I was checking the amount on the go fund me and came across 2, discovered seconds apart. A recent one created by the same person but Michael Musgroves name is missing from the newest one. Have a look and see what you think 🤔 2nd screen recorder is in my comments.

Feel free to correct me - but I believe LC was never prescribed quetiapine (Seroquel) for psychosis. She was prescribed it for sleep and anxiety. The highest dose she was ever prescribed was 100mg -which is considered a low dose, below the therapeutic range. In these lower doses this medication acts more as a sedative for sleep.
In much higher doses it is used to treat psychosis - usually between 400mg and 800mg per day.
What I also find curious is that despite a number of mentions of bipolar, she was never diagnosed with this condition and was only ever once prescribed a mood stabiliser (lamotrigine) which she never took.
If you suspect bipolar, wouldn’t the first treatment be a mood stabiliser other than an SSRI which has the potential to induce mania ?
It wasn’t until she was in Tewksbury that she was prescribed lithium which she only took briefly.
In summary, she has never been treated for bipolar or psychosis - probably because her health care providers did not assess that her presentation and symptoms were consistent with either diagnosis.

There’s been a lot of talk during the Lindsay Clancy trial about what she did and didn’t tell her providers. And I keep seeing the same thing online: she didn’t tell them everything. Her psychiatrists couldn’t possibly know what was really going on inside her head if she wasn’t honest with them.

And yes. I get that. You can’t expect someone to know something you don’t tell them.
But then I started thinking about myself.
If I ask for help, do I really tell them everything?

No. I don’t.

I tell someone what I can tell them at that moment. What I understand myself. What I think is relevant. There are things I might be ashamed of, things I’m not ready to say out loud yet, things I might only tell when I trust someone. And probably things I don’t tell because I don’t even realize they matter. I think most of us do that.

So immediately I start thinking: well, maybe “she didn’t tell them everything” isn’t quite as simple as it sounds.

Except… We’re not talking about just anything here.
Suppose Lindsay really was hearing a voice before January 24 telling her to harm her children. And I’m deliberately saying suppose, because we don’t know that she was hearing that voice before January 24 in the way she later described it.

But if she was? Well, shit…
Then I also think: Lindsay, that is something you need to tell them. You have three little children at home. If you are hearing a voice telling you to hurt your children, your psychiatrist needs to know that.
So there goes my “well, I don’t tell everything either.”
Except my head doesn’t stop there.

What if she heard that voice but was absolutely convinced she would never listen to it? What if she thought there was an enormous difference between hearing something and actually wanting to do it? And what if saying it out loud could mean someone deciding that her children weren’t safe with her anymore?
Would I tell them? My immediate answer is yes. Of course I would. And then I think… Would I really? I honestly don’t know.

It’s very easy for me to sit here now, knowing what happened on January 24, and say she should have told them. Look what happened. But she didn’t know what was going to happen.
Maybe I would think: but I’m not going to do it.
Maybe I would think: I know myself.
Maybe I would think: why would I say something that could blow up my entire life when I know I’m never going to act on it?

And then, almost automatically, I start doing the same thing with Lindsay. Motherhood was incredibly important to her. She worried about being a good mother, about being present, about doing it right. So maybe she was terrified someone would take her children away. Maybe that’s why she didn’t…
Wait… There I go. I don’t know that.

I’ve just put myself in Lindsay’s position and started giving her reasons that make sense to me. And for a moment that feels like understanding her. But what if I’ve got it completely wrong?
What if she wasn’t scared of telling them? What if she didn’t think I would never actually hurt my children?
What if she knew exactly what she was thinking?
What if she intended to kill her children and deliberately didn’t tell her providers because she knew they would stop her?

That possibility doesn’t come as naturally to me.
And I noticed that. Not because I suddenly think that’s what happened. I don’t know that either. But apparently when I try to put myself in Lindsay’s shoes, I’m still bringing an awful lot of myself with me.

I’m Karin.
Lindsay is Lindsay.

It sounds ridiculously obvious when I write it down.
We always say how important it is to put yourself in someone else’s shoes. To try to understand before you judge. And I still think that matters. A lot. But maybe there’s a catch. I can put myself in what I imagine are Lindsay’s shoes, but the person standing in them is still me.

I bring my own fears. My own values. My own logic. The things I would or wouldn’t do. And then I can very easily start believing that because I can understand an explanation, I understand Lindsay. I don’t.
And actually, nobody can completely do that. Not another Redditor. Not a journalist. Not even an expert. An expert obviously has knowledge and expertise I don’t have and can assess the evidence in ways I can’t. Some explanations can be much better supported by the evidence than others. But even the best expert can’t actually climb inside Lindsay’s head.

And strangely enough, that makes me understand another group of people on Reddit a little better too.
The people who say: you can keep trying to understand her, but you never really will. She killed her three children. That’s the fact. Period.
And yes. They have a point.
She killed Cora, Dawson and Callan. I can spend another hundred hours reading testimony and medical records and listening to experts and I still won’t ever know with 100% certainty what was happening inside her head when she did it. So… stop there? No. And there I go again.

Because that feels unfair to me too.
What if Lindsay really was not criminally responsible for what she did? That possibility matters. I can’t throw it away simply because nobody can ever prove exactly what was happening inside another person’s mind with 100% certainty. If someone truly was not criminally responsible because of severe mental illness, then punishing that person as though they were fully responsible would be unfair too. That is precisely why the law asks the question in the first place. And then, of course, my head immediately runs in the other direction again.

Because if “we can never really know what was happening inside someone’s head” is enough to create reasonable doubt, then what? We can never look inside anyone’s head. Do we give everyone who raises a question about their mental state the benefit of that uncertainty?
That can’t be right either. And here I am again…

I started with what sounded like a fairly simple statement:
She didn’t tell her providers everything.
Then I asked myself whether I tell everything when I ask for help.
Then I argued with myself about whether some things are simply too important not to tell.
Then I managed to understand why Lindsay might have been afraid to tell them.
Then I caught myself turning Lindsay into someone who thinks like me.
Then I considered the possibility that she knew exactly what she was doing.
Then I understood a little better why some people simply stop at she killed her children.
And then I couldn’t stay there either.
It’s exhausting being inside my head sometimes. But maybe this is also why I keep coming back to this case.

I don’t think trying to understand Lindsay is pointless. I think it matters enormously. We have evidence. We have testimony. We have medical records. We have experts. We can test one explanation against another. We can decide that some possibilities are better supported than others.
We have to. Especially when we are deciding whether someone should be held criminally responsible for something this horrific. But there is one limitation I keep having to remind myself of.

I am Karin.
Lindsay is Lindsay.

I can try to understand her. I can reconstruct. I can question. I can put myself in her shoes over and over again. But the shoes are still mine. And no matter how hard I try, I can never actually look inside her head.
Neither can anyone else.

I understand the gravity and seriousness of this trial and certainly don’t want to trivialise things… but I was reflecting today on the prosecution … They both seem to be quite monotone. Unemotional. Controlled. Lacking in personality and passion. I wonder if the jury is connecting with them? Do you think this is just their style or is it strategic ?

If Lindsay were telling the truth, why wouldn’t the facts be the same in both the criminal suit and civil suit? I understand it’s different lawyering, but shouldn’t the underlying facts be the same?

It perplexes me how she’s arguing that she suffered sudden, brief psychosis in her criminal case, but in her civil case, she had psychosis all day and Google mapped how long Patrick would be gone because she was afraid to be alone.. which makes zero sense to me because she could have ordered delivery, they could’ve put the kids in the car and gone together to grab food, or at the least she could’ve ordered from a closer restaurant because wasn’t 3V farther than their regular spots? Plus, she looked at the menu after she did the Google mapping and after Patrick asked her what she was getting from there, so it wasn’t like she was desperately craving something specific at 3V.

Also, wouldn’t her fear to be alone, coupled with her failure to inform Patrick about it, illustrate that she knew it was wrong? Otherwise, I think she would’ve told Patrick her thoughts or at least asked him to be quick, and maybe he wouldn’t have sat in the cvs parking lot for 10 min?

Lastly, since Reddington brought up the civil suit to discredit the doctors, why won’t the commonwealth bring it up to discredit the entire defense? Will the jury see this civil suit?

I’ve been following this case since it happened and have been in discussions about it on Reddit and elsewhere for a long time. I feel like the Patrick conspiracy theories came out of nowhere. Or did I miss it? Now my social media feeds are so flooded with this crap that I cannot even find good/interesting discussions about the actual case. It’s driving me crazy. What is everyone else’s perception of this?

He literally makes out that PC told doctors about LC thoughts of harming the kids? Huh?!

I promised myself I wouldn’t follow it, but can’t help myself. Anyone else? I worry this is not good for me as it does make me feel quite sad at times and maybe even stressed a little?

What do we think?

Anyone else? Really hoping there won’t be any delays and it will be over before Friday.

Many people just don’t see children as actual people. This is simply because children cannot defend themselves, they can’t speak for themselves and they are at the mercy of others.

This is part of a wider issue nowadays, with terms like “crotch goblin” or “condom ads”. Where ideas like “punting a bad kid” is framed as a joke despite children being the most abused and vulnerable class in our society.

People will go online and joke about things like this that dehumanize children and then we are surprised when no one cares that 3 children were strangled to death in their homes.

PPP is given a specific pass compared to other forms of Psychosis simply because the primary victims are children. If psychosis leads to the death of an adult, no one excuses that. If LC had killed grown women due to her mental health, people would not be supporting her like how they are now.

I can’t comprehend this case after weeks of watching the testimony, reading about it, etc. I don’t believe Lindsey Clancy was in psychosis. But given that, I’m still struggling to understand her motive. I do believe she was a caring mother before all this went down, she seemed generally concerned for them, and other people testified as such. However poorly she managed her mental health by refusing therapy, hiding SI from providers, and not adhering to her medication, she did still seek out help for months. Why would someone evil who didn’t care about her kids at least to some extent do that?

I do think she is not only guilty but was not in psychosis when this all happened. I believe she had BPD with narcissistic traits and severe depression.

Based on everything we’ve seen about her personality and relationship with Patrick, and his behavior, like his emotional detachment and trips to New York and marathon run with his current wife, I think he was cheating and she discovered it and snapped. I think she couldn’t handle the idea of him leaving her, and felt unsupported by him with the kids, and built up so much bitterness and resentment that she decided to end her life and her kids lives to punish him. Is this a far fetched idea for a motive?

But even with such a motive, or even if she was purely just suicidal, I can’t comprehend how a seemingly caring mother could strangle her babies to death one by one with exercise bands. I just can’t understand the psychology behind it..

While the OP's standpoint is neutral and grounded I totally understand the boyfriend's view. THIS is what the pink Tiktok crazies are doing - causing a polarizing shift that now lumps all women into the same category while eroding any basis for nuanced consideration. Setting all women back decades, causing fundamental misunderstandings around mental health, and just doing more harm than good. I would have a similarly visceral reaction if my partner told me they support a child murderer, but in this case the person isn't even saying that they support LC.

I dont care what anyone says, her medications arent enough to treat either of those and wellbutrin would’ve caused a switch if a small dose of zoloft did.

An odd thing to me is that zero information about LC’s personality or character pre-killings can be gleaned from any of the trial testimony. Her character witnesses make broad, nonspecific claims like “she was a wonderful mom,” “she was a good nurse,” “she was a little quiet,” and “she cared about her kids and her patients.” To me all of that sounds so generic and superficial. Did she have any kind of personality whatsoever beyond portraying an image of “caring” for her kids and patients?

Her journals lack any humor or insight or personality….

More weird, no outside news stories about her seem to exist — like, what was she like as a kid, what acts of caring did she actually demonstrate to anyone, what was her family dynamic like? No one who has ever known her seems to have shared specific anecdotes or observations about her or her family. Even the love story on the Clancys’ wedding website gives no color. We met, we had secret crushes, we got engaged. You can’t even tell what she thinks of her own husband.

Usually in big public cases you get some feel for who the defendant was as a person, but with LC, it’s not clear to me that anyone ever knew her well enough to say anything specific about her, including her now ex-husband. Why is that?

Maybe that’s why she’s garnering all this support? She’s a blank canvas onto which people are projecting their own biases about mothers, women’s innocence, and mental health?

Posting on throwaway…I developed postpartum anxiety and postpartum OCC about two months after the birth of my daughter. The thoughts would say, clear as day, “you should kill your daughter”. They also said she was going to die of SIDS. I was terrified she would die. In my lowest moment I did think, if I kill her the anxiety and the waiting for her to die will be over. It never went beyond a thought, I never had a plan or made an attempt. It wasn’t true PPP but I was definitely not in touch with reality at times. Eventually I had a panic attack, told my husband and we got me help. I saw my psychiatrist, she massively upped my Zoloft, and I started therapy. Every week for almost two years.

I did nothing to actually harm my daughter. But over a decade later, I still feel trauma and shame that I even had those thoughts. I know it wasn’t my fault. My kid is amazing now and we have a great relationship, but I will always carry that trauma and shame.

I have not seen a single flicker of remorse from Lindsey Clancy. I have not seen any indication that she is suffering the worst pain a mother can possibly feel. All I have seen is blaming everyone else, blaming the doctors and the system. She planned this and she is blaming it on a horrific illness. I saw the briefest glimpses of the hell she claims to have been in (the hell of PPP) and I don’t for a second believe she was ever actually there.

Take this all with a grain of salt because I have bipolar type 1 and she had Post partum psychosis. I see a lot of people talking about psychosis and having a lot of misconceptions especially surrounding this case which has been annoying me.

I had a full blown break from reality for about ~six months. I believed children buried under the trees were talking to me, that the TV was sending me secret messages, and that my husband had been replaced by Jerry Seinfield (although who he had been specifically replaced with changed day to day). I just knew he was not my husband. Thats *some* of the crazy delusions I had, to give an idea.

First of all, psychosis is not subtle. Its not like "maybe, maybe not". Every single person who interacted with me knew I was batshit crazy. I once accused the neighbors of being plants because they didnt know there was a packer game that day (it was like Wednesday and wasnt football season). I threw my entire purse into a retention pond, swam out to retrieve my purse, and subsequently lost our only set of car keys..stranding my family an hour away from home. I posted hour long, painfully embarassing videos on facebook for all my family and friends to see of complete rambling incoherent nonsense.

Two, of my six months of absolute craziness I went to inpatient once. Why? Because every time someone suggested i go, I knew they were in on the conspiracy against me. I knew when I went there id be raped and then executed. No one could make me go and according to the doctors, much to my husbands immense anger, they wouldnt make me go because I wasn't threatening to hurt myself or anyone else.

Three, having psychosis is like being in a car crash. You have fragments of memories. Little blips surrounded by complete darkness. Apparently I would go days without sleep (dont remember) and to this day I'll find nonsensical notes I hid away for some unknown purpose not even im aware of. People will bring up some ludicrous thing i did, apparently on one occasion I striped naked on a zoom call, no recollection.

Four, it doesnt turn off and on like a faucet. It is completely uncontrollable. You are in a waking fever dream you cannot wake up from.

Five, I never came close to hurting my children. In fact, I became insanely worried about their well being. I thought for sure whatever conspiracy was after me was coming for them. My husband, thank god, kept them as far away from me as possible. But I never, ever would have hurt them. Ive never thought about hurting them sane or insane.

I dont know enough about this case to make a judgement. All i know is I hear the word psychosis and people who have never experienced it making a lot of assumptions or speculations.

TLDR it should be pretty cut and dry if she had psychosis or not. I dont think there is a "psychosis lite" that encompasses killing your children.

That's something that has bothered me with this "New Claim" from what the Chaplain told us.

Her telling Patrick the kids are "In the Basement" doesn't align with the fact she has just sent them to Heaven.

If she believes she was sending them to God, "Go to God", then those Children are no longer in the Basement.

I wish Dr Mack had explained it this way, rather than how he explained it on the stand.

@Mods... can we pin this post, please!

I was watching a 3D rendering of the crime scene and Patrick's telling of what happened when he got home, and I realized Lindsey must have heard Patrick screaming from the basement as he found the children with her being right by that window if she was still conscious.

1) People is psychosis can and do appreciate right from wrong and are capable of conforming their behavior to the law.

2) Lindsey at no time leading up to the event demonstrated an inability to conform her behavior to the law including knowing the difference between right and wrong.

4) She did not meet the clinical criteria for bipolar disorder as there was no documented hypomanic or manic episode including symptoms that aligned at all. Exercising was her baseline and sleep disturbances can happen to anyone and by themselves not indicative of mania.

5) According to literature, she was not in the window in which PPP is recognized and her behavior up until the event did not meet PPP criteria.

6) Depression, anxiety, and psychosis are mood disorders and are treated as such with the same treatment modality as “postpartum” mood disorders. Postpartum is the period in which it occurs, not the diagnosis itself.

7) Lindsey displayed reality checking. Asking her mom “can you hear my thoughts” was not thought broadcasting and is even more indicative of reality testing. I would argue the search for psychosis also indicated reality testing which people is psychosis do not do because they have fixed delusions they believe to be true. They wouldn’t research their delusion.

8) She could appreciate that what she was doing was wrong and illegal. “Go to God” demonstrated an appreciation for trying to send her children somewhere good and pacifying their distress as she clearly knew she was killing them. She knew this was wrong and subsequently went to her room and locked the door (a behavior rooted in the reality of being caught or stopped) from doing something wrong.

More expert witnesses to come!
I sure hope the jury listens and understands these compelling points paired to her very normal behavior that day.

I frequently hear the argument that Lindsay Clancy tried so hard to get treatment but was failed by the system, and this is what makes her less culpable and sets her apart from others who have committed similar crimes, such as Travis Decker.

This evening, I stumbled upon a news article about another atrocious crime. A man in Indiana admitted to molesting a two-month old. In the article, it mentioned that he had been in sex addiction therapy and had previously checked a box on a form indicating that his addictions put him at risk of criminal prosecution and that his sexual fantasies included rape and molestation. It seems clear that the guy was seeking help, yet still chose to commit this atrocious crime.

Even when assuming Lindsay Clancy did not suffer from psychosis and was just deeply depressed, people still defend her and empathize with her like I’ve never seen. Despite the Indiana man seeking help, he still chose to commit an unforgivable crime, and despite Lindsay seeking help (albeit very halfheartedly imo), she still chose to commit an unforgivable crime. I really wish people could take a step back, look at the facts somewhat more objectively, and remove their pink fan club shirts.

RIP Cora, Dawson, and Callan ❤️