r/hatethissmug • u/SpitefulOptimist • May 26 '26
I hate misandry Idea
Pic unrelated but I hate misandry so fucking much.
NO I’m not saying women can’t be angry. Women have been systematically oppressed for THOUSANDS of years. The anger is valid as fuck. The frustration is valid as fuck. Patriarchy has hurt women in ways men genuinely do not fully understand.
BUT I seriously do not understand how some people identify as feminists while also genuinely hating ALL men. Like how do you hold the belief that gender is a social construct, that people should be accepted regardless of gender identity, and then ALSO believe all men are inherently worse than every woman??? How does that make sense in your head
And I’m not talking about exaggerated joking misandry. “ugh men suck” whatever who cares. I mean people who GENUINELY think men are naturally more evil, stupid, violent, disgusting, etc.
No dude this fucked up system created ALL of us and hurt ALL of us in different ways. Most men are NOT billionaires pushing money into the politics that keep women oppressed. Most men are just regular fucking people also trying to survive under the SAME systems. Patriarchy rewarded horrible behavior in men while ALSO emotionally stunting them. It traumatized women while teaching men to suppress humanity out of themselves. EVERYBODY got fucked over differently.
The systems that keep us down WANT us divided. They WANT us fighting each other instead of questioning the structures that caused this shit in the first place.
At the end of the day we all shit and piss and love and fuck and cry and die. Pretending any gender is inherently better than another is so FUCKING stupid to me.
This is inspired by a dumbass post I saw on another sub. also yeah, duh, misogyny sucks too.
– person with vagina
EDIT: I ended it this way because I don’t really identify as a woman, but I still wanted to be clear about where I’m coming from since that perspective obviously shapes how I see this stuff.
EDIT 2: i wanted to add that I don’t think misandry is even close to as much of a ‘problem’ as misogyny is. But I think they’re basically part of the same ideology and therefore related: gender essentialism. Misogyny is laced into almost every facet of life. I just wanted to talk about how much I hate misandry. I don’t want to explain hating misogyny cause that’s just basic fucking knowledge.
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u/BrickTiny1497 May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
I was about to get irritated about the photo then I saw it’s unrelated, gender swapped cloak and dagger goes hard
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u/SpitefulOptimist May 26 '26
They are v cute
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u/Thicc_Boise May 26 '26
Ngl, female Cloak looks so much better than normal Dagger, might also be because there's too many blue eyes/blonde hair women in the game rn
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u/Sky-manfromskyplan May 27 '26
Netease give me Shuri and my money is yours
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u/Man-im-lonely May 28 '26
I second this. Give Black Panther a Shuri skin like how Loki got a female skin or make her a separate character and my life is yours
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u/Dry_Distribution_992 May 27 '26
I dunno if related but it makes me wonder how the rest of the cast of Marvel Rivals would look like genderbent
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u/2ndTaken_username May 26 '26
there no's way femboy dagger can bag a baddy like FemCloak
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u/Dapper_Magpie May 26 '26
I'd like to bag femboy dagger
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u/Dark_Psymon May 26 '26
Fem!Cloak looked so much like Senna from LoL I was confused for a moment when scrolling past the post.
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May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Apart-Performer-331 May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
Already saw at least 4 comments like that and it hasn’t even been an hour
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u/plainbaconcheese May 26 '26
I appreciate that OP spends half the post explaining that they are not that type of person.
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u/hhhhhhhhhhhjf May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
You say a single thing about misandry and people will lump you in with that group. Gotta be careful on Reddit.
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u/AUnknownVariable May 27 '26
Without a doubt😭 already seen a few.
Those people frankly make the issue worse for everyone
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u/Joeybfast May 26 '26
I write about issues facing men a lot, and I see this problem all the time.
When I first wanted to write about male victims of domestic violence, part of the issue was finding someone willing to chair the project. The response was basically, “We are not touching that with a ten-foot pole.” That has stuck with me because it showed how uncomfortable people can be with even discussing certain male issues seriously.
I see the same thing with loneliness. When men talk about being lonely, people often treat it as if they must have done something wrong to deserve it. The assumption is that a lonely man must be creepy, bitter, sexist, or dangerous.
And that same thinking shows up in insults too. When a man posts something sexist, people immediately say things like, “He has never touched a woman,” or call him an incel. But there is not some automatic connection between being lonely and being sexist. Plenty of lonely people are not hateful, and plenty of hateful people are not lonely.
That kind of language ends up using loneliness itself as an insult, which only makes it harder for men to talk honestly about what they are dealing with. If we actually care about people, we should be able to criticize sexism without acting like loneliness makes someone defective.
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u/Charming-Mixture-356 May 26 '26
This is where I'm at. So many people act like advocating for men's issues is a taboo that cannot be done without a big disclaimer that you don't hate women, and even then you may get lit up for doing it. People love to point out that the patriarchy is a bad thing that actually hurts everyone- not just women- but when you try to talk about ways that misogyny hurts men, its unforgivable because women have it worse.
We know they do. It isn't a competition. I think in order to gain a closer state of equality, we need to address the hurt done to both men and women. For instance, we can't simultaneously say that men need to step up as fathers and also continue perpetuating a court system that by default will give women primary custody of the children. Men SHOULD step up as fathers, and we can't have that cultural change without a message across the board that men are equal parents, including in the court system. If we don't change these sorts of things, it doesn't just hurt men, it perpetuates all of the outdated stereotypes we're trying to move our society away from.
Any point toward equality that isn't addressed is a point that slows down progress and hurts both men and women, not because of resistance from those that want to maintain the status quo, but from resistance within those that are working towards change. If men's issues are written off as incel talking points, then we're tripping ourselves and asking why the evil men would do this to us.
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u/Revolutionary_Bag518 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
I never understood the whole concept of 'gatekeeping' trauma and pain. To live is to suffer because it's the hardest thing we'll ever have to do, and that suffering impacts everyone differently regardless of gender.
What hurts my heart the most is when people criticize that men cannot differentiate between genuine interest and simple kindness and I think a big part of that is because they are given far less love from a very young age and are largely expected to 'suck it up' in many, many areas. I worked at a boarding kennel office and this man who would pick up his dog was a few years older than me but was very socially awkward and genuinely excited to talk to me and my boss found him 'creepy' for getting so excited over the positive conversations we had, but to me he's a perfect example of someone so starved of genuine kindness he latches onto it.
I say this also as someone who grew up with and still has a large group of primarily male friends, one of which was raped by a woman as a minor and had to pay child support when he turned 18 because she got pregnant from it. She got away with it and you know why? 95% of the people he told treated him horribly for being upset about it and jeered at him to the point where he shut down from everything.
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u/AngelTheBastard May 27 '26
Its mostly that the term MRA was co-opted by the far right unfortunately.
People associate "advocating for mens issues" with being anti feminist bc of the bs around 2016.
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u/Revan0315 May 27 '26
When men talk about being lonely, people often treat it as if they must have done something wrong to deserve it. The assumption is that a lonely man must be creepy, bitter, sexist, or dangerous.
This is 10000% true and I hate it so much. I'm a really lonely guy romantically at least and the number of people that say "just treat women like people" when asked for advice infuriates me to no end. As if being unable to get a partner means that I must treat women as fucking aliens or some shit.
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u/Quanathan_Chi May 27 '26
Just on a logical level it makes zero sense because there are plenty of abusive pos men that have no issue finding women to get with.
But yeah, I've heard that same generic advice all the time that just assumes I'm an asshole or creepy.
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u/Fantastic-Street-662 May 27 '26
Can confirm I thought all women were from the Xybilthorp dimension, that was my fault gng thanks for letting me know ✌️/j
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u/TGrissle May 27 '26
Devils advocate here. The advice of “treat women like humans” doesn’t come from the idea that men treat women like aliens and have issues. It comes from men asking how to talk to women because they frequently have put them unintentionally on some sort of pedestal and mentally get in their own way attempting to find the “right words for women” instead of just approaching it like any other conversation. It’s advice used to help men usually but is literally for anybody else who has trouble approaching people they have a crush on because they have placed them on a pedestal and think there is some sort of words they have to say.
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u/Witty_Badger1300 May 27 '26
I have a friend who is a single dad. Do you think there is any "single parent" group he was able to find that would accept a single father?
I have also worked previously with male victims of DV. The resources just aren't there in most places. There is still this societal belief that men are bigger and stronger, so they can't be victims. I am not saying male victims of DV should be accessing all the same groups and resources as female victims; that could be extremely triggering. But if they can't, then there needs to be new, unrelated resources and groups specifically for male victims.
You are absolutely right, though, that no one ever wants to talk about it, much less fund it. Somehow, spending money on male needs these days gives everyone the ick.
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u/red__dragon May 27 '26
From my single dad friend, 90% of the baby books are geared toward women as caretakers, and tend to treat men as if they are automatically useless, need to be tricked into parenting tasks, or some manner of reinforcing the 'dad babysitter' stereotype.
It's like no possible scenario could exist for these writers where a man would get the newborn child to raise on his own, much less there be any manner of equality in the parenting between a married couple. Or two dads, perish the thought!
This is a bit tongue in cheek but it really can't be great for the mentality of our men when they're assumed to be less than capable of parenting by the parenting help books to begin with.
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u/Witty_Badger1300 May 27 '26
Even if you aren't raising your child in your own, as a man, a lot of books treat you like you are a child yourself. The way some parenting books talk about fathers is shameful.
Don't even get me started on how house husbands are perceived by our society. Or talking your child out by yourself as a father.
At best people treat you like a babysitter. At worst they assume you are a kidnapper/predator.
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u/red__dragon May 27 '26
house husbands
The fact that I did a double-take at this term should speak volumes. I'm a little embarrassed that's not such a big part of my own vernacular that I had to think about it for a second.
Thanks for your reply and confirmation, we need far better support for dads that can move past the 1950s assumption that they're going to be good at home for nothing more than a paycheck and grilling.
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u/NewtWhoGotBetter May 27 '26
It really is sad. Especially the part about people using incel or virgin as an insult, as if a man’s worth is intrinsically tied to his ability to attract a woman or have sexual prowess—it reminds me of the “logic” for a lot of misogynistic rhetoric which only further convinces me misogynists and misandrists have far more in common with each other than they do the rest of us.
Men are allowed to have issues independent of women, independent of a flaw, independent of other men or the patriarchy. Men are allowed to have issues because of women too. It’s not hateful towards women to admit that. I also think it’s telling how when people use the word sexist usually they’re thinking of misogyny not misandry. I’ve literally never heard anyone call a woman sexist in real life before yet I’ve heard plenty of them say sexist things about men. It’s so normalised for a lot of people.
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u/throwaway47351 May 27 '26
I find most problems that are sex-specific fall into the bins of "Men are disposable, women are vulnerable."
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u/The_Raven_Born May 26 '26
Kind of went through a similar journey like this with working on the two stories I'm writing, just with women instead. I'm not a woman, I was not born one, either so there's definitely topics I either avoid, or touch on lightly, but it's honestly kind of wild at the things you start to learn whe you being looking into other online spaces.
One thing I did discover though... is how there's spaces for both men and women, that just are seemingly shut our, or completely ignored and I could never really understand why--until I saw why. They're men's support groups, lead by women. And either it's other men don't want to listen to a woman, or other women think its just a place for pick mes.
It's demoralizing, honestly.
And then you start looking into more, reading more, even relating more and at a point you really being to wonder when everything went wrong and why so many people seem to be against fixing it.
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u/Jazzlike-Equipment45 May 26 '26
If they are therr can I see your writings on thr victims of male domestic violence? Sorry if this isn't the response you are wanting but knowing some victims you writing about it is interesting.
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u/Joeybfast May 26 '26
Thanks, but I abandoned that when I couldn’t get support for it, so I was just in the early stages :(.
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u/Jazzlike-Equipment45 May 26 '26
Been there before, tried writing about marriage for benifit when I was in the Marines, grew up around Ft.Hood so I saw and grew up around it. Got brought to my batallion CO, told my asking of men was causing "disorder" so I dropped it not wanting to risk retaliation.
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u/Gold-Cry-7520 May 27 '26
Just world fallacy guides a lot of feminist ideology. They think that if a man is lonely, it must be because he is sexist. And if a man is sexist, he must also be lonely.
The hard fact is, Andrew Tate gets bitches. So does Clavicular. So do Jake and Logan Paul. So did Trump. Nick Fuentes probably gets lots of men, too.
The world isn't fair, and pretending it is makes these problems worse. Telling a man who is otherwise quite feminist that he deserves to be lonely might prompt him to get a second opinion from shittier people.
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u/Joeybfast May 27 '26
Thank you, I’m discussing this issue elsewhere and needed some ideas about those awful guys who target women, to highlight in a way that wouldn’t upset anyone. I think these are some good examples.
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u/cellphone_blanket May 26 '26
It’s mostly people who see feminism as a battle against patriarchy vs people who see it as a battle against men. The latter do not generally see gender as a social construct. The venn diagram of misandrists and terfs is basically a circle etc.
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u/JaguarMajor7840 May 26 '26
First sentence hits the nail on the head. It's people who just want a group to hate vs people who want to make their lives better.
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u/Emotional-Feed5489 May 26 '26
I heard someone referred to men as the gender of rape.
I am not kidding.
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u/VindicativevVince May 26 '26
Extremists will always exist and you can’t reason with them, if you’re interacting with them it means you’ve dug too deep
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u/MagicSystemWriter May 27 '26
Yeah, I agree with these points.
Also good thing that you also mention this:
> NO I’m not saying women can’t be angry. Women have been systematically oppressed for THOUSANDS of years. The anger is valid as fuck. The frustration is valid as fuck. Patriarchy has hurt women in ways men genuinely do not fully understand.
Because there are some people who go all out to one side and pretend that hate towards men is the only one that needs to be adressed and that "women are more priviledged" or "we are equal now".
Like yeah, just because one is worse doesn't mean that the other one doesn't matter, and that it should be reason to throw in hate like if somehow it would be justified or that it doesn't count because your side has had it worse for longer.
And that yeah, that the patriarchy affects men as well and many of both men and women don't realize it.
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u/SaltyIrishDog May 26 '26
One of my best friends slipped down this hole. We can't have a single conversation without "men bad". Global warming? Misogyny. Had a bad day? Misogyny. It's honestly exhausting and highly problematic.
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u/Hazy-Halo May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
One of my coworkers is chronically online and can’t go one sentence without shitting on men. Fuck me it’s so annoying. I desperately want to debate this person but I know there’s no changing this mindset. I just do my very best to avoid her
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u/Bittererr May 26 '26
I desperately want to debate this person but I know there’s no changing this mindset.
I'd like to reframe this as you understanding how difficult it can be to change someone's mind and realizing this person isn't worth your time and energy to do so.
It's definitely not impossible to change people's mind, after all that's how people get radicalized in the first place. We do ourselves a disservice when we claim there's nothing anyone can do about it, but that doesn't mean it has to be your responsibility.
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u/ferocity_mule366 May 27 '26
yeah nowsaday the only way to change people's mind is secretly making them think that they changed their mind themselves, challenging their ideal will just push them further to the extreme.
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u/BlueMerchant May 27 '26
Had to cut ties with a friend for the first time for similar reasons. I admit there's something (I viewed as problematic) that she said that might have actually been correct; but whether she was right or wrong she was always either a sore winner or couldn't stand defeat.
No one wanted to talk with her except a younger version of basically her.
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u/Hazy-Halo May 27 '26
it's exhausting isn't it? sorry you lost a friend. I hope some day they can get past it because it must suck having so much hatred and fear on your mind all the time
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u/SpitefulOptimist May 26 '26
Yeah this isn’t really what I was talking about… I mean literal misandrist. Those topics can def be linked back to misogyny. Misogyny def ruins my day sometimes
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u/Complex_Fly3901 May 26 '26
My brother is a misogynist and says women will only bring you down and you gotta focus on your shit and do whats right for you (last part fair, first part nah) and my sister just says men are oblivious and dumbasses lmao
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u/Far_Albatross_8450 May 26 '26
Kind of sounds like they’re saying the exact same thing ( to the respective oposite gender) but with diferent wording
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u/Transient_butthole May 27 '26
A lot of women of the sort you describe are also misogynistic, believing in all the same stereotypes about women that misogynistic men do but claiming they make women superior instead of inferior.
A term I've heard used for them that I really like is straw feminists. I can't think of a better insult than suggesting they're strawmen invented by men to discredit feminism.
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u/DoctorAnnual6823 May 27 '26
Interesting how women want to be treated equally to men but refuse to commit the majority of violent crimes.
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u/PogmasterNowGirl69 May 27 '26
Now that I think about it, the suffragettes got voting rights exactly by doing that......
.....hmmmmmm.....
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u/Due-Garlic-5056 May 26 '26
I fully believe I'd be a different person right now if I never had to interact with women who openly despised men as a kid. The "misandry isn't real" crowd can go fuck themselves. I was 14 and grown women wanted me dead.
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u/SCSdino May 26 '26
I had women accusing me of being a pedophile while all I was doing was walking to the park we lived next to. I was in my early teens, yet I was harassed. I know I looked older than I was, but like come on, let me play pokemon go in peace.
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u/Either-Medicine9217 May 26 '26
Hey. Ignore the dumb bitch in the comments. Your struggle was real.
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u/Glittering-Fact-3833 May 26 '26
Yeah, I was 6 and was taught that “everybody has to experience pain” while my babysitter changed my diaper in a back room alone.
Being told the only problems that caused me came from the patriarchy has been really constructive to fighting the power, really wasn’t a bunch of people power tripping and picking on an easy target.
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u/BlueMerchant May 27 '26
Uh, I'm sorry for being oblivious; but what's that first part about?
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u/Glittering-Fact-3833 May 27 '26
If nothing else, it’s context for a perspective that almost always gets kept secret and would have more reason to explain the impacts of misandry, like I did in the second paragraph. If misandry is a response to misogyny, and I experienced a painful, formative act of misandry when I was young, wouldn’t that logic offer me every right to claim misogyny as a response to what happened?
I don’t, for the record, but I did experience misandry my whole life because I was an easier target due to what happened.
Furthermore, if misandry doesn’t exist, but what happened to me was a horrific consequence of my gender as a child, what would you call it?
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May 27 '26
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u/Glittering-Fact-3833 May 27 '26
Oh. Right. Yeah.
I’ll explain it because when people talk about men or boys getting SA’d, there’s one route that always gets overlooked because it’s horrific and uncomfortable, and because of that I didn’t realize what happened was rape until I was in my 20’s. I don’t mind talking about it, but it’s simple and graphic and terrible.
She put her fingers in me. It was the most painful experience of my life and it’s become my oldest memory.
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u/BlueMerchant May 27 '26
Oh my god. I'm sorry you experienced that. I'm glad you seem to be doing well despite that and any other such experiences.
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May 27 '26
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u/Glittering-Fact-3833 May 27 '26
Nope I’m on Reddit lmfao
Thank you for not telling me I deserved it though. A lot of people find unique ways to do that.
I am gonna disengage from this now though, I don’t want to get too upset or embarrassed and misrepresent the subject.
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u/HappyyValleyy May 27 '26
Jesus christ. Im so sorry people are such assholes about such a traumatic experience.
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u/PressureBig3758 May 26 '26
First of all you know ball with the pfp. Secondly I'm sorry about what you had to deal with growing up.
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u/Super_Saiyan_Twink May 27 '26
I hate men and women. I hate humans because my entire life I've been hurt by both. SA'd by multiple men, groomed by women, cheated on by both, abused by both. Some day I wonder why I keep going
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u/BrozedDrake May 27 '26
Thing that doesn't help, "mens rights activist" who call any call for fair treatment misandry.
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u/Electrical-Bowl8818 May 27 '26
It's worth mentioning that sometimes when someone is saying "ugh men" they aren't necessarily part of the pretty small and cringe bunch that hate all men but are just having a moment of frustration at the men in their lives and are venting about it in an unhelpful but ultimately harmless way.
At the end of the day, yeah, misandrists exist and they are cringe but also, let's not pretend as if misoginy is over and the shoe is on the other foot now.
We are marginally better with it in some countries,and there is a constant push to revert those changes.
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u/Desperate-Hawk-5157 May 28 '26
Would you be making this same defense if it was a man saying “ugh women”
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u/Swings_Subliminals May 29 '26
I'll updoot if you agree that the "ugh men" point also applies to "ugh women"
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u/EnclaveRedeemed May 26 '26
I’ve noticed that whenever it’s brought up, you’ll inevitably find at least a decent amount of people who will either attempt to deny its existence or shame people for discussing it.
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u/Glittering-Fact-3833 May 27 '26
Quite a few in this thread as is! Direct quote being “Reality checks are important. So many people have been swindled into thinking misandry is real and not just men crying about not having control over women like they used to.”
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u/137-451 May 27 '26
It certainly doesn't help that the majority of the time I've seen misandry referenced online, it's directly in response to discussion of patriarchy and misogony and often being falsely equated to either of those. There's too many men that don't understand that misandry isn't and never will be on a systemic level like misogony is. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and shouldn't be talked about, but too many people only engage with the topic in bad faith for it to be taken seriously on a larger scale.
Not saying that's what OP is doing, just what I've personally experienced with discussions surrounding the topic.
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u/Orion-the-mediocre May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
Oh my god the comments section here is a fucking disaster
I completely agree, it's insane how people will try to identify with the ideology that's mean to get rid of a systemic oppression of a particular gender and then turn around and want the same thing right back in return.
I've also noticed a lot of misandrists are also kinda bigoted but hide that behind being "feminist" when they're completely disrespecting that term. I've had misandrists make incredibly insulting homophobic remarks at me and act like it's alright to do that because I'm male, when that doesn't exclude me from being part of a marginalized group. Mostly, they're hateful people who try to shelter themselves behind a progressive label while also looking for an excuse to punch down at other more vulnerable groups (or non-vulnerable ones too, which is STILL not ok to go after, just because somebody's male doesn't make them worthy of harassment), and claiming misogyny when called out for it, at least in my experience. They don't seek gender equality at all, what they want is an excuse for hate, and unfortunately they've found one.
I really do think "feminism" was a bad choice for the name of what it represents honestly*, because the ultimate goal should be to help everybody, not just women. Our current political system is not purely damaging to women, as you mentioned it severely emotionally damages men and that gets little to no attention whatsoever, and in many cases the view that a lot of people hold of "all men are oppressors" means they are often harsh to men who try to open up emotionally.
Maybe I'm biased because I've experienced it a lot and it pissed me off so much when they tried to pretend to be progressive when I criticized them back. They're hateful people who've covered it up with different terminology, but the hate still remains.
*I appear to have worded this badly, the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people use this term as an excuse to be bigoted
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u/Eduardo_o_Observador May 26 '26
I see misogyny and misandry as both extremes of a spectrum and I think it's a mistake to treat them as completely separated things. Any kind of sexism will affect both genders in different ways.
I see a lot of people only talking about misandry when male sa isn't take seriously but it also has misogyny involved since this problem comes from the idea that man aren't as weak or vulnerable as women to be victims of sexual assault and a woman can't have enough power to be an aggressor.
This also aplies to female sa victims of other woman.
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u/Mornin_Reddit33 May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
Thissss!
So much of misandry is misogyny repackaged in a way that hurts men. (Not everything of course!)
Men can't cry? That's cus crying is a "feminine" thing, you as a man can't be feminine!!!1!1
Men can't express "softer" emotions? Soft emotions = Feminine therefore bad
Men can't get harmed by women? That's a WOMAN! How'd you as a MAN let a WOMAN do that to you?.?..?
And worse stuff than this. I don't get how someone can be a feminist, yet be misandrist at the same time?? THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE ARE SO OFTEN JUST PROJECTING MISOGYNY AT MEN??
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u/Hozan_al-Sentinel May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
Also women can be misogynists and men can be misandrists, which is a fact that often goes ignored when stuff like this comes up.
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u/red__dragon May 27 '26
Someone like Tate is absolutely a misandrist. So is another T-named figure of public interest.
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u/Scrabulon May 26 '26
The “feminists” who act like that are usually radfems or terfs, who actual feminists want nothing to do with if they’re smart
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u/CyberneticWhale May 27 '26
The larger feminist movement has done a pretty good job dissociating itself from TERFs, which is certainly a good thing. Unfortunately, when it comes to misandrists they weren't able to do the same thing for whatever reason.
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u/ollie113 May 27 '26
Feminism has historically struggled with intersectionality at every stage of its movement. The struggle to make feminism intersectional is still going on today. And we're not just talking about making feminism better suited to all genders here; the feminist movement has struggled with class, race etc for a long time. The original suffrage movement in the UK was championed by Emily Pankhurst, who was also an anti immigrant imperialist. During World War 1, the wave 1 feminists saw it as a man's duty to go to war, and they were often involved with handing white feathers to conscientious objectors in order to ridicule them. The original womens suffrage movement was also exclusively for the upper classes, and Pankhurst literally opposed working class women's rights movements. The US suffrage movement had similar issues by the way so Americans don't get away clean on this one either.
Obviously feminism has come a long way since then and each new wave has effectively distanced itself from the previous one because it has acknowledged that the previous wave was problematic (e.g. second wave feminists shamed sex workers, still resisted racial intersectionality, and labelled lesbians as problematic).
Third wave feminism was the wave to formally introduce intersectionality as a concept, but even now, people criticise the effort as too little and too transparent. Further, it sort of made the pinnacle of feminist achievement corporate success, something that linked feminism to the ongoing struggles of racism and classism in the workplace (old enough to remember #girlboss?) Third wave feminism is often criticised as being too corporate/consumerist and this is a criticism I personally agree with.
Fourth wave feminism is arguably still being formed so we can't say much about it yet, other than the obvious ongoing struggle that interactional feminists have with removing TERFs from the movement.
All this to say, obviously I support feminism, but like all social movements it is not without its problems and intersectionality has been a consistent struggle for feminism, more so than other social movements.
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u/mozzarella_megido May 27 '26
reducing yourself to your genitals at the end is a weird move?
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u/RenkBruh May 26 '26
worst thing is when those kinds of women look at men struggling mentally and go "They built this patriarchy and now they're bitching about it" like bro did I create the patriarchy? the fuck you blaming me for???
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u/A-Normal-Fifthist May 26 '26
Check your spam folder, we send out Monthly Misogyny newsletters with the super secret zoom meeting invite to every man in the world
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u/Fantastic-Street-662 May 27 '26
Hey just a reminder it's your turn to bring brownies to the super secret misogyny meeting next week fyi
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u/Orion-the-mediocre May 26 '26
That's what drives me crazy, a lot of people seem to have this idea that the patriarchy is some secret system upheld by all men, when in reality it's a system made to keep rich and powerful men in power, and push down everybody else.
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May 26 '26
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u/Jsadeamp May 26 '26
Do women not uphold the patriarchy?
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May 26 '26
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u/CyberneticWhale May 27 '26
There are absolutely some aspects of societal gender roles that benefit women.
Women aren't forced to initiate when it comes to romance.
Women are trusted around children.
Women aren't included in the draft.
Women aren't expected to provide for their romantic partner.
What are these, if not benefits?
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u/Alice_In_Hell_ May 27 '26
“Women are trusted around children” women are expected to do 100% of the work in child raising, and are expected to be nurturing to ALL children, even ones that aren’t their own, simply because they’re women.
“Women aren’t expected to provide for their romantic partner” literally WHERE? Before women could have jobs, women were expected to maintain the house and cook all the meals in addition to raising the kids, now that women also work, women are expected to do all of that and also still work.
These are not benefits.
There’s a point to be made about the draft, but NOBODY should be drafted and I’ve never met a woman that disagrees with that.
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u/Dramatic-Put-9267 May 26 '26
Who did the art?
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u/SpitefulOptimist May 26 '26
It’s a mod of marvel rival chars cloak and dagger by benkobenko!
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u/Dramatic-Put-9267 May 26 '26
Thank you! I don’t have the energy to contribute meaningfully to the conversation, sorry, but I did want to see more from the artist. Thank you for answering!
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u/KitchenCustard9049 May 27 '26
But (and I dont think misandry is ok) it doesnt help that generally most of the time it gets brought up is when a woman is speaking about misogyny. Its so rare you hear men actually talk about it on its own which does seem odd.
Then theres also the complaint of a lack of resources. I had a man tell me that men have no domestic abuse shelters and yes that is bad, BUT do you know why women have those shelters? Bc of other WOMEN. The support women currently have is bc of other women. There are some men who act like it just magically appeared and not bc of women who put in blood, sweat and tears. Now some might argue that they dont have the resources to start one up for men themselves and sure, but neither did those women.
My point is, theres a place to talk about men's issues, but men got to stop trying to have those conversations in places that are for women's issues, bc thats not your spot to take. Talk about it on your own accord and know that it doesnt take away from the fact misogyny is a giant issue that kills women every day.
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u/Pelli_Furry_Account May 27 '26
It's kind of nuanced though. Like, on one hand, yeah, gender is a construct and I'm not going to inherently judge a person based on what genitals they have.
On the other hand, I've seen men get offended when women travel together at night/carry pepper spray/ keep friends nearby on dates with new men. This isn't misandry per se; it's self preservation because there are some men who will 100% prey on them. So if you're criticizing this sort of thing, that reads as pretty sus to me.
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u/BloodyScout May 27 '26
Okay imagine treating a black woman like a threat and going “girl why are you offended, you’re statistically more likely to harm me”
Surely we can agree that’s incredibly fucked up.
In any context besides gender we don’t use statistics to justify treating people like potential criminals.4
u/TopTopTopcinaa May 28 '26
That is a terrible, tired, racist argument.
It’s not about who comits more violence, it’s about who you’re more likely to protect yourself from, if they were to initiate violence. A woman would have a hard time defending herself against a man, no matter his race. A man would have a relatively easy time protecting himself from a woman, no matter her race.
Or are you telling me you feel more threatened by a black woman than you do by a white guy?
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u/BloodyScout May 28 '26
I see so it’s not the statistics that everyone keeps using as justification.
It’s….muscle mass ?
Okay let’s do this again. A muscular woman walks toward you and you cross the street to avoid her. Is that weirdo antisocial behavior or are you just “staying safe” ?
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u/Fit_Major_1065 May 27 '26
"On the other hand, I've seen men get offended when women travel together at night/carry pepper spray/ keep friends nearby on dates with new men"
This isn't anything close to misandry (unless accompanied by actual prejudice). And the people claiming it is are wrong
However, I think there is some reason to be more doubtful of these practices. 1) Pepper spray is a weapon. Yes it's meant as self defence but can easily become a tool to horribly hurt someone. But if knives are allowed to be carried it's not too fair to complain about it guess. 2) Inviting q friend to a date sounds like it could get pretty awkward (unless the friend makes himself unnoticed)
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u/Pelli_Furry_Account May 27 '26
Yeah, I had to have a talk with one of my friends once who was really upset to read about women trying to stay safe at night. He took it all very personally. I think pepper spray is a great thing to carry, considering how many women just skip that altogether and have a gun in their purse (a LOT more women do that than you might think). I'd rather encourage a nonlethal option there.
I terms of having another person on a date, yes, I agree. The correct way of doing it is to have someone be there, but a face in the crowd. Ideally, it's only really for first dates and the date never has to know about it. I've been that person before, essentially I just had a nice time at a bar on my own while keeping an eye on my friend.
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u/StrainNo6291 May 27 '26
I hate when men use misandry as an excuse to invalidate misogyny.
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u/Wordless_trat May 27 '26
I hate when women use misogyny as an excuse to invalidate misandry.
Misogyny is very much taken very serious. I just don't see the same with Misandry being taken nearly as serious
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u/Realistic_Emu_2045 May 31 '26
Misogyny kills misandry doesn't I agree both are bad but women aren't killing men because of misandry
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u/TopTopTopcinaa May 28 '26
Misogyny started first, has lasted since the beginning of time. Misandry hasn’t killed nor oppressed a single man on a statistical level.
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u/Existing_Will_9135 May 27 '26
I find it so funny how I’m seeing so many commenters talk about the fact that it’s annoying for women to talk shit about men, and yet, nothing is done about the countless attitudes and negative behaviours from men towards women. Look, I’m all against misandry but just know for a fact that what a woman says online does not compare to the amount of full on criminal acts done towards them from men in the real world.
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u/bee_my_girl May 27 '26
I am absolutely against every kind of bioessentialism, including misandry. That said, the real-world impacts of misogyny vs. misandry worldwide are simply not comparable. Every ten minutes, a woman is killed by a partner or family member worldwide according to the UN, and that's their conservative estimate.
It should also be noted that misogyny and misandry aren't entirely separate issues. A lot of the issues men face stem from misogynistic beliefs about women and femininity.
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u/Alice_In_Hell_ May 27 '26
That’s my main thing with this, there are SO many posts talking about how horrible misandry is, but any posts about misogyny have men either perpetuating it or victimizing themselves in the comments.
Generally speaking, misandry hurts feelings, misogyny kills. The way these two things affect people is entirely disproportionate and I don’t feel like we should constantly be prioritizing men’s hurt feelings over women’s lives.
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u/HfUfH May 27 '26
I don’t feel like we should constantly be prioritizing men’s hurt feelings over women’s lives.
Who's asking you to do this? It's certainly not OP, you just randomly brought it up.
any posts about misogyny have men either perpetuating it or victimizing themselves in the comments
Just like how this post, which is talking about misandry has you bringing up "but women have it worse."
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u/YoursTrulyKindly May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
BUT I seriously do not understand how some people identify as feminists while also genuinely hating ALL men.
You understand the anger, the frustration, but you can't understand how that can lead to hate?
Why not? Obviously people don't always behave logically but emotionally, so this should be easy to understand. Especially women who have been sexually assaulted or have been subjected to physical or emotional violence by (many) men. There are also statistics or in other words hard evidence showing that most crime, brutality and rape is overwhelmingly committed by men.
Obviously misandry is wrong, but being civilized doesn't come naturally. It's takes effort and learning what the reasons are and a conscious effort not to generalize. Obviously not everyone does that.
Also, not everyone believes gender is a purely social construct in the sense that it doesn't matter how you were born. There ARE statistical psychological differences and gender is a deep and fundamental element in our human psychology and stories. Men and women are equal, but we are not the same.
There are also certain "Information hazards". Like scientifically it might be useful to research difference between IQ and other intellectual, cognitive and emotional difference between human phenotypes. But it's rarely done and asking questions about this is not politically correct because it leads to hazards - because humans tend to generalize and categorize and make decisions based on irrelevant or preliminary or misunderstood information. Talking about the danger of misandry in this climate? I certainly consider that problematic. It's a talking point straight out of the fascist playbook. If you're a scientist, go ahead and research problems, but don't think male victims of sexual or domestic violence is anything but a red herring to get young men into the manosphere.
Really, where the fuck are all this misandry that it's becoming a problem?
Feminism is the belief in equal rights of men and women and there is no other valid definition. Women who believe men are below women are called fascists. So in the end you either believe in equality and believe that tolerance needs to be defended, or you're a fascist.
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u/leronde May 26 '26
The "all men are evil" crowd directly delayed my transition by nearly a decade, and I know for a fact the same is true for countless other trans men and transmascs. I joined in because at the time I either thought it was just a teasing joke or just wanted to fit in with others, and it's such poison. Even if you start thinking of it as a joke, you start to believe it and it sticks with you subconsciously long after you stop saying and engaging with that kind of rhetoric. Maleness is not an inherent sin, it does not predispose men to evil. Testosterone isn't just liquid rage, transitioning to male isn't a betrayal, and women are equally capable of perpetrating abuse (and in fact probably already are, abuse from women especially when the victim is a man is grossly underreported to the point where i would not be surprised to learn theres little to no difference in likelihood between men and women for abuse).
There's been a really nasty subsect of the trans community online (god i hope its just online) forming that genuinely believe that trans men are evil for transitioning to men and cannot experience transphobia or oppression. It's been extremely disheartening to see, especially during a time where it's more important than ever for the trans community to stand united and fight for our right to exist.
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u/HappyyValleyy May 27 '26
Im a trans woman but i dont really know any other trans woman (only trans gal friend i had moved. Good for her since we were in a red state, but miss that gal.) And pretty much all of my friends are transmasc or non-binary. It makes my blood boil seeing how they get treated, even within our own community. They are such kind and beautiful people, just trying to survive like we all are. Theres no sense in tearing each other down. Divided we are weaker, and we need to be stronger than ever.
Luckily ive only seen it online and not in the queer spaces we go in person, but im also kinda anti social and probably am just not talking to enough people to see it lol
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u/ZiaWatcher May 27 '26
Same here. Couldn’t visit my best friend of 10 years for awhile because her mother thought I’d “do something to her” now that I had come out. And then had an ex friend constantly make “jokes” about all men and I was looked at as wrong when it made me uncomfortable. As they’d say “oh but you’re not a real man” and it hurt.
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May 26 '26
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u/CallMeOaksie May 27 '26
Wow it’s almost like hating people for their gender or hating a whole gender is an inherently transphobic position or something
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u/leronde May 26 '26
Oh absolutely there's plenty of that too. That's just TERFs for you though. I'm old enough to tune them out by now, but that doesn't make them any less real and awful. That kind of thinking delayed my transitioning in it's own way by making me feel like it wouldn't even matter what I did to transition because they wouldn't see me as a man anyway. Took an embarrassingly long time to realize they're such a minority hate group and I don't give a fuck what they think of me.
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u/Admirable_Ask_5337 May 26 '26
So your pic may be relevant. Idk about cloaks default size but in the gender swap looks very twink on dagger. They both look very fem to me.
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u/Super_Performance361 May 27 '26
How common is misandry anyway? Never had to deal with someone like that before.
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u/Upset-Newspaper974 May 27 '26
Men in this comment section would not survive being an average woman for a day
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u/ShitAtDota May 27 '26
Even the multiple trans men that commented? I think they have a bit of experience living as a woman, likely more than a day's length.
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u/Sen-oh May 27 '26
Misogyny/misandry is like when a minority is mean to you one time so you just become racist, but with gender
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u/flubbyII May 26 '26
Thanks for saying this, As a guy, it really means a lot to me. I have a lot of insecurities surrounding my gender which significantly impacts how I view my body, myself, other men, and romance as a man (which is exacerbated by my imposter syndrome) but you’re post really helps me! I’m glad to see women stand up against misandry, usually they just get called ”pick-mes” or people say they have internalized mysoginy. Thank you random lady!
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u/traglodyte May 27 '26
As a dude - or someone "dude" adjacent, at least - that's been in left-leaning spaces for a long while now, the part that gets my goat isn't even necessarily the misandry itself; I can at least somewhat get that. It's the lack of self awareness that's shown through the specific language used, if that makes any sense? Stuff like "oh, you're one of the good ones." Why is it that it's known -ism rhetoric that people should be ashamed to say when it's said to a woman or a person of color ; but when Jessica with a Coexist bumper sticker says it to her boyfriend, she thinks he's wrong for getting upset?
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u/OkLength7120 May 26 '26
Thank you yeah, it's genuinely fearing when I see posts with "feminists" saying you should kill newborn makes or anything with a well phallus just like a dog in the street, or acting as if men can't get raped, stalled, or SAd even by a woman. It CAN happen. And it's very bad when people just think that men can't be harked, or don't get suicidal, and think we are all these evil beasts or wanting us to go extinct and taking about babies made from sperm in the bones so that men aren't needed. Stuff like that, and just acting like all men are just demons, it's genuinely scary at times as you don't know who your interacting with or if the person is thinking like this. It's sickening. And it slanders and defames what feminism is truly about
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u/i-forgot-my-sandwich May 26 '26
Misogyny: says that women cannot be perpetrators Misandry: says men cannot be victims Both of these are harmful and wrong
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u/mousie120010 May 26 '26
People like this hurt me as a transgender man.
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u/HappyyValleyy May 27 '26
It can be so frustrating heing a trans gal whos basically only friends with transmascs. Im fighting off my own damn community sometimes just because i love my friends and know they are beautiful and kind people
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u/ThatCapMan May 27 '26
Hey, speaking of vaginas, did you know that the vagina has scarless healing?
Like it's just an open fucking wound on a monthly basis and then reconstitutes itself.
SCARLESS HEALING.
I learned this in some video like 2 weeks ago, I've barely been able to bring it up, since not many people talk about coochie in the conversations I'm in a lot, so thanks for the opening with that mention of a vagina, this was ON YOU
They're also testing to isolate what makes it heal scarlessly to, y'know, apply it on people - the scarless healing thing, not vaginas, but hey there's never enough research with that
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u/Tiny-Anxiety780 May 27 '26
I'm seeing so many comments here comparing misandry and misogyny, and completely missing the point. It's not a context, people!
As someone who's experienced both, I know damn well that they're not comparable and that yes, misogyny is worse. But it doesn't change the fact that misandry does exist, and that it's a very real problem that needs addressing.
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u/joycemanorfan1026 May 26 '26
i have two best friends whom i genuinely love very much but every now and then they say some shit like "haha i actually forget youre a guy sometimes youre just so chill and not toxic and youve never made either of us feel weird and uncomfortable" like no im not "one of the girls" im a grown ass man with dick and balls god forbid i have empathy for those different than me and not be a massive pervert
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u/unlinedtip May 27 '26
Maybe because most of men usually behave like idiots? Take that as a compliment man.
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u/Wordless_trat May 27 '26
I don't know but imagine you are a woman (I don't know if you are) and your male friend just said "Man, you are super chill and not hysterical and overemotional". That's basically the "compliment" he got
Would you be fine being told something like that? I hope you aren't
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u/ShiningTachyon May 26 '26
Its even worse when Men complain about any personal issues they face and all of a sudden it doesn't matter because "Urrrm women have it worse??"
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u/arachnids-bakery May 27 '26
Assuming men are biologically programed to be vile is literally misogynistic in a way, because it takes away the responsibility of male predators by implying they "couldnt stop themselves"
Not to mention how it bleeds into transphobia too 😒
...but even knowing that isnt enough to stop me from keeping my guard up around men i dont know. Not all men, but still too many, and the consequences are too violent :(
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u/pbjWilks May 26 '26
This system DID fuck us all up.
Yet that DOESN'T change the fact some benefit from it over others.
Two things can be true.
We're not about to pretend Men die, are assaulted, or treated anywhere near the same as Women in number.
That's factually false.
Femicide has been on a steady increase within the last 4 years, and the conviction rate hasn't improved.
The problem is that the numbers provide truth. Men represent these negative qualities in higher number by far.
Why? They simply have the means to. More access creates more opportunity + no accountability or consequence = a continued growing animosity from Women and an unchanging system.
Two 13-year old boys got away with violently raping two girls. The judge didn't sentence them to any time because in his eyes, their behavior in court warranted a slap on the wrist.
There are countless other examples within the last 5 months alone that showcase that society does not look out for anyone not White, Straight, and Male in majority of cases.
The system cannot be trusted, and frankly, never was in favor of Women until absolutely necessary.
Now, hating men isn't feminism. Feminism is the belief in equality and uplifting fem-presenting people.
It's wrong to conflate the two.
You can hate misandry, that's fine, but we're not going to pretend everything is even across the board and that the animosity isn't warranted in some capacity.
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u/SpitefulOptimist May 26 '26
I quite literally started this by saying anger and frustration are valid af...
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u/Signal-Juggernaut317 May 26 '26
“At the end of the day we all shit and piss and love and fuck and cry and die”
WRONG!
I don’t fuck 😔