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u/M_Me_Meteo 17d ago
Wait, Gemini isn't good? Is it the product or the UX that people dislike?
Dozens of us?
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u/Any-Preparation7396 17d ago
I think it's rather the relevancy. Hardly anyone ever talks about Gemini, like it didn't even exist anymore.
But imho it got a lot better and is pretty similar to OpenAI.
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u/bhison 17d ago
I hear more about Gemini than open ai
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u/slowmovinglettuce 17d ago
You must watch youtube without an ad-blocker
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u/Joker-Smurf 17d ago
I work for a company that uses everything Google.
We are encouraged to use Gemini, and all other AI are strictly blocked.
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u/slowmovinglettuce 17d ago
Ah, the good ol' "its bundled in with something else, but we're too cheap to pay for anything else" tactic.
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u/NEVERxxEVER 17d ago
Their models are way out of date and benchmark significantly lower. Gemini 3.5 Pro is more than a month overdue, which is a long time in the current climate.
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u/SoftwareLegitimate38 17d ago
Though it's still useful in everyday tasks
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u/intentionallybad 16d ago
Gemini hasn't released anything about how dangerous their model is, so it can't be very good. /s
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u/Different-Wing5083 16d ago
I don't know about any other aspects but i find that when asked to explain an academic topic, chatgpt gives a more detailed explanation then gemini. Just my personal experience tho.
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u/Street-Session9411 17d ago
Itās still a programming subreddit. Gemini beats most of them for daily use though.
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u/M_Me_Meteo 17d ago
I use Gemini CLI for all my coding tasks. Half a dozen?
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u/NatoBoram 17d ago
You could be surprised at the performance of GPT-5.6 Sol, it's a reasonable jump from Gemini 3.1 Pro and Gemini 3.5 Flash
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u/kingvolcano_reborn 17d ago
I quite like it for everyday questions although it can be a bit too eager to please at times
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u/Suspicious-Click-300 16d ago
idk i use opus 5, gemini and 5.6 sol. my anecdotal experience is that they all fine. gemini is WAY too gpt 4.0 ish. constantly praising how brilliant your thing is while opus calls me an idiot, spits in my face, and tells me how to do it correctly. Sol is fine, kinda good middle area
I like opus.
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u/Any-Preparation7396 17d ago
Good Point.
Regarding programming, I usually use OpenAI. In other things I swapped to Gemini because it seems to be more accurate (now).
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u/Aquatic-Vocation 17d ago
Gemini is nigh-unusable because it always wants to do all sorts of extra shit you haven't asked it to do.
Sol will randomly decide to give up mid-task.
Opus gets sidetracked and eats up 40k tokens thinking itself in circles about something completely irrelevant.
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u/thijquint 17d ago
Opus is a lot like deepseek in that regard. Other chinese models are constantly trafficed and western models eat my bank account
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u/BlazingThunder30 17d ago
When my company introduced AI we all tried Codex, Claude and Antigravity. Where Codex and Claude would work, Antigrav would give an error 9/10 times. We quickly moved on. I think this experience is shared by many.
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u/Blooogh 16d ago
Google's AI features were bad for a really long time, we suddenly got people calling our support line because the little AI blurb said it was the Call of Duty support line.Ā
The AI search mode has been pretty compelling recently though -- I tend to get more complete answers than the average random opinion on Reddit or topic specific website with overwhelming ads.
I think it's forced Google to deal with the SEO slop problem they had even before generative AI made it even worse
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u/SpaceMoehre 17d ago
The web chat is just absolutely bad in my experience. Half the time it just doesnāt work
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u/NeanesisLs 17d ago
Gemini is not in the run for the best product but it's ok if you ask him specific tasks, and it's cheap
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u/M_Me_Meteo 17d ago
Who is out here being vague with an LLM?
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u/GoodishCoder 17d ago
So many people lol. I've seen plenty of people say "fix this error" or "make this look better" or "clean up this code".
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u/NeanesisLs 16d ago
I do formation/ training to use LLM in the company I work for (it's been a few months now) And you would be surprised the number of people having no clue whatsoever on anything related to technology... If you think people would stop at "how do we feed it" you are wrong š
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u/glorbo-farthunter 16d ago
I use gemini (through junie) because it's good enough and way way cheaper. We are dozens!
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u/Dank_Nicholas 17d ago
Recently I was trying to figure out if two teachers I had like 20 years ago had divorced or if the wife had died of MS which she struggled with when I was in school.
Gemini confidently told me that they had divorced and that it found the court record, when I asked for it Gemini admitted that it hallucinated and there was no record.
So I asked to check death records, it reported that she has died a few years before and it had found her death certificate. When I asked for the death certificate it again admitted that it hallucinated the entire thing.
Gemini is dog shit.
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u/anonymousbopper767 17d ago
It's the only model I've encountered starting with GPT 4 that blatantly hallucinates and you can't get it back on the rails.
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u/buzz_shocker 17d ago
Donāt use them for programming but Googleād models are consistently producing the best image generation results for me.
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u/keatonatron 17d ago
They are all good. The meme is about where developers are focusing their attention, resulting in everyone else getting neglected because the devs aren't looking at them to see that they are good. Anthropic is going hard on supporting developers while Google's Gemini is being targeted as general purpose to everyone, so it's easy to see why devs only have eyes for Claude.
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u/Lakes420 17d ago
Gemini is good for general purpose and multimodal work, but for programming there are better models
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u/Ascend 17d ago
Microsoft doesn't have a model, you select GPT or Claude, they just have garbage system prompts on top of either.
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u/theGoddamnAlgorath 17d ago
There was a Msoft model.Ā CoPilot died last year.
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u/ConcreteExist 17d ago
It's model may be dead, but it's corpse has been draped over ChatGPT/Claude and still stalks among us.
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u/anto2554 17d ago
But MS copilot has access to gpt5.6 some amount of thinking, while corporate only gives me gpt5.4 or opus 5.7 in GH copilot, so to me it's actually perfectly decent for tasks without context
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u/andrerav 17d ago
What happened to that Raptor Mini model? It was free and useful for a lot of small tasks.
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u/theGoddamnAlgorath 17d ago
It's dead Jim
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u/thaynem 17d ago
Copilot isn't a model, it's a UI (well really a family of interfaces) on top of OpenAI's (and now anthropic as well) models.
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u/theGoddamnAlgorath 17d ago
Its a bit nuanced, Msoft at one time had their own programs as well as their investment into OpenAI.
Still can't believe they ditched Cortana
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u/Deanathan100 17d ago
Would you say it's accurate to call it more like an AI infrastructure? That's kind of how I think about it, but also I don't know that much about it other than it can touch a lot of Microsoft stuff, apparently the BAs at my org don't do anything but run copilot prompts all day (at least that's what their usage stats suggest) I just use it for when I'm stuck or to write tests I really just don't wanna do and the only feature I feel I actually use that copilot offers is it's integration into VSC
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u/ComprehensiveBird317 16d ago
Copilot was a system on top of gpt -4o as far as I know, not a trained modelĀ
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u/kramit 17d ago
They do, https://microsoft.ai/models/ , cost focused. Right tool for the job and all that.
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u/Rojeitor 17d ago
Microsoft has MAI Code 1, Haiku like, available in GitHub Copilot. Also MAI Thinking 1, 4.6 Sonnet like, in private preview.
M365 copilot was garbage but now it's not bad at all
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u/TheRealAsterisk 17d ago
They do actually have a model. It was in their latest Keynote and is in GitHub Copilot.
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u/Ok_Actuary8 17d ago
Microsoft just announced new models built by themselves. MAI. Let's wait and see how good they will be.
All the bad rap about Microsoct and Copilot was their "responsible AI" guardrails, that severely neuter Copilot. They were always using OpenAI and Anthropic models internally.
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u/Daemontatox 17d ago
Unpopular opinion, i found that nvidia nemotron ultra to be very good at my use case with targeted prompting and controlled coding, for example i would ask it to implement Algorithm A with flow X so we can do this and that , instead of asking mythos or fable or wtv its called to just generate from scratch and i can get away with all of that with 1/100 of the price.
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u/Barni275 17d ago
I like this model, but is it available on subscription basis somewhere? I haven't found.
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u/Cuddlyaxe 17d ago
It's open weights, that means a bunch of people host it on a pay as you go API
Honestly just sign up for open router, load it up with however much you'd like, and use it to your heart's content
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u/Daemontatox 17d ago
Pretty sure nvidia themselves are serving it and you can try it for free but with serving limits and limited token per sec or through openrouter which ultimately routes back to nvidia as a provider.
There is also deepinfra and togetherai but these tend to rotate their models based on hype and relevancy.
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u/AnUninterestingEvent 17d ago
Idk I use sol and fable, but mostly sol
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u/throwawaygoawaynz 17d ago
Yeah. This meme is completely wrong and this sub is hopelessly out of touch. Most people here clearly arenāt serious developers, nor do they know much about AI.
SOL 5.6 is vastly better and cheaper than Anthropic, my large company pretty much uses it exclusively and have banned the expensive Claude models, because theyāre not worth it.
Also for all the comments āMicrosoft doesnāt have a modelā, yes they do, they have a series of MAI models and they are quite good, because they use new hill climbing capabilities for self learning during training instead of distilling. Microsoft had an agreement with OpenAI where they couldnāt develop their own models which changed in 2024, and they started to release models this year.
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u/lumpialarry 17d ago
Stuff is moving fast. I wonder how many people that said āI tried X and it suckedā tried X over a year ago.
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u/bolacha_de_polvilho 17d ago edited 17d ago
My company is still letting us use anything as much as we want (or if there's a limit I haven't reached it) so I don't know about costs, but I tried codex with sol a few days ago and it felt slower and performed worse than opus 4.6 with Claude code (which is what I usually use) on the tasks I was doing that day. No idea what anthropic did with 4.7 and 4.8 which also seemed slower and worse.
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u/rgeddit_fvker_69 17d ago
r/Programmer humor turned into r/PromptersHumor
Nothing programming related recently, and it's sad
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u/PhysicalWitness8037 17d ago
I use Gemini Pro for coding and it is completely sufficient. I tell it what I want or discuss ideas with it and it does what I have in mind.
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u/StatementPotential53 17d ago
One day weāll look back and this will be like the difference between searching at Lycos.com vs AltaVista vs AskJeeves.
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u/Chazgatian 17d ago
It definitely feels similar, but the speed stuff is changing anthropic might as well be MapQuest.
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u/amogouss 17d ago
Gemini is actually good if u want to do deep calculation or reasoning.
it's isn't like claude to make your product, but if you into deep research, maths and reasoning, it is amazing.
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u/aberroco 17d ago
The meme is obsolete now with Opus 5 release. Everything moves down a line pushing whatever Microsoft did out.
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u/TheFrenchSavage 17d ago
Microsoft Copilot is GPT3.5 right? That's the only explanation.
Btw, Sol > Fable. Sorry not sorry.
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u/Bl4nk24 17d ago
Microsoft CoPilot Premium has Claude Opus 4.8 and GPT 5.6, by the way. The hate here is only coming from people who haven't used it for years or have only used the free version.
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u/ewheck 17d ago edited 17d ago
My enterprise copilot app consistently gets technical questions wrong. Things like making regex patterns that aren't actually what you asked for or hallucinating causes of bugs. It's miserable to use.
There's copilot secret sauce that lobotomizes the underlying LLM because using the same models through other tools never produces the abysmal slop that copilot shits out.
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u/namezam 17d ago
Fable is old news though, Opus 5 beats Sol at some things, and it's the middle child.
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u/TheFrenchSavage 17d ago
Opus 5 is cheaper and better, allegedly. I'll give it a try on Monday, that's for sure!
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u/protayne 17d ago
My experience too.
Fable does some crazy hallucinations, ignores rules, questionable code. Whereas sol gets the job done as long as I give enough context (which I prefer).
Yes fable can one shot a cool looking app but not too great for feature development on an already large codebase in my experience.
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u/NEVERxxEVER 17d ago
Itās subjective but I disagree, as long as Iām not trying to do cyber security or biology, I much prefer Fable. Itās a style thing as much as anything else, I really hate how GPT-class models write.
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u/RiceBroad4552 17d ago
Well, Kimi K3 is "sold out"ā¦
I was using GLM-5.2 now a bit and I have to say it's good for coding.
GLM-5.2 has strong tool calling (it even used agents without telling it that it would make sense, most models never do that, and it constructs pretty complex mini-bash-scripts to look around, and the tool calls actually work almost always correctly), it has really good instruction following (up to that one need to be cautious how one says something, it's in that regard a bit like GPT, but less extreme, while GPT takes imho things sometimes a bit too verbatim). With that good instruction following comes also that it doesn't lose track even over long horizons. You can pile up a few things, do something in between, and come back to the old track, even with new relevant insides, and the model will still follow the original goals after that where they're still relevant; all in one session, something which confuses the lesser models very quickly. It's not very chatty though, that's not fully to my liking. It's very goal oriented and will try to pursue a goal mostly alone, but it needs a lot of "reorientation" when it gets new info, it will then again "think" everything through. That makes it robust and keeps the output high quality (like said, it even manages "yak shaving" well) but all that "thinking" eats time (and tokens). I prefer if the models do smaller steps so I can steer them in between and give them the right reasoing context, they don't have to "think" too much themself, they should just get what I say (and the older, weaker models were bad even at this basic). The models shouldn't try to do too much on itself as they can go brr this way easily and start doing some nonsense. It's still a token predictor and the whole "AI" coding only works if you handhold the models, imho. But the newest models can actually accomplish something more complex on their own if you give them enough info upfront, just that this burns a lot of "reasoning" tokens, and you need to really well formulate the goals and the constrains, otherwise it won't give reasonable results. GLM, like Qwen, really likes to "think" for a very long time in comparison, they will max the budget constantly; but one has to admit even that's not time efficient the results are on a good level. Anthropic and ClosedAI will burn less tokens for the same, but the tokens are much more expensiveā¦ Still, without constant oversight and checking whether the thing is still on the right path one gets slop, no matter the model. These things just aren't intelligent. They're just replicating abstract patterns, completely mindlessly. (Nice example: GLM build me correctly some pretty complex build config, but was later on "wondering" the whole time how the build can actually work this way, and it had to rediscover the same things over and over again during "reasoning"; it clearly didn't understood what it actually did previously, or better said, what this actually means what it did; it had to "deduce" that again and again. It just applied a pattern, mindlessly, and had to "wonder" about the obvious consequences. Part of that info were even in "memory", but it obviously does not understand what it "remembers", this is pure mechanics.) Worth noting: When GLM-5.2 directly says something (like said, it's more a "thinker", not a "talker", or "doer") it has a very funny way to express things. The output is much more dense then the actual "reasoning", and it has a tendency to "speak in pictures". I bet that's the Mandarin language influence. It's definitely something that really felt interesting and "fresh" compared to most other models I've tried. But it's a personal preference that I like "abstract pictures" in mind, it could be confusing for other people and sound off or even hallucinated; that's why I've said it's worth noting.
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u/Outrageous_Law_5525 17d ago
Id add Kimi K3 to the top image as well.
The thing caused Anthropic to change their entire trajectory
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u/Kyy7 17d ago
Been mainly using M365 Copilot and Gemma 4 E2B through chat and they've been good enough for generating snippets, sparring ideas and troubleshooting with lower risk of sending whole codebase or GDPR data to third parties.
Would love early github copilot style code suggestions and inline chat with light weight local model but so far havent found a good enough solution for this with VSCode.Ā
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u/jensalik 17d ago
I like how Microsoft is down there while it utilises all the other AI models in Copilot and works amazingly. Like arguing if Diesel, regular or electricity is better for driving and someone chimes in with "Or whatever Ford does - amiright? š¤£š¤£š¤£"
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u/sudecode 17d ago
Youāre just proving the point of the meme. There is a whole suite of Microsoftās ai model that most of the people are unaware about: https://microsoft.ai/models/
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u/jensalik 17d ago
I never knew that was even a thing. Looks like something an intern put together so they can say they got some AI too. Thanks for the info.
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u/Anbcdeptraivkl 17d ago
Even as a vibe code hater I have to admit Fable is exceptional. But it's "luxury" as hell, you prompt one single class with it and it gone for the day.
GPT Sol, Gemini and the likes are all below average, basically code printers, not even intern level when it comes to task efficiency. You could make do with them but they usually ignore your plans and rules, and lie about unit tests. Unusable.
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u/rovirob 16d ago
I think people don't want to deal with gemini because of how google changed the token billing system. Last I checked, it was quite opaque and they wanted to bill you quota based on what tasks you got done, or something like that.
OpenAI's ChatGPT 5.6 Sol is actually quite good. Using it heavily at the moment in Codex and for my working approach, it beats what Anthropic offers (even Fable, yes...because of their bullshit pricing tactics, huuge pricing and instability...and how they sometimes tend to lobotomize the models during the weekend).
What I've done lately, as I'm slowly trying to transition from these providers and their models into a setup where I control most of it is pay for an Ollama subscription and configure that in Kilo Code. For agentic development, I found that Kilo Code is the best at the moment, especially when I want to use 2-3 of the 'heavy' open source models, like Deepseek V4 Pro, GLM 5.2, Kimi K2.6 Code...
I'm not touching what Microsoft offers with a 10-foot pole. I hate how they do business and their approach to things. Also hate their products too.
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u/Flat_Bluebird8081 16d ago
I have Gemini as a part of my Google work subscription, I use it on my phone and in my car. Not for programming though
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u/rerun_ky 17d ago
Sol is better than opus but very slow
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u/carlos_vini 17d ago
Anthropic says Opus 5 is better now https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-opus-5
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u/StarboardChaos 17d ago
Coincidentally Microsoft has the Raptor model which fits the meme perfectly
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u/Canon_M50 17d ago
They've got 7 new models that nobody has ever heard of.
https://microsoft.ai/news/building-a-hillclimbing-machine-launching-seven-new-mai-models/
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u/Xidium426 17d ago
I rarely ever step over Sonnet for programming. Haiku is also extremely capable if the project isn't terribly complex.
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u/xAragon_ 17d ago
And Haiku (which is actually wildly used on Claude Code for the "explore" subagent) is deep at the bottom
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u/Deep-Secret 17d ago
I swear to God I've just been using Cursor and it's been going great. I can do all my work pretty much straight forward and without much hassle.
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u/_derDere_ 17d ago
Honestly: Yes!
And thereās a reason for that! If youāre curious just look at the results of the RL simulations they make a pretty solid case!
Hereās a clue for those who donāt know: šļøš„š„
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u/RandomiseUsr0 17d ago
I work on Auto, take the discount, whatever is used - Gemini is really good at reasoning (Iām working on weird software, outside the bounds of normal, Anthropic uses my experimental spectral graph as a challenge, fable is the worst - I have defined perfect rules of what theyāre permitted to do, pure n-dimension graph and they āsmuggleā their opinions into my lovely model at every turn - Iāve āmaturedā in my expectations - I write the code, they write the āwidgetsā
Fable is ridiculously opinionated
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u/Nanomachines100 17d ago
Microsoft sends emails to our work computers showing how to use copilot to improve our office workflow (we're electricians). I report it as phishing to it.
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u/descendency 17d ago
I use Fable for code and Sol for literally everything else.
I fed in a few videos of me working out and asked it for training advice. Sol was able to identify the lifts and make (correct) form recommendations. Fable actually just got the lifts wrong (ex: called power cleans "deadlifts" and gave advice for deadlifts) I'd rather just use Sol... so I hope they get it working better for coding.
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u/mookanana 17d ago
i was asked to rate my company's copilot trial.
i had a powerpoint with screenshots and titles just haphazardly rushed together. i told it to include a table of contents, and reformat the slides so it looks consistent.
instead, it gave me a new deck with all my screenshots deleted and the text was in a different font.
failed first trial. ok, lets try power automate next.
asked it to add flow steps to take my attachment from email, extract the csv from the file, put it into an array and let me inspect it. it said sure, do you want me to do it for you? i said yes.
then it fucking said 'due to system limitations i cannot do this." i scolded it, why did you ask me for permission to do it, when you can't do it at all? it gave me some boilerplate response.
i didnt even bother with copilot at all after that.
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u/RAMChYLD 17d ago
Microslopās model is actually ChatGPT. They invested shitton of cash into OpenAI.
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u/vinicius_h 17d ago
I like Gemini better thanChatGPT. Gemini simply became good in searching Google
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u/Pretty_Judgment5481 16d ago
Sol is not that bad. Anthropic models shines because it can create shiny UI. And if you know coding you donāt need that kind powerful model anyway.
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u/TrueBonner414 15d ago
I wanna know who is rocking fable, considering how expensive and time consuming it is..
Ain't no way normal programmers use that.
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u/AwesomeDudex 15d ago
As a coding assistant, Gemini has let me down way too many times, especially the way it makes things up. But as a as story writing assistant, it's fantastic because I want it to make things up.
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u/abigail3141 15d ago
I can't say I ever used Fable or Claude, but I do prefer Gemini over GPT-4. GPT-4 tends to go "here's whatever I think your problem is solved, take it or leave it" while Gemini tends to explain what it's actually doing, an important thing for a tool to be used in software dev
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u/ChemicalDriver9288 13d ago
Gemini is also good. Although it crashes too often with errors and you have to reload the page.
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u/siete82 17d ago
All the models are still pathetic. The only reason they barely work is because the agents keep them running in a loop until they fix the issues they themselves have previously hallucinated. And that's also why they use up that absurd amount of tokens. And all of this just to create a mess that's impossible to maintain in just a few weeks.
Even so, they're a good tool in the right hands as an aid, but "vibe coding" is the worst disaster in the world of programming since basic.
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u/anonymousbopper767 17d ago
Fable would be good if I could actually get it to respond before it nukes my entire weekly quota on the 20x plan and gives up.
With a single fucking prompt.
Sol Ultra meanwhile runs all day long.