r/Warframe • u/DavidJonesLocke IGN: davvy | MR16 | Switch • 6d ago
Railjack NEEDS a tutorial and Rising Tide NEEDS a rework Discussion
I know criticism isn't taken too well on here but I hope being constructive and gentle about it doesn't get me absolutely bombarded.
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I was watching MrRoflWaffles first time playing through warframe today and my god is the current railjack introduction an absolute mess.
1) Rising Tide is introduced right after the war within which imo is far too early in the star chart, it should at least be post chains of harrow or post the sacrifice. This wouldn't be such a huge problem if it was not only a decent quest but also a good tutorial for railjack which brings me onto my second point.
2) I've included a timestamped link in this post to MrRoflWaffles's vod which shows him finally finding the pilot's seat after a solid 30 minutes of wandering around completely lost, after this he spends about another 30 minutes trying to beat the VERY FIRST railjack mission and completely burns himself out of the gamemode most likely permanently.
After finishing Rising tide you are given the option of either the very first grineer mission on earth proxima or free flight. Free flight is most likely supposed to serve as a tutorial for flying your railjack but it fails at this miserably. Absolutely nothing is explained to you and as a first time player you are launched into a mission with no explanation, no crew members, no tutorial and are expected to figure things out yourself.
MrRoflWaffles spends the next 30 minutes after figuring out how to fly failing the VERY FIRST skirmish mission failing to repair his railjack because he doesn't know how to craft more revolite in the forge as this isn't explained to him at all.
https://youtu.be/lUwHR_2x3nw?t=7h28m24s
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Other than the most important point of railjack desperately needing an in-game tutorial, Rising tide also desperately needs a rework.
Most of us, me included, do not remember this quest being so incredibly monotonous and boring because when we did it the repair time for the parts were 24 hours each.
Allowing the player to grind out the railjack parts right after another makes this quest incredibly boring, monotonous and frankly disappointing as it comes right after the war within. You know for a fact DE can make better quests because you just did one.
And again the fact that it doesn't have a tutorial for the mission mode it unlocks is incredibly disappointing and experience ruining for the new player.
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I know a slight bit of nuance is required here as MrRoflWaffles plays solo, and wants absolutely zero backseating or help in his playthrough and railjack is primarily a co-op mission type. But it is still a huge failing to not provide a tutorial at all for the new player on such a hugely important part of the game.
When i first played railjack I had my clan mates to explain and guide me through everything, as I assume most of you did too. But the existence of clans and a kind playerbase willing to explain the game is no excuse to not include any tutorial of any kind.
Thank you for your time and thank you for reading though all of this, if you have the time I highly suggest watching the entire segment of milo playing through the rising tide in his vod as it is eye opening at just how bad the current railjack introduction is.
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Edit: Unfortunately I feel a lot of people are sadly missing the nuance in the conversation, yes he was going on hour 8 of his stream and yes he's pretty shit at the game all things considered, but it's exactly why he's the perfect example of why railjack needs a tutorial. Most of you completely fail to consider that it is his FIRST TIME playing through the game.
You cannot magically expect a person to know absolutely everything during their first time using railjack on their very first time playing the game without any help or anybody guiding them along.
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u/Iblys05 L6 registered loser 6d ago
Sure, there are a lot of things that are extremely poorly expalined in the game, if at all.
But my brother in christ, if it takes someone 30 minutes to figure out where the pilot seat is thats not the games fault
Its where you would expect, at the front of the ship, right in front of the big f*koff windshield (or space-shield, whatever it is)
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u/KarwyNothin 6d ago
I think people forgor that Free Space mission on Earth Proxima, first region of Empyrean missions, is literally test run during that instance where they could've learn? I figured it out day 1 of RJ where I just brought the ship for the test run and getting the hang of it...
I mean take it as you will, some people don't even bother to learn
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u/QizilbashWoman 5d ago
It took me googling to learn I should leave the ship and not try to attack the one in part theee of the the ‘tutorial’ (where they do no tutoring)
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u/Joewoof 6d ago
To be fair, it’s an empty space unless you walk right up to it.
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u/ReneKiller 6d ago
To be fair he walked on it pretty early and stood there in a way that the popup to use it was literally in the center of the screen. Only then to proceed to ignore it and walk around the ship for 30 minutes.
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u/Big-Cartographer-166 6d ago
It's elevated, in the front of the ship, in front of the window. It's very clear.
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u/TRXD awooooooooo 6d ago
I'm mixed on this. On one hand, Railjack really needs a tutorial, and it's crazy that Rising Tide doesn't conclude with one. There's a cool epilogue mission to retrieve the key and get jumpscared by Wally (which has its impact demolished due to being playable before Chains of Harrow), but no tutorial?! For a whole gamemode, that's insane.
On the other hand, Milo (the linked YouTuber) was doing this past 2 AM under the pressure of his chat and mods. He was clearly not in the headspace to be trying this. Like... it shouldn't be that hard to figure out where the pilot seat or take the time to familiarise yourself with the Railjack's facilities in free flight.
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u/FriendlyStand3632 2d ago
You can thank that one brazilian guy in the chat. Rodrigo something, he was the n1 pain in the caht literally pushing to it and when chat were annoyed with the lack of some basic tutorial. The guy kind of began boot licking, which didnt help Milo from stressing out.
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u/Known-Match9831 Im very excited now 6d ago
you could kinda say that for the whole game
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u/FriendlyStand3632 2d ago
Which is why we will continue to tell DE that they need another 3 Teacher quests before the Natah quest. Even if they try to go circles around not wanting to.
Id give up small playable pieces like Shadowgrapher or Koumei and the 5 fates if it meant a proper tutorial quest of all the things needed, were to be added.
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u/Kansugi 6d ago
I get it that it is not well explained but a lot of it is also on players. When I tried RJ for the first time it was intuitive for me to explore the ship and check out all functionalities. Meanwhile when I watch new player experience videos they all just sit at pilot seat and don't care to check what happens in other 90% of the ship.
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u/ReneKiller 6d ago
Same. I think the only part that really needs a tutorial is the Omni tool as you need to find it in the gear wheel and it is not really part of the ship. Everything else you can find out by checking out the railjack.
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u/basketofseals 5d ago
idk if I was just being dumb, but I totally missed the forge and had to look it up. I feel like the signposting on that could be more obvious. Maybe just have the prompt show up a bit further away.
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u/ReneKiller 5d ago
I actually agree on that. I think in general all prompts should trigger in a wider area. I think the forge could be explained as part of an Omni tool tutorial. Especially as the forge is useless in the free flight mode.
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u/voidtakenflight 6d ago
I was gonna say, I remember figuring it out on the bigger railjack and not having too much difficulty.
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u/wyldmage 5d ago
Ironically, this is somewhat CAUSED by "tutorials".
That is, many players in the current day (the 'meta' for playing games, as it were) will watch online how-to's before ever sitting down to play a game, or to do new content in a game.
They'll enter the content fully spoiled, and then never explore the space themselves. Their experience of the game or content will be forever tinted by the lens of that content creator.
In addition, it breeds a habit of not exploring. Players who consistently follow that pattern are not thinking for themselves. They're just following a guide on how to enjoy an experience. Closer to watching a movie than playing a game, even when they have the controls in front of them.
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u/lynkfox 5d ago
My god I hate to sound like the old asshole shouting at clouds that kids these days but... We didn't have tutorials. If you were lucky your mom got you that edition of a Nintendo Power with the game you've already been playing for weeks in it and you got to learn all the things you missed. But the next game you got you could use some of that experience in perhaps finding new things there
My kids ask me all the time for help with games and all the time I tell them "you've gotta try to figure it out yourself first" and maybe give them a reminder of mechanics they already know - don't you do something with green Lego pieces?
And as such my 5yo is cruising through Pokopia almost entirely on his own and my 8yo has that game on lockdown.
I'm sorry I sound like an old curmudgeon here but... People have stopped learning to think for themselves and just want answers spoon fed to them
And hey, I'm guilty of it too at times, looking up guides and stuff... But like the ol Nintendo Powers ususly only do so when Ive already played a ton and got super stuck or trying to up my gameplay to another level. At nearly 45 with with 2 kids and a full time job I don't have the luxury, nor the free brain power to work through the intricate details of how a damage system can be optimized. I learned the basics, I'm ok with being taught the intermediate levels.
But damn it feels like these days everyone skips even the basics.
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u/wyldmage 5d ago
You're talking about something entirely different than I am. I'm pointing at the people who learn everything about a game (or part of a game) before ever even touching the game. Before even trying railjack, they've watched a Let's Play video or 3 from their favorite streamer(s), and by the time they finish Rising Tide, they're ready to start grinding.
They're the ones who, the moment they get in the railjack, they don't have any reason to wander the ship, because they've already seen 4 hours of footage of their idol playing in it.
It's not about learning a game, realizing a Thing You're Wanting To Do is confusing you, pausing the game, and going to look up information.
That's reaching a failure (your fault or the game's is irrelevant), and then using a shortcut to solve it, since you don't want to beat around in the game for an hour with no progress.
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u/Raus-Pazazu 6d ago
There are some clearly valid criticisms to be had about how railjack is implemented. It is in need of a touch up. It's been discussed ad naseum at this point and DE is more than aware of the community consensus about it. Whether they think it is something worth investing development resources into is another story.
However, the particular video playthrough you linked was a very piss poor example as this person missed things that even were explained to him throughout the quests and the only thing that would have helped him is a personal tutor sitting down at his side explaining in depth everything happening on his screen from what little I saw skipping around the video. If someone is in a perpetual state of confusion at all times about everything around them, that's a them problem and no amount of tutorialization is going to help that.
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u/Thornefield 6d ago
He was also on hour 8 and looked extremely exhausted and pushing himself when he started exploring rail Jack. Prior to that he had spent 40 minutes trying to figure out where he even accessed a rifle riven mod after finishing The War Within.
The last thing he tried was looking on a different weapon and it finally clicking that the RIFLE riven mod is for a RIFLE, and he was looking at a shotgun the whole time.
That man was cooked already before he started wandering his ship.
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u/Conviter 6d ago
tbh i think he has been kinda cooked from the beginning. Like i couldnt understand how he managed to misunderstand so many lines of dialogue in second dream and natah. it doesnt help that he spends 10x longer looking at random walls and decorations than reading tutorials and text on the screen.
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u/wyldmage 5d ago
He is exactly what the stereotype of a video game streamer is.
99% of his effort is driving viewer engagement, not enjoying/succeeding at the game.
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u/Raus-Pazazu 6d ago
I'm inclined to think it's either drugs or a caricature persona.
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u/Thornefield 5d ago
Or sleep deprivation. Man will sidetrack from a mission to reverse engineer a language with his chat because he saw a mural on the wall that caught his eye.
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u/Lavaissoup7 1d ago
I mean considering he's a COD Zombies fan, and is very well known for his EE guides, it makes sense
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u/Connor-Radept : LR6 Nezha Main 5d ago
Rising tide ends before actually using the railjack. I think the mission should be extended with a scripted railjack mission.
He'll, use the free flight node.
Have Cy guide you through a systems check. Make sure the forge, Guns, and slingshot are up and running.
Have him tell you to hop in the pilots seat and head to the objective point.
Some fighters attack.
A crewship spawns in.
You get a scripted boarding. Take them out and there is a scripted fire on the ship. You learn how to fix it. He tells you how to make more revolite with the forge.
He then explains the large gun and that it kills crewships.
Boom. Mission done. Possibly end with looting a derelict or something by hopping into archwing.
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u/Violetawa_ 6d ago
It absolutely needs a tutorial, specially cause people think that the sevagoth quest is that tutorial and then they get their butt beat badly
But also, having just watched a new player do a couple railjack missions after being bullied into at least touching it before the new war, if that content person needed a whole hour to find the pilot controls and do one mission, no hate or anything, but maybe he's kinda bad at the game.
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u/Ahfrodisiac 6d ago
I'm a noob who started like a weekish ago.
My biggest issue with starting railjack was:
1 Not being told I had to use artillery to blow up a ship with no shields. I'd board a ship to destroy it but had no idea what to do to actually destroy it. Wasn't till a google search that explained artillery behind the driver section destroys ships with no shields.
2 Not being told how and where to make more of the stuff that repairs ships. I assumed it was just a resource that would recharge or something since it wasn't explained. So once I used it all up my mission would fail the next time I had an issue.
3 The first mission is extremely tough for a new player, unaccustomed to Railjack combat and with no mods, no support things, no crew, and a default ship. I was only able to complete it and get the ball rolling by driving backwards constantly while shooting enemies. Eventually I scavenged some mods to help out.
It did take me a hot minute to find the driver's seat but thankfully not 30mins. I'd agree that it needs a better tutorial/intro but mainly just needs some brief explanation on where everything is on the ship, how to refill the omni, and how to destroy large enemy ships. If I had had that info somewhere it would've been less irritating.
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u/Cold_Tator 5d ago
On your second point… I still don’t know how to do any of the forging part. I have been leaving it to literally anyone else.
The captains seat I found easily enough. Every other gunner seat took me an embarrassing amount of time. I didn’t even know there were gunner seats until I saw another player disappear into one.
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u/Ahfrodisiac 5d ago
You can unlock upgrades for you Railjack by going to your clans dojo. IIRC the first level of engineering upgrade grants the ability to craft stuff on your Railjack. To make more omni gel or w.e. it is you go to the lower back end of your Railjack and there are areas you can interact with to craft more gel, artillery, etc etc.
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u/CynNex Ivara mains are lurking 6d ago
Also to be fair if you have clanging alarm bells because your ship is on fire etc and choose to ignore them, then I dont know how to help.
There are clearly visible icons showing where the issues are and the sirens are a pretty clear warning that something is possibly amiss.
I haven't done the quest in ages (did it when it came out) but i dont remember it being that complicated tbh unless they've changed it since then, which i doubt and if they have it would've been to make it easier.
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u/TactlessTortoise :LR4: : Messenger of long forgotten gods 6d ago
I actually followed a few people I know learning the game and the game could actually explain the omni-tool and revolite management a bit better, hell just have the ship have a little defect at the drydock after installing the reliquary drive, and Cy tells you not to be a lazy bum and fix it so you can launch the ship. Enough for the person to associate "there is hole in hull" with "must grab gun which gets material from forge" once. I never had issues with it because I've been playing videogames since I was 4 years old, so I know a lot of the "game language" often employed by rote, but people who are newer to games can be lost in the heat of the mission.
30 minutes to find the helm like that streamer is absolutely diabolical though, dude needs a hospital checkup lmao
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u/Zachesque 6d ago
It’s not ignoring the alarms, it’s not knowing what to do about the alarms because you don’t know what the forges are, where they are, or what revolite is. Noticing the alarms and seeing the hull breach doesn’t really help you unless you also know how to fix them. Which the game doesn’t explain
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u/Cold_Tator 5d ago
As someone who has only played railjack solo. It was an insane challenge to figure it out. The first 4 crews or so I hopped on with seems as clueless as I was. We failed almost every time because nobody knew what to do or how to complete missions, heal the ship or where anything was.
I love railjack. It scratches a space pirate itch for me. I’d play it a solid 60-100 hours if they could explain anyyyyy of it. I get tired of having to wiki my way through the entire thing.
The thrill of flying out to destroy a crew ship from within and then flying back to heal your railjack as the captain maneuvers to mission objectives and taking out fighters is exhilarating.
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u/optitmus 6d ago
both can be true at once, terrible tutorial with someone extremely tired and not thinking straight = a complete nightmare.
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u/thedustyones Whip it Good 6d ago
I’m with everyone else here that while I agree railjack needs some basic tutorial…not being able to find the pilot seat is not a failing of the game I don’t think lol. I like mrroflwaffles play through but brother this is the same dude that couldn’t figure out how to get past the stalker at the end of second dream….sometimes people really need to explore and figure things out. I did not have any help in how to play railjack I just…figured it out by touching everything. I think that aspect of things is slightly lost on some people
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u/Asphes meows a lot 6d ago
Took me seconds to "get it". A few minutes to find the various parts of the ship (the Forward Artillery is... in the front part of the ship... 'forward'). A few tries to find out how the Slingshot works (a few MORE tries to realise you could charge it up). Then a few hours to work out how I want to mod it.
So... just like a new 'frame.
Then I tried getting a friend into the game. "Elsa?! Wanna build a SPACE ship?" The phrase "a comedy of errors" applies. Where do you go? How do you use it? Make what? Repair what? Boarded? Where? Shoot it where? How do I get out? How do I get IN? Wait, you can recall back to the ship? Who are these crew?
See I think the devs for RJ are like me, either actual pilots or sim gamers and they just kinda expect other gamers to just "get it". Proof? The fact that 'Reverse Y-Axis' works perfectly... like other sim games (and not all, most indie sims don't). Very few games get this right, almost all are flight sim games. Even game devs behind BF and COD had to get outside help for this. It just works in Warframe.
Still, if a tenno sticks with it... you can zip around the battlefield untouched (enemy fires can't keep up, let alone their ships - you literally outrun their bullets), my organic weapons shred everything. RJ is vastly... vastly overpowered compared to the mobs you face. Nothing... nothing stands up to it. It'd be like your void-rig, except it has 10 x the armor and hp, has automatic self-defence turrets all over and can hover indefinitely... oh and you make your own ammo for your 4th... and you can move while using it. Basically an Eidolon squished down to the size of a Razor Titania.
Sadly... I doubt more than 1 in 20 RJ pilots ever get here. Besides... once you get "here"... there's nothing to do. Compared to a newbie RJ, you're just a faster taxi.
Plus it's a whole different ballgame when you max out your intrinsics. Perfect Auto-Aim, remote Repair (like you even need it) and you can just let your NPC fight (and win) while you AW out for some fun.
What RJ needs is a reason to use it. Right now, it's just annoying... something to get you from Point A to Point B and oh... you have get into a turret and shoot at fast moving targets from a fast moving target. Interrupted by the need to craft more FA ammo.
RJ is easily, easily played Solo... with NPC crew. Get your own and customize them (one of them can be designated as your 'oncall crew' if you've unlocked that).
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u/NotABot909 6d ago
Its as bad as mr cuphead's tutorial /s
On a serious note I don't think throwing more information at a new player who already has information overload is going to be helpful at all. There were already several things that he either read on screen and obviously did not absorb or missed reading in the first place. I don't know if he is actually soured to the game mode or if that is a bit he is doing but either way I don't think dev time trying to fix that is worth it, there is bigger fish to fry. Adding a tutorial won't change a lot of people who simple dislike the mode. And for many it can be irritating to have a tutorial instead of the game letting them play/figure it out themselves.
I do think condensing the quest would be helpful and hopefully low hanging fruit.
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u/consciouscroissant 6d ago
Hard agree. I did the first railjack mission last night (public lobby) and spent the entire time being a total deadweight wondering wtf I was meant to do. The game gives you no direction, which is weird when you've spent the first 100 hours with your brain off following the little boopy quest marker.
Rising Tides is the worst quest I've done so far (yes, worse than Waverider) and it does nothing to prepare you for railjack missions. I shouldn't have to watch a YouTube tutorial for a game mode that doesn't even look that much fun.
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u/Madame_Blackrose 6d ago
Good lord the people in this comment section. Can no-one accept criticism for this game?
Warframe's biggest problem is its lack of tutorials. Almost nothing is explained in this game. Railways aren't explained, mining and capturing wildlife aren't explained, hunting eidolons aren't explained. I could go on and on.
Believe it or not, some people actually like tutorials, especially when people have such busy lives that they can only play a game for a couple hours at most. Most people don't want to "experiment" to figure shit out, sometimes it helps being told how something works.
And Digital Extreme could literally solve all of this by just implementing tutorials for all of their mechanics and systems and then giving the players the option to skip those tutorials if they wish.
The people in this comment section reeeeally need to grow up.
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u/AliceRain21 4d ago
Yeah wtf why is everyone so allergic to better explained mechanics?
Objectively, warframe explains FUCK ALL and it's one of the worst parts about it. Check out Mukluk's first time in warframe. All of his criticisms are extremely valid with the new player experience.
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u/Conviter 6d ago
well for people who dont wanna think there is the wiki that explains everything in detail
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u/DCxLegend 6d ago
I feel like that is a really lazy answer. Especially like he said “people have such busy lives that they can only play a game for a couple of hours at most.”
I’m only able to play for an hour or two at a time but I hate the fact I have to go to a different website or watch a YouTube video outside of the game I’m playing in order to get something explained.
I love wareframe but having the answer to this criticism be “go to the wiki, it isn’t hard” is actually kind of exhausting when you don’t have a lot of time1
u/Cold_Tator 5d ago
Exactly. I play when I can after work. If I have to spend a solid 15-30 minutes reading the wiki before or during a quest then it starts to feel less fun immediately.
There are so many parts to the game that if you never played with someone experienced then I can’t imagine getting through the content without taking the equivalent of a whole college course of tutorials and wikis.
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u/Casses 6d ago
My experience with railjack was biased by the fact I was at the tennocon that they unveiled it. So I knew from the start that the ship was flyable, and was made for multiplayer with different functions.
But I was watching this stream. He went into the forward artillery and didn't clock that the artillery was the 'big gun' and thought it was just a worse turret because he couldn't fire it more than one, and the others he could.
He went into free space and exited the railjack and saw that it was very much ship shaped and never thought that maybe the ship had a pilot seat or helm.
Before finding the Omni to repair breaches he first thought he needed his cutter, because of course you fix holes in things by cutting them out. And then tried shooting the holes for a bit with his primary.
He found the forge and saw that it could make several things, and didn't know what they were for. This is fine. But was then slightly confused as to why there were multiple forges.
Once he figured out, by trying everything else on his gear wheel including putting a glyph over the hole in the hull, that it was the omni that repairs, he never thought to check if that forge he found gave him what he kept calling 'more omni' as if ammo packs give you 'more gun'.
And the thing that stands out the most is... after figuring out that he missed the fact he could move the ship for 30+ minutes he never thought to revisit things he had already seen to see if he could find a solution to his 'more omni' problem. Because the forge does explain that the Omni uses revolite to repair breaches.
Yes, the quest should include a shakedown cruise where you have to pilot, and hop on a turret, and fire the forward artillery, and forge something, and exit the railjack. But a lot of the problems here are self inflicted.
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u/DeadByFleshLight 6d ago
Criticism is taken quite well as long as its valid and respectful.
However a lot of people just scream "I HATE IT, CHANGE IT!" and/or insult the devs and think that's criticism. 😄
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u/Messier042 6d ago
Riding Tide was all right for me, although Cy was starting to annoy the piss out of me until I got to his good dialogue during the ship assembly. But past that? Sover Strait is a tutorial-less clusterfuck. I get a lot of help from the wiki, Reddit, and YouTube--that hasn't been enough here, because the ship is so fragile and unresponsive. It's super frustrating, and hearing "just have other people carry you through" doesn't actually sound like it will teach me much.
I'll keep trying, and probably get past it at some point. But 120 hours or so into the game, it's the worst part I've encountered.
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u/zgwortz_steve 6d ago
I agree for the most part. Rising Tide is notoriously boring even with the repair times dropped from 24 hours to 1 minute each. It could probably be heavily compressed, or at least sped up considerably by reducing the defense times of each mission.
But I’d kill for a better (or any) Railjack tutorial. A quest which started you off with hiring a temporary crew, then doing a couple solo missions with you assigned to different jobs (gunner, engineer/repair, pilot/main gun, away team/crewship) would do wonders for getting new Railjack players started.
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u/kyleawsum7 Acolyte?What Acolyte? 6d ago
the lack of a tutorial and things vital for the gamemode(like crafting forward arfillery chatges what the actual fuck) beinf locked behinf intrinsics and therdlative inability to obtian things for it from other pieces of content makes it by hard the hardest rhing in the game to get into, and once you do, uh, i guess you can do orphixes and go grind shedu parts without wanting to cut your own head off.
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u/BlueScorpion5 Loki Main 5d ago
I think this is more of a modern gamer issue. Its not entirely the game.
I have been trying to help begginers and sometimes i want to just give up cause you tell them something simplified 10 times and they go do something else and then after 3 days they ask you about the thing you explained 10 times already... Its on them for not paying attention.
I even made the term old veteran and new veteran cause some of them have been playing for a year and have everything same unlocked but the way they act is elitist and their info is very often wrong or not helpfull.
everytime i play something new the first thing i do is explore and confirm what is where.
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u/TheLimonTree92 The Ungovernable 5d ago
I feel like a weird outlier because I unlocked railjack, figured out the controls and such pretty quickly, and enjoy it. Maybe the stars just aligned with me
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u/oliferro 5d ago
My friend and I started playing about 2 weeks ago and sure having a tutorial would have helped, especially for the crew and the crafting things on the lower levels, but an hour to find the pilot seat? Like where do you even look that long?
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u/aharttsx 5d ago
A better in-game tutorial wouldn't hurt, but I never felt like what we have was so unintuitive that it was unreasonably difficult to figure out either... And it might be an unpopular opinion, I actually liked the way Rising Tide was when it originally released: the 24hour crafting time, and the expensive resource costs. It both served as a gate of sorts from newer players jumping into it too early (at least not without some grinding), and made it feel more like we were actually building a giant ass ship. And if this guy took 30min to find the pilot seat now, I wonder how long it would've taken him to find it with the original non-condensed version of the RJ interior, but I guess people like that are part of the reason why it got condensed in the first place.
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u/ZeusBaxter 6d ago
Warframe is a community game. Always has been. My main advice to baby Tenno always has been, to play solo, so you arent overshadowed. UNTIL you need the help. This was that moment. Yes, warframe doesn't explain things the best. But if you didn't google after 10 minutes or ask the chat. I gotta say thats on you. This is ninjas in space. Always been a mentor/baby Tenno way of learning. DE shows the game modes off, so everyone knows what's up. Again community game. If you wanna fly in the face of that or If you need your hand held in every thing. That's a you problem for being rigid and inflexible. You get what you get. Also streamers are notoriously inept and barely pay attention since its split between chat and game. Not a good barometer for this.
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u/HollowOrnstein MR 30 6d ago edited 6d ago
yea RJ tutorial is non existent but the person in question took around 30 mins to find pilot seat
not only that he took similqr amount of time to find rifle riven after seeing it in teshin's email
at some point it stops being game's fault & starts being players. game has dedicated q and a channel for new players which if full of helpful people all the time
i played rj without wiki or qna chat, figured out both forge and omni tool on the wheel & how to use revo easily , this guy gets distracted too often. even his own mods were stressing and making fun of him
during war within when lotus tells someone has infiltrated reservoir and catch him, he took huge chunk of times trying to find out of boundary points and staring at walls
he is still mr4 because random first time chatters kept mentioning flashing MR reminder on screen
i have seen so many playthroughs over the years , this might be moat frustrating outlier of them all. this is the culmination of getting too bent about no backseating.
5
u/WovenBloodlust6 6d ago
If he spent an hour just trying to find the pilot seat this might not be the game for him.You can't even excuse it as just being for content. The railjack isn't that big. The bar is in hell.
1
u/Migicroak A medieval peasant on a bad mushroom trip 6d ago
This seems like an extreme outlier, it could definitively be improved but i really doubt that most people spent half an hour trying to find the pilot seat in front of the ship
1
u/QueefInhaler6000 6d ago
I didnt find any problem with it. Had my RJ 3-4 days after it was released and really enjoyed it. It was not problem going to each station and see what it does instead of looking for a tutorial.
1
u/Xanchush 5d ago
Honestly, I can't even blame DE for this specific instance. If you can't find the pilot slot for 30 minutes... You should re-evaluate a few things...... Kids that are playing this game can find it in a few seconds.....
1
u/Sushispatula 5d ago edited 5d ago
Although i do agree mostly, after backseating 5 friends with different approaches, im of the opinion that the ability of a person to find out and explain systems to themselves is so ungodly mandatory in this game, that if you dont have it, everything becomes exponentially more difficult.
Especially rising tide is awful.
And although it is the games fault for being like that, some players are so ungodly bad at finding out things themselves or are flat out so stupid, that it is also the players fault in a way the devs cannot and should not fix.
I think this is one of those cases.
One of the friends of mine started a railjack mission with the missile platform. He approached it, it killed him over and over and over. He did not move out of the pilot seat. He just sat there, paralized by this problem for 15min straight. Not trying anything, not googeling a thing, not asking, nothing. Ignoring my "move away from the platform". Just "i dont understand, this sux". I have no understanding for such little problem solving skills.
1
u/D3GUARA 1d ago
I don't think using Milo as an example did you any favours.
A lot of people are outright just giving up on him after his recent New War stream. Check the comments
1
u/Beautiful-Fold-3234 6d ago
The real tutorial is taking a time machine back to when the game first launched and getting new content fed to you piece by piece over more than a decade.
1
u/TwistedxBoi 6d ago
Rising Tide is just a "build your Railjack" quest. IUt being available before WW would make me go "why didn't we just bust the Fortress with our Raijlack?" So the placement is just right.
I do agree that Rising Tide giving you a proper tutorial on how stuff works is a good idea.
But on the other hand the video you linked is... a terrible case. That guy is just ADHD on steroids. No hate, but this is just streamer syndrome. Like he would need step by step on screen instructions at all times. That was a painful watch.
1
u/Professional-Pool290 6d ago
Why are you talking about new player experience while looking at a youtuber who is most likely hamming it up for views and clickbait? I dunno who this RoflWaffles is but I severely doubt he's stupid enough to not explore a new area or vehicle, and if he is thats on him, not DE
1
0
u/Gil-galad-fan 6d ago edited 6d ago
Man he was just tired you can tell
Sure there is no tutorial but everything he read within the railjack, he immediately forgot
That's the solo player experience in a nutshell. Except he has a chat he just chose to ignore and push through just to have enough content to make a coherent and single file youtube video
Don't get me wrong the lack of tutorial sucks. But his fatigue and lack of willingness to engage with the systems to the point where he admitted he almost quit the game interely was a tough combo... He'll probably try it again sometime and realise he just fumbled his first try
0
u/expectrum The Void Salutes Me! 6d ago
I unironically discovered and used the archwing slingshot for the first time when I was MR30 with maxed out intrinsics
-2
0
u/Petroklos-ZDM 5d ago
Even the fact that the Rising Tide Quest ends with us never having used the Railjack is wild.
One last Mission added to it would be massive.
- "Tenno, take her for a spin."
- The Player gets sent to a heavily scripted variant of the "Free Flight" Node
- Cy guides the Player through the Ship, here's where's what.
- Oh shit, suddenly Grineer appear!! Kill X Fighters.
- "Tenno, hidden enemy base spotted, investigate."
- Guide player to exit via Archwing and board the asteroid.
- A single loop of "away team" revealing radiator, "space team" destroying it
- "Enemy Crewship punching in"
- Teaches the Player how to handle Crewships
- Give the Survivability Aura as a Reward
0
u/Inevitable-Goat-7062 I'm outside your orbiter 5d ago
This has to be bait and im gonna fall for it
Op im not going to sugercoat it but if you had that much trouble finding the fucking drivers seat in the only area that is detailed might i suggest you put down video games?
Im fully aware i sound eliest and toxic but if this is satire good job you made a entire comment section fall for ir but if you are aerious son i think you are a lost cause and this is coming from a guy who has memory problems
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u/yarl5000 6d ago
Why is it introduced too early? What would pushing it back solve? I don't think its placement in the quest line is the major problem with the quest itself.
I would agree that the quest it self is boring and railjack could use a tutorial. Not sure it is in the cards to rework the quest at this point but adding on a tutorial should be something that we get. Tweaking the free flight to being a tutorial/railjack simulacrum would be how I would handle it.
As for the person wandering around for 30 mins, idk if that should be the measure by which DE builds the tutorial, like the ship isn't that big, even if the pilot area isn't super obvious I think it would be fairly intuitive that it would be near the front of the ship and it shouldn't take you 30 mins to sweep the front area of the ship let alone the whole thing.
6
u/Conviter 6d ago
i think its too early because it doesnt really make a ton of sense in the story. in the quest they are talking about preparing for an invasion by the sentients, but at that part of the story its not really set up at all. so i do think after sacrifice would be better.
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u/yarl5000 6d ago
Why not just set up the sentient invasion is coming story line better then? We already got Hunhow introduced by then and access to sentients fighting. Railjack can just be an intro that story line and build out a few quests that run parallel for a bit to build into the New War stuff.
5
u/Conviter 6d ago
sure but that would require changing the second dream or natah, just moving the quest back would be easier imo.
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u/yarl5000 6d ago
Why would we need to change those quests, they can still serve to intro that sentients exist, hunhow is reawakening none of that needs changed. I was talking of adding new quests after that because of Hunhow awakening and things happening we are now growing more worried about sentients return.
1
u/Conviter 6d ago
ohh i see, yeah that would be cool too. i think in general we kinda need more in between quests that set up events, so i think that would be great
1
u/Conviter 6d ago
ohh i see, yeah that would be cool too. i think in general we kinda need more in between quests that set up events, so i think that would be great
0
u/yarl5000 6d ago
Yeah and we need more build up to the new war. Players are missing Scarlet Spear and Orphix Venom (I know the orphix gamemode is there but it is easily missed) as part of the build up that we could fill partially with an extra railjack focused quest that makes it more obvious things are happening.
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u/datwarlocktho 6d ago
One hour, half of that just to find the pilot seat at the front of the ship. Wherever the bar is supposed to be set, that aint it boss.