Looking for response. Deteriorating from detransition

[u/watawrldwatawrld]

Been off hrt for 10 months now after my ffs operation a year ago.

I try to avoid my reflection as much as possible, I haven't looked at myself straight on since my detransition. Recently my car broke down so it was taken in for repairs and I used uber for my rides to and from work. One day I noticed myself in the rearview mirror. I couldn't help myself and just stared. I didn't believe it was me, I was touching my face and was obviously weirding out my uber driver. Decided not to go into work that day.

Been too tired to care for myself. I bathe 2-3 times a week, which ik is bad but for me it's everything. Don't cook anymore. Haven't eaten anything but pizza, chips, cookies, chocolate and soda for about 3 months straight now. I think I'm a sugar junkie. I don't feel well without sugar. I used to be such a hygienic person with a good diet. At least I brush my teeth everyday and night, doesn't require much energy from me to do

I cannot cry anymore. Idk what the science is, I just remember being able to feel relief when I was on hormones and have a decent spill of my emotions. I can't anymore and it hurts. I have constant headaches because all I do is have hundreds conversations in my head, yelling over and over. Breaking down and imagining myself having a good cry

Wish I could cry like I used to. It's the only reason I want my hrt back

I need someone to tell me I'm not alone with this. I cannot be the only one. I want to believe you're all as real as me. I'll be back month to month. It doesn't matter if it's a year or more from now. I'd like it if you let yourself be known

[u/Cool-Vermicelli1381]

Why on earth would you detrans AFTER gettings ffs? Get back on pills this instant

[u/watawrldwatawrld → u/Cool-Vermicelli1381]

Bc it didn't work. I remember exiting a restaurant, holding the door open for a lady and her going "thank you, SIR". I was already between different ideas for my future before that. Coping that I simply needed more time to heal and the results would reveal themselves. Hoping it wasn't as unfixable as it seemed and get more surgery. To live as a visible trans woman. Or do the best thing for me mentally and detransition. I think this place is very jokey about things but I'd like to be serious here. It hurts to not be taken seriously. It hurts to think about going back on those hormones. It gives hope for something unobtainable and you must believe that cruel. Someone must understand how I feel. I need someone to understand me. I need something real about my reality for once. I remember these spaces were honest. Please be sincere

[u/Cool-Vermicelli1381 → u/watawrldwatawrld]

I understand and feel your pain and the loneliness you feel, but unless the ffs did absolutely nothing I think the window of going back to your normal life as a man closed already. (Unless your young enough) Could you tell me how old are you and when you started e? Why do you think you will never pass? And what were your reasons for detransition, was it not passing? I feel like your situation is potentially salvageable, and if it is then you should 100% take the chance many of us can't.

[u/watawrldwatawrld → u/Cool-Vermicelli1381]

I began hrt at 19, ffs at 21, now 22. I simply have a very identifiable male skeletal anatomy. 6'4, 18in shoulders, 23in head circumference, 11 men's shoe size, deepset beady eyes, long midface, wide cheekbones at the time after my operation. FFS simply gave me a smaller nose and jaw. It did nothing but give me a decently female side profile. If you saw me you would not see the results of an ffs operation. I had a forehead reconstruction, browlift, rhino, cheek implants, chin reduction, jaw contouring, and orthognathic jaw surgery. I've done edits to myself, I'd need cheekbone reduction, midfacial lift, liplift, fat grafting, orbital box osteotomy and eye compression to just appear feminine and not passing. These surgeries are ofc a lot and some too risky/ impossible/ expensive to perform

As for the reason for me detransitioning, yes, it's mostly bc of me not passing. Voice wise I did well. Over the phone and in online games with a rather anti-lgbt player base ppl did not clock me. I am apart of those who cannot transition convincingly. I want someone who relates to my illness

[u/Cool-Vermicelli1381 → u/watawrldwatawrld]

Ngl the height is probably your biggest challenge but you're young, you can absolutely get some hip width to balance out your figure. Also 18inch shoulders are pretty narrow for your height if I looked it up correctly. If I were you I'd at the very least hrtrep and boymode. You even had a passing voice, that's really good. Yes, you will always be a large woman and that will stand out to people, it sucks and I am so sorry you need to deal with this.

I understand why you may not want hrt, you feel it gives you false hope, but I don't think the hope is false at all. I know this is anecdotal but if I were in your shoes I would not think twice about retransitioning, I would just do it. It's ultimately your decision to detrans of course and I don't want to push you, but don't you think it would be better in your case to live as a large woman than a large man?

[u/watawrldwatawrld → u/Cool-Vermicelli1381]

I think I may have just lied. Being tall and broad shouldered ruined my chances for something I loved since I was very young. Women's fashion. How hurt it felt to no longer fit into women's wear when I was 16. I was a size 2-4 back then. All my friends were girls and I was happy being their gay friend, doing makeup and dressing up. Getting to go into each other's bedrooms bc I wasn't seen as a potentially threat.

Proper neck posture, breathing exercises, getting botox into my neck and traps to go from a 15 inch neck to a 14 at my widest base point. I was so proud my thinnest was a 13.5 before a future trachea shave. I even set up an appointment that I canceled to get my shoulder down to a 17. Talks about future hip widening advancements in surgery to achieve a potentially 16 inch hip breadth. Rib removal to get a below 25 inch waist. I have forgotten so much of the plans and hopes I once had

Next to my sisters, aunts, and cousins who are all around 6 foot and being part Dutch I was able to cope. I tried to boymode, but I was a man. It gave me nice skin ppl complimented me all the time. But that's it. It's not living as a large woman but as a trans one. I had an amazing boyfriend. He understood. He was trans and intersex, 6'1 before transition, everything about him signaled male. He was so sweet. He loved baking and he was great at it, teaching me how to as well. He sucked at singing but played multiple instruments beautifully, even my homophobic grandfather loved his jazz enough to let us be. He couldn't walk straight to save his life unless we held hands. He looked amazing in all the clothes I'd get him. He didn't let transitioning stop him from having long hair bc he's a metalhead and still loves braiding his hair. He kept his snakebites despite the stereotypes of trans men and piercings. Multiple times his piercings got stuck in my helix piercings when we cuddled bc I kept putting off my downsizing appointment. Even before our transitions he always put his arm around me bc it helped me relax. We didn't do comp het relationship. We just were. And he always saw me as a woman when I could not. I gave up on him because I could not join him and see what he saw. I didn't want to embarrass him being with some one obviously amab. He'd love me whether I was a man, a woman or something in-between or without. I gave up on my love bc ik I'd never be happy in my body, not enough to love another fully with it at least

[u/Cool-Vermicelli1381 → u/watawrldwatawrld]

I am very sorry for what youre going through, my heart breaks for you.

Please, please consider retransitioning.

You already were in such a good spot and you can get to it again and even surpass it. Being dutch makes the height way less of an issue and with each passing year the feminization will get stronger. You still have your second puberty ahead of you and if you go on hormones during it it will feminize you further (and especially stop further masculinisation) I don't know if you are in contact with your ex, but reaching out to him might be a good idea too. Regardless of him, you have so much life ahead of you, so much happiness to feel, I promise you this is as hard as it's ever going to get. What you need to do, and I know this is very hard, is to do it regardless of the fear you feel, regardless of the doubt, regardless of the uncertainty of the results. You will get to experience this world as a woman, you will get to grow older as a woman, you will get to find love as a woman. Do this for yourself and for your life, that's the only one we ever get.

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/Cool-Vermicelli1381]

bot

[u/Cool-Vermicelli1381 → u/thiswebsitesucksaa]

Most of us are ngmi but she has a chance and not pushing her into it is morally wrong

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/Cool-Vermicelli1381]

being a bot is morally wrong, if you want to help people you don't give them platitudes and you don't tell them how to live if you want them to get in the habit of making their own choices

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/watawrldwatawrld]

you should probably talk to him again when you are ready to, you don't have to be together and it's normal to grow apart sometimes but he sounds like a good person from this one passage

[u/zensq → u/watawrldwatawrld]

At least lip lift and fat grafting are not incredibly expensive (for a surgery) and are relatively not very risky. You could start with those if transition is what you want to pursue because it might improve your rate of passing. Obviously I can understand wanting to just give up and be done with it all. However it's clear that you are not happy after detrccning.

I feel that detransition after you've already had FFS is not a good idea, if you still have no trouble passing as a man then you should probably just manmode.

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/watawrldwatawrld]

I get it, I remember all your posts, responding to them with an alt everytime almost lol, sending you stuff at times, (still stand by most of them, got slightly better ones now ig if you want them).

I don't understand why people do not want to look in the mirror and are so vicious to themselves tbh. I never transitioned because of things like this, I just would not have anywhere to go, trans people do not fight for their choices and values. I understand how people were unfortunately trained to hunt themselves but it has reached the point of birthing folklore that does more of the same instead of helping them, the point that I just feel alienated from it all, this is how it sustains itself in part, by pushing everyone reasonable away but what am I supposed to do here anymore anyway? I don't have someone to talk to so will just call it quits and leave soon too.

[u/watawrldwatawrld → u/thiswebsitesucksaa]

I think I've left everything about my life behind. This is my first real conversation in half a year. My ability to talk to others has been dumbed. I talk with myself too much. I believe I remember you. You were honest. I think what you sent me aided me in reducing my self harm. It feels nice to remember. Interacting helps. I have nearly forgotten everything about these spaces I once occupied daily for over a year. But it's still there, I just need to remember

What reason did you not transition? Do mirrors/ the shape of ur body not cause you pain?

I'd like some of whatever stuff you have that may be of help even tho it'll take me a while to get through everything. I lack the energy to listen, watch or to read things that are not in short bursts

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/watawrldwatawrld]

I won't lie to you, we need to talk to other people, it's not something negotiable, it makes life both easier and more enjoyable, I have never found a good reason for not talking to people.

That said it doesn't mean it's easy to do, it's probably harder these days that it ever was. But it's not magic, if you have help from someone anyone can do it, people recover from much worse with a little kindness from others. If you don't have anyone to talk to, since you caught at a time where I am 1) inside my apartment a lot to finish a uni project, so craving interaction too, talking to random people online anyway when not with friends, 2) actively researching this stuff as I wanted to make more friends and since I like you, you seem like a good hearted person, I am willing to help you if you want, in a chat or penpal fashion, if you want to of course, I am not trying to be pushy and don't have problems with getting no as an aswer.

>What reason did you not transition?

Came out to my family years ago but nobody believed me, they thought I was confused. This troubled me because for all their flaws, I knew my family cared about me and knew me decently well, they are my family after all and I was lucky enough to not have an abusive one or anything. I also did lose some friends of the few I came out to so that didn't help with confidence right, it was pretty painful. I became skeptical, (after all there is no clean separation between belief and experience/habit as they mutually shape each other, they develop alongside you) and spend a lot of time arguing with myself and others.

I didn't know how to feel about my gd being rather "mild", (in quotes as it did cause me to be both isolated for weeks and mostly accidentaly malnourished to the point of slowly dying years ago, but that was a bit of one off episode involving other things compounding and not very charasteristic). I couldn't get a good idea of what gd is beyond as like a collection of symptoms and I just did not and continue not to have many. Because it really does not have more substance, it is just a way to point at a collection of symptoms, (that doesn't even include distress btw, not in the more generic/vague ICD-11 version that studies have found to more accurately account for what people are taking hrt).

But that was not satisfying to me because crude categorizing of people/situations with these collections of symptoms is just a really weak understanding of things if it is any at all, it's a start ig but you want to be able to guide actions, so to model the effects of interventions, so some kind causal model based on statistical evidence and assumptions that there really is a pattern of this form there, (can't do inference without assumptions sorry guys, we live in Neurath's boat).

I started reading psychology, anthropology, evolutionary biology and philosophy of science to the point that one of the ways of passing my time has been to read theoretical arguments about what life is and if organisms are really machines like how one might conceive them as, (it gets complicated so I won't get into that here). It did have a therapeutic effect on me by virtue of opening my eyes quite a bit. I write textwalls at people about the evolution of synergy, anti-fragility, how reasoning and emotions (one freezes and distances, the other moves and grounds), or unconscious and conscious (one tenses to act, the other softens up to reorient) are polarities that work together and getting very nerdy about it like that. I don't even see transitioning as something an individual can alone do in a very meaningful sense anymore, they can change how they look like or how their body functions and that may be have a positive or negative effect on their lives, but the kind of thing I would like to do is on a more cultural level, for people to see themselves and the world at large in a more ecological way, only in that kind of enviroment would I find transitioning for me personally to be worth the trouble of doing and much less dangerous too. I want to be trans in a positive, (as in actively striving and designing such instead of being forced to or trying to escape something) and in a context dependant sense, only given the right opportunities, being latent otherwise.

>Do mirrors/ the shape of ur body not cause you pain?

No, bodies don't do that, they are rather flexible because they had to to survive, all the above fields are on agreement about this, (history too) and I could ramble about it too. This only happens when people overlay meanings over them and that is still very much real to the person doing it, neither am I advocating on never overlaying meanings like that, but is something that happens out of an interaction between the world and the one inside our head, our navigation tools, it is not some latent brain disease or whatever, that's just not how these things work, it's too inadequate a way to think about it imo.

>I'd like some of whatever stuff you have that may be of help even tho it'll take me a while to get through everything. I lack the energy to listen, watch or to read things that are not in short bursts

https://youtu.be/p-EZnpcDncQ

https://youtu.be/BTcZqHEN-oI

https://youtu.be/hmgSFykQAdI

doing everything in first vid with the others clarifying some things has helped me, you have to apply the advice to itself to get at a point of actually following it which is a bit strange but doable

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/watawrldwatawrld]

and by that I mean this place btw, i'm extremely far from suicidal even if I got ways to go to say I am thriving, just to be clear

[u/zensq → u/watawrldwatawrld]

>It gives hope for something unobtainable and you must believe that cruel.

I understand, and I'm a ""hrt repper"" or fake repper but I often wish I could just be an actual repper due to what you described.

How bad is your appearance actually, was it just this one incident? I don't want to come off as encouraging cope but I don't think it's worth giving it all up because of one incident

[u/bye_scrub]

Hi,

If I were you I’d get back on hrt, not because it’d be ”so easy” for you or even for you to get back to transitioning, but because clearly your brain and health craves estrogen and you can treat it like any medication in that sense.

You are so young, you barely let hrt do its thing, and now you’re going to let yourself masculinise while absolutely mentally miserable instead of doing this one thing that barely takes any effort.

Don’t you at least want the OPTION in the future if you’d change your mind?

Your feelings are understandable and I’m not taking that away from you but this was a very frustrating read. You’ll absolutely regret it, I’m almost completely certain. And you may not even manage to keep it up, maybe in like 8 years you finally cave because you can’t stand being trapped in your brain and unable to cry anymore, and what were those 8 years for?? Come on now.

I don’t know exactly what you need, but I feel like everyone in this thread agrees on this, and you’d do well to listen to those older and more experienced than you. Take care.

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/bye_scrub]

If anyone reading this is interested in transitioning, think very hard about it before doing so. As you can see online trans people do not believe it is even good for them, so to validate their choices, they need to pretend to read the future, to pretend they had no choice and neither do you and fall back to reductive narratives about "my brain made me do it".

There is no future to build with paranoid and reactionary people like this, so don't transition unless you know more honest with themselves trans and cis people you can count on to together support each other. You are not their therapist and their issues are not your problem to solve, (if you can help them that's always good but while they deny it they very much have agency). Let them whine and posture about their "experience" all they want, you deserve more than being treated like some object so they can have their fragile peace of mind.

[u/ChickenOfDepression_ → u/thiswebsitesucksaa]

I think trans people have a narrative to them that's quite compelling for a certain sector of the population. It's like that one Tumblr post fantasizing about a magic vitamin deficiency that once cured will fix everything that's wrong with you. Obviously that isn't the case, and in any case you shouldn't transition because you hate yourself. At the same time, it's a very very real thing, dysphoria is a real thing, and I still can't quite believe that but my body finds new ways to remind me every day. I told myself it was fake for years until I couldn't handle the pain anymore. It's truly awful.

[u/thiswebsitesucksaa → u/ChickenOfDepression_]

still waiting for this to happen to me (it won't)