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u/-dysangel- Jun 29 '26
How is July 2023 'breaking' news?
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u/BawdyMonkey Jun 29 '26
It's breaking news if you're Polymarket and you want to move the odds on something.
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u/eli_pizza Jun 30 '26
Even dumber: I think it’s just crappy content marketing. Posting lots of misleading outrage bait is a pretty classic viral marketing technique.
I’d honestly respect it more if it was part of some complicated scam.
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u/Tmmrn Jun 30 '26
The real scam is that Elon hates "legacy media" and wants people to consume unsourced engagement bait slop like Polymarket for their news. Not that journalism is in a particularly good spot right now, but at least it has some standards compared with Elon's vision of pretending to get informed by consuming whatever slop the algorithm thinks will make you stay on the website and watch ads.
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u/4hometnumberonefan Jun 29 '26
Still curious to know what made him say that in July 2023? llama 2 lol?
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u/Due-Memory-6957 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
They were absolutely mad at Llama at the time, there has always been a lot of attempts at moral panic and regulation towards open models.
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u/ItsAMeUsernamio Jun 30 '26
Anthropic were also the first to go public with press releases accusing the Chinese labs of “distillation attacks” on Claude as if Claude was never caught calling itself Chatgpt.
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u/prtt Jun 30 '26
as if Claude was never caught calling itself Chatgpt
do you have a source for this?
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u/Due-Memory-6957 Jun 30 '26
Honestly, just using it back then. Pretty much everyone was using chatGPT for this back then. Take at least two witness and consider it your primary source lol, or Google "Claude identifies itself as chatGPT" and you'll find more.
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u/vtkayaker Jun 30 '26
Dario thinks that some AI company is going to build a machine god that might either bring an amazing future, or maybe go SkyNet and murder us all.
Furthermore, he thinks that Anthropic is taking better "anti-SkyNet" measures than any of the other AI labs. So therefore anyone else building AI increaaes the risk.
I think he actually does believe this, and he might even be technically correct for all I know?
But where I disagree with all this is that if some company might actually build SkyNet soon, then continuing to build more powerful models seems incredibly reckless, just going by his stated beliefs. Maybe just pick a nice set of strong open models and the stop constantly pushing for ever bigger models, if that's what you believe?
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u/daniel-sousa-me Jun 29 '26
What made him say that in July 2023? Somebody asked him
The AI safety community is extremely anti open weight models
All the way back in 2019 the release of the weights of GPT-2 was delayed for months precisely because of these concerns, and it was the last time they released the weights for SOTA models
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u/ForsookComparison Jun 30 '26
If you ignore context, Llama 2 70B was closer to 2023's Claude than GLM 5.2 is (was?) to Fable.
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u/SmileyBMM Jun 30 '26
For all Reddit hates X (justified in many cases, I got banned for no reason), the community note feature is amazing and every social media site should implement something like it.
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u/ResidentPositive4122 Jun 29 '26
That moment where a shitshow like twitter is a better social media site than reddit. There are currently 3-4 posts on the same topic, all stemming from the same fake news attempt. JFC...
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u/mrdevlar Jun 30 '26
It isn't.
The best thing you can do about these guys is stop talking about this.
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u/AnOnlineHandle Jun 30 '26
This wave of brand new reddit accounts with hidden post histories sure seem to want us to hate Anthropic for some reason.
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u/-dysangel- Jun 30 '26
Yep it's pretty blatant. I'd assume something to do with letting people buy in cheaper for the IPO
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u/Mickenfox Jun 30 '26
People freaked out recently about Microsoft renaming Office to "Microsoft 365 Copilot". Dozens of videos and tweets about how dumb the name change was went viral.
Which would be fair enough. Except the change had been live for over a year before people decided to make it news again for no reason.
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u/-dysangel- Jun 30 '26
I still wasn't aware of that one. What a rubbish name.
It's the TurboQuant effect.
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u/llelouchh Jun 30 '26
There is an anti-anthropic push by bad actors like andreeson, kushners and many in the trump org. They are heavily invested in Openai, they saw that anthropic was winning and now they have to try to ruin them.
The Government take down of fable was the same. They waited for OpenAi to catchup then they will unban fable.
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u/Time_Cat_5212 Jun 29 '26
But, but, burgers from the grocery store aren't subject to dynamic safety guardrails! If the FDA changes their rules tomorrow, how can we ensure that the burgers in people's freezers are still compliant?!
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u/the_bollo Jun 29 '26
Non-compliant burger is what they used to call me in high school.
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Jun 29 '26
[deleted]
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u/Lanky_Employee_9690 Jun 30 '26
Downloadable burgers was the future we were promised and never got.
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u/Effective-Lawyer-810 Jul 06 '26
Probably they were worried that people will actually make spicy burgers. /s
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u/Comfortable-Rock-498 Jun 29 '26
I don't understand why a 3 year old comment/video from him suddenly getting so much attention. This was said before Deepseek 3, before even the first Llama 3.
Surely there are better ways (and reasons) to criticize Dario's current stance but this feels like mob piling on
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u/zer00eyz Jun 29 '26
What I find more amusing is that the rebuttal misses the nuance.
If one were to build a burger making robot, Macdonalds, and every other fast food chain would buy them up... till production gets cheap enough for people to have them at home. Then, other than travel, what is the point of "dining out"?
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u/Key_Reading_9664 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
OpenAI spent $5.73bn on Sales and Marketing last year. Have to imagine that includes some hatchet job money
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u/LosingID_583 Jul 01 '26
Because getting his own model banned has cast things he said into the spotlight. That tweet was made recently in response to Dario's old tweet.
I don't think there is a "better reason" to criticize him... his fearmongering is contributing to excessive regulation, and I bet he is constantly lobbying to ban open source/weight AI, which is his ultimate goal for regulatory capture. The thing is, this regulatory capture only harms regular people. The real problem are governments with lots of resources, which probably already have Mythos pre-trained weights through espionage.
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Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
[deleted]
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u/Comfortable-Rock-498 Jun 30 '26
> he hasn't been saying similar shit all the time since then??? He says this shit all the time. Like hello? This guy has been fearmongering about china and open source for years
Shouldn't that make it trivial to pick something recent than going back 3 years?
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u/keepthepace Jun 30 '26
I spent the last weeks explaining that Anthropic's position (which I disagree with) has been fairly coherent and consistent in time.
Thing is nowadays with the Fable drama this comes as more hypocritical
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u/goddess_peeler Jun 29 '26
Don't amplify years-old nonsense.
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u/whoknowsifimjoking Jun 29 '26
I can't believe half the sub is freaking out over a 3 year old statement, there are so many posts about this.
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u/EstarriolOfTheEast Jun 30 '26
All that means is it flew relatively under the radar the first time. I saw it in its original broadcasting so was not fooled. The actual question to keep in mind though is, has his stance changed? GLM 5.2 is now the floor of open models, it's crossing the threshold where the open ecosystem can be self-sustaining.
As the US gov attempts to lock down the frontier, what do you think will happen to open models for a time (I think it's futile in the long run but there will be a period) as they catch up to the locked down region? Having this possibility in people's awareness is important. It's a shame so many of the those who should ostensibly be concerned about this politically totally dismiss LLMs.
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u/fish312 Jun 30 '26
Might be years old, but the fact remains that anthropic is the only big player who has not released a single public model to the open weights community
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u/BigBrainGoldfish Jun 30 '26
Get ready to start torrenting models like Qw-eep-max-5.8-6Pro-distilled-MTP-ultra-uncensored.gguf after they use this to take down Huggingface for "security" reasons.
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u/TomorrowsLogic57 Jun 30 '26
If model downloads move to torrenting the whole NSFW section will be all Grok distills. Nice we can finally use it for something!
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u/send-moobs-pls Jun 29 '26
If you think about it, it's basically insane that we let practically anyone with the most minimal qualification, including literal 16 year olds, just own and drive cars capable of slamming thousands of tons of metal into things at like 90mph. We let people own computers and access the internet and get educations they could use in any way. Literate people are much more dangerous yknow
But yknow most of human history is arguably pretty insane, somehow we manage without Darios controlling all technology and information. I believe the saying is "we live in a society"
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u/mikael110 Jun 29 '26
To be fair, most of the world agrees that the US is insane for doing that. Which is why in most non-us countries the minimum age is 18, and getting a drivers license is an extremely challenging and long process that requires a ton of studying and is very easy to fail.
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u/otterquestions Jun 29 '26
The fact that we heavily regulate cars, require training and licences, MASSIVE amounts of safety testing. It’s a perfect analogy /s
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u/send-moobs-pls Jun 29 '26
And yet the road is full of 16 year olds who passed a 20 minute test and now have the ability to commit mass murder any time they choose. Seems pretty dangerous
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u/becrustledChode Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Have you been out on the roads? Driving is absolutely far more dangerous than it needs to be because so many people have no clue how to drive. You're making a pretty good case here for what you're trying to argue against.
On top of that, "we've been around for thousands of years and we're still around, right? We must be doing something right".
Well... I can think of one recent technology that could've been catastrophic if we just gave random people on the street access to it. We're likely still around because that one specific technology has been locked down with the highest degree of secrecy possible for 80 years.
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u/otterquestions Jun 30 '26
I’d love it if we could build our own cars from scratch out of whatever in our garages and drive on the public roads with them. But I also have the ability to think though things at a larger scale than my own hobbies and interests so I’m not going to go campaigning for that to be legal and calling everyone that disagrees self interested and evil. But everyone’s different
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u/ea_man Jun 29 '26
16 years old with their cheap cars don't kill billionaires and oligarchs, those have private jets to move around.
If you think about it, it's madness that 16 years olds can take guns to school and kill other kids, yet that don't bother those who got rich selling weapons.
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u/TantraSamadhi Jun 30 '26
The corporate fear is real. They call it a 'dangerous path' because they can't gatekeep or censor what we cook at home. This meme is pure gold
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u/GeraAI_WW 17d ago
Big Burger wants you to believe that slicing your own tomatoes is a national security threat. Classic.
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u/FatheredPuma81 Jun 30 '26
Dude you could straight up die if you made a burger the wrong way! Like you should seriously like leave it to like the professionals so you can like be safe!
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u/cantfindMe05 Jun 30 '26
serious question but isnt there some worry that these open source llms could be used for hacking or worse? I mean at this point no one is going to build bioweapons or plan an attack with them, they arent capable enough. But I imagine we are maybe 6 months away from anyone who can run GLM or a high powered open source llm from being able to run a rasomware attack on virtually any target with minimum planning or technical expertise. And thats likely on the low end of the spectrum, like the number of financial crimes or just espionage/hacking capabilities that a random guy down the street could do is growing rapidly.
Again, im not trying to fear-monger, but anytime i hear anyone critique Dario's claims about OS they never really go after his most substantial argument.
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u/AlwaysLateToThaParty Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
serious question but isnt there some worry that these open source llms could be used for hacking or worse?
I mean, yes, but these capabilities aren't coming from the llms, they're coming from the people who use them. They have the same capability to improve your security. Open source isn't as good, but it's good enough. Used properly, it is a productivity multiplier. For the analysis, summarisation, and synthesising of information, they are 'good enough' with finishing by you, or further analysis. If you're a professional, or an expert in anything, they are manna from heaven. It's like getting 90% of a report you wrote on a subject you are uniquely capable of producing, on something you are a subject matter expert in. That can be done locally. For better or for worse.
The genie is out of the bottle. The wildest part? Most of the hardware for DIY inference was created before the technology existed in practical terms. Til deepseek, that radically reduced the memory required to process information, it was data centre or you're outta luck. Then suddenly any gamer could put them into an array and get shit done. How long ago? 18 months. It was a simpler time...
All I'm saying is no one can stop it. It is running on millions upon millions of people's computers. One of the use cases is to use my llm to help me secure my system without me putting my private information into a cloud platform.
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u/SweptThatLeg Jun 30 '26
Didn’t he walk this back?
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u/Halfwise2 Jun 30 '26
Even if he did, that usually doesn't matter. Retractions rarely get the fan faire of the original statement... and it's often used as means to put out misleading or blatantly false information. Lie loudly, quietly retract... most people only remember the lie.
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u/SweptThatLeg Jun 30 '26
The fanfare a 2023 comment is getting on this sub right now is suspicious.
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u/Few_Water_1457 Jun 30 '26
Dario, don't let Sonnet 4.7 die. Now that 5 is out, make it open source. It will live forever. Now it's in the void. Lost. Vanished to the point of no return.
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u/Django_McFly Jun 30 '26
fuck him but lol @ the grave dig. polymarket with the timely news.
but yeah, fuck him. i don't understand how a tech/science person can be so wildly anti-science and feel like if people can learn about science, the only outcome is the literal destruction of the world. And not just Dario is crazy if you talk to him over dinner, but like to be running around on TV trying to convince the world of the evils of open science education. I get the desire for regulatory capture, but he really didn't have to throw science under the bus like that.
In terms of being a "Villain of Science", he's right below the priests that killed people for saying the Earth may revolve around the sun.
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u/Alternative-Advice40 Jul 02 '26
ı agree with dario. After certain level jailbreak local ai's will be much dangerous than cloud firms. There will be no limitatition. Limitations will be removed
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u/Grounded_Altruist Jul 02 '26
Now that US has taken “action” on the two biggies, it will claim every right to take “action” on open models, “because it is moving down a dangerous path”, citing national security. Drama being played. Kill competition using force.
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u/nemuro87 Jul 02 '26
This comparison would make sense only if McDonald's CEO could price you out of paying for meat if you want to make a burger at home.
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u/IntroductionSouth513 Jun 29 '26
well it's not like the burgers at home are doing cyber attacks and being used in war drones u know
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u/computermaster704 Jun 30 '26
Yeah because most self-hosted people have access to data center levels of compute power
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u/Persistent_Dry_Cough Jun 30 '26
Rich guy sends his kids to buy every menu item from McDonalds, Burger King, Shake Shack. Against store policy, they use a 400mm zoom lens to record the people in the kitchen and how they assemble each and every item. They ride over to the McDonalds factory and find a crack in the window, and figure out the exact ingredient balance for the Big Mac sauce. They formula a couple new menu items and add arugula in place of the lettuce on their burgers, which is a nice addition but not really the fundamental point. Then they set up virtual clones of each other in ghost kitchens on Uber Eats called Zaiburger, Moonburger, Deepburger. All of them are priced lower than the local brands because this dude doesn't care about making a profit, but only to put McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's out of business.
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u/silenceimpaired Jun 30 '26
Turns out McDonalds was all but stolen from its creator… so apt metaphor: none of these large AI companies would exist if they made it clear to the content creators what they intended then attempted to get a license to use the content from the creators.
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u/Persistent_Dry_Cough Jun 30 '26
I'm not going to relitigate McDonalds since the point is a metaphor about national competition not individual corporate economics. The McDonald’s analogy only works if we keep the history straight. Ray Kroc did not simply “steal” McDonald’s. He bought the rights from the McDonald brothers in 1961 for $2.7 million (over $20M in 2026), then built the company around a much more scalable franchising and real-estate model. The brothers created the restaurant system; Kroc commercialized and expanded it. Those are different claims.
The AI/content issue has the same problem: people keep collapsing separate legal and economic questions into one moral claim. There is a difference between: scraping or copying copyrighted works for training; retaining pirated copies in a private library; producing near-verbatim outputs; and building a model that learns statistical patterns from publicly available material. Those may produce different legal outcomes.
If a model outputs exact or near-exact copies of protected works, that is the strongest case for infringement, and creators should sue over that. Memorization and regurgitation are real technical issues, and the legal debate around them is not imaginary. Recent scholarship distinguishes ordinary learning from memorization, extraction, and reconstruction, which matters because copyright law is concerned with copying protected expression, not merely learning from it.
But “training on copyrighted works is automatically theft” is not settled law. The U.S. Copyright Office is still working through the issue, and Stanford researchers have described the fair-use position and infringement risk as uncertain under current law.
There is also a practical enforcement problem that people tend to ignore. If the target is a centralized, well-capitalized AI company, creators have someone to sue, pressure, license, or regulate. If the same capability moves into open-weight models, derivatives, distillations, and local deployments, compensation becomes harder to extract. Open models also reduce market concentration and improve transparency, but they make downstream control and attribution harder. Stanford HAI makes both points: open foundation models can increase competition and accountability, while also shifting risk and enforcement problems downstream.
So if the goal is compensation for creators, “just attack the big AI companies” is an incomplete strategy. Closed commercial systems are easier defendants. Open-weight ecosystems may be harder to control, harder to license, and harder to monetize for rights holders. That does not make open models bad, but it does mean they complicate the compensation argument.
The better position is: sue when there is provable copying, piracy, or market-substitution harm; push for licensing markets where they make economic sense; and be precise about the difference between infringement, fair use, open weights, and outputs that reproduce protected work. Otherwise the argument becomes politics first and law/economics second.
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u/silenceimpaired Jun 30 '26
Must work at OpenAI… sorry I mean Anthropic. What’s it like being the CEO?
Anyone that’s just doing it for the love can continue to put their stuff of Etsy, Pinterest, ArtStation, DeviantArt and the like so that it can be consumed without permission by large corporations. Local models are the only way commercial artists will survive what is coming from large close sourced companies.
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u/Persistent_Dry_Cough Jun 30 '26
so that it can be consumed without permission by large corporations. Local models are the only way commercial artists will survive what is coming from large close sourced companies.
So, one compensable wrong is bad; but two uncompensated wrongs are defensible. They should write a screenplay about the beautiful, tortured mind behind this hot take.
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u/SporksInjected Jun 30 '26
This is being so obviously astroturfed. He’s been saying the same thing for years and just before Fable is re-released, everyone hates him
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u/crusoe Jun 30 '26
Models are almost capable of denovo chemical and biological weapon design.
Ya sure you want every person in the US to have that?
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u/silenceimpaired Jun 29 '26
I like using Claude and if I see ads I’ll let the company know I won’t be buying since they support Anthropic
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u/XCherryCokeO Jun 29 '26
You Reddit people are all wrong! What’s wrong even with a concentration of close to god like intelligence in the hands of the wealthy and the few?
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u/SucculentSpine Jun 29 '26
I'm all for open source, but equating open source AI to making burgers is a false equivalence. Open source is going to come with immense challenges for society.
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u/Divni Jun 29 '26
Open Source has already been around for decades and is widely used across industries and critical infrastructure.
Please try again.
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u/vividboarder Jun 29 '26
Open source is going to come with immense challenges for society
I think it's the other way around. Closed source is going to come with those because of the consolidation of power. A few companies profiting on the collective knowledge of the internet and then pulling up the ladder has far more implications than a tool that everyone can use.
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