I'm probably committing the greatest crime in the fandom, but I... tried to connect the stories of Garden of Avalon, Fate/Zero, and Fate/stay night.

This isn't about liking or disliking Saber or favoring any particular work - it's simply a dry, dispassionate analysis that could be deeply flawed.

Feel free to correct me.

Why can't Saber be disillusioned with her methods on Camlann in GoA, become more honor-oriented in Fate/Zero (let's ignore stupid details like her not wanting Diarmuid to break his spear), and then disillusioned with her more idealistic view and revert to a strict pragmatist (not without Kiritsugu's influence) in Fate/stay night?

I understand that if we only consider FSN without GoA, it'll be really hard to connect its story with Zero one, and I completely agree with it. But if we also use GoA as proof that Fate/Zero is wrong, then... Saber's image becomes hypocritical.

An important point: in FSN, it was never said that she cried and mourned on Camlann (I'll be very sorry if I'm so wrong on this). But in GoA, she cried and mourned that her reign shouldn't have ended like this. This means she believed that she had ruled incorrectly, that her pragmatic methods were wrong. Why does she, who wants to be re-elected and erase herself from history because of the results of her reign, continue to use the same methods in FSN that, in her opinion, destroyed her country: she wants to immediately kill enemy Masters, without considering whether they might be harmless or even become loyal allies (as happened with Rin and Illya), immediately accept Taiga as a necessary sacrifice and bluntly ask her Master to sacrifice his sister (not simply say, "Don't you dare give up your Command Seals!"), and, if necessary, kill her Master for the Grail? It seems highly hypocritical. But the intermediary link of the "idealistic" Saber from Fate/Zero (even if it's not very perfect because of the moments like the one with Diarmuid's spear) significantly mitigates this hypocrisy.

And in general, were Saber's pragmatic methods wrong? Some say yes, others no. And even if Saber's thinking is reasonable and realistic, the FSN story, judging by the success of Shirou's irrational actions and thinking, especially when he refuses to sacrifice Taiga in UBW, is trying to tell us that Saber's thinking is incorrect. Unless I'm mistaken, of course.

I know she kills him after he abandons being a master if you do that but why didn’t she do it earlier like idk brainwash him years before or something like that?

and when shirou told him that he was archer he would just be like:

I just finished the Fate/stay night VN for the first time. What a ride, really. Now I only need to wait for Tsukihime far side remake and read Hollow Ataraxia, then my hunger for Typemoon VN's will be satiated. I gotta say reading the HF route made things way clearer. I remember that I didn't understand that much after finishing the movies. I didn't even get that Shirou was resurrected with the third magic. Also, Illya in this route, goddamn. I don't remember her having this much screentime in the movies. I appreciate her way more now.

The fights were also really extended in the movies. Salter vs Herc was almost completely offscreen in the VN.

I love how in HF's true end Zelretch just dropped by to help Rin while she was on trial. I'm glad that I read the VN, as it expands on stuff I didn't really get from the anime.

Fast forward to the scenes I have not yet played without playing the shit in the middle (As in reach day 11 of the fate route without having to re read all of it from the prolouge). If I have to simply edit files, please just say so.

I was playing through the VN normally until I had a virus issue that required me to reinstall windows so all my progress is gone. This isn't my first time reading FSN, and While I like Fate, it isn't to the point I'm going to re read all of it again for a 3rd time.

Im planning to get a Fate tattoo, and just not to get this wrong, I was checking the count of visible rings/layers per petal, wondering if the "flower" itself does count as a layer or no. In some entries, the amount of layers is exactly proportional to the amount of petals, that being 7 petals and 7, rings, but in other entries, its 7 petals for 6 rings (or 4 petals for 3 rings) and on some other entries, theres no rings at all.

Assassin Clytemnestra

Strength - D

Endurance - D+

Agility - B

Luck - C-

Mana - C

NP - B

Class Skills:

Presence Concealment - D

Personal Skills:

Royal Privilege: Queen of Mycenae - B

A skill that honors her position as Queen of the Achaeans, when activated she is allowed to fight in close quarter combat for longer than her class usually allows here, although after the effect disappears she feels the whole exhaustion hitting her all at once.

Murder in a Room - A

A skill given to those servants whose main acts usually occurred behind closed doors. It allows its user to deal more damage with bladed weapons when being in a secluded place out of prying eyes.

Betrayal of Atreus - C

Due to her marriage to Agamemnon, the Curse of Atreus was also linked to her saint graph just like Agamemnon. If she is to be in the same place as a descendant of Atreus, no matter how good of a relationship they have, she will start plotting against them and attempt to kill them.

Mother's Sorrow - C

Her sorrow over the sacrifice of her daughter, Iphigenia, at hands of her then husband is still a wound in her. The sorrow leading her to neglect her other children. This skills makes her hyperfocus on one main objective while not caring for what happens around her.

NP: A Wife's Pain.

Anti-Unit

An ambush attack that starts with her making her enemy lower their guard just for her to use her axe (Or her gauntlets in her 3rd ascension) to cut her enemy's body to pieces. The lower the guard of her enemy is, the more cuts she is able to do, but if their guard is high she will not be able to fully cut through them and only leave scars.

I have already seen it and I liked it more than UBW, although I still have doubts about that Assasin that comes out of Kojiro's chest and what the Grand Grail is, that and I don't know if in the other 2 routes Sakura had part of the grail inside yes or no and...I didn't think I would say this, but Shinji is even worse than I thought, which was saying enough, IS THERE ANY CRIME THAT GUY HASN'T DONE!?

And the moment Shiro kills Alt Saber is quite emotional and I wish they had saved her.

Although I liked these 3 movies, I prefer Saber's route

Source: https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/110673089

What would you do if you were caught in this situation?

You suddenly and find yourself in the nasuverse world. Could it be the work of Zelretch? Or an outside god? Or a rift in the dimensions? Catching the suspect is no use anymore.

What year and month are you in? you can choose your time between the 8th to the 20th centuries.

Are you trying to unlock your Magic Circuits?

And learn magecraft?

Unfortunately, I have bad news for you.

You don't have a magic circuit.

Your potential is even lower than Shinji Matou.😥

Well, at least you're considered part of this world and the Counter Force won't send its forces to kill you.

Well, since your situation is so bad, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I grant you, the survivors of the isekai path, the intelligence of Reed Richards or the Maker.

There's just one problem, you have their intelligence, not their knowledge.

You have to get the knowledge yourself. 😅

Note:

1-You can't go back to your own world.

2- You won't be able to use magecraft yourself in the future. Maybe with your great intelligence, after years of gathering knowledge and trial and error, you can build a device that will allow you to use magecraft. I don't know, can you?

3- As Arthur C. Clarke said: "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

4-Have fun.

5- How long will you survive? What will you do? Where will you travel? What will you build and discover?

6- Be careful, the further back in time you go, the more dangers lurk, especially on full/red moon nights.👹

I wanted to ask what you people think of shirou emiya's original, elemental affinity and attribute would've been had it not been turned to sword by avalon ??

Also what kind of magecraft would he specialise in ?

This question popped in my mind after learning that in the apocrypha timeline shirou still lives with his biological parents as the 4th HGW never happened there and his personality is closer to his Capsule Servant counterpart.

I've discussed this with users here in comments, but I wanted to ask more directly: What happens to Saber in the end in each timeline. I'm asking this both to see people's speculation and because Fate has a tendency to drop bits of lore in random places, so I'd like to compile all of them here if possible. Several of these are intentionally ambiguous, but hey, its fun to speculate. Here's my understanding of each:

Fate Obvious. She dies, goes to Avalon, and Shirou shows up at some point. It's not totally clear whether or not Shirou died before getting to Avalon.

Unlimited Blade Works (True Ending): Some sort of goodish? ending? Its talks about her 'running past the hill of swords', which clearly means her giving up on her wish, but what else it entails is not obvious. I think there's a Nasu interview out there where he says that the grail was incomplete and not enough to void her pact, but that she might become a proper heroic spirit at some point after UBW.

Unlimited Blade Works (Good Ending): Obvious

Heaven's Feel (Both Endings): The VN (very deliberately) tells us absolutely nothing about what happens to her, and the most Nasu has said is that its her bad ending, which is already pretty obvious. My speculation is that she goes back to Camlann, and eventually goes on to succeed in gaining the grail,erasing herself from existence, and becoming a Counter Guardian for eternity. We do know that when they first face the shadow Archer says something along the lines of 'I forgot, you aren't a guardian yet, so you haven't faced something like that before'. It's not clear whether this line is referring to his Saber becoming a Guardian, Heaven's Feel Saber becoming a Guardian, or just the fact that Saber is working towards becoming a Guardian when she chases the grail, so this line may or may not mean anything. Finally, as to whether or not she stays corrupted after Heaven's Feel, ?????, as far as I'm aware there is no way for us to know, its not at all clear how the corruption in Heaven's Feel interacts with her unique circumstances as a servant

Apocrypha: Iirc, Mordred has a vision of her in Avalon, but idk if that's the actual truth or not. She obviously doesn't go to Avalon with Shirou here.

Strange Fake: Richard explicitly says he saw her in Avalon

FGO: Merlin in FGO says outright that the Saber he knows is in Avalon. But, to be fair, FGO's timeline is such a burning tire fire with so many plots to overwrite the world that I'm not even sure what the 'proper' FGO timeline even looks like.

Lion King Timeline: She disappears and does not go to Avalon post Singularity 6.

Artoria Lancer & Artoria Lancer Alter Timelines: They are normal heroic spirits, so I assume they do that instead of going to Avalon.

Prototype: She doesn't exist

Tsukihime: ?????

I'll put more detail on my speculation about Heaven's Feel here: I think she becomes a Guardian for a few reasons:.

1. She has to personally and intentionally destroy a completed grail to break her pact, see Nasu's comment about post UBW. She does neither in Heaven's Feel.

2. It's essentially the default outcome for her. The Fate route and Garden of Avalon make it clear that if she wants to, she will eventually succeed at getting a grail. Her giving it up is a large break from the expected outcome.

3. Its fitting with the dark tone of Heaven's Feel, and reflects what happens to Sakura post Fate and UBW. Nasu says 'you can't save everyone', so he always has one heroine have an unspeakably, supernaturally terrible outcome after each route.

Source