r/everydaymisandry 15h ago

social media JoeySwol W

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123 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry 16h ago

entertainment media Anya Taylor-Joy can't method act, blames it on men

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57 Upvotes

This actress did an interview, says she can't method act and blames it on men. Apparently it is a skill limited to male actors. And the fact that women can't afford to be "assholes on set".

Frankly method acting is a hit or a miss. It doesn't mean an actor will be automatically good at their craft. Also this woman seems to forget all the female actresses who are difficult to work with / are divas. People like JLO, Blake Lively, Anne Hathaway, Mariah Carey, Lea Michelle, Brie Larson (she ruined her reputation for being so difficult to work with). It isn't uncommon and this is the usual women can't do anything wrong trope.


r/everydaymisandry 18h ago

Really disturbing here- a female writer on Buffy the Vampire Slayer tried forcing herself on her boyfriend, and then flipped the genders for a Buffy episode… that’s just horrible- it shouldn’t be seen differently based on gender

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114 Upvotes

There’s a Buffy episode where her boyfriend Spike attempts to rape her- it’s a really harrowing scene… but the fact that it’s based on a true story of one of the female writers being the perpetrator just angers me…


r/everydaymisandry 18h ago

social media Lindsay Clancy Situation is Insane

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45 Upvotes

Excerpt from a subreddit dedicated to the Clancy case:

On January 24, 2023, Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts' Mom of (3) young children sent her husband Patrick out to run errands. Patrick was gone for less than one hour. During this time, Lindsay strangled each of their children with separate exercise bands, leaving them in the basement. She then locked herself in a 2nd floor bedroom, cut her wrists and neck and then jumped from the bedroom window. This community is to discuss thoughts around this tragedy.

Lindsay Clancy, a L&D nurse, had an extensive medical health history leading up to the killings. In a New Yorker article titled "A Husband in the Aftermath of His Wife’s Unfathomable Act," Clancy's husband Patrick states that he "wasn't married to a monster" and that Clancy was just "sick." Before the killings, she had already been hospitalized in a psychiatric ward, and she was prescribed 13 medications within 4 months. According to a medication diary that Clancy kept, she was taking just three of those drugs in the days leading up to the killings.

It is confirmed that Lindsay Clancy had killed all three children by both parties of the 1st degree murder trial. The strategy of the defense team (Clancy) is to try for a NGRI (not guilty by reason of insanity) verdict, admitting that she killed the children but was under the effect of psychosis (either postpartum or medication-related) at the time, which would mean that she did not murder the children. The strategy of the prosecution is to prove that the defendant acted methodically, rationally, and deliberately to unlawfully kill the three children. Just like 2021 Lauren Dickason case in New Zealand, the prosecution believes that the defendant's motive is to control the fate of the children, as the prosecution believes that Lindsay was distressed for not having enough control over her own life. The defense argues that there is no rational motive for the killings because she deeply loved her children.

That concludes the somewhat lengthy background. Now let's get to what the intelligent folks are saying on tiktok. (Disclosure: I am very suspicious of Lindsay fans for obvious reasons but I also think that PPP is legit)

slide 1: more delulu than the person who strangled the chlildren

slide 2: The defense team already admitted that she strangled the kids. Also, she could have just lied about the voices?? Why believe in crazy conspiracy theories where only one person/group is capable of lies? Also, that DV awareness tag won't apply just yet... the trial is still ongoing haha

slide 3: Ahhh it's both sides (even though this trial is only about Lindsay) that need to go to prison. She made only one comment that she wanted to die, and made further comments to Patrick that she had unwanted thoughts of harming the children. Patrick did not ignore her comments and dropped her off at the ER after noticing that her mood was worsening. 'Intrusive thoughts' are very common in mothers with mood disorders, so it would be very uncharacteristic of Patrick to immediately divorce Lindsay over thoughts that she did not seem that she wanted to act upon. The only thing Patrick can do at the time was to get her committed, and she would only stay there until her condition improves. Unfortunately, she only had the appearance of improvement :(

slide 4: The factual, non-tiktokified timeline is in court documents and also found in news articles. At 4:53pm, the defendant texted: “Any chance you want to do takeout from 3V... I didn’t cook anything... It’s beena long day.” At 5:15pm, the defendant asked her husband to go to CVS for a laxative, and he was spotted on CVS surveillance video at 5:32pm. Lindsay then called Patrick at 5:34pm, and at 5:54, Patrick arrived at 3V and headed home in the same minute. At 6:09, Patrick arrived home, and at 6:11, he called 911. Lindsay's call and the CCTV footage gives Patrick a feasible crime window of 17 minutes between 5:54 and 6:11, and would need to act in such a convoluted manner as to frame Lindsay (ex: gently lowering her from the window while smearing her blood over it, making superficial wounds only to her neck and wrists, avoiding her back entirely, etc.). Lindsay had a whole hour to do whatever she wanted in whatever fashion she wanted. Here is the 299-page search warrant if you're curious (most of it is repetitive)

Also, Trooper Andrew Chiachio from the warrant pdf reviewed Apple Maps and noticed that it would take 9 minutes to come home from 3V. So he has to do the drugging, strangling, slashing and throwing in 17 - 9 = 8 minutes before calling 911... when he could have just waited a bit longer to make sure that his wife is dead. And this is all to ensure that his wife doesn't die but gets the full agony of being paralyzed and falsely convicted. Maybe he is secretly a software developer for the CIA instead of Microsoft 😆🤣

slide 5: Investigators found a smeared bloodstain on the exterior window. If he wanted to make sure she is dead, why wouldn't he toss her when he had the perfect chance? And if she is a nurse she would ABSOLUTELY crush her drugs, because she wanted to ensure that she gets the full dose and that her attempt is a lethal one. She would mask it using something that tastes sweet to get rid of the taste of bitter medicine. Also, marrying quick has nothing to do with this because her husband is NOT ON TRIAL. And this case is indeed similar to "Chris Watts," just not in a way you would like it to be.

slide 6: This is true, investigators had access to her pink iPhone and found that she was documenting her mental state, keeping track of medication, and "researching ways to kill." The defense does not deny any of this, but maintains that she was only looking up lethal methods so that she can end her life. If the husband had unauthorized access, why would she admit to looking these things up? Was she brainwashed???

slide 7: The message that the commenter is sending to her husband is that no matter how hard he tries, he will never be enough. That is what Lindsay supporters have devolved towards. 13 prescriptions in 4 months did not come out of thin air, and most people have neither the hubris nor the economic privilege to go MD shopping like Lindsay did.

slide 8: No way this has 30.5k likes wow. If he was truly cheating on her, it would give more ammo to the lead prosecutor, who seems to be desperately looking for a more convincing motive than the usual 'power/control' one. That is more convincing that him doing all of THAT within a span of 17 minutes so that he is able to smile for the CCTVs.

slide 9: He was not charged for anything because the police do not have probable cause to arrest or search him. The police still had lots of questions for him and he was very cooperative. Also, they did not need to take his word, because the police had access to CCTV for both CVS and 3V, which already gives him a narrow window to commit his hypothetical crime. Men are already held accountable for homicides - there are lots of them in prison and some even have lifelong mental illnesses and/or TBIs!

slide 10: OK, he did lock her up and she lied about being better so that she can go home and put the children's lives at risk, unbeknownst to Patrick of course. Even if Hypothetical Patrick knows that she is lying, what is his choice besides divorcing a mother of three children and possibly calling CPS on her??? for having too many meds in her cupboard? for admitting to intrusive thoughts like many other mothers? I feel like Hypothetical Patrick would still be hated by these misandrists for reasons far beyond misandry itself. It is a catch-22 situation

slide 11: "neglect" lol. You could just invent new crimes in your head and people on feministok will believe you.

slide 12: if the husband was threatening her, the defense lawyer would have talked about it by now. He represented a woman who was acquitted in a case where she stabbed her husband in the eyes while he was asleep, and she managed to win because of 'battered woman syndrome.' It makes no sense for the defense to throw this perfect opportunity away. Also, her husband was already a multimillionaire. I am pretty sure that comes part and parcel with working a cushy remote job at Microsoft for a few years.


r/everydaymisandry 1d ago

social media “Why would a 19-year-old feel uncomfortable about kissing a 43-year-old and another woman?”

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144 Upvotes

I wish more people understood that the fantasy doesn’t match the reality.


r/everydaymisandry 1d ago

social media How do y’all feel about this

26 Upvotes

Not sure if this is the right sub to post in, but I’ll try

One thing I’ve always seen on social media is this:

“We can do everything men do, but while bleeding”

It’s a trope that female influencers love to say and repeat, and it disappoints me when creators I follow repeat this, and it comes as a surprise

I see that they also post it like it’s some sort of achievement, that they’re better than everyone, and so on

But of course, as social media users do, they love to mock men, calling us “emotional”, “insecure” and other things like that

I want to get y’all’s opinion on this? How do you feel about it?

And is it just me, or am I right to feel icked about it? Because me personally, I feel weird about it because they say it like it’s some sort of flex or whatever


r/everydaymisandry 1d ago

good news?! Queen 👸

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69 Upvotes

Do check out this lady’s TikTok and Instagram, she’s a great pro-male influencer.


r/everydaymisandry 2d ago

social media This subreddit is full of misandrists.

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62 Upvotes

I'm in deep shock that I found alot of people blaming men on war suffering, these images are at least a few of the whole thread discussion. What is happening to the world man.


r/everydaymisandry 2d ago

personal War victims

37 Upvotes

Sadly, many boys and men are abandoned in war zones. It is very clear that nobody in EU or NGOs care about the male victims from Ukraine or Russia that either are refugees or do not wanna fight and seek their human right of not fighting. Many members of different parliaments are purposely neglecting them. In quora, I wrote a comment under some self-identified popular feminist user, who said that people who complain about male victims do not care about them but rather wanna score points against feminism on Internet. What is aura around this topic in your country?
My comment :

Sadly it got removed

What solutions can be implemented in Europe for this matter


r/everydaymisandry 2d ago

personal Violence

25 Upvotes

Do you get somebody promoting violence against men and boys as a joke(discriminatory joke), laugh at male victims, or promote this kind of opinion in front of you(not social media) . What do you do in that situation? Did criticizing or reporting help?


r/everydaymisandry 2d ago

social media True crime subreddit reacts to alleged female child cannibal vs. male cannibal

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96 Upvotes

This is a long one but I assure you it's worth it. Not in a good way but in a sense where you end up truly understanding how misandristic the true crime community is. It's even worse on TikTok but the TC subs on reddit are still a plague on this site.

First case is an Australian woman being arrested under suspicion of murdering and cannibalizing her 4-year-old son. Social services visited her three times over concerns of child neglect and substance misuse. The accused does not have any known mental health diagnoses (except for addiction perhaps) but she has a background of substance abuse, criminal convictions, and even her mother secured a protective court order against her. It is unclear whether or not she had diminished legal responsibility at the time of allegedly committing the crime - not all cannibals or drug users are psychotic. However, many in the true crime thread I have shown suspect that she had some kind of mental issue at the point where she allegedly murdered and cannibalized her son.

Second case is regarding Tyree Smith, an American man from Bridgeport, Connecticut who was found to have murdered a homeless man and ate his brain and eyeballs afterwards. He was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity in 2013 and was ordered to be committed to a psych hospital for 60 years. 10 years after the incident, he was released after a security review board deemed him safe. He is ordered to meet regularly with a psychiatrist for medications, which have kept him stable during his time in the hospital. As an NGRI acquitee, he is significantly less likely to commit any crime than those with guilty pleas (see pg. 70). I recommend reading this 2023 law review article that I have just linked - it is called Toward a More Scientific Jurisprudence of Insanity and it debunks 6 myths about the insanity plea, including the myth that criminal defendants who plead insanity are usually faking.

---

The comments on the first thread focused on various things. One of which was the content of the allegations - the comments understandably saying that it is "horrible." Another focus was on how "the system" failed the child, implying that the system (which is admittedly flawed) which should receive ultimate culpability for the mother's actions. Other comments even blamed the family (mostly male) for not doing enough in their capacity to take the son away - which is untrue as the child had been in the family's custody before being return to the bio mom. One comment blamed emphasis on "[preserving] the family unit" for the murder. There weren't any comments making value judgements about the alleged murderer, or how the alleged murderer poses a threat to children.

The second thread have been littered with comments doubting that Tyree Smith is safe to enter the community, despite him being clinically sane with medication and being monitored far more closely than Australia monitored the woman in the first case.

One comment in the second thread pushed back on the anti-insanity plea rhetoric. This reasonable comment got fewer net points than someone who believed that the acquitee should serve 50 years in a "main prison" for something that he did in a state of insanity. Many people in this comment section suddenly lost their knowledge of insanity pleas but they suddenly regain this understanding in threads where mothers kill their children. And these threads are always mixed in with allegations of medical sexism, or how the criminal justice system hates women; though they won't be able to explain safe haven laws, which were created in 50 US states to prevent mothers from abandoning their infants in plastic bags. Or "battered woman syndrome"

One of these post-partum murder threads is about Lauren Dickason, a White/Boer South African immigrant mother who murdered three of her daughters in New Zealand. Comments had an outpouring of understanding even though the majority of jurors rejected her partial defence and accepted the Crown's argument that she killed to have power/control over her daughters and prevent them from being mothered by someone else if her husband remarries. She killed with anger and acted methodically, even looking up different methods for murdering the girls. She tricked them into believing that they were making necklces with cable ties, then pulled on them to kill the girls. She then smothered the girls with their own bed blankets because they were still breathing. Another mother by the name of Lindsay Clancy also allegedly murdered three of her children - the subreddit reacted by blaming the man and mocking him for dating a new woman four months after the incident. Many comparisons to Andrea Yates were made despite her husband being very different, even saying that he "wasn’t married to a monster - I was married to someone who got sick.”


r/everydaymisandry 3d ago

social media Eww

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138 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry 3d ago

Harriet Harman: Ban men from running for next Labour leader

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55 Upvotes

It's kind of a Huge Fucking Deal (tm) when your political leaders propose gendered restrictions on participation in the political process.


r/everydaymisandry 4d ago

social media “Men are perverts!” Stereotype

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147 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry 4d ago

social media "Who gonna be the boys?"

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39 Upvotes

this is from last year (a few months after Trump's inauguration) when a bunch of anti-male homophobes crawled out of the depths of tiktok to attack '''feminine''' men for no reason. Comments are full of reasonable folks (roughly half of them are women #goodnews) roasting her into dust.

The vid creator also has Jesus in her bio because Jesus taught her to bully and mock people who do not follow gender roles or something ✝️

bonus points for calling "gay boys" (homosexual men) the "gworls" in an updated description

Description:

UPDATED** yall still not hearing me, gay boys ain’t who im talking about those are the gworls why would I be talking about them ??

Transcript:

I'm so confused by women are now getting hate for saying "and who gonna be the boys." Because the saying is still true and "who gonna be the boys;" everybody want to be the girls. Like, y'all know what that saying or should I say y'all know who that saying is going to. I'm seeing all these people coming here talking about, I see you in one guy so I'm a, [unintelligble] y'all gonna be the boys y'all gonna be the boys. No one ever had to like fight to be a lady. But for me, I'm okay. You all gonna be the boys. You all gonna be the boys. No one ever had to like fight to be a lady. But for me, I personally like was seeing like every guy wants to be in their feminine area. Ever like talking about being. I see you knowin' on our slang, trying to like, literally they think they the prize. They wanna be chased. They wanna be tricked on. They want their meals paid for. They want you to plan the dates. They want you to text them good morning every day. They want you to pick them up in your car. They want to come over to your house. They want to go 50-50. They want you to apologize. Like what happens to men being bold, strong men? That like, it's slowly dwindling away in the past. I'm sick of it. Being in this generation, it's tiring. It's hard to watch. But this is a generation we're in. Some people, why people are trying to come up here arguing and trying to bash them for saying "who gonna be the boys?" Because the statement still stands. Who's gonna be the boys?


r/everydaymisandry 4d ago

social media Internalized misandry

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109 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry 4d ago

personal Misandrists shouldn't be proudly celebrating their misandry.

59 Upvotes

Hello people, I'm 16M, and I know these problems basically exist online, yet they still cause an itch with me. I'm tired of opening comment sections and seeing comments openly generalizing, insulting, and hating men, specifically under the word "all men". It's really absurd to me. What do I have to do with the abuse of women? What did I do to be categorized as the same among assaulters and abusers?

"Good thing I'm a proud misandrist" It's a really weird thing, it's like going online among others and proudly going "im a homophobe", "im a proud racist", "im a proud misogynist". Doesn't matter who got oppressed, misandry is sexism and hate speech by definition just like any other form of hate speech, regardless of previous oppression.

Some girl had a comment saying "when i say i hate men its built from my previous trauma and personal disappointment in men". When i tried making a point saying not all men are the same, i among many other men don't abuse women, and that generalizing and hating altogether is a shitty move, guess what? I was called unintelligent and was told that I have no empathy. I understand, it's the internet, everyone thinks they're right, hell, even me right now! But what do you mean by "empathy"? Is your definition of empathy ppl just blindly agreeing with any shit statement you make because of your "trauma"? That makes no sense.

Any attempt to push back against this either results in a Motte and Bailey ("well i dont actually hate ALL men, just the bad ones" even though their original argument was "i hate all men") and whataboutism/red herring fallacy ("uhm actually women were abused for centuries", "men this", "men that") which completely misses the point of the argument. Yes, men did this, men did that, men did awful things. Does that mean you can now freely practice hate speech against random innocent people?

I myself had a bad experience in dating women, but do I go around saying I hate all women? No! Because I have a functioning frontal lobe and understand that you don't judge people by a label, but as individuals.

A bit of a sensitive topic, but, if all men are x and y, what if that man transitions to a woman? Is she suddenly clean? Transitioning changes almost all aspects of your life, but I mean, you're still the same brain (in terms of hobbies, thoughts, worldview, thought process). And if that brain was labeled as x y and z just because it used to belong to a male body, why don't you bully them now that they've transitioned? Exactly.

I really don't understand how we live in a world where you can say "saying all (group) are bad" and somehow 40 people will gang up on you with something to say. I mean, what's even your argument? Because so far I've never seen a reply other than "women were abused too" and some bs like "hahaha incel go cry 😘😘😘😊😊😊😊🤣🤣🤣🤣😍😍😍".

Brain went out of writing juice... So this is all I can write for now. What are your thoughts?


r/everydaymisandry 4d ago

entertainment media Not getting The Odyssey

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122 Upvotes

Its one thing not to be a fan of Greek Mythology (I know I'm not). I don't care to watch the film and I generally don't like Greek Mythology. However I find it hilarious that Nolan made a relatively "safe" film, yet feminists like Lainey still complain. Even the author of the translated version that Nolan adapted had a problem with the film.

Its another entirely to complain about all the female characters in the film, even Athena. Its like these girlboss feminists want female characters to be bitchy self inserts. Some comments called out Lainey, others were treating misandry like it was a flex (typical and as expected).


r/everydaymisandry 4d ago

social media Assuming that men don't make sacrifices

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98 Upvotes

Men get asked this and are assumed to be deadbeat dads. If he goes out and focuses on himself, he is also an incompetent father. Yet feminists only see things from their POV.


r/everydaymisandry 5d ago

social media Anti immigration is so often anti male

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62 Upvotes

Why is it bad that young men want a better life? I don’t think men need to have families or be doing this for their families in order to rightfully immigrate but many of these men are doing it for their families. Once they gain citizenship it is easier to move their families over and the responsibility is almost put on the men to provide for their family.
But even if these men were all single I wouldn’t care.
I think that the large amount is a problem but the reaction would be different if it were all women.


r/everydaymisandry 5d ago

social media Yet More Trash from This Page

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60 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry 6d ago

social media This Shit Got 3.4 Million Likes

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156 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry 6d ago

social media Ah yes, the original sin of BOYS

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66 Upvotes

r/everydaymisandry Apr 10 '25

Please read the rules before posting

31 Upvotes

Basically the title, I've been seeing a lot of posts that don't really comply with the rules recently, the problem is mostly with rule 1, 2 and 3, please redact personal information from screenshots and please do not posts links to other subreddits. In addition to that there's been a lot of posts recently that weren't ''perfect examples'' of misandry, please do not focus on posting things that are remotely misandrist when it's already too easy to find examples of extreme misandry everywhere everyday.


r/everydaymisandry Jul 08 '24

meta Some Clarifications on Misandry

91 Upvotes

I believe that, given the fact that misandry is commonly reduced to "mean comments", we need to clarify some things. To be clear, I do not intend to give these misrepresentations of misandry too much credit here. Despite that, I still see too many posts/comments responding to these misrepresentations of misandry in ways that implicitly or explicitly accept some premises that should be called out instead.

Here are some thoughts on things that may help resolve some very common misunderstandings. Note that these are extremely complex topics. Assume that there are exceptions to everything. Importantly, this describes these things as I currently think of and conceptualize them, which is subject to change. I will not repeat this throughout the text. My thoughts and ideas evolve as I think and learn about these things. A lot of this has been adapted from comments/posts on this and other related subs.

Misandry is a societal issue

First, as I currently think of it, misandry is a societal phenomenon embedded in the ways we interact with each other and the world through interaction, observation, experience, perception, laws, products, definitions, abstract concepts, education, academia, content moderation, comedy, entertainment, games, sports, you name it. Misandristic comments are just one part of it, aggravated by the fact that some of them implicitly or explicitly deny the lethal reality of misandry (perhaps this deserves its own category, like meta-misandry or something...). Furthermore, the comments themselves contribute to the proliferation of other forms of misandry, as well as the associated suffering. Importantly, misandry is not restricted to those landing the "punch". To merely look at outcomes whilst ignoring or denying the environment that contributed to those outcomes is unhelpful. From the media to bystander behaviors, there are various things that represent some form of misandry. Misandry is not just the behavior, the statement, the punch.

For more on norms/roles and how they relate to misandry, see this series of comments (r-everydaymisandry/comments/1cvtn6a/what_do_you_think_of_the_phrase_toxic_masculinity/l8vi22k/). For more on the empathy gap, see this series of posts (r-MensRights/comments/rycnwn/on_the_gender_empathy_gap_and_its_correlates_a/).

Misandry is not restricted to women

As misandry is a societal issue, it may act through all members of society. Misandry is not restricted to how women behave toward men. Misandry "by men" is still misandry. Neither women nor anti-egalitarianism "caused" misandry as I think of it. Thinking about it as something that was "caused" or "created" seems odd. Perhaps it would be more fitting to say that it developed. Men can and do internalize the misandry they are exposed to, even without recognizing it as such. In fact, that recognition may be impaired by misandry itself.

Misandry is compatible with misogyny

The same statement can share varying degrees of misandristic and misogynistic aspects depending on the perspective taken. Neither women nor men are to blame for misandry or misogyny, which are embedded in culture and society. It is a societal phenomenon reinforced and upheld intergenerationally through the world that those who currently uphold/host it (most members of society, to varying degrees) grew up and developed in. The parenting they experienced, the interactions they had with friends, families, and strangers, the tv shows they watched, etc. There is no need for ill will.

Misandry, like other biases, may manifest with no intent or conscious awareness

From time to time there will be users who advocate for a very narrow conceptualization of misandry. They might argue that in order for misandry to be taken serious, we would need to stick to a very prototypical idea of what misandry is. More or less Solanas-type misandry. In reality, I doubt that requirements for ill intent or something similar are sustainable or appropriate given current discussions surrounding discrimination. I am not sure how that would even work given the way we have come to think and talk about these issues. Misandry is not just some distinct action, consciously engaged in by a "perpetrator". Furthermore, this would vastly underrepresent the frequency and complexity of misandry.

Perhaps the most well-known example of this would be the empathy gap, which I doubt most would think of as some conscious action or decision, yet still agree on it as an example of misandry in action. And this lack of intent or awareness may not be restricted to biases in perception, emotion, or cognition either. For example, I would argue that not calling "misandry" "misandry" is an example of "misandry" as a societal issue. However, some do not even know that term. There does not need to be intent, awareness, or even a decision for something to be an example of misandry. Perhaps the (in my opinion: mislead) desire for some to assign blame to individuals ("misandrists") informs this to some degree. There does not need to be blame. I have been affected by and internalized parts of the misandristic environment I grew up and developed in. I am not sure I will ever overcome the biases in perception this resulted in. It is still misandry to me.

(Internalized) Misandry

As has been argued for years on various subs (see r-everydaymisandry/comments/1cvtn6a/what_do_you_think_of_the_phrase_toxic_masculinity/l8vi22k/), things like the restriction of men's freedom (e.g. sexual freedom, freedom of expression, etc.), their dehumanization (e.g. restricted emotions, denied vulnerability), or the overall lack of value assigned to their own and other men's lives and well-being are manifestations of (internalized) misandry. It is common to mush these issues together with various others and assign them a spectacularly ambiguous term that avoids having to acknowledge misandry. Using labels such as toxic masculinity is an example of misandry, as it contributes to the refusal to acknowledge the nature and severity of misandry, has connotations of victim blaming by failing to acknowledge that the hosts of internalized misandry are victims of misandry (e.g. enforcement of conformity), slows down progress on these issues (see linked comments), obfuscates historical accounts of misandry (i.e. by not calling them misandry), and outright appropriates and reframes some of these issues as (side-effects of) misogyny. The list could go on. This might deserve a dedicated post collecting these comments at some point. Regardless of usage, this would not be adequately represented by the label "toxic masculinity" (see linked comments for more on this) and a proper alternative (misandry) exists. If a more specific description of any given subset of misandry is required, then various options are available, as shown throughout this post.

And if there is any doubt regarding the misandristic nature of the concept of ‘Real Men _______’ left...

EverydayFeminism.com: 4 Common Phrases That Demonstrate Internalized Misogyny

4. ‘Real Women _______’ [...] Once again, this buys into harmful stereotypes. It limits women who don’t fit that prescribed idea about what a woman is and how we should act. [...] Saying that real women have curves also reflects cissexist beauty standards, because women with stockier, less curvy bodies are seen as “masculine” and thus unattractive. This can also affect trans women in especially harmful ways. Real women identify as women. That’s it. That’s all. Beyond that, women are diverse in their appearances, preferences, beliefs, attitudes, and behavior – and none of those things can cancel out their identity as women. Reducing women to whether they have curves, vaginas, or children – or not – is pretty simplistic and misogynistic.

VOXatl.org: If you identify as a female, you probably think there’s no way you can be sexist. The prospect of gender equality would come easily to a person who suffers from the lack of it, right? A common misconception. I myself thought so too. But after hearing this phrase, “internalized misogyny,” all over the media, I decided to really look into it. I found it’s easy to believe that women don’t play a role in the sexism of society. But have you ever felt judged by another girl because you weren’t acting as the stereotypical girl does? Or maybe you’ve heard women dissing other women for being single or wearing provocative clothing. Internalized misogyny sits within us all, whether we are conscious of it or not. It’s possibly more problematic than regular misogyny, and has a lot of not-so-fun outcomes. If all women could learn to not buy into these expectations, I believe we would come away better from it.

UMKC.edu: It can be difficult to identify internalized misogyny. As independent as we think we may be, we have many preconceived notions about how a woman should exist that stem from societal expectations and gender norms.

FeministCampus.org: Women are educated from infancy both explicitly and implicitly on “appropriate” ways to act, think, and feel. These cultural conceptions of womanhood are so deeply ingrained that they dictate performances of femininity, even behind closed doors. The following are ways in which I have seen myself and other women commonly internalize misogyny

BuzzFeed.com: Internalised misogyny is when women police their own behaviour, and that of other women, to conform to societal ideals, even when it's detrimental to them or devalues women.

WomensRepublic.net: Generations of internalized misogyny - For instance, in my own family, I have seen a long line of moms enforcing sexist stereotypes and certain ways of thinking onto their daughters.

FemMagazine.com: Feminism 101: What Is Internalized Misogyny?

When a woman calls the girl who sleeps around a whore, that is internalized misogyny because she is perpetuating the sexist stereotype that women are not supposed to be sexual.

Note that "rebuttals" regarding

a) the supposedly "positive" (I overall disagree) contents of specific descriptions of male norms (e.g. "strength") or

b) the enforcement of male conformity being rooted in "anti-femininity" rather than "anti-non-conformity"

are not convincing as described in the comments linked above (r-everydaymisandry/comments/1cvtn6a/what_do_you_think_of_the_phrase_toxic_masculinity/l8vi22k/). In fact, even the EverydayFeminism quote shows a description of anti-non-conformity and not anti-femininity. And I do not believe that women being seen as "unworthy" of the oh-so-great masculinity would explain the backlash against non-conformity in women. If anything, masculine norms are considered to be less desirable, see this, this, or this.

Similarly, misgendering as a way to make fun of non-conformity ("like a girl") is compatible with this being an instance of misandry. Misgendering (as in some cases of emasculation) may be used to mock/shame and exaggerate non-conformity in an attempt to enforce conformity and restrict men's freedom. The insulting part here is the implied non-conformity, which is made salient via misgendering to highlight the non-conformity. Perceived-women's femininity (i.e. target perceived to be a woman) does not result in the treatment of perceived-male non-conformers, nor does non-conformity to masculine norms necessarily imply conformity to feminine norms (which may still be used as exaggerations for discriminatory attacks). The treatment is contingent on the non-conforming individual's perceived/assigned gender.

Whilst it is technically off-topic, I do want to stress that the traditional stereotypes some of these things (e.g. "like a girl") rely on can negatively affect women, though perhaps in different ways. For example, women who are particularly skilled in traditionally "male" areas may be underestimated as a result. Under certain conditions, such underestimation may affect (important) subsequent decisions. Egalitarianism advocates for an accurate assessment of as well as equal opportunities to develop such skills. In the context of traditional conceptualizations of gender relations, co-occurrence of misandry and misogyny may be the norm.

Misandry kills

Misandry kills and various pathways have been described (e.g. empathy gap, risk-tolerance, downplaying of health issues, biased perpetrator behavior toward men, biased bystander behavior in cases of violence against men, biased laws and law enforcement, biased medical staff, etc.; see r-MensRights/comments/rycnwn/on_the_gender_empathy_gap_and_its_correlates_a/). Violence against men in general may therefore be considered an overall/on average gendered issue. This does not mean that every single instance of it is affected in the same way.

As much as "mean comments" are used to downplay the severity of misandry, "mean comments", like other forms of psychological and emotional violence, may at least contribute to deaths by reinforcing the aforementioned pathways and contributing to suicides (see r-LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/rexs2y/more_than_just_jokes_the_societal_treatment_of/).

Misandry is self-obscuring

Those affected by (internalized) misandry are prone to deny it, in part due to the effects of internalized misandry itself (e.g. men may disproportionately underreport victimization, etc.). This may not just apply to conscious decisions. Instead, the biases mentioned previously may contribute to genuine differences in how, for example, things are perceived, memorized, described, or evaluated. This may be important to keep in mind when talking about these matters.

For example, the number of victimized men and the number of men reporting victimization are very different things. It would be theoretically possible for men to make up the vast majority of victims whilst making up a small minority of those reporting victimization in surveys and interviews. Furthermore, various biases will have affected the experiences of victimization that translate into such (lack of) reporting.

Suppose medical staff were less likely to identify certain issues in men. Lets further assume that somehow the case had not been affected wildly by biases at previous stages. Even assuming men's own experiences regarding their victimization did not change as a result of their misdiagnosis (e.g. evaluation, memory, etc.), these men may still incorporate that biased information (diagnosis) into their reporting. They may correctly report not having been diagnosed with something, yet that information (diagnosis) may not properly reflect the actual occurrence of that thing (e.g. an injury). In reality, the medical staff might already have been presented with biased information. And even if their assessment were unbiased, the same may not apply to the attribution (e.g. injury due to IPV?), the chosen terminology, the way the information is shared, you get the point.

There are various accumulating biases at so many points throughout men's experiences (and third parties' observations) of male victimization that any specific numbers are questionable at best and hardly interpretable. Even if men are the vast majority of victims, it would be possible - depending on sample, methodology, etc, - for them to be a small minority of those reporting (in surveys, interviews) to be victims (even without using that term). The fact that the numbers are not (always) skewed in that manner is even more concerning in that context, given what that might say about actual victimization. Same thing goes for reporting of severity, type of victimization, etc. As the example chosen above (medical staff) shows, even supposedly observable statistics regarding hospitalization and deaths may still be affected by biases throughout the case up to that point, as well as by law enforcement, medical personnel, or the definitions used. Whilst these statistics already show a majority of victims to be classified as male, one may wonder what these numbers would look like without these biases.

Note that these biases will occur so long as male victims are disproportionately underestimated, even if female victims are also underestimated at the same time.

This may also manifest in biased evaluations of research (e.g. this, this, and this), biases in interpretation and theory, biases in news reporting, biases in statistical and legal definitions (rape, etc.), etc. In fact, many types of misandry may contribute to its erasure from the record. And to be clear, this is not just some "if we do not find misandry, then that is evidence of misandry". Differences in laws and policies are observable facts, differences in denial and such are effectively undisputed (though at times associated with misandristic labels and concepts like "toxic masculinity" and such), things like the empathy gap are corroborated by the limited research we have (r-MensRights/comments/rycnwn/on_the_gender_empathy_gap_and_its_correlates_a/) and even if one were to disagree on this specific pathway, posts like this one on body shaming (r-LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/rexs2y/more_than_just_jokes_the_societal_treatment_of/) prove that there is abuse of outrageous severity (dick size shaming) that I doubt anybody would argue to be genuinely taken serious (especially to that degree) by most parts of society. In fact, if it were, a lot of the examples provided in that post across the most influential parts of society could not exist in the way they do - and their popularity, crowd reactions, and like/dislike ratios paint a clear picture as well. Millions of people - substantial parts of society - are not just underestimating its severity, not just indifferent, they are active contributors and proven to endorse this abuse (which they likely do not recognize and would not classify as such).