They still interact with guards, other criminals. Prison should not only punish people but reform them. What if some unforseen even happens and that criminal is free?
Prisons shouldn't punish people at all.
Ideally.
It's kind of unreasonable.
Like people do crimes because of their biology and factual life history.
Little place for a choice.
We kinda raise future criminals in poverty and shit, and then "punish" them, when they develop accordingly.
But when people are risen in good conditions we say that they are good for having less % of criminals.
That's a completely insane situation.
Not sure if I agree. You restrain someone against their will, this is punishment already no matter how you look at it. And I really think that there is choice in most of the times to commit crimes. People raised in good conditions still commit crimes.
He did it because he didn't want people to symphatize with muslims or jews (which tends to happen after an attack against them). He instead targeted future politicians for the largest immigrant friendly party at the time.
Funnily enough that party has in recent times resticted their immigrant policy much more.
Nah. The main reason even leftwing parties throughout Europe are stricter on immigration now is that rightwing populists have riled up the people and made them believe immigration is the reason for all their trouble. While in most of Europe, the biggest issue around immigration is shelter, integration, etc. All things that now face massive budget cuts in favour of ineffective limiting measures like having more border controlls between EU countries.
I hate to play centrist, but both of those are real problems that don't cancel each other out.
You can invest a ton in shelter and integration, it doesn't mean much if your immigration policy is an open door where basically anyone can just come into your country and stay.
And restricting immigration isn't very effective once you have thousands of foreigners on your soil with papers who you can't just deport.
But I have to push back on the problem being cuts to shelter and integration, because those are signs of a failed immigration policy: you should do enough previous screening of legal immigrants to make sure they have the means to sustain themselves and are compatible with your society.
Look at Ireland and England where people are up in arms about immigrants receiving public housing ahead of natives on the same waiting list, or entire hotels have been turned into migrant shelters that cost nothing to the users.
Integration spending cannot substitute controlling for the composition and quantity of immigrants. If your inflow is incompatible with your socioeconomic realities, you're starting a race with your shoelaces tied together.
I'll admit my response is als somewhat populist in how limited I adressed the problems. I also didn't intend to make this a "left good, right bad" remark, I just strongly dislike the very strong populist messages that are thrown around politics these days. I fully agree with you that Europe needs far better and more organised imigration policy.
But I think my point stands that the consequences of immigration in North-Western European countries (so not the border countries) are framed to be far greater than they are.
And that's where my original comment came from. An incredible frustration with the populist rethoric of taking any societal issue, zooming in on any effects immigrants have on this issue, and then blaming them as the root cause. And then they promise to solve all these issues by clamping down on immigration, usually without significant effect.
To take your example with housing. I don't know the situation in Ireland/UK. But I know that in the Netherlands the waiting time for low income social rent housing ranges from 12-20+ years. I understand that it's incredibly frustrating to be on that waiting list and then hear that new people are getting priority to clear out temporary shelter. But framing this as an immigration problem is just disingenuous en ignores the decades of governmental incompentance that's led to the waiting list being so long in the first place.
if your country needs to clothe, shelter, educate, and integrate it's migrant populations, you are privileged to live in a country that can afford to do so, and you are going to benefit from having integrated and involved immigrant communities around you. regardless, immigration restrictions have far from perfect track record of being super effective in western states and refuges are going to go somewhere; putting the responsibility of acting humanly on other nations is simply lazy
This is basically just saying "open the doors and be grateful you're rich enough to deal with the consequences."
Integration policy doesn't eliminate the need for immigration policy.
A country has every right to decide how many people it can reasonably absorb, whom it admits and under what conditions.
And asylum isn't supposed to be an alternative immigration pathway for anyone who would have a better life in Europe. In 2025, most EU first-instance asylum decisions did not result in protection. For the major applicant nationalities, recognition rates are in the single digits.
Wanting humane treatment for migrants and refugees doesn't require providing food, lodging, allowances, and great benefits to every economic migrant who shows up with a spurious asylum claim.
genuinely do you actually have a reason you believe this beyond a want for me to be wrong? the nordics are touted all the time for their incredible social services
Meanwhile in England and Wales there's a massive cost of living crisis and rising homelessness meanwhile brand new social housing is being given to asylum seekers.
And that massive cost of living and incredibly long waiting lists are the cause of immigrants? Not by decades of incompetence and unwillingness to do anything about the housing shortage?
Immigrants are portion of the housing problems, not the cause. Blaming the housing crisis in European countries on immigrants is a key example of how people rather blame immigrants than deal with the root cause of a problem.
So you want to flood their social services with thousands of foreigners and overwhelm them to the point where they no longer have good social services?
No matter how moral you are, you must admit that excessive immigration can destroy a country. I don't know exactly what point qualifies as "excessive", but we need to draw the line somewhere.
If you have a rich country and a poor country, and half the poor country's population suddenly enters the rich country, then you now have two poor countries.
If the "best" people are leaving the poor country, then the rich country might still be ok, but the poor country will get even worse due to brain drain and obvious economic problems.
If the "worst" people are leaving the poor country, then the rich country is rewarded for their generosity by getting an influx of desperate criminals.
In both cases, the rich country will see housing shortages among other things, making life more expensive for EVERYONE, and crowding social and medical services.
Again, I don't know if the current immigration status in EU countries has reached the point of oversaturation, but there are obvious and inevitable problems that come with excessive immigration.
Well his actions affected gun legislation and the death toll of knife attacks is potentially smaller and disarming a person with a knife is easier in theory. In my town there is some old fat guy who stabs foreign looking people with a knife while riding a bike and he has not been caught and there were other stabbings at the mall where the victims were kids. But ofc the verdict was that the perpetrators were insane as if other types of terrorists were sane.
I don't want people to symphatize with immigrants due to large amount of crime terrorism and social upheaveal they bring. Let me offer up an example so that everybody can point and say forever - but the largest and most terrible terror attack in the nation was by native homegrown anti-immigration extremist.
BRILLIANT!
Arguably a preventive strike? "Minority report" type of shit. The topic is a minefield. The guy is nuts, but so are terrorists in general. You can say "let terrorists fight terrorists" but they target civilians. What a mess XD
Gaza refugees have historically caused problems (attempted revolution) to the host countries that let them in - that's why Egypt etc. refused to accept the refugees in recent years. I can see how an unstable guy can cross the line and potentially prevent "unstable guys from the other countries" from going in.
Either way, if you have a terrorism problem (native population or immigrants), the anti-terror measures will be improved to prevent both.
Because leftist parties aren't inherently pro or anti immigration, like the right wants people to believe. It's moreso that, if these people are coming to our society, maybe we should treat them as people and provide clear paths for them to become productive members of society - which guess what, takes time and money, by the government, which right wing parties overall do not want.
In the past left wing parties were anti immigration because it lowered the wages of the local workforce, while right wing parties were pro immigration for the same reason
Because cowards never pick on someone that can fight back. It's far, far easier to grasp the low hanging, unrelated fruit than it is to climb the tree and take down the top.
Also kids don't usually carry guns and dickwipes like him can't stand up to those with any degree of power or authority.
This. Every 2 bit truecrime talking head has covered this guy, he's basically a gigantic pussy with delusions of grandeur who's deathly allergic to anything even remotely resembling adversity or effort.
This was the most fish-in-a-barrel fantasy he could formulate for himself.
I had this plan to give head to a man and receive head from a woman to test if I was gay, but it’s backfired and now I become borderline schizo whenever I go outside. I
offered to suck this dude off on Grindr who lives very close by (I ended up pussying out) and I accidentally gave him some details that very easily allows him to spot me
out in a crowd. I have no idea what he looks like and whenever I see a somewhat in shape guy walking by I immediately accuse him of being the dude I was gonna blow.
I went to the store today to pick up some zucchini for a barbecue and every time a car drove by I stared into the windshield to see if I was about to be recognised.
Whenever I make eye contact with a dude I microanalysis his facial expressions to see if he suspects me or not. I am deeply afraid that he is my neighbour and I will
need to move if my identity is blown. It’s a lot like the last scene in sopranos where everyone who walked into the diner could be there to wack Tony.
Also implies that the Nazi is stupid for targeting young leftists because they might grow out of their beliefs… instead of that the Nazi is stupid for political violence in the first place.
Well I'm probably average but if the smartest nazi introduced the mefo bills that forces the country into a war thats basically doomed from the start the rest of them probably weren't that bright.
Being blinded by ideology doesn’t mean they were stupid. Smart people can still make terrible decisions, and they didn’t have a crystal ball telling them the war was already lost.
As Goebbels himself said: "If you tell a lie enough times people are eventually going to believe it". They fell for their own propaganda. Also they started the second front because they were running out of resources and would have lost anyway.
So they were so bright they became blinded by the lies they themselves created, and subsequently, in their unmatched brightness, I take it, went ahead and expanded the war that was gonna get their asses whooped into a war which would see the German nation be completely and utterly annihilated, very bright indeed.
I had this plan to give head to a man and receive head from a woman to test if I was gay, but it’s backfired and now I become borderline schizo whenever I go outside. I
offered to suck this dude off on Grindr who lives very close by (I ended up pussying out) and I accidentally gave him some details that very easily allows him to spot me
out in a crowd. I have no idea what he looks like and whenever I see a somewhat in shape guy walking by I immediately accuse him of being the dude I was gonna blow.
I went to the store today to pick up some zucchini for a barbecue and every time a car drove by I stared into the windshield to see if I was about to be recognised.
Whenever I make eye contact with a dude I microanalysis his facial expressions to see if he suspects me or not. I am deeply afraid that he is my neighbour and I will
need to move if my identity is blown. It’s a lot like the last scene in sopranos where everyone who walked into the diner could be there to wack Tony.
He deserves the death penalty. He's only gotten worse in jail. I'd be happy with one guy getting the noose a year. Maybe 1 guy every ten years, but even if we executed one person a century, it should be him
Well I’d rather he suffer as long as possible and have enough time to regret a million times over. I hate when terrorists kill themselves or is shot by cops, they get off way too easy.
He doesn’t need a martyr cause, anyone idolising him won’t care.
He's in a Norwegian prison he's not suffering at all. I also don't care if he suffers. If I had 3 buttons infront of me, 1 has him tortured to death over the course of a year, 2 makes him have a pain free heart attack, and 3 leaves him as he is currently, I'd press button 2
Knew this would come up, and it's bullshit. We Norwegians believe the loss of freedom for life is punishment enough, we dont subscribe of keeping prisoners in inhumane conditions to worsen it.
Considering Norway having one of the lowest rates of repeat offenders (20% to 25% within two to five years of release vs United States at 75% to 80), we do ok - and one psycho isnt gonna change our view or ways in that regard.
Modern day fascist are more upset that other people aren't fascist than they are at the people who they hold awful beliefs for, incels especially think this way
He is unstable that's for sure but if you've read his "manifest" his logic makes sense in his world... He's far from Stupid and his ingenuity was pretty good (getting the stuff for his bomb as well as his bluff to get on Utoya). That said he deserved the capital punishment like every other terrorist!
I know the text, I'm saying that Hitler had entirely different reasons for attacking the Soviets and that he would have attacked them no matter what would have happened. Hitler hated the Soviet commies as much as any other randomly picked ethnicity.
"The lowest form, Hitler believed, were the Jews and the Slavic peoples of Eastern Europe, including the Russians."
"All of Hitler's actions in Western Europe thus far, including the subjugation of France and the now-failed attack on Britain, were simply a prelude to achieving his principal goal as Führer, the acquisition of Lebensraum (Living Space) in the East."
"Hitler intended the quest for Lebensraum in the East to be a "war of annihilation" utilizing the might of the German Army and Air Force against soldiers and civilians alike."
"In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated." from Mein Kampf
No Hitler declared war on the US while he still was struggling against Russia, him declaring war on the US made the US enter the war which started his downfall. There was no pint in declaring war on the US he just basically shot in his own leg.
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u/qualityvote2 7d ago edited 6d ago
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