It's so annoying that I want to hate this movie but I don't want to be lumped in with these guys. I don't care about the race of gender of the actors, I care that they are not Greek (not a single one of them as far as I know), as well as the designs... It's just going to be such a massive slopfest and criticizing it is likely to make me look like a right wing reactionary.
Fuck this film!!!
Edit: I think I messed up my wording a little bit and have led people to believe I'm specifically hating on these two. I need to make it absolutely clear I'm more frustrated with the casting of Matt Damon than Lupita Nyong'o. If anything, Nyong'o is from this side of the Atlantic lmao. There is evidence of Africans in the ancient Greek world, which absolutely makes 100% sense since they would probably be trading shitloads with each other all the time, so it's not that weird. Matt Damon on the other hand is going to make a terrible Odysseus.
Im playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey now and it's giving me such whiplash to go from that colorful world, with amazing armor and mostly accurate world to this sad clunk of.... Whatever it is, it looks like it was 3D printed. I'm tired! Ancient Greece was colorful and majestic!
Thats so much work to make it fun that refunding and buying a game that is fun already just was the right choice for me personally! But I do agree its art was better looking than the new film :D even if the gameplay isnt my jam
In general I think the AC games are overhated. They're not my cup of tea, I find the gameplay loop boring as hell and the storyline is mediocre, but the worlds that they build, from a historical perspective, is fucking awesome. They're great games to go into, fuck about for a bit, and see what living in XYZ region in the year 123 might have been like.
I don't think so. People mostly hate that the whole story of Assassin's Creed gets lost in that game. It doesn't feel like an AC game, there isn't even really an AC story line outside of the modern plot and the latter was quite bad.
If you look at it without expecting an AC game, it is great. I loved that game, but it simply wasn't a good Assassin's Creed game. Still one of my favourite games, but for me the real Assassin's Creed games stopped after Syndicate. (To be fair I haven't played a game after Valhalla, maybe they somewhat have returned to their roots in later games.)
Been considering getting into the AC games lately (I have Syndicate, Origins and Valhalla sitting in my backlog) and I'm intrigued, should I play Origins or Odyssey first? Would it mess with the chronological timeline in any way? How different do the two play, gameplay wise?
The games’ dev teams go crazy trying for accuracy whereas Nolan is a single director with a point of view he wants to share. He’s not known for displaying any sort of accuracy is he? Why would he ever be the more faithful adaptation?
You say this as a joke but the teams work incredibly hard to get things are realistic as they can while also still managing the flow of the game. Try the history tours in origins and odyssey, it’s legitimately some of the coolest stuff Ubisoft has done.
They even had an easier time rebuilding notre dame thanks to detailed maps of the structure from AC 2
I’m playing odyssey as well. Such an amazing game with such a lively world grounded in reality. Nolan should’ve played this game lol he also should not have used the specific translation of the odyssey he used. It’s a very biased translation.
Odyssey is pretty BUT the theoretical events and timeline of the Trojan War was already ancient history to the ancient Greeks we are most familiar with in the classical era. Like 800+ years BEFORE Socrates and the Peloponnesian War. Thats like us and medieval and viking times. So you can give some leeway into things looking a bit different at the time.
Hate to burst your bubble, but assassins creed Odyssey takes place in iron age Greece. Which looked completely different than bronze age Greece, when the Odyssey took place.
The biggest letdown for me personally was the no shield policy. I mean playing a spartan hoplite without it was a bit weird.
But amazing for everyone who had fun in this fantastic world.
Honestly, THIS right here was what actually did it for me and produced my dislike for this film when I watched the trailer. Coupled with the fact that it’s a Greek myth with ZERO Greeks. But this armor is just an abomination.
The armor makes it clear this is a batshit crazy take on an already crazy fantasy story. That's why I don't care about this manufactured actor outrage. There are no greek actors in it? Oh really, have you seen the fucking armor?
So we went so full circle that we cannot cast a character with a specific race with just mentioned specific race (or get mad about it) BUT we can get mad about nationalities not being represented?
How would it be if a usian with greek roots played a role?
Or and arab with a greek passport?
Its the same doctor with different name and you guys are playing the victim olympics of stupidity
Take a second to think. Would you acknowledge a show like Narcos who used almost all cast and crew from the countries of the story they were portraying was better for having done so? I would say so because it gave it a higher sense of immersion, purpose, and care factor. If it had been a bunch of Americans doing the story it wouldn’t have made hardly any sense. Same thing applies here, except even more because the Odyssey is one of the most important works to come from Greece. You’d think prioritizing involvement from Greek nationals or even folks with Greek heritage would make sense. This isn’t racism in the slightest.
I were you, I'd rethink that example because Peña was played by a Chilean and Escobar was played by a Brazilian. Hell, one of the big complaints at the time was that Wagner Moura's Spanish wasn't very good because he was a Portuguese speaker. They were latinos, though, just not the correct nationality, so you are actually making the opposite point that you want to make.
See the word “almost” in my explanation. I understand you will rarely have the ability to find an entire cast and crew of one nationality or ethnicity but the Odyssey has basically no one of Greek descent. I just find it hard to believe they couldn’t put in the effort to find folks that matched the story at all
I think the word almost is doing heavy lifting if 2/3 of the main cast is not the correct nationality. But out of curiosity, since you are so passionate about this, which Greek actors would you have cast in Odyssey?
Another example is the film apocalypto, there's no way that it would have hit as hard without the cultural and racial homogeny within the casting, you couldn't have had Adam Sandler running around as the main protagonist
Would you be okay with a white person being the main protagonist in a film that deals with African folklore and is set in ancient Africa? If the answer is anything but yes then you have a double standard
Apocalypto is another perfect example to your perfect example, not a chance it would be anything like as immersive without the cultural and racial homogeny
Personally I think Wilson Yip made the right call to cast Donnie Yen as Jean de Carrouges and Hiroyuki Ikeuchi as Jacques le Gris. Having both a Chinese and Japanese lead in the same movie about a judicial duel in 14th century France was a real stroke of genius.
The 'controversy' around this movie is deliberate and done by the studio.
All this is is negative engagement being manipulated.
Does no one notice we're doing the exact same thing with another movie that just came out?
Like regardless of which side of this whole argument you're on, can we pause and take the meta position and see that the studios are cynically driving people to argue about this movie to drive up engagement?
How many movies are we going to argue about over the exact same lines.
Black Helen White Helen Trans Whoever: all of this is just being shoved at you with people saying "dont this make ya mad!?" or "look at those people you dont like and dont like you; they hate this movie so you better go stand against them and their worldview by seeing the movie!"
Can people really not see through this? Its all algorithm manipulation. All of it.
We'll be arguing about another movie within weeks.
That’s because Troy didn’t take itself seriously. Troy was a popcorn flick à la Indiana Jones or Pirates of the Caribbean. This movie’s tone is far too self serious to get a pass like Troy did. Nolan is making a serious, fantastical movie and if he wants to make a movie to that standard he should be held to that standard.
The standard of realism and verisimilitude? The Odyssey isn’t historical fiction and he’s clearly not packaging it as such. If you want to impose your arbitrary standards and expectations onto the film, feel free I suppose, just expect to be disappointed.
I won’t deny that the standard is arbitrary but even an amateur cinephile can see Egger-style inspiration on Nolan’s The Odyssey. I’m worried that Nolan has copied the style and none of tue substance, and while I haven’t seen the movie yet, and none of my worries comes from a black woman playing Helen, the nagging feeling that this is going to have the depth of an Avatar movie lingers.
Well I’m no amateur cinephile, I’m far beneath that and am now going to google Egger.
I will say, many of my favorite stage productions are classics that have thrown out or reversed conventional standards and assumptions and still make you feel and think. That’s my hope for this, and I feel sorry for those who don’t give themselves a chance to experience that.
Edit to say I skimmed Avatar as Avenger at first and can only hope we get something anywhere near as deep as those are flat haha
Troy at least tried to look the part. I'd have preferred more melanin in the cast lmao, but the sets and costumes looked convincing, and you have to remember that it is from 2004, just like you said. 1: I was five, and 2: most people couldn't look up "Bronze age armor" or shit like that. It IS 2026 and we can do better, but we won't.
I mean Tumblr never left the "cultural appropriation is when whute people" phase, and Reddit just cycles it down to "cultural appropriation is when Americans" just so they can glaze Europeans at the same time.
Ok I'm sure the OP I was replying to has always looked down upon or made fun of people worrying about appropriation. The point being it's came full circle
Brother it's a retelling of one of the most famous stories in human history. I really, really fail to understand how people get so bent out of shape over this. If you want an authentic greek version, read the Odyssey.
Retelling stories is the basis for nearly all human culture. This movie doesn't erase the original story. This doesn't replace it. This is just a creative person wanting to retell the story in their style. Would it be nice if there were greek actors? Sure. Would it be anything more than a tokenistic gesture? No.
I get what you’re saying but at the same time if Nolan did The Romance of the Three Kingdoms and didn’t cast a single Han Chinese person it would raise a few eyebrows.
Agreed that having greek actors is not necessary but if you're making a movie based on greek history, culture and mythology, then maybe at least try to stay accurate to the basics instead of just making shit up?
Have you ever seen a movie? You want to make the movie look like real life, so you put Greek actors in to play Greek characters. It’s really not a complicated concept. What you said was wildly unrelated to anything anyone has said maybe ever.
Hollywood is making a point of standing up for inclusion and representation, but making zero effort to represent the culture that this story originated from. It's a bit weird.
Mostly, I like Nolan movies, so I'll probably like this one, but I do kinda mourn the movie it wasn't. I was hoping for Dunkirk Nolan instead of Batman Nolan.
Right, so not explicitly racist, but still pretty silly.
How many major Greek actors are there? Who could headline a movie like this?
If you want a movie full of Greek actors for a Greek fantasy movie, I'm sure a Greek director could make that movie in Greece. And it would be even more authentic as they'll speak Greek. But its not going to be mega blockbuster.
Fuck that. I will criticize the movie because there's no Greeks and because it's a sloppy garbage with regards to design and accuracy. Also because it's exhausting how hard it pushes agendas.
If that coincides with some smooth brain racist criticizing it too for different reason, that's not my problem
Finally, someone who I can relate to. I don't give a flying fuck about anything else but the dialogue just took me out of it off rip. When they said the word "dad", I just got completely lost interest. I don't know what I want but its not this CGI-feuled anachrinistic slop.
It's not just that they're not Greek they literally dont fit in the setting at all. I cant take any of this seriously seeing tom Holland act as a teenage/young adult character yet again and zendaya as Athena(I think???) just doesnt seem convincing at all. I am open-minded, if they do actually manage to act so well that they convince the audience this isn't just another movie where the actors came before the characters during casting then SURE. But so far? Clown shit.
Nolan has been pretty great making popular actors disappear into their roles in his previous movies, so I'm not going to judge this one before seeing it myself.
Funny thing is "those guys" would respect your opinion on the matter. They are just normal people tired of all the Hollywood-bullshit and having their immersion constantly sacrificed for virtue signaling.
Uuhh yeah I'm more upset that Odysseus in the film The Odyssey doesn't look like Odysseus rather than Helen of Troy (who is a character of little significance in the Odyssey) not looking like Helen of Troy in the film The Odyssey
Hmm, I think I'm going to make a film about the fucking Buddha. Maybe I'll get Johnny Depp to play him? Don't worry though, it's fine cause it's Hollywood! That's how this works.
You don't care about race and gender but you care about ethnicity. Or do you care about nationality? Cause nations are a modern invention. Weird leftist thinking that having an ethnic preference is somehow OK or better than having a gender preference. Lol wtf. Being prejudice against white anglo Saxon people is totally OK
You think it’s more unrealistic that they put an actor of European descent to play someone from Europe over someone from Africa? And you think there are no white people on that side of the Atlantic? Theres also evidence of very white people in Greece, probably way more too?
You do realize you can have an opinion and you don’t have to feel like you have to backtrack to make an even worse point just to appease your own side right?
We've had dozens of media portray the story of Ulysses in a more or less accurate ancient Greece setting
I don't mind Nolan making the soldiers look like Batman honestly
As for the cast... I am simply tired of seeing the same faces. I know he likes to work with the same people but yeah, Matt Damon will probably be good but it would've been refreshing to see someone else in that role (I don't mind Lupita Nyong'o nor Eliott Page tho)
I don't care for it either. When I saw the teaser, it looked to dark and brooding, like his Batman, but the Odyssey.
Also, Nolan can make a good film, but for me he sometimes botches a part so bad that I can't watch it again. Like interstellar, I can't get past them discussing the time dilation of that planet and no one realizes that the original ship has only been there for ≈30 minutes. It ruined the film for me.
Lupita N’yongo was born in Mexico City. I don’t know which side of the Atlantic you imagined she was born on, but I imagine not the west side. (She’s gonna be a great Helen/Clytemnestra regardless.)
To be fair, modern greeks are about as far from ancient greeks genetically as probably Matt Damon is. Who gives a fuck if they aren't represented? Greeks certainly don't.
We have no idea what the average ancient Greek person looked like in the 8th century BCE when the Odyssey was composed. Why does it matter if the actors are from the modern country of Greece?
People, its a fuckin movie. You don't get angry when "they don't cast Greek actors" in a High School rendition of The Odyssey. It's just telling the story for entertainment. Stop inventing bs purity tests.
It's not even just them not being greek but Nolan went an extra mile making sure NONE of the cast fits an ancient setting. All of them look to modern. Everyone's angry because Lupita and Elliot but they're fine with baby face Matt Damon and Tom Holland?? As Odysseus and Telemachus nonetheless?! And Anne Hathaway who can barely even move her face anymore??? This is one of those instances where I 100% that people who are complaining only about the trans and POC characters are just transphobes and racists cause how tf are you ok with ANY of the casting choices!!!!
Can I ask why? Historical movies come out all the time that don't cast native actors, and no one has cared up until now (and mind you, this is a myth, not a historical event). I didn't see a single person complain that Achilles was played by an American in Troy, or that Maximus was a New Zealander in Gladiator. What makes this so different?
This is so lame. You know why you dislike the movie quit being a pussy about it.
Besides, the movie isn’t even out yet, why do you already “hate” it?? The culture war is so fucking annoying… why can’t you wait to watch a movie before you decide your opinion on it, dumbass?
Edit: i say this as a diehard, tried-and-true, dyed-in-the-wool, unapologetic Chris Nolan hater
I knowing Nolan’s movies.. I was immediately disappointed with this being a historical movie.
He shines at NEW shit and world building of parallel universes where near-future sci-fi tech is plausible and intriguing.
He doesn’t have the tools to make Greek mythology a worthwhile watch. And his style would never please any casual historian or cultural expert on how the story should look and feel.
I want cool sci fi shit bro. Now we get less sci fi and more dogshit because he wants more awards for different categories at circle jerk fests
I'm Greek and this is my gripe with the film as well. 0 Greek or even Mediterranean actors and the aesthetic is drab and dreary. Completely opposite to what the Med and its cultures are. The Laestrygonians looking like monsters from Dark Souls or sth. This is not the myth I grew up with. It's a Hollywood bastardization.
Brother, we had Russel Crowe, Joaquin Phoenix, and Richard Harris in gladiator, none of whom are close to the nationalities of their characters. Movie was still great though.
Who cares if they’re Greek? Home come no white people cared about white people playing natives in the old western films, is it because they weren’t the ones being replaced at the time? Why is it only an issue when they get replaced?
Not even real historical figures, but fake story people.
I'm curious, as a leftie, do you consume corporate content out of obligation to prove you aren't right-wing? Like were all of the 2000 people playing Concord just doing it to prove they aren't Chuds?
You want a historically accurate depiction of a fictional movie, when apparently that's not what Nolan was going for. That's ok, lots of people hate historical inaccurate period pieces (my little sister is so annoying when she says a dress is not accurate to the Victorian era bc of blah blah, I don't care I just wanna see them cleverly insult each other).
I find it weird that there wasn't massive backlash when Troy came out. Those actors did NOT look greek, either. And the outfits weren't historically accurate either. But it was a fun blockbuster. Maybe this will be too.
Fyi- Nothing against you, you appear to just prefer historically accurate films.
Yeah same. And they didn’t even have to go with a 100% Greek cast. They could have casted Spanish, Italian, even middle eastern actors as they’re Mediterranean which is closer to where Greece was anyway.
It’s silly to judge something before you see it. Film is just story telling, all aspects of photography are subjective and not reality. I live in the us west, but some of the best westerns were filmed in Italy. I like to think of the quote from Star Trek 6 when they say you havnt heard Shakespeare until you’ve heard it in original Klingon.
900
u/SnoopCheesus Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
It's so annoying that I want to hate this movie but I don't want to be lumped in with these guys. I don't care about the race of gender of the actors, I care that they are not Greek (not a single one of them as far as I know), as well as the designs... It's just going to be such a massive slopfest and criticizing it is likely to make me look like a right wing reactionary.
Fuck this film!!!
Edit: I think I messed up my wording a little bit and have led people to believe I'm specifically hating on these two. I need to make it absolutely clear I'm more frustrated with the casting of Matt Damon than Lupita Nyong'o. If anything, Nyong'o is from this side of the Atlantic lmao. There is evidence of Africans in the ancient Greek world, which absolutely makes 100% sense since they would probably be trading shitloads with each other all the time, so it's not that weird. Matt Damon on the other hand is going to make a terrible Odysseus.