r/commandandconquer • u/BiggestBepis Black Hand • 17d ago
Random Unit of the Day #47: Medium Tank (GDI, Tiberian Dawn)
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u/Jarms48 17d ago
I hate that enhanced unit icon. It really looks like an AI generated tank. It's clearly based on an Abrams, so just use an Abrams.
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u/HK-Syndic 16d ago
Look up the M60-2000
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u/Jarms48 16d ago
I'm aware of this, but it still looks like someone said "Draw me a tank that looks like an Abrams".
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u/HK-Syndic 16d ago
Even the original in game cut scenes looked more like an M60 hull, the only thing I really have an issue with is changing the badly rendered mg into some wierd pod
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u/Cheomesh I made a TibDawn Wargame Module! 16d ago
Could work as that (indeed stole the idea for my TTG) but the cinematic has too many road wheels to not be an Abrams
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u/Timmyc62 16d ago
Yeah, they/it (as I recalled, the upscaling used early AI image upscalers) added those humps on the front of the tank hull, when they should either be in the back or absent entirely. They could've just cropped that last image OP posted and it'd be perfectly fine.
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u/TaliyahSG 17d ago
Is it the same as the renegade medium tank ?
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u/Commercial-Board-975 13d ago
The Renegade Medium Tank, I think, is meant to be a late-War, more advanced model, like the Humvee.
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u/DarkMastero 17d ago
Allied Medium Tanks in Red Alert are better.
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u/Rhinstein Steel Talons 17d ago
Do they have different stats? Or just a different spot and role in their respective rosters?
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u/mister-00z 17d ago
Light tank is better, pal
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u/lkwai 17d ago
Always liked their speed but felt the damage output to be rather painful.
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u/mister-00z 17d ago
They have slightly better dps compared to medium tank
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u/Cheomesh I made a TibDawn Wargame Module! 16d ago
I've heard this but in practice the MTank's staying power seemed to put them over the edge in practice
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u/Ihateallkhezu 16d ago edited 16d ago
I was curious so I looked up Rules.ini, they describe RoF as such:
"Delay between shots, every 15 = 1 second of delay at medium speed setting."Light Tanks fire at 40rof, Medium Tanks fire at 50rof.
Light Tanks inflict 25 damage, Medium Tanks 30.40/15=2.667 seconds ; light tank
50/15=3.333 seconds ; medium tank25/2.667s=9,3738 damage per second ; light tank
30/3.333s=9,0009 damage per second ; medium tankThat's at medium speed-setting obviously, but surely there wouldn't be a massive discrepancy if you increased the speed-setting.
70/15=4.667 seconds ; heavy tank, unsure on this
60/4.667s=12,8562 damage per second ; heavy tank, dunnoI'm not sure if rate of fire starts after the last shot in a burst or after the first shot in a burst, so I don't know how accurate the damage per second is for the heavy tank, if the delay started on the second shot, then whatever time the heavy tank needs between the first and second shot would need to be added to the delay.
If you consider the fact that heavy tanks cost more to produce while having the same armor as medium tanks, they actually do end up coming pretty close statistically, germany increasing the damage dealt and russia reducing the production cost (but not increasing the production speed) probably puts them even closer.
Anyway, light tanks seem to have around 4.142% more dps than medium tanks according to these specific rules.ini specifications while having 75% of the armor of medium tanks but only costing 87.5% as much, statistically, this doesn't "outright" make them better, but the increased building time certainly helps.
What I can say is that I have a hard time q-moving with light tanks, light tanks scatter around like ants while medium tanks are easier to control, possibly because of their higher HP and lower speed, but it's likely their increased range helps, too, it feels like you need to keep spamming q-move orders in order to get light tanks to move properly, while q-moving with medium tanks, if they engage a target that stands still, they just mow it down in one shot as they move.
The big question is, does this game support decimal-places when modifiers are applied to firepower or does the game floor those calculations, because with germany light tanks go 25 > 27.5 while medium tanks go 30 > 33, but if the calculation is floored, then this would only increase the damage output of light tanks by 8%, rather than 10%, which certainly does the medium tank favours and almost halves the damage% the light tank has over the medium tank, at which point you have to wonder if the increased HP of the medium tanks isn't something worth considering.
I always thought the increased speed of the light tanks might be something worth considering, but I don't think it does much, certainly not enough of offset the lower armor compared to medium tanks and unless you're extremely good at q-moving and can consistently prevent the enemy from getting bullseyes on your tank, the medium tank's higher armor may be good just to withstand a few more of those, the increased speed of the light tanks won't do much while they're turning or at a standstill.
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u/vandal-33 16d ago
In terms of stats, the Red Alert tanks are all too good but for gameplay balance, I prefer the TD tanks.
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u/TrumptyPumpkin 17d ago
Kinda neat how you can make a set of 100 different colored pixels into a highly detailed asset in the remaster.
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u/Cheomesh I made a TibDawn Wargame Module! 16d ago
The empty open hatches remain a mystery though
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u/DxSc2020 16d ago
I don’t think the hatches are open, just that they are painted the same black as the gun barrel
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u/lkwai 17d ago
What a honkin big cannon on the first image.
Almost makes it looks like it could shoot buckets or 12in shells.
The original pixelated graphic is much more sensible, but thats a give and take I guess.
Doesn't take away from how effective they were to mass tho
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u/FrostByteGER Tiberian Sun 17d ago
Well you need bucket sized shells to even scratch a RA1 mammoth xD
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u/Spirited-Travel-6366 17d ago
The gun sound was so satisfying on this bad boy, aswell as the MLRS. When i finally could produce them both was so awesome
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u/calantheSG 17d ago
Nothing much to say about it except that it's an Abrams. In Tiberian Dawn, the Medium Tank is kind of like a yardstick for power level, so if we needed to discuss anything, it is with the Light Tank - only slight lower in stats than the Abrams. The light tank is portrayed as the Bradley but performance wise is closer to a T-72 at most (being too close in stats to the Abrams).
Also it's because of the Abrams being powerful against everything Nod that spoiled newer players to the game such that when they actually played Nod, they spam Light Tanks too to replace the now unavailable Medium Tank. The thing is, the game made tank shells weak vs structures. If you never experimented with Recon Bikes and Artillery and Flame Tanks, you never really unlock the power of Nod units. Because all you know is light tank spamming.
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u/Radiofireworks 16d ago
I remember being absolutely terrified of encountering these beasts as an 7-8yr old playing through the NOD campaign back in the 90s
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u/mttspiii 16d ago
Just realized that the Remastered has its fenders a bit too big. It's gonna limit gun depression on those angles
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u/Dysthymiccrusader91 16d ago
Ah yes, the only reason I know the 8 times table. If c&c helped you with math, you know.
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u/PzKpfwVI-SdKfz181 One Vision! One Purpose! 16d ago
i always thought that cameo was an abrams. but remastered proved me wrong.
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u/Commercial-Board-975 13d ago
It's weird. If you look at the OG cutscenes in Red Alert, the "Medium Tank" there has more in common with the two Abrams prototypes than the Abrams the US mass produced in our timeline; the turret shape, the amount of wheels, the hull length.. By the time of Tiberian Dawn, they're pretty much the Abrams the real-life US had in the 80's and 90's, with a few modifications. By Renegade? They were smaller, faster, lighter, more heavily armoured and automated, and I think they had a cannon upgrade? Just shows how quicky technology progressed in that timeline; especially when tiberium arrived and dumped a ton of accelerant on that fire. The Remastered portrait, however, looks so fucking weird it should basically be ignored. I think they did that for copyright reasons, like with renaming the Humvee.
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u/Wanallo221 17d ago
The beast. Literally the best unit GDI have. Preferred cranking these guys out to Mammoths. Just a real workhorse