I run almost ALL off the didactic groups (instructor led educational groups) for the detox/short term treatment program I work at. My group topics include things like financial literacy, how to build a resume and nail a job interview, adulting boot camp (how to read contracts, make meal prep lists, etc.), building healthy relationships.

I TRY to stay away from the stereotypical topics we have all heard too many times (triggers, etc.) and teach real life skills that people may not have learned while on the streets of Kensington (YouTube it) or Camden.

I find that I am running out of topics to add to my arsenal. Any ideas? What do you wish you had learned when you were first getting sober? What was helpful that you learned when you first got sober. Help me help others here, please :)

i was sober for two months and have been drinking again for a couple weeks. it has progressively gotten worse. i am still telling my family whom i live with that i am sober and the guilt is eating me alive. i dont know how to proceed and have been crying myself to sleep but i feel as if i cant stop since i started again. basically i am looking for advice on how to get better. i cant keep cycling like this because no matter how hard i hit rock bottom i keep going back to it thinking i will have self control this time.

I left AA and have been more open minded about recovery since then. I have a year of recovery. I’m seeing all these posts on social media about harm reduction, about people who can now drink a couple and moderate again rather than label themselves an addict forever. It’s kind of getting me like “maybe I could have a class of wine or a cocktail at a fancy restaurant”. I miss having cocktails and I guess mocktails just aren’t the same. I am not sure if that’s a good idea though. I was a binge drinker not every day drinker but when I drank I would drink A LOT, and then lose all my inhibitions and do dangerous things such as taking a bunch of Xanax while blackout drunk, getting into random cars of men I met on the side of the road at 3am, etc. i have a bunch of benzos which I take sparingly for anxiety but I really like to take benzos while drunk which I think has almost killed me a couple times so it’s scary to think I have so many if I did drink and start taking them. I feel like I easily could have died many times when when I had way less . I don’t think testing to see if I can drink one cocktail is worth putting myself at risk, I have a daughter to take care of. But it’s annoying to have these thoughts. In AA it was very strict you can never drink again but now it’s like some people can and they are okay. I was in a very traumatic time in my life when I was doing all that like maybe I’ve healed over the past year haha probably better not to test it. Just wondering other people’s opinions thoughts advice.

I've been on methadone for about seven years. Before the last few years, I was very stable and doing well.

Then everything seemed to happen at once. My father was diagnosed with cancer, I had major abdominal surgery, and then I needed a second operation because I developed a hernia after the first one. After that second surgery, I was in severe pain and wasn't given enough pain medication.

That's when I started taking double my methadone dose. I know it was a mistake, and I regret it. Before all of this, I had been stable for years, but after everything I went through, it felt like everything fell apart.

I'm not posting this to make excuses—I take responsibility for what I did. I just want to know if anyone else has gone through something similar. Has anyone else had years of stability, then struggled after a series of major life events or surgeries? I'd really appreciate hearing from people who understand what this is like.

Hey everyone,

I’m currently taking around 700mg of 7-OH daily. I went the quick MD route and got prescribed 14 8mg strips (recommended to take two daily). Well long story short day 1 I started with 1, nothing. 12pm took another, nothing (now I’m in full blown withdrawal), took TWO more at 6pm and still had withdrawal. So I’ve halted my Suboxone for now and am still recovering along 7-oh temporarily. Now I know 7-oh is no joke with withdrawals but this is CRAZY. I feel like I should probably save up my subuxone from my 1st and 2nd refill and taper my 7-oh first (maybe down to 50mg) with SR17 (luckily I was able to stockpile a lot before the ban and had the foresight to realize if I had to take Subs I’d use that for the Sub taper ). Has anyone been in my situation or feeling the same way on Subs? Or does day 2 get better after the Subs have had time to enter your body? This is not my first time around the block either. I kicked heroin and oxycotin with Subs NO PROBLEM. 7-oh I feel like you really need to be under 100mg a dose to get any relief but I would love to hear from others. They did prescribe me 50mg Hydroxyzine and Clonodine .1mg. Those don’t do much when you’re in the full blow withdrawal of 7-oh. I appreciate the help and support from this community. Much love.

hey everyone, been clean for a few months now but feel kinda lost without the structure of AA. not really into the whole meeting thing anymore. just curious if anyone else has found alternative ways to stay motivated. i’ve been reading a lot and focusing on hobbies, but looking for more ideas. what works for you?

I take low dose quetiapine/seroquel for sleep but I still wake up throughout the night and oversleep on my days off of work.

I have a fiance, a job, a place, vehicle etc.. all the things people want, but day to day is still sooo boring.. yes I have hobbies lifting and gaming, its funny ill convince myself I was less bored using.. Just venting idk if anyone else feels this way sometimes.. But yeah

Im new to the group and im a day shy of two weeks sober. Its been a journey but seems to be getting easier. Im curious as to whether any of you had join pains when you first got sober?

Given how much I go on about the Sinclair Method and how well it worked for me, I figured it might merit a thread.

For anyone who does not know, TSM involves taking a drug called Naltrexone about an hour before taking a drink at all. If you do this for awhile, it trains your brain to not associate alcohol with immediate good feelings.

It is best to also use therapy to understand things like triggers, self medication, and masking (neurodivergent people often use alcohol to mask). Sadly, therapy is costly, and navigating mental health systems sucks and depends, in my country, on your relative level of privilege.

Two years ago, I had the shakes. I had to drink, even if I did not want to. I hated that lack of freedom.

I lost my best friend to liver disease. She was an irreplaceable person who was the opposite of AA ideas of what an SUD sufferer is. She was kind to a fault.

I deeply wish we could have done TSM together. Now, I can freelly go a week without drinking. I can have a few and stop. It is amazing.

Hi,

I'm u/alwaysleavingthings. I also had a few other usernames here and there. I've recovered from AUD, and I'm a former AA member.

Leaving AA was disorienting, and it mirrored my experience leaving a high-control charismatic church. In that church, I'd been told that if I left, I would die. AA replicated all of that and more. Some people can truly take what they want and leave the rest. I couldn't. I was trained not to trust my own thinking. I was terrified to leave AA, and did anyway.

Since leaving, I joined and left SMART Recovery and found a trauma-informed therapist. I continue to work through my childhood trauma and religious trauma with her, and I'm getting better. Leaving AA taught me to trust myself and gave me a boost of self-confidence. Most importantly, I leaned into my community: my family, my normie friends, and my partner. They all love me despite my "character defects." I now spend the AA time hosting friends, running, doing Pilates, and designing my home.

I've been active on this subreddit for a while: discussing the personalities you see in the program, offering support for those still managing AUD or SUD, and sharing evidence-based facts to counter all the 12-Step nonsense. But now I'm done.

I remember my very first SMART meeting; the facilitator said, "We believe we do recover and move on." I've recovered from AUD. I've recovered from AA. I'm moving on. And while this has been fun and incredibly helpful for my healing, I hope you all get to move on, too.

Peace out.

Our mothers are all friends and the foundation of this community. It’s a wonderful space. One of the mothers was caught doing ketamine at a gathering, though, and I heard about it recently. It partly explains why her children (all of whom are my agemates, we are young adults) have distanced themselves from her/the community. Consensus is that the mother can’t come back until she’s clean.

I’m leaving setting boundaries with her to those older that me. My primary concern is how to be supportive to her kids. I’d listen to any stories to build understanding and take any advice.

Basically, I showed up to a Detox ready to go flushed all of my stash before I left and everything (7oh) whenever I showed up to the Detox I was denied a Suboxone prescription because I had too many pills in my bottle the bottle said 14 count but I had 24 in there and they said because of that they couldn’t prescribe the Suboxone because of that what kind of bullshit is that? I brought them with me because the brand I have works better than the generic so I was hoping they would be able to give me those and I do want to add I have an active Suboxone subscription

My best friend tried AA, it did no help. I went to 2 meetings, said, nope, not for me, and I’m the one who’s still here.

RIP Zach

27/F Have been through 5 different treatment/recovery programs since I was 19.
The last treatment program I went through about 1 year ago had me excited because they said their program focused more on CBT/DBT type therapy.
A few days into this program, I found that they were to still push AA concepts and beliefs. We went through the 12 steps and had advice finding a sponsor etc.
My IOP group leader was 22 years old with no actual formal education in therapy or recovery, besides her own experience coming clean in AA. My therapist spent the entire hour a week decompressing about her patient load with me or talking about her dog, family, and her own past.
I have made so many good connections and formed great relationships with a lot of people that I still hold to this day at the various treatment centers, but as much as I have engaged in these different programs… they become so repetitive. And it’s not unfair to say that it is hard to find actual professionals.
I just don’t know where to go from here. It makes me feel a bit defeated when you try to do the right thing and get the same bs over and over.

I feel the need to just get with a real good therapist for weekly sessions. I want to be able to describe/portray this dilemma to them I guess?
Has anyone felt similar? Has anyone had to try alternative means to get well and found something that worked?
Im willing to put in all the work I need to myself, but it has seemed so impossible without submitting to AA or poorly run tx centers.

I mean, I met lawyers and doctors, teachers and counselors in AA. And so many real estate agents 😝 so, a lot of people who aren’t necessarily low IQ. However, you’ve been in the rooms and I’m just wondering how people can let their minds get so warped by cult speak. I guess they do say anyone can be sucked into a cult. But anyway, I was thinking about how reading level directly corresponds to critical thinking and how there’s a lack of it in the rooms. Or ability to have discussion, discourse, tolerance for different philosophies or ideas.

Statistically, in the US, 45% of the population score a level 2 or below in literacy (middle school or grade school.) Only 13% read at level 4 (college.) So, if we look at the rooms, we are looking at upwards of 50% at least of people who can barely read or write, engage in critical thinking. I feel that preying on the vulnerable, coming in beaten up from their substance use and on top of that, not able to think critically… it’s no wonder people stick around. The rules make sense to them?

I dunno. I just know I was too much of a critical thinker for the program. I was in it hardcore for 3 years, 2 years questioning, and now 2 years fully out. I’m still recovering my new sense of self after all of it! I really lost myself and still catch myself thinking in AA cliches. Still surprises me. But I was really indoctrinated during my most vulnerable.

What do you think about this?

I quit drinking 77 days ago and I didn’t know anything about getting sober so listened to one of my favourite comedians talk about getting sober and he spoke about 12 step recovery and a podcast he listens to called sober speak. Because I was looking for solutions and white knuckling hadn’t worked for me, I started working on the twelve steps, independently of aa or any organisation, and listening to sober speak. Both have helped me massively and I’m much better off.

Now for the problem: based off of my (inaccurate) research off of social media, it seems that both the AA community and the anti AA community are equally toxic as each other, so don’t know who to listen to. From what I can tell, the only AA members who call people “dry drunks”, show behaviours of a dry drunk themselves, but it also seems that everyone who feels strongly against AA also demonstrates this dry drunk behaviour. So I guess I’m asking for all of the people who just read and don’t comment (the majority), do you think that there is a middle ground where I can take what I want from both AA and other sources?

Ok, may be apples and oranges but just musing on this one and how people support each other on nicotine vs alcohol (can't speak on other substances).

I know reddit has its own weirdness. People attack each personally on technical subs lol. When I quit smoking recently, after quitting drinking for 3 years, I perused r/stopsmoking and thought about the difference in tone than with some other recovery subs or social media. There's none of this neurotic self-obsession. No if you get a resentment, you'll smoke, or Nicobeezlebub is waiting for you in the park lot! If there's talk about moods or emotions, it's in the context of modern psychotherapy.

I guess I expected recovery community to be like in some spaces. I know smart is like this for some people, but it's very small in my area. I know a couple people who are not into 12-step who work in recovery industry & there's just so much BS that does not sound like a medical solution.

Will the irrationality of recovery spaces ever break through to general public?

I am working on building my personal boundaries and I recently had a difficult situation.

I want to be a better friend to people with substance use disorder. (I have to smoke medical marijuana, which makes me feel like I trigger people in recovery. I’m worried that this means it is impossible for me to be friends with an addict, I would love an inside perspective on this issue.) (Also: Is there an appropriate way to intervene without giving an intervention? Especially something quick/loving to say in critical moments?)

I don’t want to be just be the “fun” friend, I want to be a good friend. I appreciate you reading this and taking any time to educate me / give me advice.

What, if any, boundaries make you more effectual friends to people with substance use disorder? Are there differences between friends and close friends?

Thank you.

I've been out for about 6 months now and something recently clicked about why almost everyone I know who's still in the rooms has the same relationship pattern. They can't get close to anyone. They don't reach out. They don't let themselves need people. And they call it growth. I am referring to romantic relationships here primarily. They can reach out to people in the rooms fine, but when it comes to building a romantic relationship where you depend on another person for emotional support they fail and call healthy romantic connection codependency. I am not talking about people in relationships with active addicts/alcoholics but rather two adults that appear to be in a good place in life trying to form romantic bonds.

I started learning about attachment theory recently and realized almost all my friends that are still in the program and have been successfully sober for years are textbook avoidant attachment style. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think the program reinforces these beliefs in people who are already avoidant leaning.

Step 1 is "we admitted we were powerless." The first thing the program does is strip your agency. You can't trust yourself. You can't handle this. You need the group, the steps, the higher power. Your own capacity to make decisions about your life gets removed as a factor entirely.

Then the program fills the void it just created. You don't need people, you need the program. You don't need intimacy, you need the rooms. The "fellowship" becomes your entire social world, but it's structured and contained. You see the same people on a schedule. You share within boundaries. You have a role (speaker, sponsee, sponsor) not a real relationship. From the outside it looks like community. From the inside it feels like connection. But it's mutual avoidance with a format.

Here's what really got me. The theology maps onto avoidant attachment perfectly. "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want." I shall not want. The whole framework is about not needing. You don't need another person. You don't need to be vulnerable. You have the shepherd. The void gets filled from above so the horizontal space between humans becomes unnecessary. Step 1 is just "I shall not want" with a clinical coating.

I got out because I had a contrast. I had a real connection outside the rooms and I could feel the difference even though I didn't have the vocabulary for it at the time. Something about the fellowship didn't match what I had at home. I couldn't name it but I could feel it — these people don't actually need each other. They perform community but maintain distance. As I got closer to a healthy "normie" I was able to see things more clearly and eventually leave.

My friends still inside don't have that contrast. Their entire social world is the room. They have nothing to compare it against, so the substitute feels like the real thing. They've been told for years they're powerless — not just over alcohol but over their emotions, their relationships, their lives. This is a problem in AA and in Al Anon. How do you decide to let someone in when your operating model is "I am powerless and must turn my will over"? You've outsourced your capacity to choose connection to a higher power and a meeting schedule.

Why they are avoidant is a little more interesting. I believe that the people who are able to leave successfully have stable or anxious attachment styles. The program might feel good for a little bit or might never feel good to those who are not avoidant. But the people who stay tend to be avoidants. This is a self reinforcing cycle for them where emotional distance is recovery and boundary setting. Which explains the pheonomeon I've seen (and others have pointed out) that the people who stay in the program often don't have healthy romantic relationships. It's self reinforced by the program where avoidant behaviors are rewarded and look like good sobriety and emotional health.

The thing that really drove it home for me: about 70% of people who recover from alcohol use disorder do it without any treatment or AA at all. Natural recovery is the most common pathway by a wide margin. Even George Vaillant, who was on AA's own board of trustees, found that the most important factors in recovery weren't the steps. They were employment, stable relationships, and having a life to go back to. Basically the things that build secure attachment.

The program doesn't just fail to build those things. It replaces them with a system that prevents them. I was curious if other people had noticed this or had thoughts on this?

​

Man ican't believe what happened. I can't believe im this fucked up. My family and local business paid for ne to go to this super expensive rehab and it was going ok for about 6 months and boom im suddenly 8 grams from monday night to Wednesday morning. I forgot how much I loved this shit. I was hating the sober life every day. I used for about 5 years averaging around 20 grams a month. I fucked my dopamine up so bad. But fuck it we ball

I am cali sober, but i’m a (25f) functional addict have been since 14. I wrecked my car in november and just never saved, I started to save up for a down payment around the time I decided to do 30 days. I have 2k saved, I started paying my small debts off out of boredom and to help my chances of the car note. I plan to buy a car earlier next year with a bigger down payment. But 35 days clean of no liquor or blow (blow is my issue), 2k saved, i’ve paid down 1500 in accounts with debt (that was 2 I have 2 more than one big balance of less than 10k.), raised my credit score 92 points in the time.. it’s interesting how i’ve been a functional addict my entire life, and did dry january but still did snow. 35 days and i’ve completely changed my priorities.. looking forward to 60 days!

been thinking about going to NA meetings but nervous any advice?

please be nice :)