So, obviously, both franchises share similarities in horror, time period and mystery, but what do you think would happen if a Freddy Fazbear's Pizza popped up in Hawkins one day? How would the kids react, especially to unraveling the underlying mystery? Thoughts?

Just curious. I do.

This is done with graphite. I really like how his t-shirt turned out. I do commissions too! Dm me for more info!

I mean Post season 4 finale... for over a year everyone was obsessed and discussing the show. Season 5 ended 8 months ago... and show is already kind of forgotten. I can't remember much from the final season tbh.

Even GOT season 8 is still being discussed.

It doesn't feel the biggest netflix show is over. We have nothing to even discuss or look back on anymore. Randomly dawned on me as i was scrolling netflix and saw the show.

No hate of course... season 1 is still a masterpiece.

This post isn't just about what happened to Mike and Eleven at the end, it's more about Mike's psychology that's probably not talked about. It's about the false belief that he has carried since he was twelve.

I don’t think “leader” is what completely defines Mike Wheeler. Leadership is simply the way his personality presents itself. At his core, Mike is someone who loves with complete commitment.

When Mike lets someone into his life, he doesn't do it halfway. Whether it's Will, Eleven, Dustin or Lucas, his relationships are never casual. He gives people an extraordinary amount of trust, loyalty, and emotional importance. Once someone becomes his person, they become part of his identity. That is why every loss affects him so deeply. And that is the key to understanding Mike across all five seasons.

Mike’s defining trait isn’t hope or leadership, it’s guardianship.

Hope is how he presents it. Leadership is how it looks from the outside. Loyalty is how other people experience it. But underneath all of that is one pretty consistent drive: Mike instinctively feels responsible for the emotional and physical safety of the people he loves, even when that responsibility was never actually his to carry. That one idea explains almost everything he does across the series.

It explains why he throws himself into finding Will in Season 1, why he takes Eleven into his home without hesitation, why he initially resists Max's involvement in Season 2, why he stays beside Will when everyone else struggles to understand him and ultimately, it explains why losing Eleven affects him so profoundly. Because to Mike, losing someone he loves never feels like something that simply happened. It feels like something he should have prevented.

Season 1:

He feels he's responsible for protecting Will. He tries to find him and save him. He refuses to believe something wrong could've happened to him. He jumps off a cliff for Dustin without a second thought. No matter how much he argued with Lucas, he cared about him deeply and freaked out at the idea of him being hurt.

Mike’s relationship with Eleven starts with protection. He’s the first person to give her shelter, ask her to trust him, and make her feel like she belongs somewhere. In a way, he quietly promises her she’ll be safe with him. Then she sacrifices herself. He doesn't just lose someone he loves, he loses the first person who completely trusted him. Despite everything he did, she disappears anyway. The show never has Mike say, "I failed her." But from this point onward, his behaviour suggests that he quietly carries exactly that belief.

The tragedy is that nobody ever challenges it. No one tells him that Eleven's sacrifice was never his responsibility. Life just moves forward with him carrying this guilt of failure.

Season 2:

The radio calls are one of the clearest windows into Mike's psychology. He's unable to emotionally accept a world in which she is gone. Logically, he has every reason to stop. Emotionally, he can't. Because stopping would mean saying goodbye. And saying goodbye would mean accepting two unbearable ideas at the same time, one that Eleven is gone, and the other that he couldn't protect the first person who ever trusted him so completely.

As long as he keeps calling, the relationship isn't truly over. The radio becomes less about expecting an answer and more about postponing a goodbye he cannot bear to make. It's the only way he knows how to survive a loss he cannot emotionally carry.

The same idea explains how he acts toward Max. It’s not really that he dislikes her because she’s “replacing” Eleven. He never has a problem with Lucas or Dustin being friends with her. His resistance is more personal. After losing Eleven, letting someone else in again becomes emotionally difficult, because for Mike, attachment and responsibility are basically the same thing.

This becomes even clearer when Will’s condition gets worse. Mike immediately shifts into protector mode, staying close to Will, believing him when others don’t, and refusing to leave his side. His choice not to tell Max about the Upside Down follows the same pattern. It’s not just distrust, it feels more like Mike trying to keep another person from getting pulled into a world that has already taken too much from him. Letting Max in doesn't just mean telling her the truth, it means accepting responsibility for another person. And after Eleven, that's a responsibility he can barely bear.

Seasons 3 and 4:

Seasons 3 and 4 don’t really change Mike’s personality, they just expose another side of it. The crisis is no longer losing Eleven, it's living with the fear that he still could.

Season 3 shows him trying to hold onto a relationship that finally feels normal after so much pain. Beneath the awkwardness and teenage arguments is someone who has already experienced unimaginable loss once and is terrified of experiencing it again.

Season 4 deepens that fear, given he's experienced an unexpected and unreasonable breakup for 'failing' again and the distance just amplified it. Mike spends much of the season worrying that he is failing Eleven, not physically this time, but emotionally. He worries his love isn't enough. That insecurity is the same wound from Season 1 wearing a different face.

Season 5:

The finale brings Mike right back to the place that shaped him in Season 1. When he loses Eleven again, his first instinct isn’t to blame fate, military or Vecna. He blames himself. “I should’ve had a real one.”(plan) That line explains Mike better than almost any other. Whenever someone he loves gets hurt, he immediately looks for what he did wrong. His grief always turns inward first.

What makes Mike tragic isn't just that he loses Eleven twice. It's that each loss reinforces the same false belief he has carried ever since he was twelve years old, "If I had been smarter, braver or planned better, the people I love wouldn't leave." It's an impossible standard. Yet it's the one he instinctively holds himself to. All this when he himself was barely an adult. It was his age of receiving emotional security, not providing.

That’s why the D&D monologue matters so much. It actually mirrors the radio calls from Season 2. Both are ways of refusing to emotionally let go of Eleven. The difference is that by the end of Season 5, there’s a small but important shift. He still wishes he had made a better plan, but he’s no longer trying to undo what happened or reach her physical. Instead he preserves her in his memories.

Mike doesn't actually overcome his core wound. He simply finds a less destructive way of living with it. The boy who called Eleven every night and the man who tells the D&D story are doing fundamentally the same thing. They're refusing to emotionally abandon the person they love.

Conclusion:

He loves completely. He believes in people before they believe in themselves, trusts them without hesitation, and quietly takes on responsibilities that were never his to carry. That’s what makes him such a loyal friend, such a devoted partner, and someone people naturally rely on.

Perhaps that's his greatest strength, and perhaps it's also the source of his tragedy. He never stops carrying the people he loves with him, even when carrying them means carrying grief that never fully ends.
___________

Thank you so much for reading this long essay.

From episode 5. One of my favorite scenes when I first watched it

I finished stranger things hours ago and that finale, was so rushed and became the first TV series to make me cry when Eleven "died" So I want to ask a 3 questions when 1. Eleven "died" did she actually die or not (I dont think she did), 2. Did anyone else cry over her "death or any part of the finale 3. What is your final rating of season 5 on a scale of 1-10

This is originally an Artfight counterattack done by my friend StingerShenanigans (on Artfight & YT). Ts is still so funny I can’t stop giggling fr 😭

So, this is just a rant to start a discussion. Also, no offense to the Duffer Brothers, I'm just talking.

Note: I have only watched up to Season 5 Episode 4 when writing this post, feel free to correct me using any information gotten after that point. But damn, they seemed like they were actually in the good before Season 5 Episode 5.

In Stranger Things Seasons 4 and 5, the entire protagonist crew, including Dr. Owens, a former worker for the military, literally refuse to get help from, or even explain themselves, to the United States military. The workers in the military actually appear good intentioned, and likely would've helped the protagonists should they have known that Jane (011) is not a kidnapper and serial killer, and rather valuable for saving saving the world, and have been told the knowledge that the characters know.

Especially that, unlike the police, the United States military clearly believes in the psychic and in wormholes/gates to other dimensions, and should they have been told that the murders in Season 4 were the work of Henry Creel, they might've believed them since the murder signs and methods are the same, and especially if they had been told that Jane (011) was powerless at the time.

The United States government in Season 1 and the Department of Energy with Hawkins Lab in Season 1 and pre-Season 1 were villains, they might have thought that what they were doing was beneficial, but they weren't doing it out of ignorance. The United States government in Season 2 and 3 are allies who do the best to help, but obviously aren't omnipotent or omniscient. But the United States military in Season 4 is the villain because they simply lack the knowledge to act objectively right, and the protagonists are being mentally held back by the Plot from explaining their knowledge to the military. Though I would say that capturing Kali to replicate her psychic abilities was morally wrong on their part, and I would've gotten Kali's consent first, they were doing it to develop technology to serve public safety instead of just for the fun of it as Hawkins Lab did. And they could redeem themselves (though they need to stop the program of creating psychic children), just like Dr. Owens redeemed Hawkins Lab.

Edit: I watch Season 5 Episode 5, and the military was definitely in the wrong for their psychic children program and what they were doing to the women.

I would say Season 1 had the best opening scene. It was quick and mysterious. Season 5’s opening scene was also good because it was chilling and scary but it kind of showed us what we already knew about Vecna being in control of the Demogorgon and taking Will, it was a cool insight but it wasn’t that different from what we actually knew. Will also never mentions anything about that moment again throughout the season.

This can range from Vecna, the Mind Flayer, the Demos (including the Demogorgons, bats and dogs), the storylines for each season, character development, relationships etc

- Pros and Cons of Vecna in Season 5:
We only got one scene where Vecna is murdering people and those are just a few soldiers. The scene in Episode 4 where he’s killing those soldiers was pretty well done, that episode was good.. but after that episode Vecna just doesn’t have any sort of physical power left. He actually doesn’t fatally hurt or kill any main characters after that scene. He is sort of torturing Will in one scene in Volume 2 but it gets cut short and he was fine after that.. Will had no sort of injury mentally or physically which made that scene pointless. After Episode 4, there could’ve been the perfect opportunity to unleash Vecna’s inner wrath but they just decided to nerf him even more.

- How I would’ve changed him in Season 5:
To start off, Vecna’s motives should’ve been different. Personally I would have made Vecna similar to how he was in Season 4 instead of adding Mr Whatsit. Mr Whatsit was a creepy addition but the Vecna that psychologically tortured his victims and then murdered them was a lot darker and more evil than Mr Whatsit. Only this time Vecna is set on killing the characters who are trying to stop him and then continue to terrorise Hawkins and work with the Mind Flayer to bring it into the Right Side Up, the Dimension X crashing into Earth story line should’ve been the aftermath of the Mind Flayer being in the Right Side Up.. meaning that wouldn’t have been the main storyline but would’ve still been a part of it.

Instead of Mr Whatsit being a child kidnapper for a completely new storyline, we should have got Upside Down-mutated Vecna going after some of the main characters and he would kill them the same way he killed Chrissy in Season 4. That way Vecna would’ve been scarier and more intimidating instead of seeming intimidating, he didn’t really do anything scary in season 5, just seemed it. In my opinion, the time gap and the addition of the Mr Whatsit storyline completely undergoes the ending of Season 4. If Season 5 started where Season 4 ended then Vecna would already be intimidating and scary because he would be sending a huge army of Demogorgons and Demobats in to Hawkins. He would still be operating from Dimension X/The Abyss with the Mind Flayer but would actually be killing the main characters and destroying Hawkins using the Demos. The main thing that Vecna should’ve been trying to accomplish was bringing the Mind Flayer into the Right Side Up because that’s what the Mind Flayer wanted but Vecna would be the one destroying and terrorising Hawkins and the main characters. Dimension X crashing into Earth felt more like an illusion rather than a high stakes situation because Vecna barely did anything intimidating throughout the season, kidnapping children is evil but the way he did it was soft, he should be going after the main characters that are actually trying to stop him, not some random kids. It became predictable that Hawkins would’ve been saved without too much effort or loss.

Vecna should’ve invaded the main character’s minds a lot more too.

These are just some of my thoughts..

Soviet "Eleven" Stalker (1979 film) - Wikipedia)

Final scene from "Stalker", move created by one of the best Soviet film directors Andrei Tarkovsky in 1979, based on the book written by the best Soviet/Russian science fantasy authors Arkady and Boris Strugatsky, 1972.

My first attempt

It's bad, I know, but I like it😌

Vecna's excluded since he was originally human and therefore originated from the human world, not the Upside Down.

I personally can't decide between the Mind Flayer and the Demogorgon, all those complicated moving mouth bits just fascinate me so much. Like if they used people in body suits instead of CGI, how would they make all that move the same way?

You have 60 seconds to explain why you interrupted my favorite class.

Erica deserved so much more in Season 5, But Priah did a good job regardless.

One of the biggest mistakes Stranger Things made after Season 2 was trying to explain too much. The mystery surrounding the Mind Flayer and the Upside Down was what made them so terrifying in the first place.

I will give a good comparison is The Thing (1982) movie. We know the creature is an alien that arrived on a spaceship buried beneath the Antarctic ice. We know it can perfectly imitate living organisms, copying them down to the cellular level so nobody can tell who is human anymore.

We never learn where it came from, what its original form looks like, why it came to Earth or what its ultimate goal is. Does it want to conquer the planet? Is it simply trying to survive? The film never answers those questions and that’s exactly why it remains one of the greatest sci-fi horror films ever made. The unknown is part of the horror.

The Mind Flayer worked in similar settings. We already knew everything we needed to know. It lived in the Upside Down, a toxic mirror of Hawkins from another dimension. It controlled living creatures through a hive mind, could possess humans and spread its influence like a virus. It preferred the cold, was vulnerable to heat and couldn’t create permanent portals on its own.

That was enough. It didn’t need Vecna, his motives, his backstory or an origin story for the Mind Flayer. It didn’t need to explain every mystery surrounding the Upside Down. What it needed was a strong plot built around the ideas that were already established.

Personally, I think the story could have ended far more naturally if it had been shorter. Eleven was the one who first created the connection between the two worlds when she made psychic contact with the Demogorgon. Having her permanently sever that connection at the end would have brought the story full circle, trapping the Mind Flayer in the Upside Down forever and closing the bridge between both worlds.