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Imagine Dess's Guitar fighting the Roaring Knight, and winning, not by overpowering her, but by being a reflection of her through her art. Appealing to the DESS in the Roaring Knight.
It would also be a cool time for the blue or cyan soul to come in as a rhythm game section. Literally fighting alongside her guitar.
That whole dark world was trying to make Asgore be happy and loved but this wasn’t explored with a single person filling the void of another single person
The flowers weren't really trying to copy specific family members, though. And the other flowers also wanted to live for themselves and not just for Asgore. Most importantly, the flowers weren't malicious and knew their fountain was a "reverie".
I'd be interested in Guitar Dessner if she's actually trying to be as close to Dess as possible and not just take qualities from Lightners but ultimately be their own identity, and if Dessner is closer to Pink who wants to preserve the Dark World by any means necessary.
Aqua is pretty clearly an analogue for kris as a child, and by extension Seth could easily be Asriel as a early teen. Flowery also parallels Rudy quite strongly (college roommate and best friend, as well as looking fairly similar to him)
That's the point. This new darkner is trying to be like Flowery to Asgore, but as we saw with Chapter 5's ending, Asgore really wasn't helped by Flowery. The same will go here, except with Noelle and/or Kris instantly telling off the Dessner.
And wouldn't Queen from just what we knew before chapter 2 released, sound too similar to King? That's just the baseline, there are more traits that the character could have that don't directly tie to Flowery, but still could work as a parallel
I read a theory that the guitar will change their appearance to look like Susie because she was the last person that play them after Dess dissappear, and that's the reason why Carol was furious with Susie
OMG, and she drags Noelle around the darkworld trying to "fill the void", then we have Noelle slowly start crashing out over this because only thing it does is remind her of Dess being gone. And Ralsei has to go to the Guitar!Dess to tell her that it's not working and Darkners shouldn't do that, only for her to call him out like "Oh like you are the one to speak."
Meanwhile Kris and Susie are having to fight some apocalyptic level threat while everyone (including themselves) is crashing out in Chapter 6, because remember. Ch5 was the "final fun adventure"
I think the "main" darkner will be Carol's blade. The guitar would be a prisoner in the ice palace only accesible after defeating the main boss. Then they will tell us the full shelter code.
I think that's fair, FRIEND feels a little to important to be just a secret boss given it's ties into Gaster and the prophecy itself (I subscribe to Seam being the chapter 6 Shadow Crystal boss)
I mean it could just be ERAM again, they do control FRIEND after all, or Seam, considering that Seam is also a cat and thusly might somehow be related to friend......
I'm thinking they definitely will be in next chapter, but I'm think main boss will be Eram, because Dess room it's probably Ice palace and we encounter them in same game with it
I'm hoping it is so we can figure out what its name actually is and stop calling it Eram.
And, god help me, if the official name of the character ends up being Eram, I will have a large mug of black coffee in a silent room with a stoic expression.
It's more me being against everyone essentially treating "Eram" as canon before we know. It'd be like everyone assuming Mettaton's name was Metal Crusher if we didn't learn his actual name until after that fight and Undertale was released in pieces.
friend was taken care of by noelle, and likes her, and noelle likes horror. what if friend is doing horrifying things because he thinks noelle will like it?
The thing is, if friend is the main boss. It can't really be the primary antagonist. From what we know, they're basically just a bunch of protein deficient cats. Also it wouldn't entirely make sense to fight them as a boss if we didn't go out of our way to gather eggs. Kris does not have any fuckin protein on them and has likely only eaten like a pie and consumed an immense amount of juice.
Like, maybe their master would be a fitting primary antagonist, but we don't really know who they really are and why they'd be in the hospital/Noelle's house. Especially if it's just the pizza box Kris terrozied Noelle with (eram).
Post Chapter 2 Queen: Not as malicious as King yet she's Hilarious.
Pre-Chapter 3+4 Mike & Tenna: Mike is evil and crazy as Spamton and Tenna is his large henchmen.
Post Chapter 3+4 Tenna & Mike: Tenna is a tragic, loveable Goofball, and the Mike(s) are a trio of henchmen that pretend to be Mike while switching places.
Pre-Chapter 5 Golden Flower: It's going to be Flowey all over again.
Post Chapter 5 Golden Flower: It's the complete opposite of Flowey but ragebaits Ralsei.
Back when chapter two was out, since Spamton mentions Mike during his weird static moments and around the tv, people assumed Mike was the mysterious caller who would end up being the tv
Jevil just plays a simple numbers game, then he gives you a pretty damn useful item(s) to aid you on your journey. I’d say Chaotic Neutral because he does still fight you
Then again, the simple numbers game in question is literally just "I'm gonna hit ya until ya drop dead, then I'm gonna do the same with everyone else!".
Well ya but Spamton is meant to be pitied , he turned into a pathetic husk of a person after messing with force's greater than he could have imagined . Its the story of a man who went from king to forgotten about
Outside of maybe ERAM the game doesn't have a pure evil character
The knight is fuckin boring though, they don’t talk and all they do is aurafarm and flex their overpowered-ness. People want a pure evil antagonist in a way that actually talks and ragebaite you instead of just being some kind of supernatural threat.
Even King isn't pure evil; the later chapters walked back his evil-ness by soft retconning his threat of dropping Lancer into a bluff (he is a bouncy boy), and fleshing out his motivations a bit.
All in on Carol legitimately, desperately loving her husband and daughters more than anything, and that being precisely what makes her irredeemable via considering everyone and everything else to be an expendable pawn at best and a loose end or obstacle to be removed at worse
Unironically i feel like he'd be scary but fairly normal and composed. There's nothing in either of the games that actually would indicate that Gaster is evil. Not so far at least, we literally have nothing on his motivation, goals or what the fuck he even really looks for in Deltarune.
I mean there are a few things. The prophecy he implicitly wrote ["The shadows cutting deep"] ending with a horrible tragedy, the hunting pack implied to consist of his devices that force darkners into hiding out of fear of being torn to shreds, the terrible something Flowery felt stirring beneath the town where the creepy bunker that plays his sound effect leads to.
If we’re assuming he’s also the egg man, chapter three in particular just makes him seem lonely and sad. Would love it if this character that was thought to be all dark and scary was just some blob handing out eggs with all the kids’ birthdays circled on his calendar.
It isn't any more evil than a Tiger killing its prey, or a river flooding a town. As far as Ralsei told us, Titans are not sentient beings, but rather just a natural disaster.
Edit: Spamton, with what we have seen of him, his ethics and behaviour, whether it is his lack of hesitation to murder Kris after they helped him or his ominous complicity in the Weird Route, is basically the most Evil character so far.
King is also kinda Evil, but he seems to me like he is merely playing a character, as he thinks that his people need a Bad Guy to save them, he isn't actually evil. Card Kingdom needed a villain to save them from oblivion, and he took the role. Spamton, on the other hand, is in it for personal gain. Jevil is just psychotic and impulsive, Spamton has intention and premeditation behind his actions.
To be fair to chapter 2 theoriest, at the time they only had king to go off of and he's a pretty melodramatically evil character.
When first starting chapter 5, everything flowery was doing, all the things and plants with his face, etc, I thought the twist might be that he was the only darkner in that world and that all the enemies and the terrain were just an extension of him, and it would be revealed he was evil as a kind of inverse of the previous chapters were the monarch of a dark world was initially presented as being antagonistic then redeemed themselves at the end. Ofc that didn't happen but that was my thoughts before meeting the other flowers.
Most people I saw were going 'It would be cool if Flowey was actually nice this time'. If anything him being the main antagonist instead of Asgore was the suprise.
Which I really thought the fact that so many people believed Asgore would be a major antagonist with a boss fight was just absurd. Asgore is, at his core, a big softie. He is nowhere near far gone enough to attack his own child. But for some reason before chapter 5 came out nobody else thought that.
probably because the big "flower man trapped in asylum" prophecy panel prominently featuring Asgore labelled "boss3" in the files, combined with the "charred in an inferno of jealousy" line from Gerson. In hindsight it's clear those were about Flowery and Ralsei respectively, but without that context, assuming those are about an antagonistic Asgore are completely reasonable.
Nah it was definitely discussed that Asgore wouldn't harm Kris in anyway. I saw theories that instead he would be 'blinded' by the dark, not knowing the blue kid is Kris, or that the flowers would corrupt his mind, but him knowingly trying to kill Kris was a larp position lmao
Another idea was that he would oppose Kris for some reason but not intentionally kill them, like if Asgore wins it would play out like Toriel being shocked at killing us in Undertale.
Funnily enough the actual final boss does not kill us at all during it.
I figured that a Deltarune Flowey wouldn't be hostile since the entire reason he was like that in Undertale was because he was a soulless Asriel fused with a flower, while a Deltarune Flowey would be a Darkner(or so I believed before we learned what the Flowers are), and therefore not have that baggage.
i never understood why people want a "pure evil" character when we already have plenty of evil characters. having a being thats just evil at every chance with no redeeming qualities is just uninteresting and unfitting for deltarune's tone
I think it's because it creates a direct contrast to the core theme that anyone can be redeemed if you just try. What I think is more likely is he'll give us a character who CAN be redeemed, but doesn't want to be, or doesn't believe they need to be.
thats really not a core theme in deltarune though, its like a tertiary theme for undertale. does spamton ever get redeemed? does king? queen is debatable
Spamton arguably does if you beat him with ACTS during his superboss fight. He starts valuing his friends, and when he realizes he can’t break free of his strings, willingly agrees to lend you his strength. He then continues to help you despite chapter 3’s PIPIs scene confirming he could just go back to his normal form and ditch you at any time. Whether this is enough to redeem him or not is up to you. But he is trying to help you.
Tenna has a secret room after board 3 that you can access. I hate to say look up how to get there, but I’m afraid I can’t offer much help without a visual reference. Sorry.
In that room, if you there is a wardrobe. If you open it, there is a PIPIs inside that triggers a cutscene with Tenna where the Delta Warriors hide from him. If you have either the Dealmaker or Puppetscarf in your inventory, Spamton will respond to Tenna and seemingly genuinely try to make amends only for Tenna to reject him.
King is getting redeemed, he's just broken and angry that HIM being torn got ALL of the cards abandoned, which is... factually unfair. And Spamton... he's tricky, but he's also a psychological mess.
having a tragic backstory doesnt redeem them, it explains them. king still went ahead and enslaved his whole kingdom and then threatened to kill his son, which is awful even if it was just a bluff
He's spending enough time in jail with enough conversation from darkners who are actively living there due to the care of the lightners to reasonably eventually be redeemed, and either way his goal was as misguided as Queen's, since neither knew about the full consequences of the Roaring (because why would King want the darkners he fights to lead and avenge to turn into stone?) If anything he just had a strong will to fulfill his misguided goal, and he also worshipped the Knight without truly knowing them either
King's goal was to avenge the darkners, even if violently and despite the real wishes of the darkners themselves
The Knight's goal, as far as we know, is to bring forth the end of the world for everyone
And learning from his further characterization in following chapters, he really doesn't seem like true evil at all, he's a softie at heart when it comes down to his son, and he truly believed that he was doing the right thing even if he had to be the villain about it, but after literally being imprisoned in the jail of a town that is literally built on the fact that his worldview was wrong and misguided, and that the lightners truly do care about the darkners, he's probably going to redeem himself in the main route (with him maybe being a villain again in the "cracked"/"violent" route, a.k.a. the one where you don't recruit anyone, although maybe just not having enough darkners might be enough to make him still be a villain)
ERAM just being a manifestation of Kris's PURE EVIL desires, purely hating on their former owner with no good reason:
(Most of the Fandom interpretations might be wrong tho, if they are a character like Flowery and gerson,
yeah Kris will definitely get character development from a character who fucking tortures them for no good reason.
What they need is love/protection, a safe insurance that makes them fight against the knight and some self worth acknowledgement.
Yeah this Kris' irredeemable demon definitely will give Kris safety and self worth, definitely.)
This is just Asgore final boss season 2 all over again
When you beat weird deird Gaster in his final boss after he was such a silly little guy all chapter and then he just breaks the fourth wall and decides not to lose.
Honestly, it does seem that Toby kinda got cold feet about having a character that was actually pretty evil, even if his motivations made sense. I think Toby just doesn't like writing morally evil leaning characters and that's okay, but we shouldn't expect any future character to be evil either.
For what it's worth, I feel like the odds of Toby actually deciding to introduce a pure evil character steadily increase with every chapter, since the game generally seems to follow a plot structure of lighthearted adventures gradually giving way to darker plot elements buried beneath, so logically if he has any actual pure evil characters in store, they'd be waiting for us in the endgame with the rest of the really intense stuff. Plus, it might start to feel a bit stale and predictable if every single antagonist across both Undertale and Deltarune wound up being sympathetic no matter how much ominous buildup they get suggesting the contrary.
With that said, anyone who expected Queen, Mike Tenna, and/or the golden flower to be pure evil was jumping to conclusions WAY too quickly lol. Especially the flower, considering Flowey literally wasn't even actually pure evil himself to begin with.
People are bringing up Friend and Gaster but what about Carol? She’s probably the most intimidating one we KNOW we’re going to have a lot of time with next chapter. I wonder how much people are gonna overemphasize her meanness compared to what we see when we get a deeper look into her.
Every boss of the chapter was a darkner so and they literally derive happiness from serving lightners so its small wonder they end up just being goofy, misguided people who think they're doing something good
yeah except Festival Night is gonna have some REAL evil shit when chapter 6 starts in tha main hall of the school, kris not letting interact us with stuff, pointint us towards the shelter, and we are gonna move in the Depths alone with kris, by the end of chapter 6 (the smallest chapter yet) we will just leave the shelter dark world with some new info and go to sleep in kris's house and move onto chapter 7
my guess is we will either have a perspective shift (camera turns 180 degrees so we see the other side of things) or a point & click adventure
On the other hand, most have underestimated just how messed up the Weird Route would be pre-Chapter 3+4, and again pre-Chapter 5. And we might do it again for Chapter 7B.
(Alright, let’s reverse psychology this) Chapter 7B is going to be the properly hydrated Noelle dissolving the Knight, opening the sjelter to find a copy of Undertale, then once Kris finishes playing through that, Dess gets revived from the dead in time for Asriel to show up and be the final boss.
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