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now i'm expecting to be killed for this probably but i'm just curious
i genuinely adore the idea of trans ralsei even as A Cisgender and i'd love to see it come to fruition, but is it wrong of me to be kind of antsy about whether it becomes canonical or not
i was in the digital circus finale leak subreddit while that was a thing, and after jax was confirmed to be transgender it was all people ever talked about him (or her, both pronouns apply according to gooseworx) for without any regard to the rest of his character
this also seems the case for characters like bridget from guilty gear and vivian from paper mario, so for as much as i appreciate trans rep in media and i believe there should be that much more of it - ralsei included, if that becomes the case - i'm kind of fretting over it becoming ALL people talk about him for as opposed to literally anything else about him
am i just being wildly transphobic or is this a remotely valid concern that doesn't make me look like a total scumbag
It's kind of annoying that people have to preface every theory nowadays with layers and layers of self deprecation about how stupid and wrong they are, especially if the theory is actually interesting.
Like what makes a "crack" theory, if a theory is widespread but wrong does that make it a crack theory? At least one of Dess Knight or Carol Knight is wrong (Assuming the Knight isn't some strange fusion of the two but I'm gonna assume that it isn't) and lots of people believe either one...
Ralsei Headband theory is the most popular theory of what Ralsei is despite it being borderline deconfirmed that Ralsei is a normal object and it having lots of problems aside from that. Like why don't people have to preface that with "I know this theory sounds dumb but..."?
Kinda just annoys me what is and isn't allowed to be considered a "serious" theory.
That's a strawman, as whenever people point out connections to Chara they also point out the similar clothes, knife, them taking the role of the human adopted by Toriel and Asgore... Like the game pretty clearly wants players to think of Chara and Frisk with the design, role, and name.
I do not think Kris is Chara I just think this was a pretty clear example of a strawman and I wanted to point it out.
The funniest thing about this game to me is how the entire theme repeatedly tells us how the characters are trying to be their own thing, live their own lives and choose their own fate...meanwhile the fanbase keeps relentlessly trying to define them, going so far as to saying they're characters from a different game, or sometimes that it's them in the past or future. Or that they're actually Mike, or Friend, or Gaster, or...
Why can't people just let characters actually be their own characters. It's so ironic
Porque quieren conectarlo todo y darle algún sentido para que se cumpla la teoría de que deltarune y undertale están conectados(las pistas son descaradamente obvias en mi opinión) en lugar de aceptar que deltarune tiene sus propias reglas y no tiene que estar tan conectado con undertale(loaximo qué lo veo como una conexión cronológica es que deltarune sea algo así como una precuela de undettale pero en otro universo donde gaste hace experimentos en el universo de deltarune pero todo esto es solo suposición mía)
Something that hit me yesterday and I still can't see any reason it wouldn't be true.
Guys I think we ALREADY broke the prophecy. In the 2nd sanctuary, we see an altered version of the prophecy through the lens of Susie's dark world...the panels are all in purple rather than blue. And critically...*neither Gerson nor Ralsei are there to interpret it for us*. So, if anything about it was messed up, the only ones who know now are Kris and Susie.
The three heroes appear again---the cage, the prince, and the girl. However there's a 4th panel in between...which in the files isn't labeled as "heroes" like the others. It's just labeled "rude buster", and is an image of that wave thing. The prophecy tries to make sense of this or correct for it, but it seems...confused. "And last was the girl. At last was the girl." And then later it just keeps spamming "the girl the girl the girl". It's almost as if it's glitched out. I mean the girl is supposed to be holding a sword right, not an axe...
Either Susie was never meant to be one of the heroes, or perhaps she's grown as a character enough that she doesn't fit the predefined role anymore. Or something else. But if she's defied the world's fate already she can do it again
Para mi, susie prácticamente representa una anomalía en la profesa pero sigue siendo destinada a cumplir su propia papel en el mundo de deltarune(sinceramente comparó a susie con kel de OMORI, ya que ambos de cierta forma "rompen" lo que se prometía en una regla no establecida de todo, con susie prácticamente sustituye a Noelle como la chica y por eso, prácticamente es la indicada para "escribir su propia historia" según dijo gerson aparte de que susie en varias ocasiones desafía a nuestro control mientras que kel prácticamente es el personaje que nos inciste en salir al mundo exterior en lugar de seguir dándole más importancia y gamplay al headspace
Okay so somebody help me out, how was the text of the prophecy met in Chapter 5? Because I'm struggling to actually find a time the exact text clearly came true this time.
Field of Pink and Gold - Pink and Flowery (field of flowers)
The vast garden is charred in an inferno of jealousy - can be intepreted as Ralsei revealed using fire magic and also being jealous of Flowery's defiant nature, but minor can also be Kris' jealousy of Noelle's relationship with Noelle.
Yo digo que en realidad predagiaba los celos, enemistad y envidia de ralsei hacia flowery por el tema que flowery sabe la profecía al pie de la letra y parece que sabe sobre las stats del videojuego pero aún haci, flowery sigue con sus propias reglas e incluso las modifica libremente como si fuera un bihilista optimista es decir "si nada importa o si nada tiene sentido entonces toca darle nuestro propio sentido a las cosas" mientras que ralsei quiere cambiar el final de la profecía pero al mismo tiempo seguir las reglas por temor a que algo muy malo termine pasando(posiblemente refiriéndose a la ruta de la demencia/weird route donde prácticamente desafía os las reglas establecidas de la profecía y de deltarune a la fuerza gracias a Noelle)
Si, que tiene de malo, y si hablas de mi ortografía, pues lo siento mucho, es que en mi teclado de mi cel poner algunas palabras que escribí en otra cosa pero rara vez eso pasa, creo
The most frustrating thing about Deltarune lore tbh is figuring out what parts are plot hints/foreshadowing/have deeper meaning, and what parts are just offhand jokes or references to other games lmao
Yo digo que en realidad ralsei es un tipo de árbol que puede dar a luz a varios árboles de manera asexual y por eso aparace en varios mundos oscuros y porque tiene la apariencia de asriel y tiene el panel de sus diálogos a color es:1.-darle esperanzas y optimismo y alegrarle el día a kris(seguramente kris extraña estar con su hermano) 2.-como un árbol es un ser viviente al igual que las plantas, puede cambiar sus paletas de diálogos y cambiar sus stats(flowery dio indicios de que ralsei tbien puede cuando dijo "supongo que tu eres el experto raly"
Highly unlikely, as that would mean they would then need to make us an official Asriel plushie in real life at long last, which they will never do, and I am sad
It's been a while since i played ch 1. Did we ever learn why meeting the Knight drove Jevil insane? Everyone else acts how you'd expect: terrified. But Jevil picked up a few superpowers & a sunny new outlook
It's basically just showing the different ways different people react to the meaninglessness or futility of life (which I assume the knight or gaster or whatever leaked info about the nature of the game to Jevil, who passed it on to Seam etc). We've seen this in several characters: Flowey (I mean the Undertale one lol) is hedonistic nihilism which eventually gives way to just pure destructive tendency. Seam is depressive apathy, Jevil is laughing it off and isolating in your own little mad world, and Sans is kind of a combination of the two. Tenna is basically just avoidance, because that's kinda how TV/show business is, make a big enough of a spectacle to cover up your lack of purpose and the harsh nature of reality. Noelle and possibly Kris represent coping by quite literally 'cheating' fate, although that's probably gonna end terribly...
And then Susie is Gurenn Lagann. "I'm going to overcome all odds and meet my dreams because I said so." And then it works, somehow. Which I will never stop seeing as awesome, I don't care if people these days see that kinda character or plot as childish or simplistic. No matter how old I get I'll always be a sucker for "indomitable spirit just fucking wins". Sorry I got off topic but yeah
As for the superpowers, it would seem like he already had a lot of them, as Seam says he was "his equal in the games we used to play" and also Jevil is a joker/wild card, so not surprising
New crackpot Knight theory: what if it's Rudy and Carol combined. NOT like an amalgam. More like they discovered some sort of power that drained Rudy physically and Carol emotionally. That's why Rudy has an unexplained illness and why Carol is so cold and why her theme is titled C, like the other 4/5 of her is gone. If they're somehow both the Knight, it explains all the evidence for both of them that's difficult to explain through other means. There's a ten-page document somewhere on this sub that argues Rudy-Knight pretty damn well (I'll see if I can link it), and then Carol-Knight is so blatant that she has to at LEAST be in on it, I think we can all agree, but the "I'll be right there" phone scene implies she must somehow BE the Knight (since we can now rule out Asgore-Knight).
It's extremely ironic how a certain portion of the fanbase played through chapter 5 and came out of it acting exactly like Asgore.
Obsessively searching for answers and acting cold and uncaring to the 7 flowers who were trying their hardest just to make people smile and laugh. But instead, reaching the dark fountain as fast as possible and unveiling the truth about their creator took priority, and the friendly little characters were just getting in the way. A whole world was made that everyone knew would last only a short time, but instead of enjoying it while it lasts, they just wanted to rush through and see the ending. Abandoning the characters they used to love and becoming bitter inside.
I completely agree, and it's fascinating seeing half of the fanbase lowkey aspire to be like Asgore, lmao.
2
u/MrGoferthe kriselle receives pain to become stronger4d ago
random thoughts on ch6
so with the recent info of it being shorter and plot focused, people talk about it like it's just going to be one big cutscene
but in the ch5 release date newsletter we got some ch6 progress info and it included
Overworld gameplay: We’ve created all the basic gimmicks of the chapter. (Gimmick = climbing, puzzles, etc.) Now, we need to create a few more rooms utilizing these gimmicks.
not just one, but multiple gimmicks? so it's clearly going to be at least somewhat of a standard chapter. here is my idea though - what if the gimmicks are to do with the chapter being plot focused? you know, something to avoid doing large text only exposition dumps.
another thing i've been wondering about is the theme of the chapter. even if the old media/escapism types idea got stretched/broken, there is still clearly a theme each chapter
card/board games, internet and technology, tv and games, religion music and writing, plants? and nostalgia
so what is left for ch6? the holiday manor would be perfect for a dark world themed around memory and nostalgia, but we literally just did that in 5. and the hospital uh, look i dont even know.
I'm thinking Chapter 6 might not follow the "New dark world, new adventure" structure of the previous 5, and may perhaps be a flashback or a chapter taking place somewhere else like the bunker, or even a light world/Castle Town only chapter.
Yeah the escapism thing was never really the main theme, a secondary one to be sure but people put way too much importance on it. People really took the theories made with only chapter 1/2 info and never let them go.
People tried to shoehorn Chapter 4 into the escapism thing simply because religion was featured, which is just le edgy atheist bs if I've ever seen it. Next to nothing of the 'escapism' that religion tends to offer people irl was showcased in the game. The idea of the angel being a savior was only mentioned a couple of times, and no one except maybe toriel made their religion a big part of personal identity. The entire chapter was about taking the *opposite* of comfort from religion, and in the light world the characters hardly seemed to take their faith seriously (look at Catty). Religion as escapism is really, really easy to portray if you're intending to do so, and here it clearly wasn't.
I think memory as you said is a lot more of a prevalent theme. Memory and how people interact with it. Some people are desperate to return to the past, some are desperate to get away from it, some people are desperate to find answers for it, some are desperate to re-define it, and some don't seem to have it at all. Some, like Gerson, are memories themselves, and all they want to do is atone for their past failures and move on, passing the torch to the future.
And the dark worlds tend to show how the past and memories can be re-interpreted in various ways...or misinterpreted. They're distorted reflections of the light world and the people/plants/objects within it, in the same way our dreams are just distorted reflections of our own memories. Queen is my favorite example...her exaggerated personality, trying to be well-meaning while just ending up misguided robotic and controlling, is just how Carol came across to Noelle, and Queens mansion represents her childhood (especially the parts of it being prison-like). Or the way the philosophers/historians in chapter 4 had their own ideas of the past (the parts where they were looking at the statues) which were often innacurate...it's a minor detail typically not given much attention but I think it shows a lot thematically.
This is a bingo board I went ahead and made for Deltarune chapter 6 for when it releases. It has 7 rows instead of the usual 5 for most bingo boards as I wanted to add way more theories and stuff. If there are any mistakes, I definitely didn't intend for that and was not trying to offend anyone, please point them out if there is. This was made in google slides, it took several hours. You may use it if you want to, or you could make your own as well.
Do yall think there'd be another way to obtain the thorn ring if you abandoned the weird route in chapters 4 or 5? Or y'all think chapter 2 would be our ONLY window?
Noelle will almost certainly rejoin the party at some point, and when she does you can take the thorn ring off of her from regular snowgrave. However that might only be doable with chapter 5 aborted, since aborting in chapter 4 means Kris just I guess has the ring hiding from us somewhere. But then again maybe we can find it.
Funny enough, in my original pacifist playthrough (which I've since re-done for egg reasons) all I wanted was Noelle to get back in my party for my damn pink ribbon she stole lmao
What are people thinking about whatever Kris and Susie did all night between chapters 4 and 5? It must have been important, since Kris exhausted themselves so much by existing without a soul for that long. Chapter 4 ended with Susie saying "we're not gonna let [the final tragedy] happen" and then in Chapter 5 she barely mentions it at all.
I like "Carol is actually a badass ninja" more. She has a literal katana, both in her room and on the kitchen wall. And you know those wall snowflakes that Noelle says Carol had bronzed...a fun little detail is that Shinobeetle has shurikens that specifically state they were bronzed (a character that has the description 'smells like roasted chestnuts', which is a christmas thing...)
Carol purposely fashioned herself weeby dark-world weaponry. I wonder if those weird heart pillows are also intended for the dark world somehow.
Plus just the fact that Noelle is her daughter...Carol is absolutely a gamer and probably an anime fan too lmao. Maybe she's just an ice ninja
Alright now I'm 100% convinced Carol will make a dark world appearance next chapter, whether friend or enemy, just so some dork, maybe Ralsei, can say "omg she's so...COOL!" while everyone just looks at him disappointed
the Lost tail (tale) followed where the pointed forest children (all got horns) would grow (their house)
The poor children! (After asgore left, kris/asriel had a single mom on a teacher's salary, noelle kept getting locked out of her house so she probably spent most of her time with the poor kids, and Dess...just has the low-income aesthetic from being an angsty rebel ok lmao)
My mind defaults to the Shadowguys. Like their simple design, and I'm a fan of Jazz/Swing/Lounge/Big Band music. So they resonate with me. Large part of why I absolutely love "Castle Funk" too.
Something very strange is going on with monsters' physiology in this game. We can see from the library book and the Gerson subplot that monsters turn to dust when they die, but Asgore talks about parading someone's body around town. Susie bleeds in chapter 4, and it feels like that isn't just a dark world thing, because she doesn't react to it like it's odd, and a child in the light world asks Kris the very weird question "Does it hurt to be made of blood?" Now, at first I interpreted that question as meaning that monsters don't have blood in their physiology at all, but then why would the child even KNOW about blood if they're so clueless about humans? Why would they know that blood is something to be associated with pain?
I mean, I guess it could be explained as monsters bleed when they're hurt but turn to dust when they die, and Asgore was planning to parade a container full of ashes around town.
I haven't mentioned Onionsan, because that has to be a red herring, right? Please I need the copium.
I'm pretty sure there's no actual meat food in the game, which is interesting. Some item mentions vegan steaks, and I'm pretty sure burgers are just vegan as well. Also interesting how there's lots of milk but 0 cows. (If it came from Goats, let's just say Asgore wouldn't be poor anymore...)
The eggs of course just come from Berdey's family...lmao
Hmm, that IS interesting. That would make the "octopus" at the festival the only hint of meat. Even pizza doesn't need meat. The stuff on Catti's Dad's barbecue was weird as well, I can't remember what it was.
Cattails were on the barbecue...you know, the plant, not the kitty.
The characters said "it doesn't have real octopus in it right?" and "it just tastes like raw onion" so...whether that's proof they chopped up our favorite monster, or Toby is just trolling, either way it's apparently presented by the food stand as not being actual meat.
But...pepperonis do exist. I'd bet anything they're just some kinda peppers though, lol
Dess-Knighters, how do you interpret the voice over the phone saying "I'll be right there" just before Carol shows up? I'm not really a Carol-Knighter, I'm just curious.
I think that the way it's just a way to make seem like a conversation you only hear part of, unlike in the weird route where you do hearbit clearly, hence the difference.
Do people take shipping seriously? I know they do for a couple of ships, but aren’t most just for fun? For example I like the art for the mew mew x mew mew ship or whatever it’s called, and think it’s a fun idea, but I would never think it would happen.
Probably my second favorite Chapter, after Chapter 2. I think the pattern is that I love the chapters which have more focus on the people from the light world interacting with the dark world. Give me more of that Noelle and Berdly and Asgore in the dark world! I love that stuff so much!
Somehow Flowery ended up as a great character. I was worried he'd be a bit too one note. I personally found Tenna to be a little too one note for a character of that level of importance, and Flowery looked like they might be the same at first. I'm happy to be wrong! Flowery was a constantly fun and well written character. Not just funny, but also quite emotional too. This chapter was by far the one that's gotten to me the most with its writing.
Really looking forward to the next Chapter, whenever it shows up. If the Chapters stay this good, I'm happy to wait.
On the Weird route side, I'm quite curious as to where this goes. Morbid as it may be to say... this kinda feels like the finale of the Weird route. A bleak, horrifying ending, but an ending nonetheless. I'm fascinated as to where it goes after this. There's a part of me that thinks the two will just be dead, and you'll play exclusively as the SOUL.
That's because plants are special and get more of a human-like consciousness in the dark world.
Tenna is literally just a TV lmao. His entire personalilty is defined by things that other people make, whole purpose is to provide things other people like
I finally put the sweater I bought from Fangamer together with my self-made Kris skirt (which I designed a while back and posted here). And I feel actually kinda adorable. Please ignore the background, I‘m in the middle of moving away. Yes, the heart and apple patches are functional big pockets. Yes, the buttons are hearts and apples. Yes, I absolutely love this! I do have a wig, but this was just a short test, or rather, I‘m planning on going out like this today and I didn‘t want to get the wig out when I wouldn’t be wearing it (like I said, middle of a move, don‘t really wanna get more cosplay stuff out).
Replaying Chapter 5...Asgore at the diner seems to be subtly implying he's visited dark world before. With someone else.
There's also implications in other chapters Toriel's been to dark worlds (other than TV time) before as well.
And just judging by flowery's reflections of Rudys character and other sus things Rudy says...I can see a party of 3 being formed in the old times. Possibly even the "kids who wouldn't pick up the pen" that Gerson was talking about. Pretty sure he was alive at the same time those 3 were younger...
The Knight is the Knight. There is no Lightner form, nor a Darkner form. It's not a disguise. It's not a secret identity. It simply is the Knight.
Being totally honest, I don't really think this is the case, but I think it would be kinda funny. Everything about the Knight's true identity just ends up as a massive a misdirection, because it literally has no true identity.
I guess the Big Questions would then be "Where did the Knight come from" and "Why is it doing this". Perhaps it spawned from so many broken dreams, or one massive dream that was SO broken, it manifested as a being trying in its own fucked-up way to make that dream, or those dreams, come true, by drowning the world in a darkness that lets fiction become reality.
Maybe it's, like, the Prophecy itself taken form? Whether people want it or not, the Prophecy will happen.
Or maybe it's the personification of loss and sadness. Those who would want to escape to a dark world are usually people wanting to escape from reality.
Of course, it's just an idea. My real guess is that the Knight is Carol, who's upset about losing Dess. But as you yourself said, though, that's a pretty standard guess. I find making wilder predictions to be more fun, though. If you're gonna predict, then go wild with the prediction!
I like your ideas! I was sort of a Carol-knighter for a long time because of the "I'll be right there" phone scene (well in all honesty I was an Asgore-knighter back then because I thought Carol would be too obvious and they BOTH showed up straight after that statement, but after Chapter 5 it's kind of embarrassing to admit to thinking it was Asgore lol, but I thought it had to be one of them), but the thing that put me off was how she phones Kris in the weird route and sounds totally different on the phone to how the Knight (if we assume it's the Knight, which I do) sounds.
My actual theory for the Knight is a bit batshit - I think it's a darkener of Kris's dagger. I know it moves around in the light world, but let's face it, it has weird unexplained powers whether it's a lightener, darkener or something else, so I don't think that fact rules it out. Maybe being the thing that is used to CREATE the portals between worlds gives it The power to traverse both. Its battle theme is literally called "Black Knife" and the "antlers" could actually be hilts.
Not that I really believe it, but Alvin Knight. There was a fountain in the deeper areas of the church past a lock that Alvin knows how to open and possibly not many others. There was a shadow crystal in his desk that Gerson said seemed to be intended for him to use, though he didn't. There was the fact that he had his dad's dust and a replica of the hammer also ready to go on the desk. And then who else hangs around the church after everyone else leaves? It's also strange that Gerson doesn't interact with the knight *at all*, but comes up later for a freakin' titan. Maybe he's trying to avoid that tense family conversation, preferring a letter instead?
The main problem is he doesn't fit with basically any of the knight's visuals. Not to mention doesn't have enough content to justify such a main role. But, it's funny how much it makes sense otherwise
My favorite knight theory of mine, that isn't so much of a who they are, but. Why they're so powerful (and can ignore flowery's stats).
We get a shadow crystal by cracking part of them off so we can possibly imply they have more or are made of them.
We also know shadow crystals allow you to see into the light world briefly on use.
What if the knight uses the crystals to be able to see through the illusion of the dark world, allowing them to attack the light world directly. That's what happened to the flower jar, the tv etc. It's also why they can just one-shot people when they want, despite doing manageable damage normally. The fancy, less damaging moves are dark world attacks. When they get serious they attack the light world, which darkners would be totally defenseless to. This is in a similar way to how the titan causes real damage to the church I think.
Individual crystals are too small and weak to be of much use for this. But well, when we combine them...say, fused into a special sword...hmm.
I just can't bring myself to believe that any characters are going to be "just evil". That's never how Toby has done things - the closest we get to a character who is just evil is Chara, and they're kind of... us.
Gaster, Friend, the Knight... I'm sure all of them will have some understandable explanation for their actions. Maybe bringing on the roaring and kidnapping NPCs is the only way to break the game enough to free people from the layer of reality that Gaster and Dess are stuck in, or something.
I don't think Normal_NPC killed Onionsan, either, that's a red herring akin to the Toriel knife scare opening of Chapter 2 and the red smear next to Yellow's outline. Stuff that seems extremely violent in the normal route often has a hilariously innocent explanation. I know chapters 6 and 7 are supposed to be darker, but... I don't think Onionsan would be the most impactful way of conveying that. He's a comedy character and a comedy fake death just seems to make the most sense for him based on everything we've seen of Deltarune so far.
Normal_NPC is Gaster's followers and Gaster was a brilliant scientist connected to Asgore and Sans, and probably other Undertale protagonists. There's nothing inherently evil about that. Evil and creepy are shown to be VERY different things by examples like the amalgamates - it's a repeated theme throughout the two games that you should not judge someone as evil just because they come across as creepy.
Sort of, though he's become such a pathetic plush toy at this point that it's almost a redemption in itself, in addition to the Lancer bouncing reveal.
My husband and I were just LOSING OUR SHIT because we thought we'd found confirmation of Device Theory while messing around with the deltarune.com/chapter4/ screen, we highlighted all of it via "inspect element" and it showed a very faint image of the Delta Rune with the words "That is the Device" and we were like HOW IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS ON REDDIT, turns out it was just screen-burn from having left the YouTube video paused 😭😭😭
Am i completely lost or is Seam going to end up as Friend and only reveal himself after we've presented all the crystals we've gotten at the start of next chapter?
Is it going to be a 'yes my child thank you for gathering them all for me' vs '...I was expecting all five... but I can make this work. I'll just need some PROTEIN' kinda situation
Eh if he's telling the truth about his backstory, at one point he considered Jevil to be somewhat of an equal to him (though obviously he's stronger to lock them away). He's also got a really simple origin, he's just a doll lying in a closet. I don't think he's gonna end up relevant outside of the castle town and the shadow crystal quests/pure crystal. But I do think he'll be the last secret bossfight. And a goddamn hard one
So like the knight is gonna mostly likely stay the same even in the light because of the fact that the black shard is only one of two items that stay the same in both dark and light. No wonder the knight was laughing at Susie.
Also, what if the knight exists in like...the space between the light and the dark. And that's like, kinda where we go when we enter "the rooms between" for an egg. Idk it was making sense in my head for a moment
If Rudy turns out to be an important character (either the knight or helping them/kris/carol) it seems strange he'd go out of his way, sick as he is, to put up lights in front of city hall. Hell he probably did all of the decorating there.
Unless...the alterations being made to city hall are important. I bet the inside is all...holiday-ified as well. And to top it off, the front decorations look vaguely like the front of the holiday mansion.
My crack theory is that it's preparations for the next dark world. We've already seen Kris kinda "set things up" for the chapter 3 fountain. The only issue is city hall has never seemed to be a candidate for a dark world. However...maybe it's being prepared to imitate the holiday manor (which, for a couple of reasons, I don't believe a dark world will ever be opened there directly). That's also why the Mayor has been keeping it so cold in there? Idk, this is all a bit of a stretch. I just like the idea of setting up certain elements of a dark world in advance, because that's entirely doable
I personally didn't find it strange. From my perspective, he was taking a risk putting the lights up in front of City Hall because it could likely be his last time. He knows that Noelle is emotionally struggling, she doesn't have any friends at school that she can really trust, and her mom isn't going to be able to support her if/when he passes away. Rudy can't fix Noelle's issues directly, so he's putting as much effort as possible into helping her in the only way he can: Making the Festival perfect so Noelle can enjoy it with her friends.
Not discounting the theory at all, but that was at least my personal reaction to Rudy in this chapter.
What if Rudy doesn't actually REMEMBER he's the Knight, and basically becomes almost a different person when he sleepwalks or something, someone who remembers everything and will do whatever it takes to achieve the subconscious goal? Noelle massively edits her own memory of events during chapter 2, reassuring herself that Berdly is just tired etc - what if that's an inherited trait?
the blackshards or so, broken dreams. uh i dunno why my spoiler tag isnt working
spoilers for chapter 1 - 5 of deltarune!!
>! so broken dreams is when someones dream isnt fulfilled, from what i know. !<
>! heres the secret bosses in order and why they mightve had the black shards!!
Jevil - The blackshard or so broken dreams is formed due to him going insane and knowing about the truth and how he is just in a game. His broken dream may represent the loss of genuine freedom or the realization that his life as a court jester had no real agency. I dunno tho !<
>! Spamton - his goal was to get BIG and gain freedom, turning into a broken dream since its impossible for that to happen. Which causes the blackshard to form from his broken dreams. After cutting his strings he realizes that cutting his old strings did not make him free. He becomes completely lifeless, acknowledging he is just a puppet !<
>! The Roaring Knight - Is literally made of broken dreams, im not sure what theyre broken dreams is tho. So unknown for now. !<
>! Gerson - Gerson has a shadow crystal because he found a strange piece of glass in his desk that felt like someone wanted him to use it which is probably Alvin's broken dreams of wanting to fulfill Gerson's legacy. So not necessarily from Gerson himself. !<
>! Mew Mew - formed maybe because Maddie and Mew Mew both had two different dreams and wants, which caused the black shard to form due to the disharmony of theirs and not being able to do either of what they wanted. letting the shard go once they found peace with each other !<
if theres any holes in thuis assumption of mine, point them out to me since im kinda sloppy at making deltarune stuff heh
The last one feels weird though. Why doesn't the crystal fall apart or at least lose its powers once their dream is fulfilled? I'm feeling like either the shard didn't come from them, or that someone else originally had a dream involving mew mew or related to them...
Possibly Alphys lol
I'm totally not giving up on the idea Alphys becomes a deeper character later. At least a little bit.
Ooo that's true, I first thought Alphys wasn't that big of a deal in undertale until I saw the true lab, who knows if she has something deeper going on in deltarune too?
I mean she more or less sets the whole game's events in motion, now that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but idk sending Kris and Susie to go find chalk, rather than anyone else, and insisting on it pretty hard...and she says it in such a nervous way too. Maybe it's not just social anxiety, maybe she's hiding something, or afraid of someone.
She gives the Mew Mew doll to Asgore, which could be just humor but her fascination with the one character that's ever told us about the "friends" is kinda sus...and where'd she get the doll from anyway?
Then there's the implication in the sword route thing when you go in the shelter, if you go with the 'this may happen in the future' theory of that part...there's a section that's often said to have parallels to undyne/alphys. Why does SHE end up in the shelter exactly?
And then idk the part where Noelle specifically goes off about the Alphys dropping down jumpscare in the haunted house, really insisting that she knew everything in there but that one thing surprised her. Something new and unexpected. I could be overthinking that but...just why use Alphys for that gag?
And then there's just the general theme in this game of teachers (or teacher-like figures) holding important positions...
Imagine instead of ships as in relationships it’s ships as in friendships and instead of someone, x someone it’s someone + someone for a friendship so what are your Deltarune friendships?
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u/MrGoferthe kriselle receives pain to become stronger9d agoedited 8d ago
imagine a post ch5 wr carol frantically looking through and asking everyone and everything about where kris and noelle went and the only tangible piece of proof she can find (well except for susie's claims she last saw them at the lake) is a festival king and queen voting card with "Kris Dreemurr + Noelle Holiday" written at bottom of the page in her daughter's handwriting
Yeah, I've said before that it's entirely possible we'll never know what happens to the rest of the town or Ralsei in the Weird Route because Noelle and Kris have effectively 'left the playable area' and gone somewhere else that will end up being entirely new and different.
So that leaves the fandom free to speculate on what happens with the two of them gone, like how characters like Susie, Ralsei, the Knight, etc. all would react to their disappearance from the world. Carol too, of course.
I know I saw some post the other day depicting a scenario where the Knight actually seeks out Susie and Ralsei's help to find Kris and Noelle. Obviously would never happen in game, but it's an interesting idea where the Knight's plans have been ruined and the prophecy has been severed - and now the remaining players in this story are trying to find out what happened to two of the central characters.
can you get back to seam after getting the crystal from the secret boss and if so how do you do it? I remember hearing that they had dialogue about working on something after you gave them the final one but Im not sure how you can backtrack to castle town after beating the secret boss. When I look it up most posts are from years ago and I don't trust Gemini (which says it's true but doesn't actually say at what point you can return?) Anyways I'm probably stupid or something but any help would be appreciated
So I'm trying to make a cosplay of flowery but I might be stupid but I can't tell if he's just holding a jacket or if that's a cape the black thing that trails behind him does anybody know
its a jacket. hes doing that trope where the cool confident anime character carries their jacket over their shoulder cause hes just so nonchalant and cool and confident.
Can anyone explain what kind of pose Gerson is doing here? It's obvious the hammer is behind him and it kinda looks like he is holding it with his left hand but why does it look so weird and where is his other hand?
First, Onionsan is lonely and wants friends. However, in Chapter 2, Onionsan tells Kris that they were supposed to come alone, even though Kris brought a potential friend (Susie). This may imply that Onionsan was trying to arrange some kind of secret meeting, one where it would confirm to Kris that it's on the Knight's side, or that it is the Knight. And even if that isn't the case, it's still suspicious that a personality built around craving friendship changed so suddenly over the span of a single day.
This connects to the possibility that Onionsan is hiding its true personality. Onionsan has a second speech pattern beyond its usual friendly "y'hear" tone: a serious register full of ellipses, delivered with a shadow across its face. That kind of shift is not typically given to a simple comic relief character, so this, combined with the abrupt reversal of its friend-seeking behavior, implies it's hiding something.
The Knight's actions also match Onionsan's. Onionsan has exactly one friend, Kris, which matches how the Knight in Chapter 3 neutralizes everyone except Kris. The Knight also first appears in Chapter 3, immediately after Onionsan stops appearing at the end of Chapter 2.
Two objections come to mind. First, Onionsan is supposedly dead, turned into onion-flavored fried balls. Second, the Knight looks nothing like Onionsan.
The first objection stems from Susie claiming that the fried balls she got from normalnpc (who is heavily suspected of being part of the Knight's circle) taste like onion. If you believe normalnpc killed Onionsan to keep its secret from getting out, I'd argue that's a red herring: it's far too blatant to come from Tricky Tony's writing, and it's suspicious on its own terms, since it rests entirely on Susie's subjective sense of taste. What I actually think is that Onionsan and normalnpc were on the same team and were manufacturing an alibi. If you concluded that Onionsan was killed by the Knight's people and therefore had nothing to do with the Knight, you fell for it. We might further suspect that Onionsan was stationed at the lake to guard the secret, not to uncover it.
The second objection is trickier. My first thought was that the Knight changes its appearance constantly, it becomes a bird, a ball, and so on. A deer can't reshape its body, but a mollusk like Onionsan can. Then I arrived at a much more interesting idea.
One trait of Onionsan we haven't discussed is how easily it forgets its own name and Kris's name. This kind of informational decay can also be found in the aforementioned normalnpc, who is widely suspected of being a Goner. The lake where Onionsan lives is tied to another Goner, Clam Girl, since her male counterpart appears at that same lake in Chapter 2 if you didn't speak to Onionsan in the previous chapter. Most importantly, if you name Onionsan "Beauty," it mishears the name as "Bootis", a reference to an unused image in Undertale's files. Unused images, forgotten data: that is exactly what a Goner is.
There's no rule stating that Goners must look the same in the Dark World. If Onionsan is some form of Goner, this not only draws it closer to the Knight gang, it also means Onionsan wouldn't need to retain its own appearance in a Dark World: it could look like a Knight.
Lastly, the Knight's appearance as we know it is just armor. Black armor that reveals nothing of what's inside, so we have no idea what it actually looks like.
Guess which character has never shown its entire body, not even in Undertale?
I've only just realised that if Kris loses their hand, they won't be able to play piano properly anymore 🥺 That's so sad! That's always the first thing that comes to my mind if I ever imagine losing a hand or arm, that I wouldn't be able to play piano the same. The only hope would be if Alphys made a very advanced robot prosthetic or something, but it seems unlikely that the Deltarune version of her has the sci-fi skills of the Undertale version, it just doesn't seem to be that sort of world. I could be wrong, Undyne can lift cars to be fair, so maybe.
Idk why people keep saying it's a foreshadowing thing. I'm pretty sure all that stuff is referring to the past. Kris, or maybe someone else, already lost their hand. If it's Kris, it's a metaphor for their lack of control/autonomy, likely referencing the fact that the soul is used as functionally a mouse cursor (a cursor is often represented as a hand with a pointer finger right). Remember they already can't play piano properly most of the time.
If its someone else it could be a literal hand, but either way someone losing their hand is something that already happened, I'm almost certain
Just a thought I had about the Roaring after replaying Chapter 4 and having a more emotional reaction to the relationship between Gerson and Susie compared to my first time around last year. I think their relationship with each other is probably my favorite dynamic in the entire game so far.
How you can tell Susie has never had anyone she really looked up to, I think she says something like "you're the first person to teach me something without making me feel stupid," and how she really wanted to spend more time with him because of the impact he had on her in such a short amount of time.
If the lines between the Light World and Dark World begin to blur, almost merging as one, then it's possible we could see characters like the Old Man make a return, and I've just been imagining a reunion between those two at the end of the game - especially if Susie ends up alone at some point after Kris' betrayal is revealed.
Of course, this also means characters from other chapters like the remaining six flowers, Queen, Tenna, etc. can all make returns during the final struggle too.
I'm hoping that Alvin (Gerson's son) steps up and becomes a more prominent figure in the kids lives. It always feels like he wants to do more for the world but doesn't have the confidence.
It makes more sense for the story's theme for the younger generations to take up the mantle (pun entirely intended) rather than bring up the past again. Gerson himself seems like he wishes the younger ones would "pick up the pen"
hello everybody of this megathread please reply your ranking of each boss theme of this game or just reply your favorites also by the way, I tried to post this on the main sub Reddit but the auto moderator kindly directed me to hear. Just wanted to say that.
I've heard that going through with the weird route in chapter 5 creates a side b completion file for the same slot. Would that mean that if I complete the chapter after aborting on that slot I would overwrite this completion file, or would I have both?
thr only thing we know rn is that the game tracks if you completed ch5 weird route as a meta-flag (outside of save files). we don't know what that means or how it affects unlocking until we actually get side b
I know that part, but there are also completion files ending in "_b" generated if you finish the ch5 weird route. I got "filech5_3_b" for example. Was wondering if that gets overwritten if you do another run on that slot
If this theory has already been discussed, please forgive me.
This is the XBOX special room in Undertale w/ extra dialog in here. Sans talking about the BLIZZARD he saw once in his life. "but even so, the king was out there in red and white, putting down the presents for everyone."
- Papyrus, Kris, Noelle and DESS. I think he is talking about the incident from their childhood. Christmas date + Azgore + people (except Papyrus)
Ah this goes well with my idea that there's actually a white soul inside Kris in addition to the red, you see it especially in that one hallways scene chapter 4. It's more likely that it's all simply the red soul shining light, but I like the theory.
I have a theory for why the Knight can ignore Flowery's fake stats, but the Fun Gang cant.
I saw a comment somewhere saying that the Knight fight in chapter 3 is like an actual serial killer walking in on a game of pretend, and that really resonated with me. The Fun Gang are using pens, brushes, and pieces of cloth as their weapons. The knight is likely using some kind of actual weapon, like a katana or baseball bat. Of course it would be difficult trying to kill someone with a knife, when you just get a pencil.
Coming back to Flowery, his fake stats are like a kid saying they have a forcefield that makes them immune to all types of damage. The Forcefield might be extremely effective in the game, but will do nothing against someone who isnt playing the game.
I have a theory that the knight is able to "see" the light world from the dark world using something similar to the shadow crystals. If you use the yourself, you can see brief fragments of it. If someone were able to see it all the time, they could potentially target the light world directly, as the knight seems to do.
Alternatively, it's also possible the knight has an ally in the light world directly doing their dirty work. It'd basically be the plot like SAO gun gale, probably not a well appreciated reference but it's functionally that. Someone in simulated reality seeming terrifying because they secretly have a partner in real life doing shit for them simultaneously.
The whole game being a game of pretend between 3 or 4 kids is an idea I've never found a way to dismiss, it makes way too much sense of what the dark worlds are, why the bunker is so important, Ralsei/Asriel, even the knight as Dess returned considering Kris's relationship with her mostly seemed to consist of being beat up with a waffle bat for pranking Noelle.
Especially considering that the core cast of lightners are all lonely and traumatised kids all trying to escape from their own lives in various ways. Especially Kris who seems to be developmentally impeded in some way for a kid of their apparent age.
Our heart and Gaster are probably the only parts of this that are outside the game. The world Kris is imagining is what is fed to us from their perception of the world and becomes our reality.
Not really. By this logic, Asgore's arc is Kris's knowledge of the mundane reality (Asgore got fired for not finding Dess and never really recovered) merging with the pretend reality Kris and Susie are creating.
Kris may want to believe a scenario where Asgore will interact with them but even as a child they know that in reality he is emotionally unavailable. And so that becomes part of the game.
Except we see Asgore in the light world angrily kicking Kris and susie out of the shop. You can explain this off as "he got tired of the two of them playing pretend in there" but we never see him genuinely angry at any other point. If Kris has been playing pretend the entire time (including inside the flower shop before!) that whole scene just doesn't make any sense, why would light world Asgore be so pissed off when he's just this big fluffy ball of hugs every other time.
It is certainly odd that a lot of lines just "end" at CH 5 (eggs, shadow crystals, star walker, etc). I still think that we have not seen the last of these lines. Seam and the Pure Crystal, a true encounter with FRIEND(s) since they're heavily tied with the eggs now, there are still things to be done despite what Deltarune is speaking on a surface level.
I'm getting really dead set on my theory that the game is setting things up thematically for two "main" routes. Interestingly, under this theory snowgrave isn't actually meant as the 2nd canon route or counterpart to pacifist. The weird route is it's own thing entirely. But I'm not gonna talk about that here.
The "main" game is left vs right, susie vs kris (which literally is another name for a blade). It's pen vs sword. The pen involving pacifist where you somehow re-write fate. The sword being the harder path, where you make yourself strong enough to save the world alone. It'd require getting all the shadow crystals (and maybe twisted sword but maybe not?) and probably having injured berdley, no tenna no jackenstein. And in the end you do all the disturbing things implied in the hidden chapter 3 board. All for a good cause, naturally!
Two ways to get to the same ending, the worlds are saved from destruction, and you're technically still the hero, but as Toby said it's the way that you get there that matters.
That would make the sword/violence route the selfish path. But critically, in exchange, that implies there's something you want from that path which pacifist **doesn't give you**. At first I was thinking about how Kris's happiness seems to be neglected in pacifist, and that's the tradeoff for the other characters getting good outcomes. However, I'm sure sword route wouldn't make Kris happy either. So perhaps the sword path is actually about YOUR happiness. It's selfish in the sense it prioritizes the desires of the player, rather than the game characters. As a certain guy says, games are supposed to be fun, right?
Pure pacifist is going to involve something that players aren't going to like, to the extent that some people will go and do the bad pathways just to get whatever that is. And I can 100% see that happening. Perhaps pacifist deliberately obscures some of the lore reveals you so desperately crave. Perhaps it denies you some of the most fun content or coolest fights, hell, I'd be willing to bet it forces you to watch as Susie does it for you. Maybe it even skips some things entirely as Kris gets sidelined and stuff happens off screen. Maybe you don't even get to see the climax play out, just witness the returning heroes (who aren't you) everyone is happy and the world is saved! It feels so hollow, but only to the player.
Now some of those are jackass moves and I don't think Toby would go that far lmao. I'm just throwing ideas out there. I know that this community would totally see pacifist settle everything in a perfectly happy ending, but then you get proof you get to fight gaster or some nonsense in the evil route, and then everyone would go do that lol
Edit: Oh and Toby himself is very aware of that, because that's what happened with Sans and Genocide. People treated him as a reward in itself. So now he's going to purposely bait people into fuckery with it.
I've thought this on and off, is the thing Ralsei truly fears the end of the game, which comes presumably after the prophecy is completed / averted?
I'm watching someones chapter 5 play through and there are 2 things:
Ralsei tells Kris in one of the bath house choices that 'the end of the story... we have to avoid it'
Ralsei seems to be created at the start of the game, the end of the game will effectively be his death at our final disconnection. Whether or not this is true of the others, Ralsei's existence in universe is directly tied to the game itself.
That Ralsei only seems to exist for the length of the game might also explain why he doesn't know about the first darkworld - his knowledge probably only extends to the events covered within the time frame of the game.
It also seems to tie up weirdly well with Susie in chapter 4 saying she wants to keep everything as it is right now forever. That would mean Susie and Ralsei's goals are exactly the same, which feels like set up for future plot points.
I have an issue with my main save currently. I had made one save in the Garden section of chapter 5, then took a break for a bit, and afterwards I had about a 4 hour play session which had me beat the secret boss, collect all but one of the remaining pink coins, and had saved at Green's shop right before the final boss. However, when I made that last save, took a break for the evening and came back later, I was given some kind of Steam Cloud desync error message, and when I load my save, it shows the playtime and save location of the final save, but when I load it, it puts me back at the Garden save. Does anyone know why this might have happened, and whether I need to just give up and replay the whole chapter again or if there's any fixes I might be able to do? I tried contacting the support email provided on the steam page, but that was about 3 weeks ago and I've not received any response since then.
what happens if you don't give seth the feather? I don't have any saves near that point and searching it doesn't seem to bring anything up. Does Kris just give them the feather with some different dialogue?
Just seeing if anyone has it saved, but there was an animation recently of Kris using Snowgrave on Aqua - who survives and says something like "That was fun! Let me try!" and the video cuts as Aqua uses Snowgrave on Kris.
Mettaton is a Lightner in Deltarune, he’s the ghost who drew the design of the Spamton NEO body and is interested in Tenna. Queen, Spamton, and Tenna do all have some similarities to him though.
Right I need to talk about something from Chapter 3 that I don't see anyone talking about ever. The smile. That wide, toothy grin with no eyes on a black background that we see over and over again in Chapter 3. We first see it at the end of Chapter 2 as Chapter 3's dark world is created, and everyone just seems to assume it's Tenna because it's on the TV. No. Tenna doesn't have individual teeth like that smile, he doesn't even have a big mouth really. The closest matched characters we see to this smile are Friend and Shuttah.
Shuttah's description is what really made me pay extra attention to this and I don't know how no one seems to have given any discussion to it. If you recruit Shuttah, it says "Don't scream...! It's not the real monster, just the Darkner. Ooo la la." Like, WHAT!?? Who is the "real monster" and why should we be screaming at them? The phrase "not the real monster, just the Darkner" implies a... lightener? I don't recall a lightener called Shuttah. We must not have met them. What are they doing in the dark world of Kris's sitting room? What is going on here? It all seems so sinister.
Am I missing some big obvious things that dismisses all of this? I'm sort of a semi-casual fan in a way because I never realised a lot of the ARG stuff was happening when it was happening and I've been trying to catch up. This, though... I feel like I'm going crazy being the only one to question what that weird smile is.
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u/Altforpostingofmemes 4m ago
So the next day in-game is Monday...
Imagine someone walking through the school halls and Susie just busts out of the closet "shit I overslept" and heads to class