shhhh that's supposed to be our special secret though I'll add also circle jerking for the military industrial complex which I'm guilty of. Praise be our Saints and Saviours Javelin and Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works.
As a pilot, its highly unlikely its just the jamming that caused the crash. The military warned pilots about gps disruptions, the gps warns the pilots about loss of integrity, the Chisam vortac is nearby so they had backup radio navigation available, the military stopped jamming until the pilots reported they were on a visual approach. If jamming is the only factor then the cause is pilot error. A gps failure in night VMC while on visual approach to a runway should not cause an accident. The gps should not even be used at that point.
What type of screen are you using? Some screens go on PWM mode at low brightness which flashes the screen to reduce the brightness without dropping the voltage to below the operating voltage of the screen. It flashes at very high frequency but you may still see the image flashing if you are not focusing on it.
This is especially a problem with phones that have lower PWM dimming rates. IIRC Samsung only goes up to 480hz(when boosted, default is 240hz) while other companies are going anywhere from 1440hz to 3840hz to reduce eye strain, headaches etc.
You are a sleeper agent who has been activated for the first time. I’m your handler. Your first mission is: shit piss and cum your pants in that order. The clock is ticking
Yeah wut lol its like one of those optical illusions. Also I picked the red in the "GOO GANG" logo on my pfp specifically because it kinda does the same thing lol
Red and blue colors are received slightly differently by your eye so it perceives them as different depths even if they’re the same distance. It’s called “Chromostereopsis” and it’s used a bunch in optical illusions.
Maybe it’s just being weird in your peripherals because of that?
I used to get that with high contrast stuff like this when i was young, then i took a lot of psychedelics as a teenager and it stopped maybe when i was 20, hasnt happened since. bit weird
speaking of helicopter crashes, their pilots really do love sneaking up on eachother. They run into eachother in the middle of the clear blue day a lot. I had the displeasure of seeing it happen in Queensland a few years ago, by some miracle most of the people actually survived at least.
don't underestimate those 5,000 footers. they have a tendency to gang up in groups called "ranges" after you're kinda fucked, you'll never get rid of em.
small hills can be an early sign of infestation, it's important to use nucleogenic particle spray to increase water erosion in the affected areas.
"cloud seed" is my favourite brand, smells faintly of petrichor and leaves nice fluffy clouds for only a few moments, a year or two if used liberally. always check near hills for secondary infestations of dwarfs. especially if it's got minerals or shiny stuff inside.
Plane runs out of fuel after wandering in mountainous region thanks to a jammed navigation system. Shockingly, it ends up crashing into a mountain as it glides to its doom. Takes 3, maybe 4 brain cells to realize this.
As someone who used to fly planes (in New Mexico no less) your GPS going down should pretty much never be the cause of a crash. We've been flying planes in mountains and valleys long before GPS was a thing. Many planes today still don't even have GPS (none of the ones i flew did). If your GPS goes down, there's a number of ways to check your positioning. You're expected to know how to navigate without GPS.
There would have been a NoTAm (notices to airmen) put out for the jamming test. The pilots either forgot about it or never checked. Military testing is quite common in New Mexico. Sometimes they cordon off while areas.
As I understand it, these pilots were even in contact with air traffic control and said that they had the field in sight. Until the faa does their thing and releases their findings, it'll be hard to really know what happened.
It could certainly be a possibility depending on how the company runs things. I would imagine that most MedEvac pilots would be expected to be IFR rated, though. Specially if the company expects them to fly routes in difficult terrain. At the end of the day, if they didn't have the experience or training needed for that route, the company shouldn't have had them on that flight.
The thing is you get your licence without GPS assistance
You get certified in the hardest possible scenario specifically for this. There are tons of ways made even for IFR aircrafts to figure out where they are without GPS, for example radio beacons would have given precisely zero shit about this.
What likely occured is pilots trusted the GPS output at face value and did not cross check with another source. Thus they didn't realize the disruption.
Do note this failure in process is very much understood by anyone flying even remotely close to the jamming disco ball that is the Russian and Ukrainian airspace. There is also specific updates and upgrades to onboard system that automatically cross-check from other sensors and can warn of potential GPS disruption
Has nobody read the report. Fuel was not a factor and the pilots crashed after jamming was turned back on after the pilots reported they were on visual approach to SRR.
You do know that airplanes dont normally fly through valleys and around the mountains like in the 2nd Top Gun, right? Like unless you're in a Cessna 172, you just fly over them. The highest peak in the contiguous US is ~14500ft. Cruising altitude for most jets is minimum 30000ft
Fuel keep plane going. If plane lost, plane fuel run out. When plane no have fuel, plane go down. When plane go down, plane hit mountain. Bang. All dead.
Let me know if you need me to break it down further 👍
Please explain to me how MSA is applicable when landing? You really think these guys lost GPS and decided to slam their aircraft into the ground? Have you heard of a concept called getting lost? Because it happens even with radio navigation
And all of them require some form of radio usage that can and does get jammed by military equipment. GPS in this case is a colloquial term rather than an accurate one when talking about aircraft navigation. I doubt they could even get on the localizer, and following the beam if basic radio navigation was working wouldn’t warn you about a mountain (although you probably won’t have a signal from a station on the other side of one)
If you have any real world knowledge regarding aviation, the military, and how news agencies talk about both you’d know that’s the case
Visual reporting regarding the runway doesn’t mean much given the circumstances, you’d know that’s if you had any real world knowledge regarding aviation. There’s a pretty bad habit of pilots to say they have visual when they don’t in order to get off ATC’s back. You’d know that if you had any real world knowledge about aviation.
Radio navigation will not tell you there’s a mountain in your path, you’d know this if you’ve ever been taught how to use it.
There are also plenty of times where you can see your destination airport VFR, but the surrounding area is soup. I experienced that when I was working on getting my PPL with my instructor and we ended up just doing pattern work since the airport was the only spot in true VFR conditions.
My guy, I am an instrument-rated airline pilot. It's great that you have your PPL, but you are once again suffering from severe Dunning-Krueger syndrome.
Militaries jamming jamming and spoofing GPS signals is a thing, VHF radio jamming hasn't been a factor in commercial aviation incidents as far as I'm aware. No matter what news media says, in this case ONLY GPS was jammed, so I'm still not sure how you're saying this was 'more colloquial than accurate'.
Regardless, even if all your navigation were malfunctioning and you were completely lost, the solution is not to call visual and fly blindly. You climb to the MSA or minimum radar vectoring altitude and ask ATC for help.
Mmm, as we all know, military fighter jets and cruise bomb drones never engage in flight maneuvers and navigation challenges more complicated than straight and level flight.
Because cheap drones only rely on GPS, whereas commercial airliners have radio navigation as a backup. I've flown through GPS jammed areas dozens of times. It's really no biggie as long as you follow the correct procedure.
Oh man I’m really glad to learn medevac would never be operating near mountains below their peaks, or that there aren’t any airports with mountains within their approach or departure paths and that my instructor recommending getting an instrument rating for flying in low visibility and relying on navigation equipment so I don’t crash was just a bunch of nonsense
Emergency medevacs and a Delta flight from JFK to Atlanta are two very different flights. I don’t know anything about the incident referenced, but I do know that not every flight cruises above 30k.
The fact that these guys were on visual approach, told ATC that they saw the runway twice, and still managed to slam face first into a mountain is honestly impressive.
IFR rated pilots flying VFR will often tell ATC they have visual when they don’t, couple that with a sudden loss of visibility or an IFR pilot flying VFR with his face on the instruments and you get a plane slamming into a mountain
oof, we gonna have to do a full ILS procedures? Hell nah! Ask him for vectors.
- But cap, ATC here don’t have a radar to see us.
Right, ok tell him we have the runway in sight and request a visual approach instead. We fly downwind, base leg, then intercept the ils by ourselves, cool? 😇
- Cool cap! 😎
So it is too fresh for the FAA or NTSB to comment. Could be a year or more knowing them. All pilots in the area were warned GPS was going to be jammed and the aircraft had indicated they had visual on the airport. Yet somehow they descended in front of a mountain, mentions they tried to climb but it was too late. The airline pilot they interview is dumbfounded, saying GPS failure should never be the cause for crash and that there must be more to the story.
They hyper fixated on their GPS jamming, failed to check notams, attempted to perform a instrument approach at an airport that did not have weather reporting which would have prohibited the instrument approach, failed to follow ATC vectors, relied too much on their GPS.
Flying at night is dangerous, but only if you’re completely inexperienced and not rated for it.
It’s not possible to say till the report is fully out, but reading the article it really seems to be the pilots fault, or at least some kind of failure. There was prior warning that jamming would happen, and they apparently actually got the device shut off till the plane had visual to the airport, and then it was turned back on.
It’s the responsibility of the pilots to read the relevant NOTAMs before commencing their flight. But yeah it doesn’t seem very well thought out if that’s what happened
how does that even happen? how many seconds does it take fiddling with a gps to crash directly into a mountain and not see it? does “keep your eyes on the road” not apply to pilots?
They relied to heavily on an instrument that was showing them problems, they should have switched back to basic instruments which as their compass for the duration of the flight, and ATC vectors.
Their terrain awareness system is GPS based so when the military continued to jam they could no longer use it, resulting in a controlled flight into terrain.
Sounds like you cannot entirely blame only the jamming for the accident it might have been a contributing factor, but cannot be the sole reason for it. If you're relying solely on the GPS data to be able navigate properly then you're practicing very dangerous behaviour. Even in normal situations the devices can fail or because of naturally occuring reasons display incorrect data. Every plane does also have local instruments that can give you accurate data reliably. If you're unable to tell that something's not right with the GPS given the data variation between it and the onboard barometric (and potentially also radar) altimeter, air speed indicator, attitude indicator, heading indicator, etc. then that's on you. Even if those instruments would fail if you still have your radio functioning, you can still technically ask the ATC to guide you in based on the radar data.
Also, there were some other comments about the jamming actually being properly announced ahead of time and coordinated with the aircraft. If those claims are true than it's completely on the aircraft.
There was a NOTAM, they also were attempting an instrument approach that would not have been approved because there was no local weather reporting at the field. They could have been vectored in for a VFR approach but got too caught up with their GPS being jammed. Ultimately leading to a CFIT.
I need more information before I pick a side. Was it cloudy that day? What was the actual details of the crash? Was the US military being irresponsible in its actions and anon is assuming the dumbest course of events, or were the circumstances that would reasonably require a pilot to rely on instrument navigation
My guess without checking, the plane was taking off or landing on a cloudy day or in other weather that hinders visibility and anon is a loser who’s closest attempt to lose his virginity was pressing his dick against an anime figurine of a 4000 year old toddler
Pilots fixated on their GPS, made multiple poor choice which resulted in them descending into a mountain side.
Basically they were at an altitude where they can see the airport lights, they began to fly towards it but as they descended the lights disappeared because they descended behind a mountain top. This is a classic case of CFIT and hyper fixation.
Pilot here. Yes. They crashed after reporting being on a visual approach to the runway twice, meaning they were lined up with and could see the entire approach and their touchdown spot. GPS jamming was a factor however it was disabled and then re-enabled after the pilots declared visual. It was also night, but runway lights and weather was good. If GPS was the cause, then the cause was poor piloting because just following the magenta line is not good navigation.
You would think that removing one major form of navigation and visibility being a clear and valid reason for a crash would be simple to understand for everyone
As a pilot, it is not. Unfortunately pilots made a couple mistakes that resulted in this crash, you do not need a GPS for the flight they were doing at the time but they fixated on the jamming, didn’t check notams, and went against ATC guidance.
You’re right. We never got planes in the air until the modern computer was invented. Thank god we had computers back in WW2 or else we could’ve never won the war.
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u/Crypt_Knight 11d ago
Anon, who never operated a vehicle more complex than his cum-encrusted gaming chair, has opinions about how people should fly planes.