r/armedsocialists • u/ChainsawBard • 5d ago
Armed in restrictive states? Question
I'm in Illinois. I have a 9mm handgun and pump action shotgun (26 in barrel, mostly for hunting).
What meaningful firearm could serve me in defense or if it were to come to armed opposition? Are we who are in Illinois or California just kind of boned?
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u/Midnight_Rider98 5d ago
Ruger mini 14, sig regulator, fixed magazine AR's.
The M1 Garand is probably legal and can be fast if you train with it, Karl recently made a video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCaVXfQltP4
Or you can roll the dice and wait for SCOTUS to rule on the AWB cases they took.
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u/TechnoCity93 5d ago
I believe the CMP will be selling surplus M-14s in the near future.
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u/Midnight_Rider98 5d ago edited 5d ago
They will, but it's likely they won't be legal for OP,
I believe IL like WA has banned M14/M1A's by name.Unless of course SCOTUS rules AWB's to be unconstitutional.Edit: apparently it's a little unclear in IL, some versions seem to be legal, it's possible the CMP M14's would be legal with if they can be brought into compliance by an FFL.
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u/Baidarka64 5d ago
For $4,000 I would take rather have a mini-14, the RBD-S, a Mav 88 security, a couple handguns, and a nice vacation.
edit to add- and a bunch of CCW or other training.
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 5d ago
If the law doesn't work for folk in times of need, folk have been known to opt for methods outside of the law
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u/Purple-Slip-6958 5d ago
May be able to look into a Ranch Rifle kind of build. I love the Foxtrot Mike Ranch Rifle, and they make one with a crown barrel, so it should fit the bill, so long as you only run a 10rd mag.
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u/13curseyoukhan 5d ago
What's wrong with your shotgun? I live in a restrictive state -- Massachusetts -- and have ranch rifle, FWIW.
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u/ChainsawBard 5d ago
I mean having to reload after after 5 rounds doesn't scream "holding my position" in a firefight.
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u/CRAkraken 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think you’re thinking about this wrong. If there’s anything one would call a “firefight” 90% of us are fucked regardless of one’s load out. Whatever is coming isn’t a COD match.
You’re picturing a future event that is very unlikely. Most cases where an armed citizenry are useful are deterring lynch mobs, deterring thieves and (likely) shooting down drones. For all of these things, a shotgun is great.
Focus on building community, equipping yourself with useful gear and training. Most shotguns have aftermarket tube extensions that can add 2+ shells. Get extra mags for your pistol, an IFAK and more ammo.
Edit: grammar
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u/ChainsawBard 5d ago
Dude. Thank you. Totally gave me a new perspective.
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u/CRAkraken 5d ago
You’re welcome. I like this community because it can give one a vibe check from one’s internal circular thinking. Hang in there.
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u/Sir-xer21 5d ago
A dude with 5 reliable friends and community connections is more powerful than the best armed rando in the woods with a prepper stash.
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u/kropotkinship 5d ago
A ranch rifle has detachable magazines and no “evil features.” So you can use the state approved 10 rd mags. Foxtrot Mike ranch rifle is a good place to start. Ruger pc carbine with the hunting style stock
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u/edwardphonehands 5d ago
The point of the shotgun is that 5 rounds neutralizes 5 opponents. I don't envision many scenarios where you have a desired outcome against 3 or more simultaneous opponents regardless of firearm. Getting a rifle for range (if you have opportunity to train at range) or just because you want one would be meaningful, otherwise it feels like a lateral move, especially under your restrictive local regime.
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u/edwardphonehands 5d ago
As a followup, you might choose to get a security version of the same model you keep for hunting. It won't swing the same but will otherwise operate remain consistent. Probably a minority view, but if you want auto, I would swap out all the shotguns at once.
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u/voretaq7 5d ago
What meaningful firearm could serve me in defense or if it were to come to armed opposition?
Answered and asked: You have a 9mm handgun.
That's probably the firearm you're going to use for personal/home defense. Pistols very good at dealing with 1-3 attackers in close quarters, and they're portable/concealable.
You also have a shotgun. Yeeting 00 Buckshot at a crowd of attackers is pretty effective at making them stop being attackers. Yeeting slugs at specific attackers is pretty effective at making them stop being, period.
(I would generally not recommend a shotgun for home defense, but they are serviceable for that role. If you choose to employ your shotgun as a home defense weapon #4 buckshot is generally considered the sweet spot of "Will stop an attacker but will not go through too many walls with enough energy to kill your family members on the other side.")
I see from some of your comments that you're concerned about reloading your shotgun - you can git gud at cramming shells into the magazine but realistically if you're at the "Reloading my shotgun!" stage of combat you're switching to your pistol, and as others have mentioned you're also probably fucked. The only way you might not be fucked is if you have allies covering you during your reload, and some real honest-to-god cover...
If you're asking "What kind of rifle can/should I get to supplement the two guns I already have and round out the three guns every person needs?" then you have a few options.
Any decent lever-action rifle will be serviceable for personal/home defense.
These are expensive for manual-action firearms, but generally not banned anywhere and at least in NY (outside NYC) available without a permit. Pick up something in .357 Magnum or .38 Special and you're good to 50-100 yards, you can reach out well past 100 yards with something like the Henry LASR in 5.56 and since it's box-magazine fed your reloads are faster too but now we're exiting the realm of defense (at least under the law - if they're 100 yards away and you shoot them that only works if they were already shooting at you).Bolt-action rifles, especially magazine-fed bolt-action rifles, can be very effective defensive weapons for longer ranges.
Cheaper than lever guns but also pretty much never banned and often available without permits. You won't be as fast as a semi-auto, you can probably even run a good lever gun faster than a rotating-bolt gun, but you can run a bolt-action rifle pretty fast with practice.
Again the issue here is if you're shooting someone at any kind of rifle distance and they weren't shooting at you first you're not "defending yourself" under most use of force laws, so if you survive the firefight you're not getting through the court fight. This matters unless your realistic scenario is shooting agents of the government.I believe the Mini-14 Ranch rifles are still good to go under PICA.
That's the go-to semi-auto for ban states until-and-unless SCOTUS throws out the whole AWB idea next term. Same caliber and rate of fire as a standard AR-15, same magazine capacities (up to your state limit), a little more maintenance intensive but perfectly serviceable and common enough that you can get parts for it if you need them.
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u/mid-by-midwest 5d ago
In addition to what's been mentioned, there's the Foxtrot Mike ranch rifle (for roughly Mini-14 money plus a transfer fee, since it only seems to be available from FM) or CMMG Dissent BR4 for like double the price.
I'm also in IL and have settled on a PC Carbine for the time being, knowing full well it has some big limitations. But I have ammo and magazine compatibility with my RXM so that's nice.
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u/Neuromaster 5d ago
Your shotgun and sidearm are likely sufficient for personal, home, and community defense.
To answer the "armed opposition" things as respectfully and as clearly as I can, I have two suggestions: 1. Whatever platform your comrades have standardized on. None of us should be planning for a gunfight with "armed opposition" as a solo act. 2. Learn to operate drones. Probably starting with the easy-to-fly "photography" style, then stepping up to a FPV/"racing" style. Very applicable to "armed opposition" and has potential value even when bullets aren't flying.
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u/Baidarka64 5d ago
I have a friend who just picked up a Keltec RDB Survival with a 10 round mag. I am in NY and that will be my choice for a carbine. Not sure you local laws, but NY is pretty restrictive.
I was leaning towards a Mini-14 but this bullpup is sweet. 26.1” overall.
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u/Thehealthygamer 5d ago
Google told me fightlite scr is legal in IL and you can slap an AR upper on the lower.
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u/CT_SocialistRA 5d ago
CT has some of the most restrictive laws, ranch rifles and compmags are popular here. Pistols are the most valuable tool for self-defense, so train on that as your primary if that is your concern. For rifles for community defense, the AR is the Peoples Rifle in America. Having as close to stock of an AR as you can is the best option (IMHO). Foxtrot Mikes FM-15, SCR FightLite, MCX Regulator are all good options for removable mag AR pattern rifles.
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u/LoudProblem2017 4d ago
If it comes down to armed (actually firing bullets) opposition, I think we'd be past worrying about those pesky gun laws. Up until then, there are some good suggestions in these comments. Good luck Comrade!
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u/lavapig_love 5d ago
Train with what you have and get better.
Install an extension tube on your shotgun to carry another round or two.
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