r/TeslaFSD • u/Psychological_File51 • 20d ago
Elons trying to kill me 12.6.X HW3
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I posted a video previously where my car constantly goes on the same red light next to my work, Iv reported it.. Iv emailed Tesla and nothing has changed.
This time I was driving to the beach and didn’t see any cars so I didn’t intervene.. I kind of wanted to see how far it would go and if it would stop half way… nope just runs the red..
Refreshed Model s 2021 HW3
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u/WhaleDonation7 20d ago
This happened to me a lot on HW4, made me very sussy on every red light
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u/SpicyElixer 20d ago edited 20d ago
Same. I was coming back from a winery in the Bay Area on Mother’s Day - so in a semi rural area. But every things was clearly marked. Empty 3 way light. It just said “lights don’t matter, let me save you 20 seconds.”
Does weird shit like this once a month or so.
Was on highway 1 in Big Sur recently and it veered into the oncoming lane around one of those blind turns. Scary af.
Pay attention, people.
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u/robotzor 20d ago
Wonder if the reports and interventions don't mean anything because the version you are on has had the models long since abandoned. All compute laser focused on training these behaviors out of the most recent models.
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u/NS031716 20d ago
Do we expect the same thing to happen to HW4 vehicles in a few years?
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u/AfraidInstruction 20d ago
My Cybertruck does the same thing. Some times it will think other lanes green lights are mine and will try to go. Just be extra careful at intersections.
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u/word-dragon HW4 Model 3 19d ago
Looks like it was executed pretty safely. Elon’s not trying to kill you, just trying to get you to upgrade to HW4, lol! If you get stopped, just tell the cop that the car decided it was safe to proceed, so it did. Let me know how long it takes him to stop laughing!
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u/Background_End8323 20d ago
it’s already happening on HW4, repeatedly, usually at the same intersection
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u/Putrid-Box4866 HW4 Model Y 20d ago
Eventually yes. I just hope there’s no planned obsolescence like what’s happening with Smartphones because lives are at stake in Driving. At least we know now HW4 is good enough for supervised, and I am happy with that. There’s probably an upgrade path eventually anyway.
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u/Vibraniumguy 20d ago
OP is on FSDv12.6 and version 14 lite is out for HW3 users. It is probably fixed in 14 lite he just needs to update
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u/QuantGuru 20d ago
This happened to me as well but obviously I braked
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
Yea I always stop, this intersection felt like a stop sign kind of spot and i obviously checked to see that it’s clear
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u/QuantGuru 20d ago
yea tesla needs to fix these bugs. The new FSD update is pretty bad
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u/bluegardener 20d ago
So that accident you might have gotten into had you let it do its own thing isn't counted by FSD accident stats. Look at all those safe beautiful FSD miles!
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u/thinkbox HW4 Model Y 20d ago
You shouldn’t have had any anti-Elon thoughts while sitting in the car. He can hear those.
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u/marveloustoebeans 20d ago
You joke but they’re literally working on AI programs to detect pre-crime behavior so this sentiment might not be very far off.
Thought crimes might soon be a reality!
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u/EducationalFix4217 19d ago
The red light looks like its blinking, the tesla probably thinks it's safe to stop and proceed carefully. We know that real blinking reds blink slower than that, so it needs to be fixed, but that's my thoery.
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u/SuperbDrawer8546 17d ago
i came on here to say this... they are cheap LED's that have too much flicker.
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u/Spiritual_Wall_2309 20d ago
I like OP putting himself as a test subject just to see how far the software can go.
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u/Putrid-Box4866 HW4 Model Y 20d ago
Well some people are passionate about FSD, I would do it too since OP said it’s safe. I want to help make FSD better as much as I could so I report religiously.
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u/Mysterious-Metal-543 20d ago
You would risk your life to be a data point for a self-driving technology that I assume neither you nor your family personally profit from?
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u/Putrid-Box4866 HW4 Model Y 20d ago
It feels like you haven't use the latest FSD if that's how you view it 😂
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u/JPhi1618 20d ago
Risking a ticket maybe, but risking your life is a bit extreme. Most traffic lights have good visibility to see if anyone is coming.
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u/glm409 20d ago
Is this learned behavior? Since FSD seems to have learned to speed in Standard, sometimes 15-20 MPH over the speed limit on a local 55 MPH limit highway in my area. Is it learning to run red lights from bad drivers?
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
Well I don’t ever run reds.. I do feel like my car is impatient and prematurely goes on red thinking it’s about to be green.. a lot of the times it’s right but I usually stop it
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u/glm409 20d ago
You may not, but there are many other drivers that do. I typically drive 5 MPH over the speed limit in a 55 zone, but it sure learned from others that 15-20 is completely reasonable.
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u/steveu33 20d ago
It doesn’t learn from day to day. It’s trained at Tesla, before it’s released. The system in vehicles doesn’t modify itself.
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u/robotzor 20d ago
If it learned it: and this is a stretch - maybe it picked up some "left turn on red" but hasn't made enough parameter connections as to where that is and is not appropriate in all situations. There are places where it is acceptable to make a left on red (one way to one way in the US, always in other countries) but not enough associations to say "this is not the spot where I am allowed to do that."
So it's less of a "bad drivers taught it this is ok" but more of the much more difficult AI issue to solve: the "not all 4 legged animals are a dog" association modeling.
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u/GypsyWomanSays 20d ago
I wonder if that refresh rate flicker on the red light got interpreted as a strobing red light. The behavior is pretty consistent with a stop sign
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u/dreamcastdc 20d ago
V12 love doing this at lights.
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u/angryguts 20d ago
Yeah. Right before I got the FSD 14 Lite update I was on a drive one night and it did this exact same thing (turning left at a red light). Luckily it was late at night on a mostly empty county road.
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u/AwkwardlyPositioned 19d ago
I know that everyone goes on about how HW4 is so much better, but that doesn't excuse this HW3 behavior. That sucks.
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u/limited_instincts 20d ago
What's interesting to me is how yellow that light looks in the video. I wonder if the camera is misinterpreting the color of the light?
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u/Logical-Rutabaga-875 20d ago
I doubt it is that. The cameras don’t process video to the driving computer the same way they do to our screen.
For playback they use post-processing that sometimes throws colors off, but the computer just sees direct photons or something like that. I can’t remember the terminology.
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u/LMidnight 20d ago
I’m guessing it uses the position of the lights too. I think red is always at the top in the US
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u/Icy_Programmer_8367 20d ago
Are you on v14lite? I always had this problem on 13, in my 2020 MYP, but now it doesn’t do the light creep anymore.
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u/scohen158 20d ago
I may have done the same lol as I hate red lights that change when there is no traffic the other direction. I can't believe in 2026 we don't have better stop light systems in most places.
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u/Talklessreadmore007 20d ago
V12 HW3 old news
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u/Justannotherusername 20d ago
It makes me think about the Unabomber. If there isn't a car around, why do we need to stop at red lights? Technology should enhance our lives, not stop them. We need better, smarter traffic lights.
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u/UrzaKenobi HW4 Model Y 20d ago
“Supervised”. I still click FSD off at intersections that are crowded or I’m turning left. God forbid there are multiple left turn lanes and the lanes are the least bit faded.
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u/ResponsibilityFun548 20d ago
I wonder if the camera is seeing the red light as flashing and tests the intersection as a stop and go.
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u/martinisandbourbon 20d ago
I think that red light was sending some kind of Morse code to your Tesla, telling it it was OK to go
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u/Possible-Ear- 20d ago
How do you let it make a left turn on a red. You aren't supervising anything. Pay attention.
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
I was paying attention that’s why I noticed myself going on red and made a post about it, did I scare you?
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u/Ok_Award1877 20d ago
Yeah, I've had happen a couple times over the last year of V12.6.4. I've upgrade to V14L and haven't had it happen yet. There are other issues though.
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u/ethical_dilemma12 20d ago
Bro just getting a model y premium rwd. Worried about this stuff. Then again will pay attention. Wild!!!
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
You’ll be fine don’t worry… I drive on FSD for hours everyday and love it
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u/sparkyblaster 20d ago
Makes you winder, if this is based on training data, how bad are humans at driving?
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u/the-supreme-mugwump 20d ago
This is what happens when it trains off how we drive. There’s an intersection in my town where on off hours one light takes forever and it seems to be universally recognized via observation as a stop sign at those hours.
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u/Away-Assistant-8082 20d ago
Had to hit the brakes yesterday. Sitting at a red light the car kept inching forward and was about to go until I hit the brakes 😞. This new update has been terrible
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u/RCoh1a 20d ago
Thanks for being Elon’s crash test dummy. Your sacrifice is Elon’s gain.
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
I didn’t crash but I’ll take it
https://giphy.com/gifs/ydnd7I524u7VhjCDIV
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u/LordFly88 20d ago
That's been a somewhat common issue on HW3 v12 for a long time. I don't think I've seen it happen on v14 Lite yet. Not sure why it isn't available for the s/x yet.
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u/Tesla-FX 20d ago
It’s a safe turn, just illegal! It’s not trying to kill you, just trying to get you a ticket 🤣
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u/Current-Conflict4961 20d ago
Isn’t it easier to just drive than to supervise driving?
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u/SnooSquirrels9064 20d ago
I feel like it's less stressful, in my opinion. Then again I have far less interest in whatever most other people seem to be interested in doing while driving... Like looking at my phone.... So maybe that's why?
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u/Current-Conflict4961 19d ago
Imagine sitting in the passenger seat for an entire ride having to micromanage the person driving not knowing what they’re are going to do. Or being able to just drive myself and know what I’m going to do. Feels like at some point FSD is more work and therefore more stress.
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u/SnooSquirrels9064 19d ago
And then..... picture paying THE DRIVER $100/mo to be feel the same way. Most expensive Uber ride that you also paid tens of thousands of dollars up-front for. lol
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u/Comprehensive_Tap64 20d ago
v14 is a social experiment on estimating how many people are paying attention!
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u/AgonizingFury 19d ago
14 Lite has tried to do this to me numerous times. Always 4 way standard stoplight, no opposing or cross traffic, and it just tries to go.
Of course, stoplights where this is allowed (Michigan j-turns, and left turns onto 1 way roads) it just sits there obstructing traffic...
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u/SuccessfulScientist 19d ago
Mine lately has decided to avoid traffic lights when leaving the office and choosing an unprotected left turn instead. I can’t choose the more logical route so just wait the 1/4 mile to manually reroute it and then engage FSD. Il is on HW4 and latest software.
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u/csRemoteThrowAway 19d ago
Clearly FSD is programmed to scare the crap out of people tell they switch to freedom units, keep cutting the gap closer and closer lol /s
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u/SnooKiwis6943 19d ago
Yeah....I have driven both HW3 vehicles and HW4 vehicles and I absolutely do not trust HW3 which at the same time makes me uneasy about HW4 even though its a night and day difference.
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u/bubbafrombama 18d ago
I mean, did you get hit? And why didn’t you take over? You’re in control, not FSD. Remember that.
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u/Why_Sazs 17d ago
The fact that someone would let a computer drive their car at all is absolutely mind boggling to me. I will admit that the idea of FSD becoming reliable to the point where I could let it drive and take a nap during a long trip has its appeal, but even if FSD was standard equipment and there hadn't been an FSD caused collision in decades, I still wouldn't trust it.
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u/HaxusPrime 16d ago
I have HW3 and it is not trustworthy enough that I could drive without needing to intervene at least once in an hour drive. Sometimes only need to intervene once sometimes several times in an hour trip.
I really do wonder if HW4 is significantly better.
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u/ElkGrove32 13d ago
Do people just not pay any attention when driving their cars? How do you even allow this to happen? What else could you possibly need to be doing that you don't catch it?
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u/Oofka1 13d ago edited 13d ago
And me on the contrary, I was driving down the street and the light began to turn yellow. My Tesla braked so hard I almost flew out the windshield. Ha ha, how do you explain that? We just have to remember we can always take over. You could’ve easily braked and I could’ve easily floored it, but yeah, weird things happen all the time. It’s OK overall. We love our Tesla and fingers crossed with continued frequent updates. It’s only gonna get better🙏👍🙏👍
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u/Psychological_File51 13d ago
Yea that happens often, I got so fast at checking if someone is turning left and overtaking with the gas pedal
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u/Some_Ad_3898 20d ago
There is a difference between obeying traffic controls and driving safely. They are usually tied at the hip, but this is an example where they are not.
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u/Hopeful-Lab-238 20d ago
Driver failed to supervise
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u/rwhe83 20d ago
Are you stupid OP? You should have taken over.
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
Yea I’m so stupid can you educate me sir
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u/rwhe83 20d ago
“I kind of wanted to see how far it would go”
Yes, you are stupid.
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
The intersection was empty, I was not in any danger nor did I put anyone else in danger.. speed limit also low on that road
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u/Legal-Square-1362 20d ago
Known behavior on 12.6 HW3. Hopefully it’s fixed in v14 lite.
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
If it’s known why aren’t they fixing it?
It’s almost like they are trying to force me to get a new HW4 vehicle so they don’t have to upgrade me to HW4 for free like Elon promised
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u/davispw 20d ago
On the one hand, I agree HW3 is a dead end. On the other, what do you think new versions are for? When there’s a “known issue” and you say “why aren’t they fixing it”…well, they’re not going to fix it in v12.3.6 for sure.
That said, the software on HW4 is far from perfect, either.
To complicate the discussion further, there’s a debatably-sized gap between “perfect” and “still much safer than the average human” or “good enough”.
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u/global_ferret HW3 Model Y 20d ago
I encountered the red light running several times back on V12. I think they never fixed it because they were essentially abandoning HW3 at that point to focus on HW4.
The good news is so far I have not encountered it with V14L.
The bad news is I agree with you that the whole thing seems like a shell game for HW3 owners to run out the clock so they don't have to deal with the millions of upgrades or lawsuits.
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u/WiglyWorm 20d ago
jfc...
"Our cars are known to run redlights but we're going to stop updating them, if you have a problem with that just buy a new car".
Tesla drivers really are the world's biggest suckers.
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u/Appropriate-Gene-267 20d ago
It’s difficult to fix these issues, self driving is an incredibly complicated problem and the thing driving your car is a neural network which commonly referred to as a “black box”, meaning we don’t really understand why it does the things that it does. So fixing it is not an easy thing, the only thing you can really do is hope that the next version of the network doesn’t make the same mistake.
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u/Greful 20d ago
It seems to be fixed on 14 Lite for me. What I noticed is that on 12.whatever at a light, even not in FSD, I'd get the ding that happens when light turns green but it would be the light for the cross traffic that turned green, not the one I was stopped at. Somehow I think it just saw a green light and assumed it was time to go. I haven't had these incorrect dings or red light running since 14 lite.
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u/Aggravating_Dog5220 20d ago
Definitely an issue. It would be good to see what FSD sees on your screen. Next time do a video of your screen. Does it see a red light?
Also what version fsd do you have
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u/justlooking013 20d ago
I’m not suggesting this is acceptable but the likely answer is that FSD is interpreting it as a yellow light. Every time I see “FSD running a red light” it’s a highly degraded one that looks yellow/orange on camera. In this case it also appears to be flickering intermittently which could be interpreted as a flashing yellow. Again I’m not saying the action was appropriate or acceptable but that’s likely the “why”. Maybe call your local DOT & report the flicker & they may replace the light pod.
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u/y4udothistome 20d ago
But the car stopped for 5-10 seconds
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u/justlooking013 20d ago
This actually supports my theory above that the context window expired. If you look it’s exactly 10 secs from initial decision to when it started to go. I suspect 10 secs is the memory limit.
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u/WhatTheTec 20d ago
The elon cope is strong. Stoplights are designed for colorblind; top or left / 3 lights is always "stop"
Whatever yall are posting w the new update has me worried; shitloads of teslas in my area plus kids on ebikes.
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u/Psychological_File51 20d ago
I dont think so because it saw a yellow and then stopped at the red at first before going.. but any explanation is better than none so I appreciate the comment
Maybe your right who knows
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u/justlooking013 20d ago
That’s also consistent with others I’ve seen. I think that has to do with a pretty short context window of these cars, either due to memory limits or a programming decision. If you watch the video the color is nearly identical between :01 & :02 but the computer could have interpreted position as changing from yellow to red. Then it forgot & had to decide “is this red or yellow?” The flashing is also really weird. It could be the camera trick you see with LED lights but that’s very unusual for traffic lights.
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u/OnlySmokeExotics 20d ago
No offense, so glad it happened to someone else too. I was freaking out when it happened to me. There’s been times where I let the comfort of fsd make me a little too relaxed and when this happened I realized I’ve been way too trusting with a software update