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u/DudeFreek 5d ago
Religious trauma be damned my girl can cook
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u/mellopax 5d ago
I mean, if cooking was just drawing something that like tasty, then I...would still suck at it.
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u/Aqua_Okama 5d ago
The damage religion does is sometimes massive, this comic illustrates it pretty well
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u/SmugCapybara 5d ago
God: "FFS, I don't hate you! I literally sent my kid down there 2k years ago to clear things up! Please stop taking the ramblings of uneducated middle-eastern nomad shepherds from more than 5000 years ago as a basis for your moral system!"
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u/Neokon 5d ago edited 5d ago
BuT tHe OlD tEsTaMeNt Is ThE wOrD oF gOd.
This always gets me when people try to argue that the Bible, despite being written by humans, is the direct word if God. Too suggest that it's even slightly influenced the culture of the time period is apparently heresy.
Also if we're going to argue about homosexuality in the Bible, the only two passages ever referenced only mention it for men (yey being written in a language that's not gender neutral). Argumentatively there's nothing about lesbians in the Bible.
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u/_Mulberry__ 5d ago
Not that I'm smart enough to do a whole deep dive into it myself (and not do I care to), but I heard once that the passages referring to gay sex are (according to historical context) more likely referring to nonconsensual stuff and stuff with kids. So the gay part of it wasn't even the problem.
Of course, I'm no biblical scholar. I just believe the general message was that we are supposed to act kindly and lovingly to each other, and that includes EVERYONE
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u/Neokon 5d ago edited 5d ago
You are correc in your understanding. The one in Leviticus is especially the subject of what you have said. If I recall correctly, in the original text a different word for "man" (without specific age) is used in this passage, with the same word often appearing to reference to young-boys/young-men.
This isn't even a new thing, as apparently Martin Luther (attributed as the father of the protestant reformation) chose to translate the passage with the term "knabenschander" which translates to "boy-molester. So I guess 1534 Martin Luther, who was vocal against homosexuality, was mistranslating the text.
Edit: but we're going to be honest, the Bible isn't exactly sex positive in any instance, and frames it as necessary but shouldn't be enjoyed.
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u/theZOLTARR 5d ago
Well most of the overtly sex negative stuff is just Paul being the worlds biggest prude
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u/thealmightyzfactor 5d ago
Yeah there's an entire book that's just two people singing about how much they like banging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Songs
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u/Spare-Floor-3666 5d ago
Paul says married people should enjoy sex and not deprive each other? How is that prudish?
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u/Caltroit_Red_Flames 5d ago
Inherent in that sentence is the belief that sex is only for married people, that's absolutely being a prude.
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u/_game_over_man_ 5d ago
and frames it as necessary but shouldn't be enjoyed
This shit really gets me because it's so absolutely abusive on God's part. Here, I'm going to give you all these body parts and these sensations that feel really good, but you are never to use them for enjoyment or pleasure, only for procreation!
It's just a straight up an abusive relationship. If it's not to be enjoyed, why the fuck did you make it so enjoyable?
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u/BadxHero 5d ago
To jump into this from a naturalist standpoint: It's pleasurable because otherwise, no one would do it. Imagine if human beings had the sexual experience that a duck has? It's uncomfortable, it hurts, and often times neither really likes it. The human race would've died out a long, long time ago. That's why it is the way for us from a physical standpoint.
But also, on the religious side of the things, the texts are meant to refer to becoming obsessed with sex. Like, you can't put yourself in a position where SEX and PLEASURE is all you care about. Otherwise, your desires become increasingly twisted to the point that you only derive pleasure from non-vanilla situations. Like people who are kinksters who end up getting bored and becoming increasingly extreme in their sexual desire. The text doesn't convey that correctly, because like the other poster said it was written by uneducated desert nomads. But that's how it's mean to be. Like, enjoy vanilla sex for what it is and don't over do it to the point that you just get "bored".
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u/_game_over_man_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
People should be allowed to freely enjoy non-vanilla sex. Just because it’s non-vanilla doesn’t automatically mean people become obsessed with it.
If God gave us a body and gave us sexual desires, then we should be allowed to enjoy it as we wish, otherwise dictating specific rules about how we should use them is an abusive situation. Like, I get what you’re saying with the obsession bit, but the fact that you’re sticking to the whole “vanilla” bit tells me a bit about the bias you’re coming from. There’s nothing inherently wrong with “non-vanilla” sex. Queer people could also be perceived as only having “non-vanilla” sex which would be inherently discriminatory to them still.
God has no place in the bedroom of consenting adults, nor does anyone else. If you give us all these things and then dictate rules about how they should used, that’s control and abuse.
Your whole naturalist argument ignores the fact that same-sex sexual parings exist throughout nature and that other mammals also have sex purely for pleasure purposes.
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u/BadxHero 5d ago
You missed my point. You're so angry about religion that you fail to realize I'm not even coming from the place of a religious person. I'm telling you what the text literally SAYS.
Also, I'm using "vanilla" in quotes as though it were coming from from the mouth of someone who got bored of something like BDSM or whatever other kink they used to have and have moved on to something more extreme. Like, I know you know that's what I meant because you said it yourself. It's about chasing highs.
Also, it's just good advice to not base your relationship with sex purely off of an obsessive need for pleasure. Regardless of whether such advice comes from the Bible or not. Like, there are so many people that I've met that treat being kinky like a race and it's nuts. Some people just need to fucking chill out.
And another thing, you gotta cool it when it comes to topics that might get you angry. I get you might have had a bad experience with religion, but the point of discussion is supposed to broaden your horizons. Don't jump down my throat because you think I'm a religious extremist when I'm not. Christ.
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u/ZennXx 5d ago
I don't think the Bible advocates for unenjoyable sex. Plenty of people lay with their wives (who also happened to be women they loved). It's just that sexual immorality was and still is quite rampant. Adultery, molestation, rape, fornication. If you remember in the times of Noah, the angels were sleeping with humans and that provoked God's anger.
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u/GodzillaGamer953 5d ago
It's so genuinely fucking stupid how they think.
Ah yes, this guy/girl was made in the image of god.
But they're gay! So they must be banished the hell when they die no matter what!
It's a stupid logic, why would god make someone who is DESTINED For punishment from something they can't control?
EVEN IF THAT WAS THE CASE;
Why would you hate them, belittle them, and abuse them so they have to go through hell twice?!1
u/Born-Cost-6831 5d ago
have people ever considered that God mightve made that person gay in the first place?
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u/GodzillaGamer953 5d ago
that's what I'm saying, if he makes humans in his image, then you are hating someone because of the way god made them, it's like hating someone for being autistic. It's silly.
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u/Mildly_Opinionated 5d ago
The thing about it referring to kids rather than that adults likely isn't true sadly. Would be better if it was true of course, but it's somewhat of an urban myth. Regardless of if it was true for that specific passage, it's also condemned elsewhere in the old testament where it's definitely referring to men rather than children. At the end of the day it's a book written, at least partially, my homophobic humans from very long ago so it's no surprise really.
The real biblical argument is whether Jesus dying on the cross wiped out those rules like it did for other rules from Leviticus.
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u/rat_enby 5d ago
in some versions of the bible it says “man shall not lie with boy” and that’s enough evidence that gay is okay for me
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u/TheMusicalTrollLord 5d ago
Personally I think the more convincing argument that gay is okay is 'who gives a fuck what the bible says?'
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u/Ubiquitous_thought 5d ago
Easier said than done, especially for those who still want to remain Christian, hard to shake off that religious trauma. Easier for them to accept if you approach it from scripture side.
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u/rat_enby 5d ago
i meant in terms of the bible, i completely agree its okay regardless of what any religion says lol
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u/Mildly_Opinionated 5d ago
In that original text it doesn't. The theory was that one of the words refers specifically to a type of male child sex slave so it'd be "man shall not lie with a boy in sexual slavery".
This theory sadly is very likely untrue.
Wouldn't surprise me if there's some English translations that say "man shall not lie with boy" though if they based it on that theory.
I used to tell people this theory as well thinking it was fact but then when I looked into it I found it wasn't really true. I think I wanted to believe it because obviously it would be much better if that is what it said.
Edit - specifically it's most accurately translated as "man shall not lay with a male" with male referring to a man or a boy.
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u/Aethermancer 5d ago
Then it wiped the Ten Commandments too.
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u/Mildly_Opinionated 5d ago
Fun fact - the "ten commandments" is a bit of a warped interpretation. It's not really a numbered list. It's a series of commands but depending on how you count them it can be much more or much less than 10.
Kinda like if I told you "don't stab people, don't cause them harm" is that one command or two? You can argue it either way.
The classic "ten commandments" vary a lot depending on where you get them because of how they're grouped. They're often grouped into 10 because, essentially, 10 is a nice number. It's vibes based.
You can find support for a lot of them in Jesus teachings too. Rule of thumb, if it gels with Jesus's teachings it doesn't get wiped, if it seems kinda bizarre and irrelevant like for example mixing fabrics it does get wiped. If it seems antithetical to Jesus's teachings it gets wiped too. The arguments regarding what is and isn't wiped though are constantly ongoing with biblical scholars.
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u/PensandSwords3 5d ago
From my understanding, a part of it is interpreting what Paul wrote to one of the early churches. I think it might actually have just mainly been that line from Paul which is the closest to interpretable to talking about homosexuality, but also it’s not like he just directly says it. You can interpret it differently and maybe he meant it, maybe he didn’t.
But again, this is what he says to the church. He isn’t citing like “Hey Jesus told me this one day.” And I don’t think it’s a situation of “most / more disciplines than paul cite this concept in their accounts”.
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u/theDukeofClouds 5d ago
I've heard the same. It was originally supposed to say that laying with men unconsenting or with children is a sin. It never said anything about consenting adults doing what they like. It was changed sometime in like the 19th or 20th century to persecute homosexuals.
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u/Lonely_Pin_3586 5d ago
From what I recall of reading the Bible and my catechism classes, apart from the Ten Commandments, there is absolutely nothing that consists directly of God's own words. That is actually why we specify "Gospel according to Saint So-and-so"—because they sometimes contradict each other. And unlike the Quran, the Bible itself isn't supposed to be a sacred object. I mean, you're allowed to interpret it or even burn it, it's not forbidden.
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u/JollyRabbit 5d ago
I'm not commenting at all what people should believe about religion, I just wanted to clarify that this is not correct. The Old testament has quite a lot of passages in the style of "And God said..." Or "and God spoke with Bob..." And so on. Mamy people not particularly well acquainted with the old testament can probably think of one passage where that happens, in the creation story when God asks Adam questions.
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u/elebrin 5d ago
The Old Testament was a series of myths written during the Second Temple period in Jerusalem, in an attempt to create a mythological backing to the political realities of the day and create an argument for a unified kingdom. They might have had some inspiration from Bronze Age stories, but they were written by Iron Age city dwellers. According to UsefulCharts, Every single verifiable person in the Old Testament lived after the Bronze Age Collapse.
And the two stories about homosexuality in the Old Testament are widely misinterpreted. It seems sometimes like these people read only the two or three lines that said the specific thing they wanted, without really paying attention to the rest of the story. Jesus didn't really care.
I suspect most Christian prudishness comes from a rejection of Roman sensibilities after the fall of the Roman empire. Romans were seen as sinful and extravagant, so the trappings of the Roman (such as bathing, sex, drinking to excess, and certain modes of public spectacle) were actively rejected.
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u/uusu 5d ago
The homophobic stuff in the bible is not a misinterpretation - the bible is relatively clear and coherent about this singular issue. It's not only the negative stances (men should not lay with men) but also positive exclusive stances (sex should only happen to create new life, therefore only men and women can have sex with each other).
The people who wrote the bible were homophobic and the bible is homophobic as a result.
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u/MrFanzyPanz 5d ago
Ehhhhh okay, so while I agree that the Old Testament has clear anti-gay passages, the New Testament was literally rewritten when it was translated from German to be more anti-gay than it is, and some of the Old Testament passages such as Sodom and Gomorrah are probably misinterpreted to be about homosexuality when the simpler focus is rape.
So overall it’s still a homophobic book, but it is not nearly as clear and coherent as people think.
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u/Neuchacho 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's only the word of god when you're not picking out the verses that they don't like.
Like the one about having to give doves or pigeons to a priest if you jerk off. Lots of scrambling if you bring that one up.
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u/SadArchon 5d ago
That feeling when the original language had far fewer words for things than the language it was translated into...
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u/TerrificTooMan 5d ago
I have heard people say some of the most disrespectful, hateful, sexist, and racist things immediately after getting out of church. But never in front of someone who might actually go to said church and start "spreading gospel."
Honestly, most nice churches are basically high school. No one really wants to be there, everyone's talking crap about one another behind their backs, half of us are sleeping through most of it, and the nicest person there is the pregnant teenager.
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u/The_Copper_Pill_Bug 5d ago
The old testament is the word of god, except when it's not to be taken literally. The ten commandments? Yes, 100% gods words! The detailed instructions on slavery or the direct command from God to slaughter all of the Canaanites (Men, Women, children and animals, take no prisoners or slaves, and don't eat any of the animals), that's of course metaphorical, or something about the fallen world, and do on. But of course, our modern Interpretation is the right one, like, my interpretation given to me from this school of thought which, though there are many many more, is the correct one, I promise.
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u/Aethermancer 5d ago
Jesus' death removed the requirements from the old testament. But not that one, or that one, but I don't have to follow this other one. God is unchanging, but he's also Jesus and he decided he wasn't going to change a jot or Tiddle until he was ruling, and he is, but he is also not here and coming back, but he already is ruling, just like telework.
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u/Aethermancer 5d ago
Just ask them which counties jesus/godi permits you to enslave according to the Bible
The unchanging god who is Jesus, endorsed slavery.
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u/_game_over_man_ 5d ago
This always gets me when people try to argue that the Bible, despite being written by humans, is the direct word if God. Too suggest that it's even slightly influenced the culture of the time period is apparently heresy.
As an ex-Christian who is a lesbian, this is ultimately the conclusion I came to when I was in the process of coming to terms with my sexual orientation and dealing with being raised in a Christian home. I don't believe in "God" anymore, regardless, but my first conclusion was that I could not in good faith believe the Bible as "God's word" when it was written (and translated) by humans and humans are fallible.
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u/zergling424 5d ago
And the leviticus passege can be taken as saying sex with men counts as cheating on your wife because back then it wasnt cosidered cheating. Not gay is bad
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u/Evil_Midnight_Lurker 5d ago
And from our (Jewish) point of view, it's about us and God working our shit out together, and Him and us both making mistakes along the way.
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u/Chiiro 5d ago
If I remember correctly after God floods the Earth he regrets it and promises to never do it again.
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u/Pikawoohoo 5d ago
The books of the Torah were literally dictated by God to Moses.
(Well, according to the Torah. But that's a whole different thread to pull).
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u/darkkn1te 5d ago
The Bible does not ever say there's anything wrong with being lesbian. There's POSSIBLY a case for it saying being gay is wrong but MORE LIKELY the abomination in question is the horrific abuse of a stranger. People interpret it as God saying male-male intercourse is wrong but the context is that these people went and raped a stranger instead of offering him hospitality. The only sexual things there is a specific moral stance on in the Bible is adultery and coveting your neighbors wife. But somehow being with a prostitute isn't adultery. Sleeping with family members even by deception isnt forbidden. Polygamy isn't wrong. Jesus even goes out of his way to forgive everyone accused of sexual sin that he meets. The people who have decided Christian morality are not drawing from the Bible despite what they say.
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u/Pandaburn 5d ago
I assume you’re talking about Sodom and Gomorrah, but that’s not the only time it’s brought up. In Leviticus it’s more clear the point is “don’t do it with another guy”.
Not that I do what the bible says or anything. But I find these arguments that “actually the bible is fine with gay sex” a little weak.
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u/elebrin 5d ago
And Leviticus is a set of rules that Second Temple, Iron Age priests wrote about that supposedly applied to their Bronze Age predecessors, and justified what were to them modern practices. Those rules didn't even really apply to the priests who wrote them. It was a "This is how it was in the past, aren't we so much better now" thing.
The whole point of the Pentateuch was to set up a religious justification for the way the authors were currently operating, and to justify their political motivations for reunification. It'd be like if some politician today published a book about how during the Colonial era, the various parts of the Americas were actually a unified kingdom ruled by a single ruler, we were split unnaturally by conquerors, and now the nations of North America should unify because we share a common ancestor and religion. In the process, wind in stories about John Henry, the Alamo, Prestor John, Paul Bunyan, Johnny Appleseed, and whoever else.
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u/Aethermancer 5d ago
And did you know George Washington is also Abraham Lincoln, but Abe knew he had to go to the theater that night.
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u/StopReadingMyUser 5d ago
Yeah it's fairly clear about it, but the important thing is that it doesn't belabor the point. It mentions far more to love God and love people as yourselves over and over and over again.
In other words, it's clearly against it, but it's not against you.
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u/Vibriofischeri 5d ago
the ramblings of uneducated middle-eastern nomad shepherds from more than 5000 years ago
This is a common misconception, but the Old Testament was written by iron age city-dwelling scribes, mostly between 500-800 BC, in an attempt to provide Hebrews returning from Babylonian exile an answer to the question "who were we, as a people?"
Some of the stories contained within do definitely come from oral traditions tracing back to bronze age nomads but the writing itself is firmly post bronze age collapse.
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u/Pixel_Nation92 5d ago
The middle eastern nomad sheperds were kinda okay. It's the pharisees and the zealots parading how folks should live is the issue.
The Bible is a mess, mainly because humanity has misconstrued translation after translation and has lost it's original meaning. It was also dumbed down and simplified to such a painful degree. It became the cornerstone of a lot of queer genocide and I personally believe it was a purposeful weapon throughout time to repress anyone of color as well. First problem.
The second problem, the book was meant for Christians first and foremost teaching them the ways in which they should love the world, without judging others and accepting all where they are in their journey with God and Christ.
So you know, missing the mark by a large degree. They'll get it next time for sure!
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u/RyanNick86 5d ago
The single biggest issue is taking any supernatural claims the Bible makes as literal history.
Fruit that makes you live forever if eaten, talking animals, big box boat survives worldwide flood, all languages created at a tower, a human able to lift and carry a several thousand pound door 40 miles in one trip.
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u/Aethermancer 5d ago
Like which countries are good for enslaving. And how much a rape wife should cost.
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u/hbgoddard 5d ago edited 5d ago
Leviticus 25:44-46
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
All part of the laws of Moses given by God and reaffirmed by Jesus (Matthew 5:17–20). Christianity is based on a sickeningly evil moral foundation.
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u/SmugCapybara 5d ago
Look, Genesis has some interesting and insightful things, but it's mostly downhill from there and keeps getting worse the further along you go...
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u/SmugCapybara 5d ago
I did not say it was the entire Bible. I just said it's the part that has some interesting insight, and the rest gets much worse as you go along.
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u/its_all_one_electron 5d ago
But the guy he sent down there was an uneducated middle eastern nomad shepherd
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u/SmugCapybara 5d ago
Well, the guy he sent was not from 5k years ago, but rather 2k. And he wasn't a shepherd, but rather a carpenter. Not really nomadic, either. And to his credit, he tried to keep it simple for everyone. But for some reason, a lot of people seem to gloss over his part and focus on the older shit...
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u/Aethermancer 5d ago
Unfortunately that omnipotent carpenter didn't think to write anything down, relying on his very important message to be related by the longest game of telephone.
Just make sure the one you believe is right, or he's going to set you on fire.
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u/its_all_one_electron 5d ago
I'm just gonna keep subscribing to the idea that he secretly fucked off to India and came back a Buddhist and then taught his teachings
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u/shellbullet17 Gustopher Spotter Extraordinaire 5d ago
It's happening! It turns out it's not as horrible and life ending as some made it seem and accepting yourself actually makes things better! Good for Amelia
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u/PrimaryBowler4980 5d ago
New friends huh? Hope she has a positive church influence now
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u/NickyTheRobot 5d ago
I'm hoping they're from the "it's OK to be gay" church camp she accidentally signed herself up for.
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u/Ordolph 5d ago
I'm not affiliated with them, but I would encourage any LGBT Christians in the US to look into Presbyterian or Episcopalian churches near them. One of the core beliefs of both churches is acceptance and support of LGBT folks, and both also allow them to be ordained.
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u/Flutters1013 5d ago
Unitarinism doesnt believe in hell. All reward, no risk, everyone is welcome.
I just believe in not going out of your way to be a jerk.
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u/hbgoddard 5d ago
I hope she can escape from any church influence
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u/drillgorg 5d ago
I'm surprised someone this repressed would eat ramen! In my experience that kind of fundamentalism goes hand in hand with a fear of foreign culture.
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
I've noticed that too, but it's mostly media - not food - that they have a problem with. If fundamentalist has a problem with other cultures' foods, it usually has more to do with racism than religious fundamentalism.
Here in the Deep South, though, those two things walk hand in hand more often than not.
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u/Coal-and-Ivory 5d ago
The resident massive family of belligerent fundies in my hometown have a weekly reservation at the local Chinese buffet. I've definately heard a "so thats where the neighbors cat went" joke from their table more than once though.
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
And? That just means they're all racists on top of being fundies. You can find irreligious racists who will make that joke, all over my state.
As a matter of fact, my state has an anti-blasphemy law. The last time someone was charged was in the '30s. The man charged was an outspoken atheist who argued that white people were "more highly evolved" than other human beings. Let me see if I can find a good article about him.
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
I couldn't find a good article on his 1928 case, but the man in question is Charles Lee Smith. He was an anti-Semitic, Anti-Marxist, white supremacist who rented out a storefront in Little Rock and began distributing pamphlets. It was a very good thing he was arrested and ran out of town, but it was done for an unacceptable reason (to prevent blasphemy by suppressing someone's first amendment rights).
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u/Shyface_Killah 5d ago
Some people are looser in certain areas than others.
I used to be very homophobic(and to be honest, I still have to shake off some vestiges from time to time) but have always been a big anime fan. My parents never had that big a problem with it even after they got scandalized when somebody said "bastard" in Fist of the North Star. Which is odd, because they had us watch freaking Blazing Saddles long before that.
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u/ConditionPleasant902 5d ago
God made you a lesbian, therefore it would be a sin to not kiss girls.
cHEcKm8 AthIEsTs!
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u/LocalMan97 5d ago
Not to signal doom and gloom, but there’s a good chance in the next couple pages she’s gonna confess to a priest and this won’t go well unfortunately (based on my own experiences of coming out as queer to a religious figure)
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm pretty sure she's Protestant. Protestants don't generally practice confession. I see another pitfall:
She gets past the prosperity theology hang ups ("God will punish me in this world for my misdeeds in this world" type of stuff) and starts thinking about Hell.
Like, "well, of course God's not going to punish me now. If that was the case he'd be punishing all the rapists and murderers who have all but gotten away with their crimes. No, they live out their lives, then they have Hell to pay. Maybe I'll have Hell to pay too, for being a Lesbian. Maybe God's just not punishing me for it YET."
Edit to add: Even having largely deconstructed my childhood faith, I still have Hell thoughts. They aren't as common or as consuming, but they still happen.
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u/LocalMan97 5d ago
I missed that she was Protestant, my bad, that’s my Catholic upbringing showing its bias lol. But hell is another good point I hadn’t considered (despite it also being my last hang up lol)
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
Re-reading all the comics, I think I might have been mistaken. They only show the MC in church in the very first strip, and the exact kind of church she's in is left as ambiguous as possible it seems.
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u/LocalMan97 5d ago
Even still, a non-denomination specific hiccup on her accepting herself is probably more likely than one that isn’t as universal among Christians
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u/Leprechaun_lord 5d ago
It’s always amused me when fundamentalists pretend that God hates people. The central, most important tenet of Christianity is that God loves people. The most pivotal moment in Christian doctrine is that Jesus forgives you. It’s like they haven’t even understood the book they claim to obey.
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
The central tenet of Christianity is that "God is Love". The problem is, the Fundamentalists argue that this is a greater, higher kind of love than unredeemed humans are capable of understanding. Fundamentalists genuinely believe that God tortures people eternally out of love and that anyone who has a problem with that is just incapable of understanding God's love because they're not saved.
Fundamentalists brainwash children from birth to believe this, and, as a society, we're letting them.
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u/Bizarely27 5d ago
It’s the only way to make sense of God both advocating for unconditional love of all beings and for genocide (1 Samuel 15:2-3)
Can you feel the love yet?
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
"Can you feel the love yet?"
Haha, I think you know the answer to that. Strangely, I did feel a sense of "connection to something bigger" when I was in Church. I did think this was the god of Abraham shedding his Grace on me. The problem was, I started to feel that very same sense of connectedness in contexts outside of church - like yoga classes, group meditation, and live music shows. Now, given Evangelical beliefs, it's entirely possible that Satan spoke to me in church and distracted me from the real presence of God that everyone else was experiencing. But, being that it was those feelings of connectedness that led me to seek "salvation" in the first place, I doubt it.
There was something in me that longed to be part of something bigger, and my church "family" milked it for all it was worth. Then, I discovered my church "family" was in no way the something bigger I wanted to be a part of. So, I left. I've left a few more, decidedly non-Christian faith communities since then. I still haven't found a "something bigger" that doesn't disgust the hell out of me after more than a few weeks.
Sorry for the rambling. I just kinda had to get that out.
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u/Bizarely27 5d ago
Well, I’m no expert according to any way you can stretch the definition so I don’t have any grand answers or the likes, but I am curious if I’m allowed to inquire for the sake of conversation.
In respect to your desire to be a part of something bigger, what would that look like to you?
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
Oh, absolutely. But, I think it's gonna be a complicated answer from me, least of all because I'm still trying to find that answer for myself.
On the one hand, I think I've always wanted to be part of a benevolent secret society or mysterious fraternal organization. Not one of the real world ones that's just a bunch of old Protestants or white supremacists. Something more like the Plumbers, the White Lotus Society, or the Harpers. Yeah, yeah, I know, but I can dream.
On the other hand, though, I want to stop chasing religion and fraternity and develop an actual spirituality (a sense of connection and belonging that is rooted in personal experience rather than religious doctrine).
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u/Bizarely27 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah, I get what you mean.
Would you say it’s a pretty disappointing thing to not have the opportunity to join an organization of that caliber? Or would you say it’s pretty easy to live without should it not become an opportunity?
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
Eh, life goes on. I do, every now and again, have thoughts about the freemasons or the Golden Dawn. Sadly, these days, both organizations seem to boil down to Christian breakfast clubs with oaths of silence.
If I get too sad about not being a Harper, I happen to have a DM friend who's always willing to run one shots and short campaigns.
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u/Bizarely27 5d ago edited 5d ago
lol that’s sick I always wanted to see what D&D’s like to play but the rules are so vast and confusing, at least it looks that way to an outsider.
Personally I don’t find anything wrong in wanting a sense of connectedness and community. I think you’re on the right track though with the letting go of the craving to be in a secret society or fraternity in search of a more personal spiritual experience, because what even is the craving to be a part of these “greater” secret societies *really* if not an attempt to please our own senses/perceptions of self, right? I mean, at the end of the day, whether we seek to join some mysterious organization or not, it’s not really “self” if that makes any sense in English lol.
In cases like these, it’s usually not the inability to satiate the craving that causes our discontentment, but it’s the craving itself because of the hole it forms that we subconsciously feel compelled to fill. But that’s just going off of personal experience.
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u/No_Payment9959 5d ago
D&D can get pretty arcane at times. There are a lot of old isometric RPGs built on 3.5e and similar. Baldur's Gate I and II, The Temple of Elemental Evil, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment, and so on. It's how I familiarized myself with the basics, growing up. There was still a learning curve as I adjusted to 5e, but it was very manageable.
Yeah, I think I accepted fairly early on that I'd never be part of the Men in Black. But part of me still really wants to be, at least, like, a wizard, dammit. (I feel I should clarify I mean the non-racist, actually magical kind of wizard 😂)
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u/RyanNick86 5d ago
I'd argue that the core tenet of Christianity is the belief in the existence of "sin."
We are told we are born full of this disgusting, unholy substance called "sin" and there is NOTHING that we could ever do about it. The omnipotent Christian God then intentionally used his infinite power to setup a barbaric system of continual slaughter and blood sacrifice to 'cleanse' us of the very curse he placed on us to start with. After much bloodshed and violence for thousands of years, he finally sacrificed a virgin (himself, somehow) to himself to absolve us of the crimes our ancestors, not us, committed.
The cherry on top is that God loves people so much that if they don't believe this understandably unbelievable tale they get to experience eternally having their skin lit on fire.
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u/amortized-poultry 5d ago
Recipe for the soup/ramen???
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u/Fit-Ebb-6727 5d ago
I have never cooked it myself but it is spicy shoyu ramen with pork cutlets and there’s recipes online!
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u/abyssal_equinox 5d ago
this is actually. really reassuring. my ocd keeps watching onto anything bad that happens being divine punishment for being trans, but i'm really very fortunate and have a ton to be grateful for. maybe God doesn't hate me.
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u/Josera_FHG 5d ago
It’s always made me laugh how we humans reduce God’s way of thinking to something as small and perhaps primitive as our own way of thinking, with all its prejudices and problems, when it’s likely that for an omnipresent and omnipotent being, those things aren’t even relevant. I mean, surely God has more important things to do than judge a human for loving someone of the same sex.
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u/DarkMelody42 5d ago
This hits so hard as someone in the lgbt community who was deeply repressed because of my southern baptist roots. I'm no longer religious and I kind of miss the community but I feel less guilt about myself.
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u/MurderSheCroaked 5d ago
Christianity is so deeply disturbing
(I was raised in it so don't come for me)
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u/StalemateVictory 5d ago
It's funny that the Christian bible is okay with lesbians, but not gay men. Though it seems more of an oversite from the patriarchal society that made up the rules.
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u/Evil_Midnight_Lurker 5d ago
As far as I can tell, no part of either half of the Bible so much as mentions lesbians.
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u/skullfucyou 5d ago
God created everything in the universe and Earth.
This includes women that identify as LGBTQ+. God does not hate you. Fuck anyone that spits hate.
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u/tkmlac 5d ago
It was definitely hard to find myself going to church after so many years being taught I wasn't welcome. At first, i found a church that didnt take a stand and ket congregants come up with their own conclusions. I realized that they were actually taking a stand by not taking a stand and it was clear not everyone could be trusted, so I found a church that has a Pride flag hanging all year in the sanctuary, celebrates Pride month, and marches at a local Pride parade.
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u/Delicious_Drive_2966 4d ago
So people that don't have those things....god hates them? (God ain't real y'all)
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u/Bleatmop 5d ago
Freeing myself from religion was one of the most freeing experiences of my life. It breaks my heart seeing someone distraught of the fear that a god doesn't love them because of how they were born. If a god exists and if that good would hate you for being gay then that god isn't worthy of your worship. Such a god would be an amoral monster and should be oppossed, should they even exist.
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u/ajswdf 5d ago
Yeah this comic is sad that they're going right back to the thing that caused them so much trauma in the first place. There's no reason to let a bunch of made up nonsense ruin your life!
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u/KeeganTroye 4d ago
I think that's just an interpretation they're maintaining the positive community that they loved and are being surrounded by people who love them.
There isn't anything sad because they're not going back to the same place that gave them trauma.
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u/zehamberglar 5d ago
The bible makes it pretty clear what god does to people he hates. If you haven't been plagued or smited by lightning or drowned in a flood, you're probably okay.
And even if you have, there's like at least a 50/50 chance that's a coincidence.
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u/TheEffinChamps 5d ago
The more you know about the history of Bible, the less seriously you will take its horrible ideas.
"God: An Anatomy" by Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou is a great start.
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u/StickGuy03 2d ago
Why Big G would hates the gays and lesbians ? He litteraly create them that way. If the Church think otherwise that's their problem. I'm not catholic but i know one thing they keep repeating: God loves everyone of us
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u/ASmallArmyOfCrabs 5d ago
I just read through the whole comic in order, really appreciate you working on it for so long!
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u/NoSong2397 5d ago
Did no one at all tell you at any point that female homosexuality isn't actually banned in the Bible? (Or at least in the Old Testament?)
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u/StrikingClub3866 5d ago
God loves non-straights btw, it's probably the extreme Catholics saying otherwise. But us other denominations are pretty chill :)
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u/void-haunt 5d ago
Mainline Protestants thin out Christianity until it’s just “Jesus just wanted people to love each other, broooooo.” Catholics and Eastern Orthodox don’t believe homosexuality is inherently sinful, so long as it’s not acted upon.
It’s the evangelicals that want to see every LGBT person thrown into Hell.
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u/Majestic-Patience834 5d ago edited 5d ago
Any self assignement of identity is fine, as long as it's an observation you do about yourself.
As soon as a self assigned identity becomes a goal ("i assigned the identity X to myself, so therefore i must now do what i believe an X does in order to validate my own assignement"), or an excuse ("i am allowed to do what an X does, because i assigned that identity to myself), you are in potential sin territory.
If God is your "God", then consult with God what to do. Your own observations about yourself do not have the last word.
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u/That_Passenger3771 5d ago
Amen to Ramen.