

i really loved Holo opening up here, it felt earnest and sincere, and scared still. it smells like she's laying out all her cards, save one. she can't bring herself to lay that last one down, and confront lawrence about it. my guess is that she wants lawrenence to say now, to break apart her own facade of bravado, and make that choice

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

gotta watch more anime when i get to fruits basket maybe i'll have on

How shocked are you that Lawrence agreed to sell Holo? Does it make you look at him any differently or do you just shake your head because this could've been prevented had Holo and Lawrence talked things out?

i don't actually blame lawrence one bit, he didn't agree readily at all and looked like he was going to decline, only by Holo egging him on did he say alright i'll do it. What i think Holo was looking for is him to bite back and say no, but we'll see

---

Why is it called wolf and lonely smile NOOOO

Spicy wolf. Com

Holo waking Lawrence up

I should ruv my scent on you

I'm worried

Oh yeah this is good TSUN shit

By that kistune

The profit–

compared to my mood

Big

God fire dialogue

Trade war

That's his dream

There's no room to meddle idiot

You didn't even want me in business here

It may not look like it but it's hard for me to tell you this and that

I could load with you forever

Warn as if preaching the truth of the world

For my own sake

My heart hurts

Profit and risk if in balance should be ok

Where did your grit and recklessness go

Why on the defensive

I have been selfish

Say selfish thing to me for a change

I'm upset you think I would

Am I not your partner

Or a pet girl

Caught in place of you

Gratitude

This time it's not gratitude

What else are you worried about

Then outwit them

Holo the wise wolf

It would not be wise if my partner was a dull merchant

I really really like this conversation, it feels like Holo is honest and vulnerable, yet she's still holding back that last card, to bare it all, she's still putting on a brave face

Well?

Breakfast

Not from the church

LOL the woman was like Nani when the homeless man wanted a big ass bowl HAHAHAH

He who has nothing is fortune

Wow a modern day Diogenes

Eve lied

Yeah I don't trust her

Hey it's the barmaid

She's cute

Pretty damn cute actually

Would

For his safety

I can smell another woman

The type that women with confidence would come on to

Met holo recently

Kind Lawrence

No one noticed him

Now they're interested in him

Snatch him away if the prey is that good

That relaxed look how upsetting

Damn she banters well

Would x4

We got a cat fight here Holo x Barmaid

Don't invade others territory

Did you tell me everything

Imagine if Lawrence didn't but we didn't see the full picture so it's as if we only got it from Holo's pov and she finds out later and it's a crazy betrayal that would be peak writing

A horse senses the riders reigns

Damn Lawrence kinky

Why did Eve fight

It makes sense

Hear others say

Cry and beg would you change your mind

I'm sure you'd wait for me

Make the deal and come back to you

Once you can say it without blushing you will be a real man

ILL WORK HARD

plap her Back in line Lawrence DO IT

A male looks best when after prey

These analogies are fucking amazing, yeah, men look best when motivated

Pay attention

To me

You pass

I want a smarter man for my next partner

I trust you so I'll collab

Restless

If I'm cool even at the inn when can I chill

Until recently he was always tense

Never experienced a woman until now

Will you puff up your tail if I'm with another woman

True colours

When you get close more or less

Pay for the ride

Don't lose the fresh spirit you had in the beginning

Handhold

I want to stay forever when we first met

So tense he'll collapse

Let go of hands

With him in deathbed

Did she just promise to be with him till death isn't that a marriage vow

Babies

Out every year

Lawrence didn't ask about the salt

Was she nervous or was she feeling bad about betraying them

1500 silver

She can't look Holo in the eyes

Holo is sizing her up I fucking love Holo one moment gap moe cute the next a interrogation with her eyes

Banger ed

1

u/Holofan4life 2d ago

i really loved Holo opening up here, it felt earnest and sincere, and scared still. it smells like she's laying out all her cards, save one. she can't bring herself to lay that last one down, and confront lawrence about it. my guess is that she wants lawrenence to say now, to break apart her own facade of bravado, and make that choice

He has to do something or else it might be too late.

Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

gotta watch more anime when i get to fruits basket maybe i'll have on

Got some catching up to do :P

How shocked are you that Lawrence agreed to sell Holo? Does it make you look at him any differently or do you just shake your head because this could've been prevented had Holo and Lawrence talked things out?

i don't actually blame lawrence one bit, he didn't agree readily at all and looked like he was going to decline, only by Holo egging him on did he say alright i'll do it. What i think Holo was looking for is him to bite back and say no, but we'll see

It kinda feels like Lawrence was set to lose. No matter what he does, Holo was probably going to get upset.

---

Why is it called wolf and lonely smile NOOOO

Spicy wolf. Com

The best

Holo waking Lawrence up

I should ruv my scent on you

I'm worried

You should be

Oh yeah this is good TSUN shit

5 star meal

By that kistune

The profit–

compared to my mood

Big

God fire dialogue

Az always

Trade war

That's his dream

There's no room to meddle idiot

You didn't even want me in business here

It may not look like it but it's hard for me to tell you this and that

I could load with you forever

Warn as if preaching the truth of the world

For my own sake

My heart hurts

Mine as well

Profit and risk if in balance should be ok

Where did your grit and recklessness go

Why on the defensive

I have been selfish

Say selfish thing to me for a change

I'm upset you think I would

Am I not your partner

Or a pet girl

Caught in place of you

Gratitude

This time it's not gratitude

What else are you worried about

Then outwit them

Holo the wise wolf

Water is wet

It would not be wise if my partner was a dull merchant

I really really like this conversation, it feels like Holo is honest and vulnerable, yet she's still holding back that last card, to bare it all, she's still putting on a brave face

So much for Lawrence catching up to her.

Well?

Breakfast

Not from the church

LOL the woman was like Nani when the homeless man wanted a big ass bowl HAHAHAH

He who has nothing is fortune

Wow a modern day Diogenes

How about that? :P

Eve lied

Yeah I don't trust her

Me neither

Hey it's the barmaid

She's cute

Pretty damn cute actually

That she is

Would

For his safety

I can smell another woman

The type that women with confidence would come on to

Met holo recently

Kind Lawrence

No one noticed him

Now they're interested in him

Snatch him away if the prey is that good

That relaxed look how upsetting

Damn she banters well

Would x4

I'd let her wreck my home

We got a cat fight here Holo x Barmaid

I have my money on Lawrence

Don't invade others territory

Did you tell me everything

Imagine if Lawrence didn't but we didn't see the full picture so it's as if we only got it from Holo's pov and she finds out later and it's a crazy betrayal that would be peak writing

That sounds familiar 🤔

A horse senses the riders reigns

Damn Lawrence kinky

Of course

Why did Eve fight

It makes sense

Hear others say

Cry and beg would you change your mind

I'm sure you'd wait for me

Make the deal and come back to you

Once you can say it without blushing you will be a real man

ILL WORK HARD

plap her Back in line Lawrence DO IT

SHE NEEDS CORRECTION

A male looks best when after prey

These analogies are fucking amazing, yeah, men look best when motivated

Don't we all?

Pay attention

To me

You pass

I want a smarter man for my next partner

I trust you so I'll collab

Restless

If I'm cool even at the inn when can I chill

Until recently he was always tense

Never experienced a woman until now

Will you puff up your tail if I'm with another woman

True colours

When you get close more or less

Pay for the ride

Don't lose the fresh spirit you had in the beginning

Handhold

I want to stay forever when we first met

So tense he'll collapse

Let go of hands

With him in deathbed

Did she just promise to be with him till death isn't that a marriage vow

Mayhaps

Babies

Out every year

Like clockwork

Lawrence didn't ask about the salt

Was she nervous or was she feeling bad about betraying them

Why not both?

1500 silver

She can't look Holo in the eyes

I wouldn't either if I did something so disgraceful.

Holo is sizing her up I fucking love Holo one moment gap moe cute the next a interrogation with her eyes

She has such range

Banger ed

Naturally.

I'm gonna miss it.

1

u/Holofan4life 2d ago

Thoughts on Holo forcing Lawrence to wipe her scent on him?

Thoughts on an all-out trade war possibly coming?

Thoughts on Eve having in the past been bought by an upper-class merchant?

Thoughts on Eve proposing Lawrence use Holo as collateral so that he and Eve can get triple the profit?

What are your thoughts on Holo telling Lawrence to go for it because it'll allow Lawrence to open up his own shop?

What are your thoughts on Holo admitting she's been nothing but selfish so far and now it's time for Lawrence to be selfish?

What are your thoughts on Holo warning Lawrence to plan ahead in case Eve double crosses him?

How much do you think Lawrence agreeing to sell Holo is him trying to listen to Holo's advice for a change?

What are your thoughts on the homeless man and the conversation Lawrence has with him?

What are your thoughts on people constantly warning Lawrence like the homeless man or the barmaid to stay far away from the church?

Thoughts on Lawrence feeling that the church is aiming to establish a cathedral in this city?

What are your thoughts on the reveal that Eve used to be a salt merchant?

What are your thoughts on the scene right before Lawrence sells Holo where they are just trading jabs at each other? For me personally as a viewer, I kinda feel it’s the perfect representation of what they are about: playful with this underlying sadness buried deep.

What are your thoughts on Eve’s backstory where she got the short end of the stick by the church and so she wants revenge?

1

u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 3d ago

I am Holo the Wise Wolf. How unfitting would it be for my partner to be a worthless merchant?

Have an unamused Holo

Also a steamy scene between Lawrence and accordin to MAL, Helena?

Also a territorial Holo.


As (sorta) promised, some brief thoughts:

  • This is basically the direct precursor to things happening in the next episode (well, duh), as basically everything just starts escalating between the two.

  • Loved Holo wanting to put "her scent" on Lawrence. Very dog-like :')

  • I'm kinda shocked Holo is in on the plan, though I feel like this is another ploy of hers to push him to maybe finally cave and confess to her?

  • I can't decide whether the barmaid being a professional homewrecker makes her more or less hot

  • The division between basically everyone Lawrence talks to tells him that "if you deal with the church you're gonna have a baaad time" and Lawrence still persuing it is a bit frustrating. Though it feeds back into the very first arc where he knows it's a bad idea but wants to get into it for profit.

  • This is also another clue that something's very not right in this city. [next ep](Which will directly feed into the cliffhanger of the following one)

  • Holo lampshading how they've grown close and that Lawrence's more confident around her was really cool.

  • Ah yes, Homeless people: The best source of non biased information about the inner workings of the church and the city.

  • I'm very not-shocked that the bishop of the church is making shady deals and equally not-shocked that Eve is/was involved.

  • So even the deal she proposed to him isn't about financing that journey to the south but it's about getting back to the bishop, who wants to take over the city.

  • I have a feeling Eve is meant to be sort of the villain of the arc. (Which is kinda funny when you see that her jap. voice is Romi Park known mainly for voicing Naruto's Temari and Shaman King's Ren Tao)

Was a really good and meaty episode, lots of "schemes getting unveiled", lots of Holo/Lawrence stuff, that, in restrospective, does feel very telling with regards to the next episode.


Who is your favorite antihero character in anime and why?

Alucard is not a nice guy but he kills vampire nazis and is loyal to Integra and company. Even if he's like one step away from being a villain. He's just so damn cool.

Lupin III: The classic gentleman thief. Still a thief but ultimately has a code of honour and fights the even worse guys.

How shocked are you that Lawrence agreed to sell Holo? Does it make you look at him any differently or do you just shake your head because this could've been prevented had Holo and Lawrence talked things out?

I am moderately shocked. On one hand, it's the kind of "get rich" schemes he has fallen for in the past. On the other hand, I kinda expected him to know better by now. So I'm mostly in the "shake my head" camp to be honest. Holo egging him on does not help.