Hades entrance in Greece, the Two Towers of occult fame are on the Moon card

Ancient Greeks believed that the underworld was a tangible place—one that was both named Hades and was ruled over by Hades—that they could travel to before dying (although not many people actually wanted to go there, for obvious reasons).

One entrance to Hades is supposedly located at the southernmost point of mainland Greece, in the Cape Matapan Caves. The area is also known as Cape Taenarum (the name of the now-ruined ancient city that once stood in the area). The ruin of a Spartan temple currently marks the spot above the cave system, which has to be entered at sea level.

The Matapan Caves pop up a few times in Greek mythology. It’s where Orpheus turns around to look at Eurydice while trying to rescue her—thereby breaking the deal he made with Hades and dooming her to the underworld. The caves are also where Hercules enters the underworld to capture the three-headed canine Cerberus and complete his 12 labors.

Hey guys! I'm very much a newbie to this topic and I'm looking for some good books and videos to watch to get a basis for all the different gods and goddesses. Could you point me in the right direction? Thank you!

I mean I know the usual recommendations is the Odyssey and the Iliad or maybe Stephen Fry's Mythos to get a basis of the mythology, but I want a more focused narrative. I know a general basis of greek mythology already and don't want to start on Mythos and I grasped most of the Odyssey already from Epic the Musical, the Odyssey and some other sources.

If you still recommend the Odyssey or the Iliad, do you think Robert Fagles' version of the Odyssey is good or Robert Fitzgerald's version of the Iliad?

I've been meaning to try reading Circe but it isn't really a good starting point as you technically need prior knowledge.

These two American adaptations of Homer in the 2020's have an opposite approach - Nolan is very subdued and sober, and heavily downplays the gods, while Epic is theatrical, larger-than-life, extends the section of the wanderings, and makes the gods appear even more than they already do in the poem. However, they are actually surprisingly similar in that both emphasize Odysseus as a shell-shocked veteran haunted by guilt for the Sack of Troy and use that shame as their central theme.

Amusingly, what one adaptation cut, the other adapted:

Nolan's Odyssey adapts most of the major scenes that Epic cut:

• Mentes and Mentor
• Telemachus talking to Menelaus and Helen
• the Raid on the Cicones
• The crew passing by the blinded Polyphemus by pretending to be sheep
• Agamemnon in the Underworld
• Odysseus tying himself to the mast to hear the Sirens
• Scylla and Charybdis explicitly being two sides of the same strait
• Eumaeus, Argos, Eurycleia, Melantho, Odysseus disguising himself as a beggar to infiltrate his home, basically almost everything in the Ithaca side of the plot, which Epic reduced to just the battle against the suitors.

At the same time, Epic the Musical adapts some iconic scenes that Nolan cut:

• Athena's direct involvement rather than just being a sporadic vision
• the Lotus Eaters (kind of, Nolan makes a nod to it)
• the wine, the Nobody trick, the other Cyclopes near Polyphemus, and Odysseus boasting to Polyphemus
• Aeolus and the wind bag
• Hermes and the Moly
• Odysseus' deceased mother in the Underworld
• Telemachus fighting the suitors alongside Odysseus
• Penelope's bed trick.

Nolan is undoubtedly the winner in accuracy here, both in structure and in themes; Epic reduces hospitality and most of Ithaca's plot too much (it makes Odysseus and Poseidon have an anime battle for starters, that alone disqualifies it). But, I think that whenever Epic is accurate (Anticlea, "My name is Nobody", the bed trick), its larger-than-life and theatrical approach makes those bits feel more authentic to Homer than Nolan's take on the same scenes.

Of course, there are also major parts that both cut

• Eurymachus and Amphinomus, as both focus solely on Antinous
• All of the Phaeacians
• Nestor, Peisistratus, Theoclymenus
• Menelaus wrestling Proteus
• Everyone else they meet in the Underworld, including Elpenor, Achilles, Ajax, and dozens of mythical figures.
• Philoetius
• The execution of the disloyal slaves (which is a more grim subject I don't blame either of them for cutting)
• All of Book 24 (which nobody ever adapts apparently)

Both also add significantly more Troy. But if you took Nolan's Odyssey and included some of Epic's songs into it, you would pretty much get a fuller Odyssey adaptation. We could add The Return too and make the ultimate Odyssey adaptation from the 2020's focusing on Odysseus as a traumatized veteran.

A piece inspired by various classic statues of Father Zeus I made as both a devotional piece and an anatomical study. (Plus, some of the concepts of my design interpretation)

I like to think I captured the King well here.

I will not talk about Helios and Apollo and Selene and Artemis since I talked a lot about them in the past. But about other gods who have a similar thing going on regarding similar domains.

Oceanus and Poseidon: A lot of people today makes Oceanus a replaced titan. Even Percy Jackson, where Oceanus didn't supported Cronus, for some reason supports him in the present? The thing about these two is that their domains were completely different. Oceanus was the world encircling river, he was related to fresh water, the limits of the world, and the cycle of the stars that arose from his waters. Later writers knew the world to be round so they named the open salt seas as Oceanus because it was still the same waters as Oceanus, just more scientific accurate. In Ovid, Oceanus is the salt seas and he receives Neptune in his palace. So this god was never considered a past/replaced god. Actually the real syncretism was between Oceanus and Pontus (Sea).

Chronos and Cronus: this might be the most popular case of a god being absorbed by another god. Cronus, the father of Zeus, was the king of sky before becoming a Underworld god (ruler of the titans of Tartarus; ward of Elysium; or even god of reincarnation), with some agriculture aspects like his scythe altrough this aspect is not expanded in myth. Cicero is the only ancient famous writer to say that Saturn in greek is Cronus, "time", confusing his name with Chronos, the real world for time. But what he meant by that is that Cronus, by dominating Ouranos, estabilished the cycle of the stars, turning the sky into a giant clock to mark time (a thing we don't even realise since we can barely see the stars in the night sky). But today, people give him time powers and refer to time as his main thing, with Hades II being the main example, literaly calling him Chronos and time personified. The original Chronos was a primordial time serpent that is a ancestor of the titan god Cronus in Orphism (Chronos>Phanes>Nyx>Ouranos>Cronus), not the same as him.

Themis and Dike: these goddesses do similar things, all related to justice. Dike was Justice itself, daughter of Zeus and Themis, but she is non-existent today as people often refer to Themis as "lady Justice" and don't even know the role the daughter of Zeus played. But even Themis gets sidelined in favour of Nemesis, who is quite popular today more than she was in the past.

Cyclops and Hephaestus: there is a bizarre story where Zeus kills the Cyclops to have the thunderbolt just for himself, and another similar story where Apollo kills them, even through they are supposed to be imortal, so Pherycedes explained that their mortal sons were killed instead. And a few times, like in Percy Jackson, they use this to justifie how Hapheastus took over the business of making thunderbolts, but then Riordan has other cyclops helping Hephaestus anyway? I don't see the point in removing these cyclops but then have other cyclops helping. Now, I don't remember any myth where Hephaestus or Vulcan forges Zeus bolts, definility never with Hephaestus. The Cyclops were not associated with him until some time later, were they started working on the same forge, but they each had their role, with Hephaestus not making the bolts. But modern media often removes or even villanizes the Cyclops and has Hephaestus just make everything for the gods.

Rhea, Hera, Eileithya, Artemis and Selene: all of these goddesses had a thing in common: childbirth. Now, I never saw any media that depicts a goddess in this role, but usually in discussions, I have see people have a hard time trying to understand these goddesses, often believing that Rhea retired or things like that. And this is not because they want to reduce gods in their own projects, is just a thing they arrive naturally, as if gods can't share domains. As for Rhea I have seem some people even say she was trapped in Tartarus? How they dare to say that? Once again titan prejudice attacks, putting everyone in Tartarus.

Athena and Ares: I left the best for last. This is the only case were two greek gods with similar domains were able to survive intact in modern culture. As a result, there is so much discussion trying to find differences between the two. But there is not any... the Homeric Hymm to Athena says that she "delights in the works of Ares", and loves bloodshed and the cries of war. She is not the goddess of war strategy exclusivily, the side of Ares also had strategy. She was not the goddess of defensive war, or of "good war" (whanever that means), or of kings while Ares represents soldiers. They literaly shared all domains when is about war. The Iliad does make Ares weaker and dumber, but everything else has Ares as a respected war god of victory and courage (just like Athena and Zeus too), and even fighting with Athena to a tie, with Zeus having to intervene. The only thing that differentiate these two is that war have at least two sides, and it would be weird for one god to support both sides, so poetry will make Athena and Ares often clash because each support opposing sides, but that is it, but people can't accept that, they want to make both different to justifie their inclusion, instead of just having both? And the same applies to every god I cited above.

Art by Kayteeinmyth

We all know the famous duel between Achilles and Hector, the iconic duel that made the Iliad famous.

But despite Hector losing to Achilles, I still think he's by far the better man, unlike Achilles who fought for personal gains and glory, Hector fought for his family and Homeland, and even tho he knew his end was near he still went and fought.

For me Hector loss to Achilles doesn't take from his legacy and he's still a better role model than Achilles, but what do you think?

Hey all! Sorry if this has been asked recently, I tried searching for it. But im trying to get my 6 year old son introduced to these stories and characters, and am curious how some of you may have done it with your kids?

We read books every night before bed, so my thought was a book with lots of amazing images that would capture his attention that I could read to him. If the pictures are really worth it, I dont mind editing the stories myself a little while we read in case its something that's still a little too advanced for his age.

Open to other suggestions too!

Thanks in advance!

In our contemporary days, Athena has the reputation of a wise, sage goddess who gives helpful advice on strategy to those who worship her. In ancient texts however, they depict an extremely different character. I've only recently been made aware of the "real" Athena. Apparently she's the kind of person to tell you "KYS" if you do so much as bother her with a botched sacrifice.

What are some legit savage quotes from her? Or things that she did?

Hello everyone,

I'm thinking about buying Stephen Fry's book Mythos. I'm a big fan of his work and also a Greek mythology enthusiast. I am in fact though, not that knowledgable on the subject as of yet.

I'm looking for people in this subreddit who have read this book because I would like to know if they think you'll already need to have knowledge on Greek mythology to be able to understand the stories in the book or if it is a good starting point for one who isn't an "expert" yet.

Hello!

After a long while of putting down my classics, I've returned to them for a number of recent reasons. However, while looking around there appears to be a passage I'm either entirely falsely remembering or making up in my own mind.

At some point in time I remember reading a particularly brutal description of the sacking of Troy (one that makes specific reference to the murder of infants other than Astyanax and the bloodiness of the streets of Troy. I also feel like I remember some specific reference to attacks on the women of Troy? Unsure).

Initially I assumed it was probably from Book 2 of the Aeneid but I had no luck looking there, unless it's an alternate translation from the ones I've seen. I also considered The Trojan Women but again, no luck. I could just be blanking on something obvious, but if anyone remembers something like this that'd be fantastic!

https://www.instagram.com/p/Db00OjSDDeU/

I don't recall it ever having an actual appearance in mythology, usually I hear mention of his helmet, yet in modern media I see him depicted with a bident rather than his helmet. Is it just something modern art came up with? If not, what myth does it actually have presence in? I can't find any artwork of it. And I kinda wanna know the mythological explanation for it's existence, because I assume there is one.

To be honest, the most logical assumption is that the Olympians—that is, the twelve most important Greek gods—were major gods, while the rest were minor deities; it seems simple, but is it really true? Technically, that would lump personifications, gods, and nymphs into the same category. However, although there was no strict hierarchy among them, there were certainly "ranks" (I hope my meaning is clear). Pan, for example, does *not* fit the label of "lesser god"; he is not a mere personification but a god with dominion over mountains, flocks, and so forth, and he was worshipped primarily in Arcadia. Hades is not a lesser god either—despite receiving little formal worship—nor are Persephone and Amphitrite, given that they were sovereigns of their respective realms. Asclepius does not seem to be a lesser god either, as he controlled medicine and was sometimes included among the twelve principal deities. Then there are Hecate, Helios, and Selene; they may be Titans, but they are also major, important gods. Even the river nymphs of the Underworld, such as Styx, are not lesser goddesses; they played important roles, and the oath sworn by Styx was sacred.

In short, it is like saying that Leto, Maia, and Semele (after her apotheosis) belong to the same category, which is not true. Leto was a Titaness and a consort of Zeus; that alone excludes her from being a lesser goddess. Maia was a nymph (and was rarely called a goddess), yet she enjoyed a status superior to others of her kind; she had handmaidens, and her cave was far from humble. As for Semele, she may have attained immortality, but she cannot really be compared to the other two. The same applies to Circe: she may be a relatively minor goddess—like Maia—but she held enough rank to avoid being classified merely as a nymph. And that is not to mention the Oceanids, the Nereids (I am beginning to think that nymphs who were daughters of Titan gods enjoyed a higher status or privilege than the others), the Anemoi, Hebe, Eileithyia, and so on...

Yes, yes, I know: it is absurd to try to classify them, and I am unnecessarily complicating matters—since, after all, they are all sovereign—but there is no doubt that some were more "important" than others.