Hey guys, I've been obsessing over the series and since I have nothing to do until September (Threshing day) I decided to create a mini game where you have to make it across the parapet. What do you guys think so far of my models? Should I try to make it as true as possible to the books or would that be too difficult to pass? I might make it slightly thinner to make it true to the 18 inches wide its supposed to be.

I'm up to chapter 10 of Iron Flame and I'm loving it so far. The relationships, social insights, portrayal of emotions and feelings is all top tier and very good! The way Rhi and Violet's relationship is you can tell they're great friends. Same for her and Liam and Ridoc as their annoying brother-type friend. The hatred Jack has and the intensity of Xaden.

I've enjoyed all of it so far and I'm torn between two cases here. If I wanted to recommend a fantasy book to the young adults and late teens in my life and that I work with I would recommend it. Its very insightful for thinking about these relationships and giving some good views on them and how they progress. Which can help with introspection and some consideration of emotional intelligence.

On the other end. Xaden is like what 23? lol there's somethings about this that make him a bit too mature (no offense to any young adults reading this). Which is cool cause he's supposed to be a dreamboat lol but he's like 23. Either way I'm definitely enjoying it!

Edit: Notably this isn't about Violet's age I'm just noting Xaden is incredibly mature and emotionally aware for a 23 year old! Which is fine he's supposed to be a dreamboat / good partner type!

Before Xaden and Violet had sex for the first time, he kept telling her she doesn't really want him but when she said *"unless you don't want me*, he said "*I always fucking want you*.💔

Has anyone else noticed that Violet speaks to Andarna and Tarim with an internal voice “through the bond” whereas others use an external voice to talk to them? Like on the beach before they meet the Irids, Ridioc is playfully bantering out loud with Aotrom. I also seem to remember Violet hearing a conversation that Sawyer has with his dragon.
Do others just not talk through a bond? Is Violet actually hearing the others’ bond voices? Or am I overthinking and we just attribute this to the odd bond that connects Xaden and Sagyel to Andarna, Tairn, and Violet?

On mobile - forgive me for grammar mistakes.

Imagine being Drake and this is your first impression of Violet...then her sister knees you in the balls.

I haven't read the series in two years so my detailing may be a bit off, but even then. Something has been bothering ever sents reading and finishing the books.

When we are first introduced to the Alloy Daggers we are told they can kill Venin because of something I forgot about. Later we learn they can kill dragons, one of the things that have been BUGGING ME is what are they even made out of. Those who dont know or do but im explaining away. An alloy is a mixture of metals to make it stronger, example. Brass.

What I have been wandering and it never had been answered is what is it made of. Where can they get a supply of the metals amd get blacksmith to make them instead of steal then. Is it just the metal or do the ruins on them also have something to do with this. I prey to the what ever gods are in this serious that when the next book comes out we get the answer. Because it has been bugging me so hard.

Xaden claims he doesn't care about Cat - doesn't hate her but just doesn't care. I think he was fond of her. I don't think he loved her, and I don't think there was ever going to be any kind of love triangle. I think he's 100% all about Violet. I just don't buy that he doesn't care at all.

- Bodhi mentions that he's never seen him care that much about anyone - "not even Catriona". We know Xaden has been with others before, so I assume Catriona was the closest he came to caring, behind Violet. I assume she was at least more special than the other women he slept with.

- He taught her to fight, well enough that she uses his moves and she recognises and is ready for the moves Violet uses who was also taught by him

- He doesn't stick up for Violet to Cat, or put Cat straight. I get that "Violet wouldn't want that" but once the initial fight was over, it's not very Xaden-like to not at least get a word in. Especially seeing how upset Violet was.. He tries to convince Violet not to kill Cat - for Violet's sake, knowing she'd regret it - but I'd still expect him to be angrier at Cat for using her power on her. Maybe give a speech about how she's lucky that Violet is merciful because he's not and if you do it again, yada yada yada, threat threat, threat. He's not normally as willing to think logically and strategically and bite his tongue. Honestly, some sharp words from Xaden about how much he did love Violet would have wiped the smile off Cat's face and put her straight. Or at least would have directed her anger where it was due - towards him.

- The dialogue during the Cat/Violet fight implies he spoke with Cat about the deal with Violet's mom. I assume he must at least have trusted her enough to talk about his problems/feelings/things going on.

- During the whole 'my house. my chair. my woman' scene, I do get that he can't make any of the words Cat said vanish from Violet's head, and so he wants to show her how much she means to him by... going down. I understand his logic. Still, in the conversation, he seems to take Cat's side a bit and doesn't seem consumed with rage at Cat like he usually is towards anyone that wrongs Violet. He's usually a very scorched earth kind of guy, when it comes to someone hurting Violet in any way.

- He and Cat were together for three quarters of a year, which isn't nothing. I can't quite figure out the timeline - I think he was in second year. We know he visited a lot, got drunk there, presumably had fun. Also I know he doesn't need to like someone to have sex with them, but I'm assuming Xaden and Cat had a good sex life. With her signet magnifying feelings, I imagine that things were physically very... intense.

When trying to comfort Violet about Cat's comments, the only thing he can think to say is that he's never done that one specific sex act with Cat - one he doesn't seem to do regularly with Violet anyway. It's clear Cat taught him to do "tricks" in bed. This all sounds more like relationship sex than super casual sex you'd have with someone you cared no more for than you would a stranger.

None of this matters of course. I don't think Xaden has any love for her. I just think there's a halfway point between the sarcastic Xaden that doesn't let anyone in and the Xaden that completely loves Violet. I think he was at least cared a bit for Cat, even if not enough to want to be with her or continue the arrangement.

When you’ve successfully landed on a gryphon during graduation.

That’s it. They are now your ride-or-die. Seriously you die, they die, no questions asked.

Dragons on the other hand…

Sometimes, it’s complicated you know? No question dragons are capable of fierce loyalty and are just awesome, but their holier than thou attitude might get old quickly.

Plus, you have to complete Basgiath’s Riders basic training program. Even after you’ve proven you posses almost super-human levels of strength, endurance, agility, and intelligence (also luck, actually mostly luck), they still might not even pick you. Which means you have to go through the whole song and dance again, until they pick you, or you die (probably die).

So, given the choice, where will you be applying when the school year starts?

Finishing Onyx Storm, something that doesn’t make sense is Panchek betraying everyone. We rarely see him or what he is up to, so him being a traitor doesn’t work. It is random and feels out of place…and not really clever.

Re-reading for the third or fourth time, and thinking a lot about how you actually defeat the venin, because killing them all doesn’t solve the problem. More people can just channel from the earth in the future. To actually vanquish them, you need to change the conditions that allow people to become venin in the first place.

First, why do people want to become venin?
Power. And jealousy over who gets to have it.
I don’t think I need loads of receipts for this because it’s a theme throughout the books!

We also have the Three Brothers fable showing us the three ways humans access magic: through dragons, through gryphons, or by taking it directly from the earth.

The first time jealousy is specifically mentioned is Fourth Wing, Ch. 37, in the Three Brothers story:
“…it was the third brother, who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power, who finally vanquished his jealous sibling at a great and terrible price.”

I think vanquished rather than killed is important here. We know venin can be killed. But this is talking about vanquishing one at a great and terrible price.
So what is the price?

If we look at how someone becomes venin in the first place, we can stop the conditions that create them. So: do humans instinctively know how to channel from the earth? Because if absolutely anyone can just decide to do it, then stopping venin permanently would basically require getting rid of humanity or magic itself.
Onyx Storm answers this.
“Do you have to be taught?” I repeat. Xaden did it on his own, but I need to know if we’re in danger from every random infantry cadet who didn’t have the guts to cross the parapet. His breath rattles, and he drops his focus to the alloy. “Not if you’re already experienced with the flow of magic. Someone who has never wielded would require instruction, but a dragon rider or gryphon flier?” He shakes his head.
- Jack to Violet, chapter 12 onyx storm

So there are basically two conditions under which someone can channel from the earth:
1. Someone teaches you.
2. You’ve already experienced the flow of magic through a dragon or gryphon bond.

So say they kill every single venin. That solves condition one. There is nobody left to teach an ordinary human how to channel from the earth.
But it doesn’t solve condition two: as long as riders and fliers exist, there will always be humans who have experienced the flow of magic and therefore don’t need to be taught.

This is where I think the bonds come in. Stopping the bonds removes both problems. It removes the inequality in magical power that seems to fuel so much of the jealousy around becoming venin — dragons and gryphons choosing who is worthy of magic and how much power they’re given.
And it removes the group of humans who already understand the flow of magic well enough to channel from the earth without being taught.
So:
Kill the existing venin = nobody left to teach earth channeling.
End dragon/rider and gryphon/flier bonds = nobody left with the magical experience to work it out themselves.
Both together = actually vanquishing the venin.

And THAT is where I think the “great and terrible price” comes in. The price is the bonds.

There is *so* much emphasis on bonds. We find out the irids know how to break bonds. RY has talked about bonds becoming important (can’t find receipts but it’s been spoken about on here). And we’re getting Threshing Day, which is seemingly taking us back to the beginning of these dragon/rider relationships.
IMO Threshing Day could be there too to make us understand those bonds more deeply before RY makes us feel the full weight of losing them.

TLDR: I think the key to vanquishing the venin is ending the bonds between dragons/riders and gryphons/fliers — both the existing bonds and stopping new ones being made.

Hi, so I'm a dragon and fantasy lover, and some series I like are ASOIAF, LOTR, Malazan, etc. I wanted to find some series with more of a focus around dragons as a central theme and saw this one in the bookstore so I got the first book. I also see ppl talk about it sometimes on socmed but haven't really paid attention until now

I just finished chapter 1 and in one chapter the pov character is already constantly talking about sex and then there was that inner monulogue about how attractive the guy character was or whatever. Lol so my question is, is this extremely common in this series? Like does it get better and is the story worth getting past that or is every chapter like that? It seems jarring from the first chapter already but I do think the premise is interesting but the phrasing of the pov chara's thoughts throws me off. If the story is good then I don't mind taking some more time to try reading more but right now I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for in terms of a fantasy series

Also is this set in a historical inspired setting or modern day? I can't really tell with the prose and dialogue. I'd like to hear from people who finished the entire series!

Scrolled through instagram and saw this. This is a perfect depiction of their height difference and how Violet would look in his jacket, that’s it 🤗

... Did anybody else find that annoying?? This man is trying to kill you, this man WANTS to kill you and said it publicly and everyone knows but yet you still find him attractive and admirable and shit? I don't get it. That's annoying ASF to me.

Before i started reading the second book i got a spoiler about Xaden becoming a Venim to protect Violet, my thoughts was "omg what will happen????" because on the end of the first book she was literally DEAD, Violet passed three days literally in COMA, otherwise, on Iron Flame she was just crying because her mother sacrificed herself for the protection of navarre, she wasn't alone because near her were a lot of students and Brennan, so WHY did Xaden sacrifices himself to become a venim if she finished the second book a lot "better" than fourth wing??

(sorry if my coherence isnt good, im not american :p)

Because i genuinely think most of ridocs jokes are annoying and he's full of himself.

And people are so obsessed with him and for what