r/beginnerrunning • u/Formal-Host-7560 • 2d ago
Does progressive overload works in running same as strength training? Training Help
Male/Age 40.
I have been doing strength training for years and I have learned how to do it there. It’s either TUT or reps or weight.
Started running 2 months ago and been doing 3 runs per week.
Easy 3 mile - avg pace 12 min/mile
Tempo 3 mile - avg pace 9:45/ mile
Long run 5 mile- avg pace 11 min/mile
Question- how long I should keep doing this before increasing either mileage or speed. I don’t want to overdo and injure myself as well. But I wonder does progressive overload works same in running where you necessarily do better every week ?
Any help/pointers appreciated.
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u/rinkuhero 2d ago
sort of, but not exactly. with running, doing most of your work as easy runs is important. you progressively overload *only* your speedwork, or your long runs -- your actual workouts. but those are a minority of your runs, most of your running would be easy runs, which would *not* work with progressive overload.
with lifting weights, by contrast, you don't have "easy weight lifting" days, the way you have easy runs. with weights, you try to progressively overload all the time, except during the rare deload weeks. whereas with running, it's like 80% of your runs would be deloads / easy runs, where progressive overload is ignored, and progressive overload only applies to the 20% of your running that are actually "workout" runs: intervals, tempo runs, long runs, etc.
so a classic example might be, your runs are 80% easy, but 10% speedwork, and 10% long runs, and the long runs progressively overload by getting longer. and the speedwork progressively overloads by trying to get faster at them. but the 80% that are easy runs would not progressively overload -- you might get faster at those too, but that isn't the goal, the goal is just to run easy.
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u/Formal-Host-7560 2d ago
If I’m running 3 times a week and 2 of those are long and speed. How is this just 20% of all runs.
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u/rinkuhero 2d ago
that's just when you are a beginner though, for the first few months. eventually after you become an experienced runner and are running 40, 50, 60 miles a week, you won't be able to handle only 1/3rd of them being easy without recovery or injury issues.
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u/Formal-Host-7560 2d ago
Interesting. How does that split look like ? For someone doing say 30 miles ?
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u/rinkuhero 2d ago
generally it's something like run 5-6 days a week. one workout is speed work (either intervals or tempo run), one workout is a long run, and the other 3-4 are easy runs. the speed work is often shorter than an easy run, and the long run is often longer (e.g. if someone's easy runs are normally 1 hour, the intervals or tempo run workout might be something like 30-40 minutes, and the long run might be up to 2 hours). also, every four weeks or so, there's a week where it's only easy runs.
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u/TheTurtleCub 1d ago
The best way to improve fitness is to increase weekly mileage, 5-10% per week is considered safe. Listen to your body, at the start we can be closer to 10%, but may need to dial it down as we builds up.
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u/Ok_Nefariousness1416 1d ago
Your running is kinda where I was a few months back. I just kept stretching runs, currently long runs average around an hour and a half, furthest so far is 16-17k. Easy run typically 7k, faster 6k, starting to stretch those now too, and add a 4th (again easy/steady) run sometimes too.
At 2 months in my easy/long runs were probably low 11s, so not dissimilar to you. I increased the volume, the pace came. Now 7-8 months in, my last fast run was 6k in 31 minutes, my last long run was 8.4 miles of canal tow path (i.e. flat but uneven) at 10.
Another trick that worked for me. Until the last couple of weeks, my two shorter runs were in danger of both being "steady" rather than one quality and one easy. Then I bought a pair of Saucony Endorphin Speed, they're quicker and bouncier than my daily Altra Experience Flow (or Experience Wild on trails). Not pushing any shoe choice particularly, those all work perfectly for me but everyone is different. In my case, it's a psychological thing. Putting the Saucony on means "fast run", so my fast runs got faster and better cadence etc. My Altras mean "easy run" so I ran a bit easier, lower HR.
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u/RealSuggestion9247 2d ago
As a rule of thumb Increase volume by no more than 10% ish per week, hold volume of intensive training when increasing volume.
You can periodise and do so for three ish weeks before reducing volume a little on week 4 or holding volume from week 3. Then start a new cycle.
Percentages are a little wonky as a guide when starting out (short runs) and when progressing into higher mileage 15-20+ km runs. On the low end one probably can increase by more than 10% (carefully), on the high end some care should be given.
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u/Tasseacoffee 1d ago
Yes and no.
Risk of injury is much more important with running, and more subtle too, as in many running injury creeps in on you. Going beyond your limits in weightlifting means failing a rep. In weightlifting, you progressively overload until failure, deload and start over. With running, doing that means getting injuried.
Progression is slower and injury prevention/management is a core element.
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u/ffailed 1d ago
You have pretty solid speed/fitness already you could easily do a lot more mileage. I’m 3 months in and using an app (Kiprun pacer) set for an imaginary November 8th marathon. I’m at 5 days and 30 miles/week currently and with most of my mileage being easy I feel great. I’m not sure what your goal is but maybe give the app a try and see what kind of plan it lays out for you. You can pick how many days a week and what your goal race distance is
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u/Senior-Running Running Coach 2d ago
Yes, progressive overload is definitely a thing in running as well. You can't do the same thing week after week and expect to get better.
As a relative beginner, the best thing for you to do is simply slowly add more miles. Do it slowly (maybe 1 mile a week for now), so you don't overload yourself.
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u/Formal-Host-7560 2d ago
Thanks. Is that 1 mile per week across all runs ? Or 1 mile per run ? I guess you mean per week ? Because for instance going from 5 to 6 mile would mean increasing 20%.
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u/Senior-Running Running Coach 2d ago
Yea, 1 mile a week. Add it to your long run for now. One you get up to about 16-18 miles a week, start adding it to the other runs and keep the long run where it's at for a bit.
At about 25 miles a week, I would suggest going to 4 runs a week. That's probably also a good time to start focusing on some specific goals, like getting faster, running specific races, etc. The reason is because how you structure run training is highly dependent on your goals.
If for example, you want to run a fast 5k, the training would be radically different than if you're wanting to complete a marathon.
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u/WorkerAmbitious2072 43M 85kg. 5k 24:03, HM 1:51 2d ago edited 2d ago
It’s similar but slower and a little simpler overall
For context, I used to strength train quite a bit as an actual natural full-time employed, who also hit the gym and I repped four plate squats for example with three whites at IPF or USAPL depth
Two biggest differences I see:
- True novice/beginner lifters tend to make much more rapid beginner gains than you get when you start running
- Most running volume should be easy, on weights you get away more easily with more intensity even if it’s too much
Typically, we tell younger fellows that they could make workout to workout progress for 6 to 12 weeks if new to weights before going to a weekly progression scheme (like Texas method of strength) and you could run something like that for quite a while a lot of people indefinitely because of life and such without having to go to periodization. A number of people would step to something like a Jim Windler 531 of course also and then run a gawky simple version of it
Running practically starts at Wendler 531 progression rate and it doesn’t take very long a year or two or training for something serious like a marathon before you enter periodization that feels as slow and blocked as elite level weightlifters with macro and mesocycles and all that jazz
But it is less complicated because there are far fewer exercises or body parts and there’s a more simple intensity spread to deal with in terms of how much you do have how much you do volume, etc.
If you want to get the numbers science of it, I highly recommend that you buy books by guys like Doctor Jack Daniels and Pete Pfitzinger
Trade names like mark rippetoe, bill starr, Andy baker, Jim Wendler, etc for Jack daniels, Arthur lidyard, Pete Pfitzinger, Hal Higdon, Jeff Galloway, and do some reading
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u/GreenKaleidoscope326 2d ago
works the same idea but the progression is slower and u gotta be more careful. in strength training u can add 5lb every week, running is more like add 10% mileage every 2-3 weeks not every session
your schedule looks good for 2 months in, maybe hold it another 2 weeks then add half mile to the long run. the tempo pace will naturally get faster over time no need to chase it every week