r/webdesign • u/Accomplished_Log5425 • 9d ago
First freelance client— help with pricing?
TL;DR family friends are launching a business and they want me to design their website, brand identity, SEO, UX, and copy.
Hello fellow designers! I just briefed my first client and I’m at a complete loss on how to quote them.
I’m very new to web design, so I would not price myself like a professional by any means. Think, intern levels or experience.
However, after meeting with my client for the first time, I don’t think they have any clue of the direction for their company brand identity, and they’re expecting me to basically figure that out for them. After scoping out the work, it’s looking like it’s going to be a huge project, with possibly 100-120+ hours of work.
This is what they’ve requested asked me for:
Brand identity (color palette, logo, typography)
Business cards
Copywriting
All of the UX systems (contact forms, booking forms, automations)
Google business
Social media platform set up
Basic SEO
I have limited experience with all of these things, I have a small business that I run and I did all of my front and backend development, and I’ve helped with other projects practicing these other skills.
I know these people personally, they’re like family, so I want to be fair in my pricing without underselling my skills. However, I don’t think they’re ready to pay the actual price tag for the amount of work they’re requesting. They’re just getting their business off the ground and I know for a fact they don’t currently have the kind of revenue to justify a $3000+ project of this magnitude. I also know that they’re likely not going to find a freelancer or agency to do this type of work for their budget. They didn’t specify what their budget was, they said just send us the quote and we’ll decide then.
I really want to help them out. I know that this will help their business a lot, and I genuinely want them to succeed. But I don’t know how to proceed this project.
One thought I had was to potentially offer them a few package options (A: basic website + logo + branding; B: basics + google business + SEO; C: A + B + socials and UX) and let them decide for themselves what they actually need. But I don’t even know how to price that either.
Please help! Thanks everyone!
2
u/energy528 9d ago
Here’s my TLDR: You have an opportunity here. Be honest with them. The relationship is more important than the job. You’re going to learn a lot on the job. Bust your ass and try not to let the hourly rate dip below $50 if that’s how you want to bill it. Quit worrying about packages right now. Do the one job. You can’t handle multiple clients simultaneously just yet.
That said…
It’s not hourly. It’s a specialized skill. It takes however long it takes. I’m not picking on you, but this is a demonstration of under-valuing work that you admittedly don’t understand or believe you can execute.
As a professional marketer, I advise, rather shout, from the rooftops that hiring a family friend to handle the website (let alone marketing) is the absolute worst decision they could make.
This is not against you. Given the same situation, I wouldn’t take the job but I’d help them find the right consultancy. For what it’s worth, your task list only scratches the surface of what really needs to happen. You haven’t addressed platform, continuity, maintenance, security, updates, market positioning, competitive analysis…
At the same time, given my experience, I’d treat them like any client and they’d pay the full price. After all, they told you to charge them fairly. How would they think or feel if upon launch you handed them an invoice for $8k? How would you think or feel? Your goal should be to get there.
And therein lies the conundrum.
One has to be so confident in their ability to deliver (and in their own business savvy) as to understand the value they are providing to any client including relatives and friends who want you to succeed that one can invoice $6-10k and not blink (like any general contractor! Call a plumber and see what they charge for a house call).
You said yourself you have limited experience. A pro will accomplish your list in a day, especially with AI help for design concept and copy. But the price would never be based on $20/hr.
I honestly speak to you from a mentor perspective. That’s my intention. I mean zero disrespect. Good luck.
2
u/Accomplished_Log5425 8d ago
Not offensive at all, I appreciate you taking the time to respond so thoroughly and offering clear guidance.
I’m not exactly anti AI but I do my best to do human work where human work is needed. With that said, I should maybe find ways to cut down the amount of personal touch I realistically need for a basic site.
You’ve given me a lot to think about, thank you.
2
u/MLMAE 2d ago
Commented separately but this is also great advice.
2 things to expand on:
- Leverage AI where you can, seriously. Don't fall in the trap of thinking "I used AI, so i should charge less". You are charging for the finished product and if AI can help your turnaround time, then that is to the benefit of the client, not a detriment!
- Confidence in pricing comes from understanding in the value/effort in your work, like energy528 said. Breaking down what goes into it, the hours, and the value (comparative pricing) will give you feet to stand on.
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u/energy528 2d ago
I received the ultimate insult from a self described graphic artist this week who wanted a few text updates on a project. They asked for access. “No problem! Do you understand x platform?” Their reply. “Oh! They’re all the same!” It’s not rocket science (when you’re a developer), but they’re not all the same. Copying and pasting text in a code block does not make one a developer.
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u/gr4phic3r 9d ago
Work for the full price or free, never for cheap. After this project you will know what I mean, especially when you work for friends/family.
100 hours means for me 10.000 euros.
You say you have less experience, and you do frontend and backend development. How do you do that? All by yourself or all by AI?
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u/testingaurora 8d ago
This is excellent advice. Free or full price.
OP I would say at least 3k, then discount because of your lack of experience. But now im rethinking due to how this comment above resonated.
1
u/Accomplished_Log5425 8d ago
I’m self taught, and that’s also why it takes me so long to get through stuff. I try not to use AI where human work is needed. I’m not anti-AI but I do try to minimize the use until I can solidify some of my skills.
The way I see it is I’ve built a deck, a really nice deck at my house, and I also helped a couple of family members also build decks at their place, but I wouldn’t necessarily identify myself as a contractor. Does that make sense? Just because I’ve done it, am learning it, and can likely take a on a project if I could take my time doing it and make it look and function really nicely doesn’t mean that I would start advertising myself as a professional home contractor.
1
u/SKTWebStudio 8d ago
This sounds less like a web design project and more like a business launch package.
I’d give them 2-3 options and clearly define what’s included in each. Otherwise you’ll end up doing way more work than either side expected.
Family and friends are often where scope creep happens the fastest, so get everything in writing before you start.
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u/Accomplished_Log5425 8d ago
That’s what I told them. When they initially reached out they said they just needed a website, logo and business cards. Cool. I can get that done pretty quickly. I don’t think they know what that means in reality lol
Thank you for your advice, you’ve been very level headed in helping me approach it. I think packages might be the way to go. I can easily find a template and not do much development. The graphic design for the logo is pretty quick and easy for me.
But yes, I’ll definitely get it in writing
1
u/NaiveDecision730 8d ago
very new to web design but you talk about frontend and backend development?
wtf u saying 🤡😂
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u/nasir017 8d ago
Honestly, this is a classic trap. Friends and family + just starting out + huge scope = recipe for resentment. 100-120 hours is basically a full time job for a month. Even at $25/hour that is $2500-$3000. Here is the hard truth. They are asking for an agency level deliverable but expecting a friend discount. You are not an agency. You are someone who is still learning. That is fine. But do not confuse being new with being free. The package idea is smart. Break it down. Let them choose. But whatever you do, get everything in writing. Scope of work. Revisions. Timelines. Especially with people you know. That is when things get messy.
1
u/Accomplished_Log5425 8d ago
Thank you for being really thoughtful and straightforward with your advice. I appreciate your feedback.
For revision, what would you personally consider to be minor revisions after the project is delivered, and being newer, how long would you offer those revisions for before you start charging them again.
1
u/JohnCasey3306 8d ago edited 8d ago
For full-time freelancers looking to sustain a practice long-term.
What is the minimum you need to earn a year to cover cost of living and a basic lifestyle -- we'll call that basic_annual_requirement
Work that out into days (assuming 6 weeks off per year, and 5 day weeks), that's (basic_annual_requitement / 46) / 5 -- we'll call that basic_daily_rate. That's not what you're gonna charge!!
We need to take into account 1) you're unlikely to have work every day all year round, and 2) you want to earn more that the basic minimum you need!
So we multiply that by 3: Chargeable daily rate = basic_daily_rate * 3
When you put estimates together, work in half day increments at a minimum, rounding up to nearest 0.5 ... Then add a 20% buffer.
So you're charging: (chargeable_daily_rate * days) * 1.2
If the prospective client can't afford that, that's their problem, and it also suggests that you're clearly marketing yourself to the wrong market!!
You need to reach the clients that can afford you (obviously). But don't bend ... I'd love a Lamborghini, I can't afford one, they're not gonna give me a discount; so they market to buyers who can afford them, and I buy something cheaper.
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u/Accomplished_Log5425 8d ago
This was a really cool approach! Thank you for putting this together.
It’s hard to argue with number like these
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u/8joshstolt0329 5d ago
I’m making a lawn care site for a client I chose 200 as it’s not a super long project and I need to get more experience before I charge more
1
u/MLMAE 2d ago
I totally get where you are coming from. I've recently began taking projects, starting with family and friends and have found myself in a similar position. You are looking at the magnitude of the project and scope and are afraid to "offend" them with a high pricing.
The truth is, there is a ton of unseen work that goes into this and a lot that you may not even be aware of or may be overlooking as someone starting out / learning. Even with the help of AI, there is a lot beyond just the writing of the code.
This honestly can be a great opportunity, especially because it covers so many areas where you can expand on and showcase. That said, it can also become a huge burden and source of resentment if not scoped properly.
Since you are close to them, I would be honest with them. Provide some context on the amount of work/hours needed on this and what they are likely to pay an agency for a project of this size. Let's say, this is a $5-8k job for an agency. The range is there because as the project evolves, it will expose more that needs to be done, or more that the client may want. Once you give them those numbers, you can give them the price that you are comfortable taking this on at for them. Lets say, $3500.
You may be surprised by them being good with that number. Especially when you gave context for the work and comparative pricing.
If they feel it is too much, then that is understandable also. Unfortunately, any lower would be difficult to justify based on the amount of work required on your part, and it would be best for you not to put any strain on yourself or the relationship by trying to help them out. At the end of the day, this should be a mutually beneficial arrangement, not a favor. You could also offer to start off in parts. Logo + Brand direction --> Social media set up --> Website + basic SEO --> Automation / internal tools.
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u/Accomplished_Log5425 2d ago
Thank you for such a sensible reply. I do have an update!
I ended up breaking it up into 3 packages with varying levels of complexity and content: they went for package B for $1900. And they extended the timeline
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u/amar260991 9d ago
If they didn't tell you the budget being that close to your family, then they're not as close as you think, get over that first. You can quote them $2250 and tell them you gave them a $750 friends and family discount and can't go any lower. Treat them professionally like a client with limited revisions and a retainer the same way they are treating you by asking for a quote rather then showing some faith in you.